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Nice post Aok

In a big multiway pot being on the right of the preflop raiser is often a better position than being on the button.

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Originally Posted by aokrongly

Originally Posted by arkana

In a big multiway pot being on the right of the preflop raiser is often a better position than being on the button.

how so?

It's a matter or relative vs. absolute position. Absolute position is in relation to the button and relative position is in relationship to the likely bettor. Since a pre-flop raiser typically initiates the action again on the flop, the closer you are to their right the more of an advantage you have because you'd have final action after they bet.

I'd recommend reading Sklansky's No Limit Hold'Em Theory and Practice. He does a good job of explaining the importance of position in general and the distinction between absolute and relative position.

If you assume the preflop raiser is going to bet again, and you have an OESD, flush draw, or both. You can see how many people will call his bet, thus giving you odds to call.

Originally Posted by aokrongly

Originally Posted by arkana

In a big multiway pot being on the right of the preflop raiser is often a better position than being on the button.

how so?

Because very often it will be checked to the preflop raiser and you get to see what the whole field does after his bet before you have to act.

A common example is where you limp with a small pocket pair and the person on your left makes a big raise which normally means a big pair. You and a few others call. You hit your set on the flop (lets say its lower than his pair but draw heavy), you and the others that act first check it to him and he (obviously) bets. Now if you were on his left you would be forced to reveal the strength of your hand before the rest of the field acts (unless you want to make a risky slowplay) but because you are on his right the rest of the field has to act before you and very often there will be a few callers and the pot will be much bigger by the time it gets back to you and you can put in a nice fat raise.

oh my god

post in a beginner's forum that you think position is over-rated, brilliant.
/sarcasm

Also, don't forget about other advantages, such as ability to take a free card.

Originally Posted by aokrongly

Why do some people overvalue position? Players who like to make moves at pots after the flop will play all sorts of cards on the button. They figure if everyone shows weakness and they are the last to act, _ they can show strength and take the pot down. This is a reasonable way to think if you play that sort of game. The Peformance Poker example game discounts the value of position because you are playing a huge starting card advantage.

'splain please. Seems to me that if your starting hand range is generally perceived as uber-tight, in position you should be able to steal more with practically any two, as you are much less likely to be called. Discounting playing "that sort of game" is leaving a lot of small pots on the table.

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Yeah, maybe in more advanced play...but 10/25nl you dont have to worry about most players regarding your playing style in terms of lagg vs tagg and all that jazz.

Originally Posted by aokrongly

good point as long as the players on your table are willing to fold postflop. If, it's still a "best card" situation where you're making huge pots with your made hands and the best cards at the river are constently winning (as opposed to hands being folded before you get to the showdown).

PokerTracker shows that a little less than half of the hands I win go to showdown. This stat is fairly consistent regardless of stakes (10NL, 25NL, 50NL, 100Nl & 200NL). I'd be interested to know how this compares to the stats of someone playing 19 hands - someone running PT, obv. (hint hint, aok).

I think that posting this in a beginners forum is idiotic

If you assume the preflop raiser is going to bet again, and you have an OESD, flush draw, or both. You can see how many people will call his bet, thus giving you odds to RAISE!.

I wont write FYP, ill just put imo