Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote Originally Posted by nickthefool
Both are folds, but betting river in hand 1 without a strong read at this level is horrible imho. The only hands you beat that villain can call with are played weirdly, and also require villain to put you on air (which is hard as you bet 3 streets).

Apart from that i think you played both hands fine though.
this is where i need the most work on my game currently. why is it so bad to bet the river for value? sure, he may have a J, or even QJ, but he may also have TT. imo, to think that other players will fold TT because i bet three streets is giving too much credit to them. i see much worse calling than this.

without a read, we assume villain is tightish/solid and give benefit of doubt when he "plays" us, but dont we also assume we bet until told not to? calling my turn bet isnt reason to check a river when checked to, imo. once the J pairs, i have any Q beat, and AK that could have been a chasing idiot. i guess thats why you check behind...to see.

ok, i think i got it...the only things that call are hands that beat us? nothing worse will call the river. and all i did was invite a c/r. got it.

sometimes i have to talk/type these things through to get them to stick.

cant believe i didnt see the check behind...still.

thanks for the help again.
In hand 1, consider what range of cards you represent preflop, then consider what hands will call a river bet after the turn and river card. Then decide if you should bet the river or check behind. If you had a Jack here it would be a much easier bet.