Had a really craptacular session tonight

Again another time where I won small pots and lost some big ones. Had a bad run in with one particular villain who took my entire stack with two hands. I'm going to post these hands with my comments because I know I played them both badly.

My table image is pretty tight, I was running about 22/12 but couldn't get any value from my good hands.

PokerStars Game #20233539060: Holdem No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/09/07 21:38:26 ET
Table Memnon 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: BlackRain79 ($9.93 in chips)
Seat 2: steviex2 ($4.31 in chips)
Seat 3: gary47433 ($4.70 in chips)
Seat 4: JONNIE GIRL ($1.79 in chips)
Seat 5: CBDAWG9 ($6 in chips)
Seat 6: deviantla ($4.41 in chips)
Seat 7: veidtmeister ($7.23 in chips)
Seat 8: ponyfitness ($7.12 in chips)
Seat 9: buehl111 ($13.42 in chips)
JONNIE GIRL: posts small blind $0.02
CBDAWG9: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ponyfitness [Kc Ad]
deviantla: calls $0.05
veidtmeister: folds
ponyfitness: calls $0.05

* I only limped here because I had raised with the exact same hand and took at down with a c-bet literally the hand before.

buehl111: raises $0.05 to $0.10
BlackRain79: folds
steviex2: folds
gary47433: folds
JONNIE GIRL: folds
JONNIE GIRL said, "WHERE ARE YOU FROM"
CBDAWG9: folds
deviantla: calls $0.05
ponyfitness: calls $0.05
*** FLOP *** [Ks 8h Qs]
deviantla: checks
ponyfitness: bets $0.20

* Very weak bet - however I was also finding that people were folding to strong bets from me and I wanted to get some value out of this hand. Probably should have been at least .50.

gary47433 said, "indiana"
buehl111: raises $0.45 to $0.65
deviantla: folds
JONNIE GIRL said, "SC"
ponyfitness: calls $0.45
*** TURN *** [Ks 8h Qs] [Th]
ponyfitness: checks
buehl111: bets $1.25

* By this time I'm wondering what he could have. My read was over 80 hands and I had seen everything from 4/5s raised preflop to KK pushed preflop. It was very hard to put him on a hand but I thought 88 or AJ was a possibility due to the minraise preflop.

JONNIE GIRL said, " IS IT COLD THERE"
gary47433 said, "70s"
ponyfitness: raises $1.25 to $2.50

* Should have raised this more, probably to at least $3 or $4.

buehl111: calls $1.25
*** RIVER *** [Ks 8h Qs Th] [8s]
ponyfitness: checks

* By this time I knew I was beaten when he just called my raise.

JONNIE GIRL said, "90s here"
gary47433 said, "bike weather"
buehl111: bets $2.30
JONNIE GIRL said, "yes"
ponyfitness: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.30) returned to buehl111
veidtmeister said, "wow"
buehl111 collected $6.37 from pot
buehl111: doesnt show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.67 | Rake $0.30
Board [Ks 8h Qs Th 8s]
Seat 1: BlackRain79 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: steviex2 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 3: gary47433 (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: JONNIE GIRL (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: CBDAWG9 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: deviantla folded on the Flop
Seat 7: veidtmeister folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 8: ponyfitness folded on the River
Seat 9: buehl111 collected ($6.37)

Okay, so laid that one down - however when the almost exact same situation came up I decided to do what I thought I should have done last time for the most part.

PokerStars Game #20233993232: Holdem No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/09/07 21:58:59 ET
Table Memnon 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: BlackRain79 ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: steviex2 ($4.17 in chips)
Seat 3: gary47433 ($4.68 in chips)
Seat 4: JONNIE GIRL ($3.07 in chips)
Seat 5: Diddler01 ($5.27 in chips)
Seat 6: deviantla ($4.12 in chips)
Seat 7: veidtmeister ($7.08 in chips)
Seat 8: ponyfitness ($3.93 in chips)
Seat 9: buehl111 ($16.58 in chips)
Diddler01: posts small blind $0.02
deviantla: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ponyfitness [Ks Ac]
veidtmeister: folds
ponyfitness: raises $0.15 to $0.20
buehl111: calls $0.20
BlackRain79: folds
steviex2: folds
gary47433: folds
JONNIE GIRL: calls $0.20
Diddler01: folds
deviantla: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kc 2s 9h]
ponyfitness: bets $0.50
buehl111: calls $0.50
JONNIE GIRL: folds
*** TURN *** [Kc 2s 9h] [2c]
ponyfitness: bets $1

* Here again I should have bet more - $2 at least.

buehl111: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [Kc 2s 9h 2c] [9d]
ponyfitness: bets $1
buehl111: raises $1.50 to $2.50
ponyfitness: calls $1.23 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.27) returned to buehl111
*** SHOW DOWN ***
buehl111: shows [8c 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Deuces)
ponyfitness: mucks hand
buehl111 collected $7.78 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.13 | Rake $0.35
Board [Kc 2s 9h 2c 9d]
Seat 1: BlackRain79 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: steviex2 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 3: gary47433 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: JONNIE GIRL (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Diddler01 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: deviantla (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: veidtmeister folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 8: ponyfitness mucked [Ks Ac]
Seat 9: buehl111 showed [8c 9c] and won ($7.78) with a full house, Nines full of Deuces

Okay, so he sucked out the full house on the river - do you think if I had bet the proper size on the turn I would have driven him out of the hand?

I had a decent session otherwise in terms of bet sizing but when I get into a confrontation like with this guy I have real problems.

Originally Posted by ponyboy

My table image is pretty tight, I was running about 22/12

Things such as image isn't accounted for at 5nl. Or evern 25nl, and maybe higher. THe fact of the matter is the majority of your opponents aren't paying enough attention to make it +ev to make an image-dependent move. Also, fwiw, if you are seen as running 22/12 that isn't "pretty tight" that is semi-loose and rather limptastic.

As far as hand one you messed up preflop so it's gonna be hard to get advice because most people won't be in this situation. Raise preflop. And your reasoning for limping isn't a sound one either. "I raised with the exact same hand and won with a c-bet the hand before." For one, the villians don't know you had the same hand. And two you make it sound as if that is a bad thing that you won on the flop with a c-bet. It really isn't. Better than playing a big pot and losing amirite? So once again just focuing on making the most +ev moves, and limp/calling here isn't it.

Hand 1: Raise preflop
Hand 2: Raise turn like you've got a pair

use the hand converter please!

Originally Posted by ponyboy

My table image is pretty tight, I was running about 22/12 but couldn't get any value from my good hands.

you don't have an image at 5nl. Also, if 22-12 is standard for you then you should be working on your pre-flop game. Read some of the stickies about pre-flop play.

hand 1:
how are your reads so strong - "by this time I knew I was beaten when he just called"

pre-flop - don't limp AK. And especially don't limp-call AK. Look at your justification for doing so, does it make any sense? no. In fact, it supports building a pot that you can take down on the flop.

flop - bet pot, be prepared to fold cos of the situation your preflop play put you in. Fold to the re-raise.

turn - call, don't raise.
river - as played you have to call.

hand 2:
pre-flop good.
Flop good.
Turn - bet 3/4 pot for value, expect to be called by weak kings.
River - again, why the silly bet size? Just push

you'll be fine! being able to recognise the hands as badly played sets you apart from most of your opposition, now learn from it!

Originally Posted by daven

hand 1:
how are your reads so strong - "by this time I knew I was beaten when he just called"

More to the point, if him calling means you're beat, why raise? Are you bluffing?

I don't want to sound redundant, however you told yourself in hand 1 I believe that you put him on 88 which gave him a set on the flop, however even though you felt beat you still raised. I think the big lesson here is if you choose to limp in for what ever reason you can't put too much value in tptk.. You have to be prepared to lay down a hand as soon as your sure your beat. Not say I think he has a set, I raise. imo

Don

I know it kind of stinks when you get a big hand, you raise and everyone folds. But if you never raise big, you won't win big.
If you don't get called, raise more. I think the problem might be that you are simply too passive.