Flopped boat counterfeited on the river

BB ($26.07)
UTG ($25.35)
Hero (MP) ($43.86)
CO ($26.68)
Button ($12.58)
SB ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6, 6
UTG bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 4 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 7, 7, 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $2, Hero calls $2

River: ($7.85) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $7.85 | Rake: $0.35

Results:
UTG had 9, 9 (full house, sevens over nines).
Hero mucked 6, 6 (full house, sevens over sixes).
Outcome: UTG won $7.50
[/B]


Ok, yo, this isn't a bad beat story, I'm interested in your opinion on whether or not my reasoning in flatting this all the way was valid.

Villain is 18/14, cbets 60% on the flop. On the flop, it's just a cbet. Maybe he has a hand that I want him to improve so he'll get in a big pot, maybe he has a PP that he won't call a raise on this flop with, or may call a raise then shut down on later streets. He can't really have a piece of the flop here, except in the exceedingly unlikely cases of:
1. someone raising 14 percent of preflop hands has raised 76s UTG
or
2.he's got 77 and I'm losing my stack.

Once he bets again on the turn, I figure he has a medium PP, so I flat again, because I want to raise him at the river when the pot's bigger. I don't figure I'm getting much value here by raising the turn, but if the pot is twice the size at the river and he half-pots it again, I can probably minraise back and expect a call, out of curiosity if nothing else.

I know it's a sucky way to lose a pot, but that's irrelevant here, of course it's obvious once the river comes that I'm beat, I'm really not expecting the previous 2 streets of action with 22/33/44, he may not even be opening them UTG in the first place. The 7 on the river is a freak occurance, and of course in this particular hand I'd have been better off raising the turn, but in general do you think the way I played this was optimal?

What's your bluff line in a spot like this?

An excellent question, to which the honest answer is I'm not sure, so I need to do some thinking. Flat flop raise turn looks good on this board, but I wouldn't barrel that river. Should've raised the turn.

Raise flop, bet/fold turn might also occur to me.

I guess the moral of that story is, your boat looks a lot scarier when you know you've really got it.

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

bet/fold turn might also occur to me.

Why would you ever b/f this turn? We lose to one combo.

I'm probably playing this hand the same. I'm only raising this turn if I think villain calls his overpairs, I certainly don't want him to fold. Guess that depends if I've been caught bluffing the turn in recent memory...

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Why would you ever b/f this turn? We lose to one combo.

I'm probably playing this hand the same. I'm only raising this turn if I think villain calls his overpairs, I certainly don't want him to fold. Guess that depends if I've been caught bluffing the turn in recent memory...

I wasn't suggesting folding _this_ hand! I was talking about my bluff line in this spot. I'd consider, after raising the flop with air, betting the turn if checked to, or folding if he bets the turn after calling my flop raise.

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

I wasn't suggesting folding _this_ hand! I was talking about my bluff line in this spot.

Oh my mistake, I have a habit of taking comments out of context!

The reason your bluff line is important is because if villain is not giving you bluffs when you raise the flop or turn then raising is bad. If you don't tend to bluff these spots, then I think calling flop and turn > raising, we do not want villain to fold his overpairs when he has 4 outs (both 7s and both his hole cards) and will give us one more street of value.

But if you have a bluffy image at this table, then raising flop and turn must be better than calling.

raise turn

raise flop, he's very likely to call or shove TT+ and sometimes even some AJ+, since you dont have 7x in your range in that position too often and most time he will put you on bluffs and small PP.
never ever b/f turn on this, if he checks, then b/c, if he bets, raise again.

If we were gonna bluff the flop the hands we would do it with are hands that want A high to fold or pocket 4s not 88+ so we can obviously raise the flop for value too, as you rep such a small range when you raise people do some silly shit. If you have a really solid image and are likely to get respect I wouldn't raise until the riv and only then if I think he actually has worse that would call. Raising the turn is your worst option. You value cut yourself so much when you raise the turn it's terrible. How can AA call a turn raise he knows at that point he has a bluff catcher and nothing else. I think your line is fine unless you have been splashing around a lot and villain is paying attention, then raise flop is better.

I think kickass has it right - I guess it's situational. This is an excellent spot to find yourself in if you've just been splashing around a lot for the last few orbits, then raise flop and go from there.

You also make a good point about raising the turn. I'd flat the flop here and raise the turn as a bluff, and as you pointed out, someone with AA here is not a happy man. I guess that makes it a pretty solid bluffing line, but only a good value line when a really aggressive dynamic is in play and he's likely to play back with an overpair, in which case it would have been even better to raise the flop. OTOH, when there isn't that aggro dynamic, there's not much that can be done here to extract more value.

He's not going to fold a pair on the flop to a reasonable raise, which sets up for bigger value bets later.

Unless he 2/3 barrels these boards with air often flatting isn't good.

Originally Posted by Hoopy

He's not going to fold a pair on the flop to a reasonable raise, which sets up for bigger value bets later.

Unless he 2/3 barrels these boards with air often flatting isn't good.

There is a difference between him calling a raise and him calling off his stack, many turns and rivers are gonna scare him off when we keep betting. Making him fold out hands that can improve to second best or hands that will continue bluffing is a mistake. Mid PPs that call a flop raise and fold the turn arent where the monies at.

Originally Posted by kickass

There is a difference between him calling a raise and him calling off his stack, many turns and rivers are gonna scare him off when we keep betting. Making him fold out hands that can improve to second best or hands that will continue bluffing is a mistake. Mid PPs that call a flop raise and fold the turn arent where the monies at.

We don't have any indication he will keep bluffing on the turn with a wide rangeand I wouldn't assume some 25NL random would fold the turn often with a mid PP after calling the flop.

Are there any good players who want to comment on this? Yaawn, Dozer, Stacks??

Any flop/turn line is fine as long as you do it for the right reasons. Nothing wrong with how this was played if we expect him to barrel a lot etc.