100nl 15k checkup.

I have logged about 16k hands of 100nl full ring on party. The first 10k of this is 5 tabling, and the last 5k is 8 tabling. I don't think my play suffered at all in the transition so it probably makes little difference.





My aggression factors are as follows:

Pre-flop--------------------- 1.27
Flop-------------------------- 5.02
Turn------------------------ 2.74
River------------------------ 2.89
Total (including pf)---- 1.98
Total (no pf)---------------3.87

Here are my thoughts.

- Too tight maybe? I could probably stand to play a few more hands from the button and cutoff. Should I try to nudge my vpip to around 16-17?

- I think my PFR stat is on the money.

- I like how sequential my winnings break down according to position. Am I losing too much from the blinds? (completing from sb too much)

- I like my Won$@SD stat. I think its just just high enough that I am not weak tight and just low enough that I am not a calling station (along with the WentToSD stat).

- Am I too aggressive on the flop? I'd like to see other fullringers flop aggr. numbers.

Thats all I can think of at the moment. Thanks for your help.

You are very aggressive post flop which is usually a good thing as long as it doesn't turn into chip spewing. Keep playing your style and if you continue to do as well as you have so far there is no reason to fix anything, just to get different PT stats. Better to concentrate on hand analyses.

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

You are very aggressive post flop which is usually a good thing as long as it doesn't turn into chip spewing. Keep playing your style and if you continue to do as well as you have so far there is no reason to fix anything, just to get different PT stats. Better to concentrate on hand analyses.

agreed

I think the point you make renton however about getting in a few more pots in position is worth the effort.

nice renton

don't change anything bro. i would say you are efficiently crushing the game. keep grinding and building that roll. must have been following some of my advice ; )

Renton, judging by your pt stats, some of that money you won could be counterfeit poker money. I know it's hard to believe but it has been happening to more and more honest players. In order to make sure you're not a victim of this crime, send all those winnings to bigred07 on pstars and I will verify that it is indeed legit poker money. I have a special machine.

i like ur winrate with AK by the way. we both agreed on the same way to play it preflop in another thread and this proves it is the right way =)

I like your VPIP....And looser than that and you start playing with hands that are -EV IMO. Our stats are similar except your PF raise is about 1.5% higher. What types of hands are you raising with in MP? I think I work on my game there.

Originally Posted by bigred

Renton, judging by your pt stats, some of that money you won could be counterfeit poker money. I know it's hard to believe but it has been happening to more and more honest players. In order to make sure you're not a victim of this crime, send all those winnings to bigred07 on pstars and I will verify that it is indeed legit poker money. I have a special machine.

Lol. Post of the week at least.

Originally Posted by Lodogg

I like your VPIP....And looser than that and you start playing with hands that are -EV IMO. Our stats are similar except your PF raise is about 1.5% higher. What types of hands are you raising with in MP? I think I work on my game there.

I am probably raising more junk on the button than you are.

Also I raise small pairs (44-77) in EP a very large percentage of the time. I find this gets me paid off tremendously easier when I hit sets.

I have been following your progress Renton. I find myself in a very similar situtation to yours. I, however, have not yet moved you to 100NL. I will be doing so this week though.

How similar are these stats to those of when you were playing 50NL?

For game selection Party is good, but what about all the players? Good mixture of fish at 100NL? I can't stand Party's software, but I'm getting sick of whoring low traffic sites that are rock gardens.

I would say that the 100nl full ring field at party consists of:

40% Tight-Passive fish (bluff)
40% Loose-Passive fish (value bet)
20% sharks (as good or better than you or I)

Only difference in my stats from 50nl, is that I am alot more aggressive in position, and I raise small pairs in almost any position. I don't think it pays to be aggressive in position in 50nl and under, because fish don't respect position in any way, and you get yourself into expensive bluff situations. Also it doesn't pay to raise pairs at lower stakes because the misdirection it affords when you hit a set isn't necessary (they will pay you off with top pair poor kicker every time anyway).

Other than that, nope. I just do a little more stealing.

What times of day do you generally play?

american evenings

Unless I run awfully, I can almost assuredly have a +350bb session on a friday night.

Friday nights on party are ridonkulous.

play more hands in position

I am currently playin around 20% of hands in position, should I be playing more like 30%?

not sure of numbers, really depends on table. if there are a few limpers and you have button, T8o is worth limping. i just know from looking at it that 14% vpip is too tight and your winrate could be higher.

i play ANY hand with potential on the button if there are more than one limper.

don't necessarily have to raise if the hand is marginal but seeing the flop with a limp will pay off in the long run.

If there are a couple of limpers and I have button, I usually play something like (other than hands I'd play in any other position),

45s+, 78o+, A2s+, A8o+, KTo, K8s+, QT+, 46s+, 79+, J8

about half the time to a mix of 80% calls, 20% raises to steal.


I don't think I am doing this enough though. I probably should play this range every time I have button or cutoff.

Hey Renton,
Run a summary search in PT and you will find out that the most profitable players have a VPIP of around 15%. You are doing fine bro. It is a bell shaped curve. Players between 15%-20% VPIP are still profitable, but just not as much as 13-15%. Players above 20% really start dropping off. Pokeroom.com has a great section on expected value for each hand based on both position and # of players at the table. They also have a huge sample size. Check it out. You will see that only about 18-19% of all hands have a +EV. Cut that down with hands you are going to fold when someone raises and there you have your 13-15% VPIP. The counter argument is that playing slightly -EV hands is deceptive and will get your +EV hands more paid off, but I am more in support of playing hands that are proven to be +EV.

Renton = my hero

Dont lie, thats not a checkup, thats a well concealed (and deserved) pat on the back


nice stats, well done!

Originally Posted by Lodogg

Hey Renton,
Run a summary search in PT and you will find out that the most profitable players have a VPIP of around 15%. You are doing fine bro. It is a bell shaped curve. Players between 15%-20% VPIP are still profitable, but just not as much as 13-15%. Players above 20% really start dropping off. Pokeroom.com has a great section on expected value for each hand based on both position and # of players at the table. They also have a huge sample size. Check it out. You will see that only about 18-19% of all hands have a +EV. Cut that down with hands you are going to fold when someone raises and there you have your 13-15% VPIP. The counter argument is that playing slightly -EV hands is deceptive and will get your +EV hands more paid off, but I am more in support of playing hands that are proven to be +EV.

I would argue that is a very ignorant view of poker.

Originally Posted by bigred

Originally Posted by Lodogg

Hey Renton,
Run a summary search in PT and you will find out that the most profitable players have a VPIP of around 15%. You are doing fine bro. It is a bell shaped curve. Players between 15%-20% VPIP are still profitable, but just not as much as 13-15%. Players above 20% really start dropping off. Pokeroom.com has a great section on expected value for each hand based on both position and # of players at the table. They also have a huge sample size. Check it out. You will see that only about 18-19% of all hands have a +EV. Cut that down with hands you are going to fold when someone raises and there you have your 13-15% VPIP. The counter argument is that playing slightly -EV hands is deceptive and will get your +EV hands more paid off, but I am more in support of playing hands that are proven to be +EV.

I would argue that is a very ignorant view of poker.

My win rate suggest otherwise

20/10 is the most +ev way to play if you are good at postflop. That is what I have been hearing.

I think you are a bit too aggro on the flop. I have recently got my flop aggression factor down from 3.5 to 3 over my last 10k hands, and I am still, I believe, losing out on value while also making too many continuation bets (which then get called).

I also think you are playing too sloppily from the blinds - you're slightly worse off than I think you should expect to be. I see you're only raising half as many hands in the blinds as your average PF raises, and as a result you're winning a lot less without seeing a showdown.

But, you know, small things - the stats look great. GG.

Originally Posted by Lodogg

Hey Renton,
Run a summary search in PT and you will find out that the most profitable players have a VPIP of around 15%. You are doing fine bro. It is a bell shaped curve. Players between 15%-20% VPIP are still profitable, but just not as much as 13-15%. Players above 20% really start dropping off. Pokeroom.com has a great section on expected value for each hand based on both position and # of players at the table. They also have a huge sample size. Check it out. You will see that only about 18-19% of all hands have a +EV. Cut that down with hands you are going to fold when someone raises and there you have your 13-15% VPIP. The counter argument is that playing slightly -EV hands is deceptive and will get your +EV hands more paid off, but I am more in support of playing hands that are proven to be +EV.

you are wrong and the best players are not vpip < 15

Originally Posted by gabe

you are wrong and the best players are not vpip < 15

No but those guys running 22-27 % VPIP aren't running 8 tables either.

It depends on what his goal is.

If he's trying to grind out $$$ day in day out for the next 100k hands, then I would continue to play the way you do. 8 tables @ 15% vpip with a killer hourly win rate.

But if your looking to move up and play the bigger games then your going ot have to open up and learn to play more marginal situations. Beyond the $200 NL game I doubt your going to get paid off like you do at the $100 NL.

Playing more hands preflop will increase the number of decisions post flop, so you'll probably have to reduce the number of tables you play in order to keep better reads on your opponents and exploit them a bit more, or to avoid being exploited. Your hourly win rate will suffer, but the end result is a better game based on more situational play.
I'm stating the obvious here.


OK thats a LHE players answer in a NL forum, how'd I do

Originally Posted by mike4066

Originally Posted by gabe

you are wrong and the best players are not vpip < 15

No but those guys running 22-27 % VPIP aren't running 8 tables either.

If I am not mistaken, gabe plays fairly loose and he runs 9 tables of 6 max, the rough equivalent of 13 tables of full ring.

Originally Posted by Lodogg

Hey Renton,
Run a summary search in PT and you will find out that the most profitable players have a VPIP of around 15%. You are doing fine bro. It is a bell shaped curve. Players between 15%-20% VPIP are still profitable, but just not as much as 13-15%. Players above 20% really start dropping off. Pokeroom.com has a great section on expected value for each hand based on both position and # of players at the table. They also have a huge sample size. Check it out. You will see that only about 18-19% of all hands have a +EV. Cut that down with hands you are going to fold when someone raises and there you have your 13-15% VPIP. The counter argument is that playing slightly -EV hands is deceptive and will get your +EV hands more paid off, but I am more in support of playing hands that are proven to be +EV.

The MAJOR flaw in their calcuations is that it includes hands form horrible players. So while providing a good average of every single player it doesn't weight for good player or bad players. There are more bad players than good players, so the bad players will definatly skew stats towards the easily played hands.

If one person can play 25% VPIP profitably, and 10 people play 15% VPIP Profitably, does that mean that 16% VPIP is the optimal strategy?

It will show the 16% VPIP as the average money making hands, but only becuase the majority of people can't play the other 6-9% well enough to make them profitable in the right situations.

Again a LHE player lost in the wrong forum.

Originally Posted by Renton

If I am not mistaken, gabe plays fairly loose and he runs 9 tables of 6 max, the rough equivalent of 13 tables of full ring.

Yes, but Gabe isn't human either.

Originally Posted by mike4066

Again a LHE player lost in the wrong forum.

Ya, go back to your 1.75BB/100 shenanigans.

Originally Posted by mike4066

Originally Posted by gabe

you are wrong and the best players are not vpip < 15

No but those guys running 22-27 % VPIP aren't running 8 tables either.

It depends on what his goal is.

If he's trying to grind out $$$ day in day out for the next 100k hands, then I would continue to play the way you do. 8 tables @ 15% vpip with a killer hourly win rate.

But if your looking to move up and play the bigger games then your going ot have to open up and learn to play more marginal situations. Beyond the $200 NL game I doubt your going to get paid off like you do at the $100 NL.

Playing more hands preflop will increase the number of decisions post flop, so you'll probably have to reduce the number of tables you play in order to keep better reads on your opponents and exploit them a bit more, or to avoid being exploited. Your hourly win rate will suffer, but the end result is a better game based on more situational play.
I'm stating the obvious here.


OK thats a LHE players answer in a NL forum, how'd I do

i agree for the most part.

if you want to build a bankroll, play 15% on all the tables you can and pound fish when you hit your sets!

if you want to learn to play good poker and up your winrate, mix in some more hands. with practice, you can add some more tables and really become a money maker.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by mike4066

Again a LHE player lost in the wrong forum.

Ya, go back to your 1.75BB/100 shenanigans.

1.75/100
You insult me sir!

ok not really i suck I'll stop before this thread gets any further off topic.