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Originally Posted by tugger
But I' m still not playing KT. Ha.
Then you are intentionally passing on clear +EV plays. And if this is the case, then I really should stop wasting my time responds to your threads. I have shown that against a percieving limping range KT has more equity than T6. And also stated that that's mere pot equity, and that KT will see far more favorable flops to bluff with, as well as allow villain to have more worse hands from which you can extra value from. But that reasoning has obviously failed to impress you.
Why would you knowingly take a 0EV play, when you could easily take a +EV line? It makes no sense.
I was just being (un)funny. Don't take me so seriously, I' m rarely serious.
I'll play KTs sometimes, just like I sometimes play K8s on the button. KTo can go without any fuss though. Same with AT, it's trash, unless it's suited and late pos, then it's marginal. Like I said earlier, I don't have a list of hands I will and won't play. Some hands are always played ( KK, AA), some always folded (83o, 93o), but most can be folded, called or raised, depending on position and action. Both KTs and T6s fall into the latter category, while KTo and T6o are folded the vast majority of the time, blinds being the only exceptions, and maybe button if everyone else folded.
Yes, you're right, KT has more equity than T6. But is KT a +ev hand? I think really I should be playing neither.
You seem to keep hinting that you don't have certain hands that you open from certain positions, aka a hand chart. Congratulations, it's not a big noteworthy story. It's how it should be. Hand charts are retarded, etc, etc, blah.
Congrats again (non-sarcastically this time) on knowing that position, stack sizes, villain tendencies, etc all determine whether a hand is playable or not. Seriously some people seem to not understand this at 2nl.
However, as bowlboy stated, you are probably just leveling yourself. It seems you've heard the term reverse implied odds somewhere, and that in that situation KTo (or whatever other broadway hand you hate) was described as being more likely dominated than a suited connector like T6s, or 98s, etc. And while that is likely true, it's not really going to apply here.
For one, villain limp/called. Villain's aren't likely to limp/call their strong hands. Most understand it's better to raise, or to at least limp/raise. So hands like TT+, AK, and usually KQ are not likely in his range (could be, but unlikely without reads). Instead, they are limp calling loads of mid-strength marginal hands, such as JT, Q9, K9, 66-99, etc. And it's pretty blatantly obvious that a hand such as KTo is going to perform better against this range than T6s. Even if there is a chance that he's limping some of his strong hands.
Also, as I said, your preflop pot equity isn't the only factor. If you see a flop like 953tt, and are considering bluff raising a cbet, which would you prefer: T6s (no flush draw) or KTo? Obviously KTo is going to have more equity against villain's continuing range, therefore your bluff raise doesn't need as much fold equity to be +EV, and therefore it's going to show a greater profit in the long run.
I cannot fathom why some microstakes players are always so strange when it comes to hand selection. I watch my dad play sometimes (25nl), and he wants to pass on raising hands like AT/KT/K9s/AJ when it's folded to him in the CO. And when I ask why, he just says it's too marginal. Which is wrong a few levels. One, there might be a reason to legitimately fold those hands some % of the time (light 3bettor you don't know how to exploit yet, etc), but he isn't stating those reasons. And two, if it's marginal, yet still mildly +EV then why wouldn't you do it? Those hands aren't that hard to play, ESPECIALLY IN POSITION!!!! If you are folding them, knowing they are +EV, then you (and whoever else) has very little hope of making a sizable amount of money from poker.
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