2 Hands Bluffing BvB: Maniac, plain dumb or okay?

I've been thinking a lot about BvB lately and I'm beginning to think most villains and I are too nitty in BvB battles. I've also been thinking a lot about good boards and spots for bluffing in other positions, so I've been experimenting and would be grateful for your take on the following:

1) Villain's perceived range in the hand;
2) Your own continuing range in these spots, and;
3) Whether these bluffs are likely to be get through on the river

Hand 1: Villain is 65/6/0, AF=3.3 over 18 hands, donked 1/2 flops

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($3.85)
SB ($9.90)
Hero (BB) ($10.56)
UTG ($15.75)
MP ($10)
CO ($12.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 2
4 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.80) 7, 10, 5 (2 players)
SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.20, SB calls $0.80

Turn: ($3.20) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2

River: ($7.20) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6.96 (All-In)


Hand 2: Villain is 24/7/0, AF=0.3 over 29 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($3.22)
Hero (SB) ($10.24)
BB ($8)
UTG ($12.63)
MP ($9.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, 6
3 folds, Hero bets $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) 5, A, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, BB calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.20) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60

River: ($2.40) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40

again you must be playing a different game

Hand 1: The only street I like is the river. Pre-flop I think you picked a sub-optimal target for that play unless you want to play a big pot with J2o.
Hand 2: He's got a better hand than you when he calls pre-flop. I think you need to find the breaks by at least the turn. Probably even check the flop hoping to check this down or pick off a single bet.

You've given stats for villains, but don't seem to have considered what they mean, and how you should be trying to make your money.

Ok ill give it a go.

1st hand:
Range - A-x any SC any medium/low pair probably some high 1 gappers

Basically you have no idea and any flop could hit his hand. What you do know though is he just called. I don't like raising with air here because in most BvB battles if he limped it he's going to call your bet like 90+% of the time and if your going to bluff it will look much stronger after the flop. So, after the flop if he bets you raise and if he checks you bet. If that doesn't win you should be done with the hand or your just going to value town yourself.

Hand 2:
What FNord said. The open raise is fine, but when he calls your mostly behind. Now once the flop hits you can play it like you have A-K or A-Q but if that were the case I wouldn't be cbetting, I would try to induce a cbet by him so I would check my TPTK. He almost has to bet in position with that board and I can re-raise (in your case this would be a bluff with K-6s) but then your done with the hand. You either pick it up right there or c/f the rest of the way.

In both hands the raise post flop is way more effective. Most flops miss most hands so if your active post flop instead of pre your going to have more luck bluffing and your bluffs will be cheaper having not built the pot earlier. Also, try to avoid playing from the blinds period unless you have great cards or someone is just abusing the button. Bluff games in BvB battles where the ranges are wide are just spew.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

You've given stats for villains, but don't seem to have considered what they mean, and how you should be trying to make your money.

Pre-flop, my thoughts about both opponents were that I can bludgeon both of them post flop if need be (and within reason). You're right to a large extent however as I forgot this post flop and played these hands on timing tells. It was only after these hands played out that I thought I shouldn't play so much on "feel" and that ignoring the numbers is crazy.

LIke I said, I'm experimenting and I'm trying to stick to a consistent line when bluffing that makes sense (which I was hoping I'd receive more responses on). Fwiw, both of these bluffs got through - maybe most 10nlers don't put a triple barrel bluff in a villain's arsenal and don't showdown without 2pr+?

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: The only street I like is the river. Pre-flop I think you picked a sub-optimal target for that play unless you want to play a big pot with J2o.

Makes sense - what kinds of range would you make this play with? I only ask because I was watching Bikes' 50nl video the other day and he mentioned that you should raise almost any 2 in this spot when the sb completes.

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

I was watching Bikes' 50nl video the other day and he mentioned that you should raise almost any 2 in this spot when the sb completes.

Not with trash against an opponent who won't fold often enough. Keep the pot small with your J2o and value town him.

H1 - Very bad spew on flop/turn/river, you can raise whenever he completes pre as long as he's either limp/folding a lot or calling but then folding most flops. Don't try and bluff a station, just give up on the flop.

H2 - Barreling turn isn't great because we have equity and he's not folding A/J, maybe just c/f flop.

H1... exactly what hoopy said, only raise this if he's limp/folding or limp/calling and folding to cbets.

H2... well I'm cbetting ace high flops HU 100%. There's tons he folds. Shutting down on turn.