I am having a problem and want advice.

I am having a problem with money management. I am playing either ring game, either NL or limit. My problem is more with limit. I am continuely getting up a large amount and then do not quit and slowly it goes back down again. My play is not changing, it is the cards go cold or a bad beat or two. Should I set amount if I get to that I quit or after a new high set a limit I will go down to then quit? This goes against my poker theory of if you are good you shoud be able to win consistently. It has been a real problem lately. Any ideas? What do you all do?

I heard even grinders in las vegas have their own "limit" for the day and

call it quits once they make that much, or if they lose a certain amount

for their "loss limit"

so give the limithing a shot and if it works then keep it up.

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Its very frustrating when you increase your buy in by 50%, to lose it slowly over the nexyt hour. As long as you aren't playing looser due to winning I wouldn't worry about it.

Remember you are only going to beat Limit for a few BBs per hour, so even if you left 100BBs up the next time you play you are due to lose a large % of that. If you could beat limit for >>10BBs an hour (1table) you should be playing 20/40.

SC, do you use poker tracker ? if not DL the trial and import your last session in to it.

Thanks for the advice Toasty. I do have pokertracker and have about 10,000 hands in it as of now. Sorry again about yesterday. I think I will actually make a top limit where I will stop, but I think I will just change tables if I want to continue playing or change games such as limit to NL or SnG's. It seems that the run of good cards can only last a certain amount of time on one table.

Per the message I sent you:

o Read Abdul for pre-flop openers.
o Stop playing King-nothing offsuit from your small blind with limpers in front.
o Move to the party .5/1 game. Start tight, then start mixing in some Izmet style plays. You're probably not beating the rake in the game you're playing now.
o Read the 2+2 micro and small stakes forums.

Thought about this a little more and another thing you have to watch is that you can sit down at a table full of bad players and end up at a table full of good players. As people join and leave, you have to continually evaluate whether its worth staying or going. Also be careful if you join one table with a maniac and another one joins. One maniac is great but two or three will send your variance through the roof. You are either going to win a lot or lose a lot, I'm leaving these tables these days as I'm trying to reduce my variance after having those bad down swings last week.

Another trick you can do is to leave the tables (note there name first) take a 10 min break and then rejoin. This way you can re-start from the buy-in but still experiance the soft table you were at before, if the same players have remained that is (if its not available stick your name down and wait).

I think your original post was on the right track. You are playing for fun, not to pay the mortgage, so set limits to avoid aggravating yourself. If you are winning the general rule is to keep playing so long as you have a positive expectation. If you lose a big pot cash the heck out and go play a round of golf with a big smile knowing that you just had a positive session.

You need to set a time or loss limit. If you say I'm playing for 2 hours or 4 hours and walking away you will be much happier. Alternatively, you say i'm buying in for $100 bucks and when that is gone so am I.

I will usually play a 2-3 hour session with a $50 loss limit. If I lose the $50 in 20 minutes I walk away. I also play a SNG and ring game at the same time. The tournaments help with my time management. If you play 2 tournaments to the money it will be more or less 2 hours. If things are going well one session will yield 2 money finishes in the tournaments and I will double or triple up in he ring game. Worst case scenario, I lose $22 on tournaments and my buy in on the cash game (which has never happened by the way).

The other thing is, you said your game does not change but be careful. When I started out I noticed that there is a big trap to winning big in that you often sub-consciously (sp?) chase more, play hands out of position and give away your profits. I did it and I am careful to watch out for it now.

Originally Posted by SteveO

Alternatively, you say i'm buying in for $100 bucks and when that is gone so am I.

Sounds a little on the negative side for me. How about . . .

"I'm sitting down with $100 bucks and once i've doubled it I'm done."

On a serious note I think it can be helpful to introduce strange rules if you are running bad, you can always scrap them once you are back to the norm.

I find a helpful trick I use to stop downswings is to join a table and leave as soon as I make a profit, even if its $5. I'll do this around 7-8 times and before I realise I'm up 40 BBs and my session has started great, I'll then increase the win needed to somewhere between 5-10 BBs.

Generally though, if a table is good I'll stay as long as I feel its good, I find it harder to leave a table when I'm down opposed to leaving a table when I'm up. (I'm sure this should be the other way around)

Originally Posted by Toasty

I find it harder to leave a table when I'm down opposed to leaving a table when I'm up. (I'm sure this should be the other way around)

No, Toasty, you're right on the money here. It is definitely harder to leave a table when you are down as opposed to walking away when you're ahead.

When you're down you keep thinking to yourself, "Alright, I am gonna keep playing here until I get back to even. I know I am playing well and all I need is a couple of good hands and I'll be back to even and then I can live with the bad beats/bad cards that I've been getting all day."

I know that I, for one, have caught myself thinking this way on a number of occasions. This was a huge leak in my bankroll. I'm becoming more and more aware of it now though and it is becoming easier for me to walk away realizing that it is just not happening for me at that particular session and tomorrow is another day. Once I was able to start doing this my downward swings were definitely lessened. It's still tough to do from time to time but it's getting easier.

On the other hand, I have no problem getting up from a table when I'm up. I still fight with myself on those occasions where my session is running extremely hot because all I see is dollar signs in those instances. But, I know that I am better off leaving while I am up than staying around and watching my winnings slowly dwinde down over the course of the next hour becuase I can't catch any cards now or I've taken a bad beat or two or I realize that I am now loosening up a little too much because I am ahead for the session.

Nice toasty. Cracked a needed laugh from me.

Yeah, I agree with playing a game you are comfortable with. Once you get enough hours in, you will get an intelligent idea of your rate.

If it is good, Good! iF it is not where you want it, study some more, and perhaps move down limits.

If you are struggling on when you should leave, leave when things have gone sour.

Cardplayer had an article about playing your A-game all the time (Caffone?), it was a good read. I always try to leave when I know I'm not playing my best game. Now, if there are bunches of lousy players in my game,a nd im not playing my best I will still stick around.

So, my advice is play when you are at your best. Quitting when you double your buyin (assuming you buy in at or around the max) is great as well. Try not to look at your losses in the game as "I gotta make those up, NOW" Poker isn't going away tomarrow, and mabye your best game isn't today!


Good luck at the tables!!!!!

Originally Posted by Toasty

I find a helpful trick I use to stop downswings is to join a table and leave as soon as I make a profit, even if its $5. I'll do this around 7-8 times and before I realise I'm up 40 BBs and my session has started great, I'll then increase the win needed to somewhere between 5-10 BBs.

i do this as well, and it's usually more profitable (at least for me). my theory on why this works - when you go to a new table, you're on your guard, probably playing cautious and smart because you don't yet have a take on the other players.

also, if start 3-4xbb preflop raising on most of the hands you want to play (in other words, very little limping), then playing hard or getting out on the flop, you get some instant respect. about the time the other players feel you're pushing them around and start to leave the table, it's time for you to move on.

on the road again...

I agree Fishman, i've noticed I concentrate harder on a new table, asking the usualy questions ("Has that dude seen every flop so far ?"). Also an important thing that a lot of people miss is that no one has a read on you! Once they realise I'm playing big cards they soon start moving out of the way when the Aces flop, this is sometimes a bonus, sometimes hurtful. If its hurting me I'll switch gears and play a little looser until i lose some respect.

I semi Bluff a lot on the flop and turn so its usually in my interest to be seen as a nuts player << haha true in real life too

Like others have said, it sounds like variance and table selection. Also, be sure you're not loosening up as your stack grows. Playing too loose will fritter away your chips faster than anything. Also, for how long are you playing? Does your concentration dwindle over a period of time? Did you sleep enough the night before? Are you eating right to keep your energy levels up? Drinking alcohol?

I'm also with the others in that you should consider setting some sort of +-BB limit or some time limit. For me, I've started setting a time limit when I play (only playing live ring games at the moment). When I hit that limit I ask myself if I'm playing well or poorly and if the conditions warrant me getting up and leaving. This helps me prevent going on tilt and to deal with the variance that comes about because I'm playing above my bankroll.