Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumBeginners Circle

guidelines for postflop raise amounts

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1

    Default guidelines for postflop raise amounts

    I know there is not single, one-size-fits-all answer to this, but I'm just looking for a very rough guideline because I'm realizing I've been all over the place in how I play this and I've read some conflicting things out there....

    What is the standard amount you raise by when facing a bet postflop?

    Let's take a simple & pretty common example: you're in a micro-low stakes game, facing reg/abc type players with no reads, and both you & the villain have full stacks.

    Preflop: Hero is LP with AK.
    Folded to Hero, Hero raises to 3.5bb, 2 folds, SB calls 2.5bb.

    Flop: (8bb) A K x (2 players)
    SB bets 6bb, Hero raises to ... ???

    Again, I know this changes depending on the villain and the board, but in a common heads up situation like this, is there general a rule of thumb? Do you base the raise amount on a % of the pot after the villain's bet (in this case 14bb), or his bet, or both? Thanks.
    Last edited by rowhousepd; 07-17-2015 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Edited so hero has stronger hand on flop
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by rowhousepd View Post
    Again, I know this changes depending on the villain and the board, but in a common heads up situation like this, is there general a rule of thumb? Do you base the raise amount on a % of the pot after the villain's bet (in this case 14bb), or his bet, or both? Thanks.
    You're describing a scenario where you know absolutely nothing about villain, which is important to consider. There will be many spots you get into when it's your first few hands at the table, or against someone new at the table. Without any stats or reads on villain, the board texture becomes important, along with your hand strength, the size of villain's bet, and his stack size.

    In this example, I assume there are no flush draws, so you are likely way ahead here. But don't be afraid of scaring villain away - you have to build a pot, so I like a raise. When a random villain donk bets here, I think his likely holding is top pair, weak kicker, or some kind of king. You need to raise with the intention of being able to bet again on the turn and shove on the river. But not so much to get him to consider folding his hand. The trick is to reel him in slowly until he gets to a point where he's at the river, has committed half his stack, and the pot is too big so he "can't" fold. Assuming you both have 100 bbs, a raise of 15bbs on the flop should be good. It could play out like this:

    Preflop: Raise 3.5 bbs (Pot size: 8 bbs, Stack size: 96.5 bbs)
    Flop: Raise 15 bbs (Pot size: 38 bbs, Stack size: 81.5 bbs)
    Turn: Bet 30 bbs (Pot size: 98 bbs, Stack size: 51.5 bbs)
    River All-in 51.5 bbs

    This will set you up with a 53% pot sized bet for all-in on the river.

    It's hard to give a rule of thumb or generalization in these situations but you want to consider building the pot, in addition to the board texture, your hand, and villain's stack size.
    Last edited by givememyleg; 07-17-2015 at 10:13 PM. Reason: a word
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    In this example, I assume there are no flush draws, so you are likely way ahead here. But don't be afraid of scaring villain away - you have to build a pot, so I like a raise. When a random villain donk bets here, I think his likely holding is top pair, weak kicker, or some kind of king. You need to raise with the intention of being able to bet again on the turn and shove on the river. But not so much to get him to consider folding his hand. The trick is to reel him in slowly until he gets to a point where he's at the river, has committed half his stack, and the pot is too big so he "can't" fold. Assuming you both have 100 bbs, a raise of 15bbs on the flop should be good.
    Right, my scenario was that there weren't any obvious draws, so I have to assume my 2 pair is way ahead. (Should have mentioned that.) I do get the general idea that I want build the pot and ideally get his SPR nice & small by the river with his measly TP hand.

    15bb. Huh. Just so I'm clear you're saying I'm raising a total of 15 (not 15 on top of his 6bb bet), correct? I'll run a report in HM after I post and see, but I'm going to guess in situations like that's (w/out a drawy board) I've been raising much smaller.

    But even if there were two suited cards on the flop and thus a possible flush draw, I basically want to lay him just over the correct odds to call chasing a flush? Would I need to make it bigger than 15bb? If I'm right, that would make it 29:9 or ~3:1 to call, which still seems like an ok amount, no?)

    Perhaps I've been raising too timidly all this time. Yikes!
    Last edited by rowhousepd; 07-18-2015 at 03:51 AM. Reason: Whoops. Misread the previous post and had to change my reply.
  4. #4
    I wouldn't look for any hard and fast rules, but I would definitely think about sizing and how it impacts villains continuing range.

    If you're facing a 6bb donk on AhKs5h board with AKdd.

    If you make it 12bb total (min raise) - Villains continuing range is all Ax,Kx, QJ/QT/JT, FD's. Maybe even some 5x and mid pairs like 88/99. Obviously anything better than Ax.
    If you make it 18bb - Villains continuing range is likely Ax and FDs, and all hand > one pair. Villain may also fold some bad Ax. It's possible he continues with some gutters + BDFDs.
    If you make it 20+bb - Villain's continuing range is likely only good Ax, strong FD's (or combo draws) and likely fold all/most Kx and a lot of Ax.

    I think the key is just understanding how different these continuing ranges are, and how that impacts the success/fold equity of any subsequent barrels (Turn/River) you make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  5. #5
    Thanks, griffey. That makes a lot of sense to me. I think I was a bit confused about this in part because when I was looking at the hand where I had faced a raise, I was noticing villains were raising really low amounts; it seemed like min-raises and half-pot raises were far & away the most common. Running a custom report confirmed this.

    ... And then I remembered that I'm playing the micros, so this may not exactly be the best practice. Thanks again. Cheers.
  6. #6
    Am I wrong for wanting to call here, seeing if villain will lead out on the turn?
    know the enemy and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in peril.

    know yourself but ignorant of the enemy, your chances of winning are half.

    if ignorant of yourself and of your enemy and you will always be in danger.
  7. #7
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    10,322
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by ledfut View Post
    Am I wrong for wanting to call here, seeing if villain will lead out on the turn?
    Bottom line is that it depends on the villain. Villain's ranges, that is.

    Calling here would widely be considered to be a less profitable play than raising.

    If you understand what givememyleg was driving at, then you're basically making it more likely that this will be a small pot and not a big pot.

    It's hard to imaging that top 2 pair is not the top of your range on most flops. It is usually the most +EV to play the top of your range aggressively. The times where it's not the best is when you have history with a player and have established reads which lead you to a more +EV line.

    ***
    It's good practice to not only consider your raise amount, but also how you will respond to a re-raise from Villain. This is part of managing the mental game and avoiding surprises. Surprises mean there was a discontinuity in your thought process. These add up and decrease mental endurance.
  8. #8
    I tend to click "50% pot" and then adjust accordingly, depending on board texture and villain(s).

    I think this is how it works... let's assume the pot is 10bb, and villain bets 6bb. Now it's 16bb, and I click the 50% button. I would effectively first call the 6bb, making the pot 22bb, then raise by half, which is now 11bb, meaning I would raise to 17bb. Villain now faces an 11bb call into a 33bb pot. He has 3:1, so if the flop is wet, or villain tends to call raises too much, or I'm looking to build the pot to get a big stack in by river, I would increase the raise size to decrease his pot odds and/or increase the pot.

    However it works on a mathematical level, by clicking 50% I quickly get to an acceptable default raise amount offering 3:1, which is usually adjusted.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 08-03-2015 at 07:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •