4nl- QJo completed SB multi-way

Originally Posted by supa

Never folding QJ in a limped pot.

Raise pre. Bet the turn.

Maybe it's a definition thing but I don't think the term donking applies here.

Why not? I doubt we are ahead of many ranges and we are in a horrible position. Are we happy if we hit a Q high flop? What if we hit a J? KQ/KJ could be out there in a limped pot. We are happy to raise pre/cbet the flop...then what?

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Why not? I doubt we are ahead of many ranges and we are in a horrible position. Are we happy if we hit a Q high flop? What if we hit a J? KQ/KJ could be out there in a limped pot. We are happy to raise pre/cbet the flop...then what?

Plug in your equity holding 72o in multi-handed pots against wide ranges, Cobra.
...
OK, so how bad can you possibly be from the SB?

Spoiler: Show

about 4% over all 5 board cards against 8 Villains playing ATC.

And the same scenario with your actual hand (QJo)?

Spoiler: Show

Come on man, do it yourself

Now: it's common to get odds up to 7:1 or 9:1 in limped pots from the SB

What odds do you need to nut-mine...?

Well, you can expect to flop 2 pair or better (which I'll call a nut hand for this discussion) with QJo about 5% of the time. This does NOT count when the flop comes AAQ, KKQ, AAJ or KKJ, but DOES count QTT and J88 type flops, as well as all QJx, AKT, KT9, and T98. Of course, QQQ, JJJ, QQJ, and QJJ are in there, but only comprise 0.1% of the flops.

With 5%, you need about 19:1 total equity.

You're getting 9:1 in this pot. that leaves (19 - 9 = ) 10*$0.02 = $0.20 more into a pot of $0.20. If you can't get this implied equity when you hit this flop with 2 pair or better, then you have fold equity that makes it even more profitable to widen your range SB.

Also, 6% of the time, you'll flop OESD (holding QJ or 54), sometimes with a pair to go with it.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Plug in your equity holding 72o in multi-handed pots against wide ranges, Cobra.
...
OK, so how bad can you possibly be from the SB?

Spoiler: Show

about 4% over all 5 board cards against 8 Villains playing ATC.

And the same scenario with your actual hand (QJo)?

Spoiler: Show

Come on man, do it yourself

Now: it's common to get odds up to 7:1 or 9:1 in limped pots from the SB

What odds do you need to nut-mine...?

Well, you can expect to flop 2 pair or better (which I'll call a nut hand for this discussion) with QJo about 5% of the time. This does NOT count when the flop comes AAQ, KKQ, AAJ or KKJ, but DOES count QTT and J88 type flops, as well as all QJx, AKT, KT9, and T98. Of course, QQQ, JJJ, QQJ, and QJJ are in there, but only comprise 0.1% of the flops.

With 5%, you need about 19:1 total equity.

You're getting 9:1 in this pot. that leaves (19 - 9 = ) 10*$0.02 = $0.20 more into a pot of $0.20. If you can't get this implied equity when you hit this flop with 2 pair or better, then you have fold equity that makes it even more profitable to widen your range SB.

Also, 6% of the time, you'll flop OESD (holding QJ or 54), sometimes with a pair to go with it.

OK, wow. You have literally just shown me something that I had never EVER thought of. I lose so much money from the blinds, which I know is because I hate limping, but this just made me look at it a little differently.

When I get hands like this dealt to me in the SB, in a limped pot, I just think of the chances of somebody limping in with a hand that dominates me ( as I pointed out in this post ) and I just end up folding.

I think this is gonna be the next part of my game I work on.

Quality post.