[5NL] 77 UTG line check.

i'd be C/Ring this flop all day when we are this deep. we need to start getting stacks into the pot with a hand this strong. give him the chance to make mistakes w/QQ+.

i'd prefer to lead this turn card than C/R as played

i also think you are pretty much owning yourself shoving this river.

Originally Posted by rpm

i'd be C/Ring this flop all day when we are this deep. we need to start getting stacks into the pot with a hand this strong. give him the chance to make mistakes w/QQ+.

i'd prefer to lead this turn card than C/R as played

i also think you are pretty much owning yourself shoving this river.

That's interesting. Basically, you're saying I couldn't have played this hand any worse.

That's a fairly dry flop in a 3bet pot. Yeah overpairs would continue, but not much else. If he was cbetting with a marginal hand/air I want him to do it again on the turn. If he does have the overpair, he will fire again on most turns anyway and I can c/r then setting up a river shove.

Why is that such bad logic?

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

That's a fairly dry flop in a 3bet pot. Yeah overpairs would continue, but not much else. If he was cbetting with a marginal hand/air I want him to do it again on the turn. If he does have the overpair, he will fire again on most turns anyway and I can c/r then setting up a river shove.

Why is that such bad logic?

if you think villain is the type to double barrel bluff too much then i like your flop C/C for sure, but we don't know that villain is capable of firing more than one barrel as a bluff. also, i think that these kind of board textures are very rarely barreled as a bluff, and i suspect double-barrel bluffing is pretty damn rare at these stakes to begin with.

it's true that overpairs will very likely fire again, but i just think they are more likely to commit the full ~200bb if we go C/R, bet, shove than if we go C/C, C/R, shove. i just feel like the second line (C/Ring turn instead of flop) is going to be perceived (and probably rightly so, do you ever C/R bluff turns?) as being far stronger.

Originally Posted by rpm

if you think villain is the type to double barrel bluff too much then i like your flop C/C for sure, but we don't know that villain is capable of firing more than one barrel as a bluff. also, i think that these kind of board textures are very rarely barreled as a bluff, and i suspect double-barrel bluffing is pretty damn rare at these stakes to begin with. - I agree with the double barrel bluffing, which is why I chose to c/r the turn as I thought he was showing strength.

I just thought that if I c/r the flop I might miss out on later value if he was cbetting with air.

it's true that overpairs will very likely fire again, but i just think they are more likely to commit the full ~200bb if we go C/R, bet, shove than if we go C/C, C/R, shove. i just feel like the second line (C/Ring turn instead of flop) is going to be perceived (and probably rightly so, do you ever C/R bluff turns?) as being far stronger.

Completely agree, hadn't really thought of how my line looks to villain. That does look incredibly strong.

You're right as well, I very rarely c/r the turn as a bluff. Points taken.

i'll add a bit more of my rationale to this post for clarification to/criticism by cobra.

Originally Posted by rpm

i'd be C/Ring this flop all day when we are this deep. we need to start getting stacks into the pot with a hand this strong. give him the chance to make mistakes w/QQ+.

think i've covered in above post why i like to C/R flop. cliffs: we start building a pot to win stacks, we have more bluffs in our range bombing now vs doing it on turn, and i don't expect many opponents to give us another bet with air on the turn anyway

i'd prefer to lead this turn card than C/R as played

not actually so sure about this one now because as played we basically have to C/R now or OTR if we want to get stacks in. my original rationale was that we get reasonable value from villain's calling range and villain will probably actually only bet a pretty strong range and check beck a lot of hands with reasonable equity vs us (with so much straight potential at this point in the hand). i think i still prefer to lead this card than check, but i'm not so sure. wish we'd C/R'd flop

i also think you are pretty much owning yourself shoving this river.

i just cant see villain making a 100+bb calldown with any worse hands now that this board is so damn scary for anything but straights. we seem to be turning our hand into a bluff. Seems like we're making worse fold and putting 120bb on a plate for him the times he's backed into a straight .