How much will you call preflop to bust Aces

This guy has raised a staggering 1% of hands preflop.
Sadly I think his PFR is slightly too big to call. How much would you call here when you really know this is AA or KK and you will more than likely take a full stack if you hit and play it well.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($17.85)
CO ($10.55)
Button ($19.90)
SB ($10.20)
Hero ($14.10)
UTG ($3.65)
MP1 ($9.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 6. UTG posts a blind of $0.15.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $0.8, 4 folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $1.10

Not even close.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Not even close.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Not even close.

I take it you fold.

How about if its 4x?

I think id call for 4x. Effective stacks are 140BB

Originally Posted by Pelion

Originally Posted by Fnord

Not even close.

I take it you fold.

How about if its 4x?

I think id call for 4x. Effective stacks are 140BB

I think Fnord's saying he'd insta-call.

If the stacks were deep like this and in the hypothetical universe I KNEW he had AA, I would call with any two non-ace cards. In the real universe where I'm not quite positive he has AA, I'd still call with any pair or suited connector 45s-KQs. You are getting nearly 20:1 implied odds.

Originally Posted by Warpe

I think Fnord's saying he'd insta-call.

I think you might be right there.

As much as it takes... 5-10% of effective stacks preflop.


PokerStars Game #4554537974: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/04/07 - 21:33:39 (ET)
Table 'Naos II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: justdonating ($394 in chips)
Seat 2: davidgamer ($109.70 in chips)
Seat 3: FoosMonger ($422.45 in chips)
Seat 4: CrazyRayD ($434.85 in chips)
Seat 5: karl828 ($492.95 in chips)
Seat 6: palpierre ($294.50 in chips)
Seat 7: closedacct ($467.95 in chips)
Seat 8: plokio ($72 in chips)
Seat 9: TalentedTom ($557 in chips)
davidgamer: posts small blind $2
FoosMonger: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [4s 7s]
CrazyRayD: folds
karl828: raises $10 to $14
palpierre: folds
closedacct: folds
plokio: folds
TalentedTom: calls $14
justdonating: calls $14
davidgamer: calls $12
FoosMonger: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 4d 4c]
davidgamer: checks
karl828: bets $20
TalentedTom: calls $20
justdonating: folds
davidgamer: folds
*** TURN *** [Js 4d 4c] [Qd]
karl828: bets $55
TalentedTom: calls $55
*** RIVER *** [Js 4d 4c Qd] [9d]
karl828: bets $100
TalentedTom: raises $100 to $200
karl828: calls $100
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [4s 7s] (three of a kind, Fours)
karl828: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $607 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $610 | Rake $3
Board [Js 4d 4c Qd 9d]
Seat 1: justdonating (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: davidgamer (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: FoosMonger (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: CrazyRayD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: karl828 mucked [Ac As]
Seat 6: palpierre folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: closedacct folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: plokio folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TalentedTom showed [4s 7s] and won ($607) with three of a kind, Fours






PokerStars Game #4485372115: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/01 - 12:16:58 (ET)
Table 'Alya' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: LuckyRiver19 ($67.50 in chips)
Seat 2: garkencha2 ($72 in chips)
Seat 3: m3lancholy ($200 in chips)
Seat 4: cyberpeogh ($209.50 in chips)
Seat 5: grayzee1 ($238.70 in chips)
Seat 6: JoyGrithero ($305.55 in chips)
Seat 7: bourkey ($461.25 in chips)
Seat 8: TITLEIST34 ($246.40 in chips)
Seat 9: TalentedTom ($209.75 in chips)
TalentedTom: posts small blind $1
LuckyRiver19: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [2s 5s]
bourkey said, "sorry guy...im getting crasy cards"
garkencha2 has timed out while being disconnected
garkencha2: folds
garkencha2 is sitting out
m3lancholy: folds
cyberpeogh: folds
grayzee1: folds
garkencha2 is disconnected
JoyGrithero: folds
bourkey: raises $8 to $10
TITLEIST34: folds
TalentedTom: calls $9
LuckyRiver19: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 2c 5h]
TalentedTom: bets $20
bourkey: raises $44 to $64
TalentedTom: raises $86 to $150
bourkey: raises $86 to $236
TalentedTom: calls $49.75 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [8s 2c 5h] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [8s 2c 5h Kd] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [2s 5s] (two pair, Fives and Deuces)
bourkey: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $418.50 from pot
bourkey said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $421.50 | Rake $3
Board [8s 2c 5h Kd Jd]
Seat 1: LuckyRiver19 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: garkencha2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: m3lancholy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: cyberpeogh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: grayzee1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: JoyGrithero folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bourkey mucked [Ad As]
Seat 8: TITLEIST34 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TalentedTom (small blind) showed [2s 5s] and won ($418.50) with two pair, Fives and Deuces





PokerStars Game #4474664702: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/03/31 - 13:18:19 (ET)
Table 'Albireo V' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: djzip13 ($165.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Daut44 ($204.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Dollarkd ($34.20 in chips)
Seat 4: TalentedTom ($198 in chips)
Seat 5: smickels ($198 in chips)
Seat 6: DojaPipe ($115.50 in chips)
Seat 7: 2the kid2 ($212.90 in chips)
Seat 8: master cmndr ($497.10 in chips)
Seat 9: Blue_eyes89 ($221.20 in chips)
TalentedTom: posts small blind $1
smickels: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [7h 9h]
DojaPipe: raises $4 to $6
2the kid2: folds
master cmndr: folds
Blue_eyes89: folds
djzip13: calls $6
Daut44: folds
Dollarkd: folds
TalentedTom: calls $5
smickels: raises $10 to $16
DojaPipe: calls $10
djzip13: folds
TalentedTom: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [3d 5d 7s]
TalentedTom: checks
smickels: bets $22
DojaPipe: folds
TalentedTom: calls $22
*** TURN *** [3d 5d 7s] [9d]
TalentedTom: bets $160 and is all-in
smickels: calls $160 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [3d 5d 7s 9d] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [7h 9h] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
smickels: shows [Ad As] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
TalentedTom said, "what a bs hit"
smickels collected $415 from pot
TalentedTom said, "god"
smickels said, "lol wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $418 | Rake $3
Board [3d 5d 7s 9d 5c]
Seat 1: djzip13 folded before Flop
Seat 2: Daut44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Dollarkd (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TalentedTom (small blind) showed [7h 9h] and lost with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 5: smickels (big blind) showed [Ad As] and won ($415) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 6: DojaPipe folded on the Flop
Seat 7: 2the kid2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: master cmndr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Blue_eyes89 folded before Flop (didn't bet)





PokerStars Game #4530133292: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/05 - 15:26:00 (ET)
Table 'Dike' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: cawz ($118.20 in chips)
Seat 2: TalentedTom ($1481.35 in chips)
Seat 3: crypiter ($68.80 in chips)
Seat 5: sircocacola ($78 in chips)
Seat 6: l33twingman ($234.85 in chips)
Seat 7: Tashunca Uit ($145.10 in chips)
Seat 8: hiholdemjj ($176.40 in chips)
Seat 9: BigBluffn83 ($55.30 in chips)
sircocacola: posts small blind $1
l33twingman: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [9c 8c]
sokrplyr02 leaves the table
Tashunca Uit: folds
hiholdemjj: folds
BigBluffn83: folds
cawz: folds
TalentedTom: raises $6 to $8
crypiter: folds
sircocacola: calls $7
l33twingman: raises $17 to $25
TalentedTom: calls $17
sircocacola: folds
*** FLOP *** [4c 7s 5c]
l33twingman: bets $55
TalentedTom: calls $55
*** TURN *** [4c 7s 5c] [Kc]
l33twingman: bets $154.85 and is all-in
TalentedTom: calls $154.85
*** RIVER *** [4c 7s 5c Kc] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
l33twingman: shows [Ah Ad] (a pair of Aces)
TalentedTom: shows [9c 8c] (a flush, King high)
TalentedTom collected $474.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $477.70 | Rake $3
Board [4c 7s 5c Kc Js]
Seat 1: cawz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TalentedTom showed [9c 8c] and won ($474.70) with a flush, King high
Seat 3: crypiter (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sircocacola (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: l33twingman (big blind) showed [Ah Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 7: Tashunca Uit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: hiholdemjj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: BigBluffn83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 2: TalentedTom ($1481.35 in chips)

thats ridiculous

Wow. How did you know they all had AA. Do you just go by PFR % or do they have betsize tells or something aswell?

You need ~40:1 to call with suited trash because you won't hit as often as a set and will get sucked out on more often. Position and reads help.

Originally Posted by Fnord

You need ~40:1 to call with suited trash because you won't hit as often as a set and will get sucked out on more often. Position and reads help.

If you have a strong read that they are on AA I think you could afford to call for less than 40:1, don't you?

If you flop trips or a str8 you are practically guaranteed to take their stack (if they suck). If you flop two pair or a flush you are practically guaranteed to stack them as long as they don't suck out.

With suited connectors you are basically 5% to flop 2 pair or better. You are at a much higher percentage to flop a good draw, but nonetheless, I would only call if I thought on avg. I could make 20 times the bet back.

I would only make this call if there were 3 or 4 other callers and I knew that a ton of money was going onto the table after the flop. Either way, don't expect to make a ton of money in the long run on a call like this.

You guys are way off
You should be calling raises up to 10BB from any position with suited connectors if the raiser is tight and you guys have 140BB+ and you play well postflop
Tom is a huge winner and it's in large part because of hands like the ones shown
I play the same and this is where much of my profit comes from...
Consider the fact that youre like 30% to have two pair+ by the end of the hand with SCs and most guys have trouble laying down AA/KK...

Originally Posted by Renton

Seat 2: TalentedTom ($1481.35 in chips)

thats ridiculous

If you want i can dig up in my archives and post days where i had 3k in tables at 200NL - several 1k+ pots in 200NL if you'r interested.. 200NL is an absolute donkfest, as is 400NL, I don't think stars gets decent untill 1000NL

I think how people SC's accounts for the large gap between big winners and marginal winners.

30% plus to get 2 pair by the end of the hand? Where is that coming from? That is not true at all. You are about 22-23% to beat the AA by the river and like I said, you are only approximately 5% to be ahead after the flop. Now, if you believe you can take down some pots you don't win, than that brings up your win rate, but then again, if that is true than you aren't destacking the guy quite as much are you. Also, to see that 22-23% of wins by the river you are going to have to call some big flop and turn raises a lot of the time where you dont see the river.

To be honest, your post is so sour, I think you are just trying to spread bad play around so that you can help create some more donks on these boards.

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

200NL is an absolute donkfest, as is 400NL, I don't think stars gets decent untill 1000NL

Depends on the time of day. I've been playing some off hours 100NL and have gotten some good practice against aware players. My style works really good stacking bad players (I tend to get more shots and perhaps a little more action than the tighter guys.) Works ok beating up on weak players when I have position. Out of position I have trouble against guys who play me for a range of JJ+/AK.

Originally Posted by dpe8598

To be honest, your post is so sour, I think you are just trying to spread bad play around so that you can help create some more donks on these boards.

NLHE is a really funny game. It's hard to render a definative verdict on a particular play without looking at the big picture.

Fnord, sure you have to look at the big picture, which is why I said that against a good group, with decent position, and with a couple callers (or knowing that I will get some limpers) I love to call a big raise w/ suited connectors or even gappers. In fact, I would have called 1 or 2 of Tom's above.

However, if you are just blindly calling 10xBB raises w/ suited connectors in any position you are losing money. There is plenty to consider.

FOLD FOLD FOLD...suited connectors are hard to hit. And even if you get a good draw after the flop any decent player is going to follow through with a strong enough bet to take away any decent implied odds. I prefer to raise with these hands PF in position if I am going to play them. This has proven to be +EV through 54k hands. Calling 10x BB raise with a drawing hand leads to many hands of leaking cash followed by a few moments of prideful glory when you hit.

You hold 67 flop comes 78T double suited...PFR bets, you raise 4x, who wins?

Mr.Pelion given effective stack sizes - your 76s is an insta-call

Tom

Dude just stop it alright. We are onto your plan now to turn us all into donks with your 'advice'. Obviously you are merely trying to turn us all into complete donks to continue with your plan of world domination - what other rational explanation of your post could there be.

I have also been informed of your plan to rename FTR Donks-R-Us.com.

It really depends on the raiser and my position.
for the best players at 200 nl im less likely to call anyting over 4bb with a low pp because my implied odds are very small.
fortunately, there arent a whole lot of good players at 200 nl, so for everyone else im much more liberal with my calling. maybe 5-6 bb's against players like this with low pp's.
SC"s i like to raise in position when i play them, or get in for cheap in early position . i dont like calling anything over 3bb's with them.
thats just me...

You guys GROSSLY underestimate the power of suited connectors and fold equity
It is a SIN not to call 4bb when you are 140 deep in position against a tight raiser with as much money...
But hey, if you guys are folding SCs against me when I raise in EP it makes my life a lot easier...

I think there's just too much 'tight is right' in here. I play all kinds of garbage in position when my opponents are transparent or likely to destack at any moment. If they're really bad I'll play SCs, gappers, pocket 2s, KJ, etc. OOP.

If you guys have bad stats when you play SCs to PFRs, it probably has more to do with the type of game you're in, how you play them, and whether you read your opponents correctly.

That said, I fold here. We're not calculating odds on how you get to the flop, we're going to need the turn and the river most of the time. If this guy knows much at all, he's going to make it very expensive for you.

at your stakes just 6 table and play only the nuts. people never fold. don't play poker, play nuts and go all in when you have the best of it. stop trying to get fancy. no need. just play top six hand and six table. all you need to do. you will move up quick if you listen to this advice. stop fooling around. fooling around with suited connectors is when stacks get deeper and people actually fold. when there is actually fold equity. when fold equity actually exists. here people call everything. no fold equity. no need to play around with garbage.

learn how to win with basic top tier hands before trying to get fancy. at your skill level you will lose more chasing and donking off chips calling with the worst of it than actually win with these connectors. learn to win with top tier hands. by winning i mean learn to fold when you sense you are beat. if you get good at this at these stakes the money rolls in without the need to play any other lesser hands. no need to get fancy kid you are playing with monkeys.

Originally Posted by Warpe

Originally Posted by Pelion

Originally Posted by Fnord

Not even close.

I take it you fold.

How about if its 4x?

I think id call for 4x. Effective stacks are 140BB

I think Fnord's saying he'd insta-call.

I havn't read past this post, but no, he isn't.

Originally Posted by nutsinho

You guys GROSSLY underestimate the power of suited connectors and fold equity
It is a SIN not to call 4bb when you are 140 deep in position against a tight raiser with as much money...
But hey, if you guys are folding SCs against me when I raise in EP it makes my life a lot easier...

big difference between a 4x raise IN position vs an 8x raise OUT of position.

While we're at it, we might as well debate whether loose or tight play is optimal given a typical NL ring game.

Better yet, let's just talk about how to beat poker.

oh damn i didn't notice he was out of position.
it is a fold then. (yeah i was exaggerating when i suggested you should be calling 10x out of position)

I always call when I'm not in position.

As long as you'r willing to get crazy you can win with any 2
My goal is to inspire others to open up their game.

PokerStars Game #4530414244: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/05 - 16:01:36 (ET)
Table 'Anchialos II' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: tripCCC ($198 in chips)
Seat 3: chabby36 ($310.75 in chips)
Seat 4: pataässä ($223.45 in chips)
Seat 5: dal21 ($620.40 in chips)
Seat 6: TalentedTom ($204.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Elvis-73 ($211.80 in chips)
Seat 9: AceJackOff33 ($159.15 in chips)
dal21: posts small blind $1
TalentedTom: posts big blind $2
rounders24/7: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [6h 3h]
dal21 said, "ty"
Elvis-73: folds
AceJackOff33: folds
tripCCC: folds
chabby36: folds
pataässä: calls $2
dal21: raises $6 to $8
TalentedTom: calls $6
pataässä: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [2c 5h 4h]
dal21: bets $20
TalentedTom: raises $20 to $40
pataässä: folds
dal21: calls $20
*** TURN *** [2c 5h 4h] [Td]
dal21: checks
TalentedTom: checks
*** RIVER *** [2c 5h 4h Td] [Kh]
dal21: bets $20
TalentedTom: raises $136.65 to $156.65 and is all-in
rounders24/7 leaves the table
dal21 said, "qq"
TalentedTom said, "i doubt it"
TalentedTom said, "just fold"
dal21: calls $136.65
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [6h 3h] (a flush, King high)
dal21: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $414.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $417.30 | Rake $3
Board [2c 5h 4h Td Kh]
Seat 1: tripCCC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: chabby36 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pataässä (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: dal21 (small blind) mucked [Qc Qd]
Seat 6: TalentedTom (big blind) showed [6h 3h] and won ($414.30) with a flush, King high
Seat 7: Elvis-73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: AceJackOff33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)



PokerStars Game #4529976867: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/05 - 15:05:42 (ET)
Table 'Benkoela II' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: TalentedTom ($230.05 in chips)
Seat 2: eddiejeep ($187.95 in chips)
Seat 4: MarcelloGQ96 ($171.85 in chips)
Seat 5: 123shank ($196 in chips)
Seat 6: Lip is Fat ($118.60 in chips)
Seat 9: m8675309a ($514.20 in chips)
Web120 will be allowed to play after the button
MarcelloGQ96: posts small blind $1
123shank: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [3d 8d]
Lip is Fat: folds
m8675309a: calls $2
TalentedTom: calls $2
m8675309a said, "30 preflop"
eddiejeep: calls $2
MarcelloGQ96: calls $1
m8675309a said, "210 after flop"
Lip is Fat said, "then stop *****ing"
123shank: raises $10 to $12
m8675309a: folds
Web120 said, "i guess i missed something big"
TalentedTom: calls $10
eddiejeep: folds
MarcelloGQ96: folds
*** FLOP *** [2d As 9d]
123shank: bets $12
TalentedTom: calls $12
*** TURN *** [2d As 9d] [8c]
123shank: bets $24
TalentedTom: calls $24
*** RIVER *** [2d As 9d 8c] [3h]
TalentedTom said, "shut up"
HanSchnadder joins the table at seat #7
123shank: bets $28
TalentedTom: raises $154.05 to $182.05 and is all-in
123shank: calls $120 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [3d 8d] (two pair, Eights and Threes)
123shank: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $395 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $398 | Rake $3
Board [2d As 9d 8c 3h]
Seat 1: TalentedTom showed [3d 8d] and won ($395) with two pair, Eights and Threes
Seat 2: eddiejeep (button) folded before Flop
Seat 4: MarcelloGQ96 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: 123shank (big blind) mucked [Ks Ac]
Seat 6: Lip is Fat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: m8675309a folded before Flop




PokerStars Game #4508912704: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/03 - 15:49:40 (ET)
Table 'Ida III' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: dgoldberge ($245.20 in chips)
Seat 2: flipthrila ($97 in chips)
Seat 3: TalentedTom ($732.80 in chips)
Seat 4: JoyGrithero ($212.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Prairie Hawk ($165.55 in chips)
Seat 7: 2Cards2Come ($188 in chips)
Seat 8: colinskii ($50.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Hovanky ($58 in chips)
Hovanky: posts small blind $1
dgoldberge: posts big blind $2
ucdaggies26: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [Jd 5d]
flipthrila: folds
TalentedTom: calls $2
JoyGrithero: folds
Prairie Hawk: folds
2Cards2Come: folds
colinskii: calls $2
Hovanky: calls $1
JoyGrithero said, "was that bet meant to push me out tom"
dgoldberge: raises $10 to $12
TalentedTom: calls $10
colinskii: calls $10
Hovanky: folds
*** FLOP *** [4d 3c 7d]
TalentedTom said, "joy"
dgoldberge: bets $25
TalentedTom: calls $25
colinskii: raises $13.90 to $38.90 and is all-in
dgoldberge: calls $13.90
TalentedTom: calls $13.90
*** TURN *** [4d 3c 7d] [Ac]
JoyGrithero said, "yeah i called in another 60 with just T high"
JoyGrithero said, "lol"
JoyGrithero said, "on the flop"
dgoldberge: bets $80
TalentedTom: calls $80
*** RIVER *** [4d 3c 7d Ac] [6c]
JoyGrithero said, "T9 v 99"
dgoldberge: bets $114.30 and is all-in
TalentedTom: calls $114.30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dgoldberge: shows [Ad As] (three of a kind, Aces)
TalentedTom: shows [Jd 5d] (a straight, Three to Seven)
JoyGrithero said, "good experience tho"
TalentedTom collected $388.60 from side pot
colinskii: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $151.70 from main pot
colinskii leaves the table
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $543.30 Main pot $151.70. Side pot $388.60. | Rake $3
Board [4d 3c 7d Ac 6c]
Seat 1: dgoldberge (big blind) showed [Ad As] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 2: flipthrila folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: TalentedTom showed [Jd 5d] and won ($540.30) with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 4: JoyGrithero folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Prairie Hawk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: 2Cards2Come folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: colinskii (button) mucked [6h 7s]
Seat 9: Hovanky (small blind) folded before Flop





PokerStars Game #4488723323: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/01 - 18:03:58 (ET)
Table 'Priamus' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Head01 ($24 in chips)
Seat 2: MustacKS ($143 in chips)
Seat 3: risk25 ($172.50 in chips)
Seat 4: TalentedTom ($1082.55 in chips)
Seat 5: bulkman ($70.60 in chips)
Seat 6: schickli ($245.90 in chips)
Seat 7: xyrza ($100 in chips)
Seat 8: esti555 ($148.10 in chips)
Head01: posts small blind $1
MustacKS: posts big blind $2
xyrza: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [2d 4d]
risk25: calls $2
TalentedTom: calls $2
Head01 said, "nh"
bulkman: calls $2
schickli: calls $2
xyrza: checks
esti555: calls $2
Head01: folds
MustacKS: raises $5 to $7
risk25: calls $5
TalentedTom: calls $5
bulkman: folds
schickli: calls $5
restynjo joins the table at seat #9
xyrza: folds
esti555: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [6d Th 9d]
MustacKS: bets $7
risk25: calls $7
TalentedTom: calls $7
schickli: folds
esti555: folds
*** TURN *** [6d Th 9d] [7d]
MustacKS: checks
risk25: checks
TalentedTom: bets $35
MustacKS: calls $35
risk25: folds
*** RIVER *** [6d Th 9d 7d] [As]
MustacKS: checks
TalentedTom: bets $1033.55 and is all-in
MustacKS: calls $94 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [2d 4d] (a flush, Nine high)
MustacKS: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $316 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $319 | Rake $3
Board [6d Th 9d 7d As]
Seat 1: Head01 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: MustacKS (big blind) mucked [Td Ac]
Seat 3: risk25 folded on the Turn
Seat 4: TalentedTom showed [2d 4d] and won ($316) with a flush, Nine high
Seat 5: bulkman folded before Flop
Seat 6: schickli folded on the Flop
Seat 7: xyrza folded before Flop
Seat 8: esti555 (button) folded on the Flop





PokerStars Game #4509356943: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/03 - 16:38:54 (ET)
Table 'Bathseba' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: schickli ($350.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Mr.Matrix007 ($49 in chips)
Seat 3: mkyu123 ($220.25 in chips)
Seat 4: RuFio25 ($206 in chips)
Seat 5: marc333 ($208.90 in chips)
Seat 6: Toyoda ($145 in chips)
Seat 7: TalentedTom ($253.20 in chips)
Seat 8: Monodon ($200.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Marccus85 ($200 in chips)
marc333: posts small blind $1
Toyoda: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [5s 4s]
TalentedTom: calls $2
Monodon: folds
Marccus85: folds
schickli: folds
Mr.Matrix007: folds
mkyu123: folds
RuFio25: raises $8 to $10
marc333: folds
Toyoda: folds
TalentedTom: calls $8
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2s 8s]
TalentedTom: bets $10
RuFio25: raises $20 to $30
TalentedTom: raises $60 to $90
RuFio25: calls $60
*** TURN *** [Ts 2s 8s] [7h]
TalentedTom: bets $153.20 and is all-in
RuFio25: calls $106 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Ts 2s 8s 7h] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [5s 4s] (a flush, Ten high)
RuFio25: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $412 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $415 | Rake $3
Board [Ts 2s 8s 7h 5c]
Seat 1: schickli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Mr.Matrix007 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mkyu123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: RuFio25 (button) mucked [Tc Td]
Seat 5: marc333 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Toyoda (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: TalentedTom showed [5s 4s] and won ($412) with a flush, Ten high
Seat 8: Monodon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Marccus85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)





(bluff someone who's pot commited )
PokerStars Game #4487548944: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/01 - 16:12:51 (ET)
Table 'Algebar V' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: schickli ($578.25 in chips)
Seat 4: closedacct ($217 in chips)
Seat 5: Daut44 ($214.90 in chips)
Seat 6: jdoles214 ($219.25 in chips)
Seat 7: TalentedTom ($1162.40 in chips)
Seat 8: HawaiiHoldm ($257.60 in chips)
Seat 9: Brhett ($223.15 in chips)
Brhett: posts small blind $1
schickli: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [6s 3s]
closedacct: folds
Daut44: folds
jdoles214: folds
TalentedTom: raises $6 to $8
HawaiiHoldm: calls $8
Brhett: calls $7
schickli: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c 2d 9d]
Brhett: bets $8
TalentedTom: raises $22 to $30
HawaiiHoldm: folds
Brhett: calls $22
*** TURN *** [8c 2d 9d] [Jc]
freeball44 joins the table at seat #3
Brhett: bets $20
TalentedTom: raises $100 to $120
Brhett: calls $100
*** RIVER *** [8c 2d 9d Jc] [7d]
Brhett: checks
TalentedTom: bets $1004.40 and is all-in
Brhett: folds
TalentedTom collected $323 from pot
TalentedTom: shows [6s 3s] (high card Jack)
TalentedTom said, "OWNED"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $326 | Rake $3
Board [8c 2d 9d Jc 7d]
Seat 1: schickli (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: closedacct folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Daut44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jdoles214 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TalentedTom collected ($323)
Seat 8: HawaiiHoldm (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Brhett (small blind) folded on the River





PokerStars Game #4486233929: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/01 - 14:02:10 (ET)
Table 'Priamus' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Archerjostle ($290 in chips)
Seat 2: Scot Mac ($152.20 in chips)
Seat 3: MoneyMike221 ($252.45 in chips)
Seat 4: TalentedTom ($263 in chips)
Seat 5: djzip13 ($153.50 in chips)
Seat 6: schickli ($251.25 in chips)
Seat 7: 6Tlghorn ($64.75 in chips)
Seat 8: golfinn3 ($130.45 in chips)
Seat 9: 123shank ($218.05 in chips)
Scot Mac: posts small blind $1
MoneyMike221: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [7s 9s]
TalentedTom: calls $2
djzip13: folds
schickli: calls $2
6Tlghorn: calls $2
golfinn3: folds
123shank: folds
Archerjostle: folds
Scot Mac: folds
MoneyMike221: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh 8s As]
MoneyMike221: checks
TalentedTom: bets $8
schickli: folds
6Tlghorn: folds
MoneyMike221: raises $8 to $16
TalentedTom: calls $8
*** TURN *** [Jh 8s As] [Ks]
MoneyMike221: checks
TalentedTom: bets $40
MoneyMike221: calls $40
*** RIVER *** [Jh 8s As Ks] [2d]
MoneyMike221: checks
TalentedTom: bets $205 and is all-in
TalentedTom said, "fold your trash"
MoneyMike221: calls $194.45 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [7s 9s] (a flush, Ace high)
MoneyMike221: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $506.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $509.90 | Rake $3
Board [Jh 8s As Ks 2d]
Seat 1: Archerjostle (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Scot Mac (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: MoneyMike221 (big blind) mucked [Ad Jc]
Seat 4: TalentedTom showed [7s 9s] and won ($506.90) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: djzip13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: schickli folded on the Flop
Seat 7: 6Tlghorn folded on the Flop
Seat 8: golfinn3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: 123shank folded before Flop (didn't bet)





PokerStars Game #4486880300: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/01 - 15:07:50 (ET)
Table 'Algebar V' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: schickli ($428.95 in chips)
Seat 2: gruvy ($200.10 in chips)
Seat 3: PoorUser ($246.45 in chips)
Seat 4: closedacct ($196 in chips)
Seat 5: ColonelDan ($51.15 in chips)
Seat 6: jdoles214 ($264 in chips)
Seat 7: TalentedTom ($1000.70 in chips)
Seat 8: HawaiiHoldm ($218.15 in chips)
Seat 9: Brhett ($304.05 in chips)
TalentedTom: posts small blind $1
HawaiiHoldm: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [Qs Ts]
Brhett: folds
schickli: folds
gruvy: folds
PoorUser: folds
closedacct: folds
ColonelDan: folds
jdoles214: raises $6 to $8
TalentedTom: raises $18 to $26
HawaiiHoldm: folds
jdoles214: calls $18
*** FLOP *** [5c 4s 6s]
TalentedTom: bets $36
jdoles214: raises $52 to $88
TalentedTom: calls $52
*** TURN *** [5c 4s 6s] [7s]
TalentedTom: bets $886.70 and is all-in
jdoles214: calls $150 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [5c 4s 6s 7s] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [Qs Ts] (a flush, Queen high)
jdoles214: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $527 from pot
jdoles214 said, "good job tom"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $530 | Rake $3
Board [5c 4s 6s 7s 8c]
Seat 1: schickli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: gruvy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PoorUser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: closedacct folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ColonelDan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jdoles214 (button) mucked [Kh Ks]
Seat 7: TalentedTom (small blind) showed [Qs Ts] and won ($527) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 8: HawaiiHoldm (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Brhett folded before Flop (didn't bet)





PokerStars Game #4476717614: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/03/31 - 17:28:21 (ET)
Table 'Alioth II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: TalentedTom ($208 in chips)
Seat 3: AcesKip ($351.20 in chips)
Seat 4: oshan2 ($195.40 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerbuster ($80 in chips)
Seat 6: CrazyCash08 ($72.60 in chips)
Seat 7: MCDMKD ($218.55 in chips)
Seat 8: LarBar ($127.25 in chips)
Seat 9: specialsauz ($169.55 in chips)
CrazyCash08: posts small blind $1
MCDMKD: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [5c 8c]
LarBar: folds
specialsauz: folds
TalentedTom: raises $6 to $8
LarBar leaves the table
AcesKip: folds
oshan2: folds
pokerbuster: calls $8
CrazyCash08: folds
MCDMKD: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [7d 6c Jh]
bluesboy41 joins the table at seat #2
MCDMKD: checks
TalentedTom: bets $14
pokerbuster: folds
MCDMKD: calls $14
*** TURN *** [7d 6c Jh] [Tc]
MCDMKD: checks
TalentedTom: bets $45
MCDMKD: calls $45
*** RIVER *** [7d 6c Jh Tc] [4s]
MCDMKD: checks
TalentedTom: bets $141 and is all-in
MCDMKD: calls $141
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [5c 8c] (a straight, Four to Eight)
MCDMKD: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $422 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $425 | Rake $3
Board [7d 6c Jh Tc 4s]
Seat 1: TalentedTom showed [5c 8c] and won ($422) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 3: AcesKip folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: oshan2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pokerbuster (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: CrazyCash08 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: MCDMKD (big blind) mucked [Jc Qc]
Seat 8: LarBar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: specialsauz folded before Flop (didn't bet)





PokerStars Game #4477181169: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/03/31 - 18:14:24 (ET)
Table 'Artemis' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Ferbunga_95 ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 2: fredds73 ($219.05 in chips)
Seat 3: jmh24c ($82 in chips)
Seat 4: OVVELL ($90.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Marccus85 ($266 in chips)
Seat 6: mgw21 ($199.90 in chips)
Seat 7: TalentedTom ($560.05 in chips)
Seat 8: jaydee60 ($80 in chips)
Seat 9: fligan ($192.50 in chips)
Ferbunga_95: posts small blind $1
fredds73: posts big blind $2
Marccus85 said, "lol he bets 8 into 115 tom"
jaydee60: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [2d 5d]
jmh24c: folds
OVVELL: folds
Marccus85: calls $2
mgw21: folds
TalentedTom: calls $2
jaydee60: raises $4 to $6
fligan: folds
Ferbunga_95: folds
fredds73: calls $4
Marccus85: calls $4
TalentedTom: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [7d 2s Kd]
fredds73: checks
Marccus85: checks
TalentedTom: checks
mgw21 leaves the table
jaydee60: bets $8
fredds73: folds
Marccus85: folds
TalentedTom: calls $8
*** TURN *** [7d 2s Kd] [Ad]
TalentedTom: bets $20
jaydee60: calls $20
*** RIVER *** [7d 2s Kd Ad] [Td]
TalentedTom: bets $526.05 and is all-in
BobKard joins the table at seat #6
jaydee60: calls $46 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [2d 5d] (a flush, Ace high)
jaydee60: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $170 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $173 | Rake $3
Board [7d 2s Kd Ad Td]
Seat 1: Ferbunga_95 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: fredds73 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: jmh24c folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: OVVELL folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Marccus85 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: mgw21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TalentedTom showed [2d 5d] and won ($170) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: jaydee60 mucked [Ah Tc]
Seat 9: fligan (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)





PokerStars Game #4368234326: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/03/21 - 19:46:10 (ET)
Table 'Algol II' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: TalentedTom ($431.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Monodon ($348.55 in chips)
Seat 3: ETOWN9287 ($72.55 in chips)
Seat 4: fralik ($341.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Still.iLL ($200 in chips)
Seat 6: igotpoctets ($159 in chips)
Seat 7: srdmat2 ($272.55 in chips)
Seat 8: hardnox101 ($52.30 in chips)
Seat 9: schickli ($226.10 in chips)
schickli: posts small blind $1
TalentedTom: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom [9d 7h]
Monodon: folds
ETOWN9287: folds
fralik: folds
Still.iLL: folds
igotpoctets: folds
srdmat2: raises $4 to $6
hardnox101: calls $6
schickli: folds
TalentedTom: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [4s 9s 7c]
TalentedTom: bets $12
srdmat2: raises $18 to $30
hardnox101: folds
TalentedTom: calls $18
*** TURN *** [4s 9s 7c] [Kd]
TalentedTom: checks
srdmat2: bets $45
TalentedTom: raises $80 to $125
srdmat2: raises $111.55 to $236.55 and is all-in
TalentedTom: calls $111.55
*** RIVER *** [4s 9s 7c Kd] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows [9d 7h] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
srdmat2: mucks hand
TalentedTom collected $549.10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $552.10 | Rake $3
Board [4s 9s 7c Kd 6d]
Seat 1: TalentedTom (big blind) showed [9d 7h] and won ($549.10) with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 2: Monodon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ETOWN9287 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: fralik folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Still.iLL folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: igotpoctets folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: srdmat2 mucked [Ac Ah]
Seat 8: hardnox101 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: schickli (small blind) folded before Flop





Get inspired.

My goal is to inspire others to open up their game.

I hope you are successful.

Also, Tom, thx for the HH's. It's nice seeing a good lagg in action.

What I meant above is that horrible players that try to emulate the good lagg's are generally just huge ATM's. Didn't mean for that to come off the wrong way. How's NL200 treating you anyway?

Tom, do you really just play any two from anywhere?

Tbere are situations where the cards don't matter, and I will play any two in any position against very specific opponents, but it seems you're just seeing every flop. That can't be the case, can it?

Those are sweet. Here's what happens to me when I play that way:

***** Hand History for Game 3976256986 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, April 14, 11:52:47 ET 2006
Table Uncle Ante (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 4: kooyboy ( $28.65 )
Seat 8: CrazyBabes ( $26.17 )
Seat 9: LarsSt111 ( $19.98 )
Seat 10: bax_ax ( $22.31 )
Seat 5: MissedMe ( $24.40 )
Seat 1: kingkai568 ( $48.07 )
Seat 6: steveclaz ( $32.56 )
Seat 7: ColorMeUpPls ( $26.10 )
Seat 3: startrackie ( $24.35 )
startrackie posts small blind [$0.10].
kooyboy posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MissedMe [ 8c Tc ]
MissedMe calls [$0.25].
steveclaz folds.
ColorMeUpPls folds.
CrazyBabes folds.
LarsSt111 folds.
bax_ax raises [$0.50].
kingkai568 folds.
startrackie folds.
kooyboy folds.
MissedMe calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, Jd, 7c ]
MissedMe checks.
bax_ax bets [$2].
MissedMe raises [$6].
bax_ax calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
MissedMe bets [$16].
bax_ax is all-In [$15.81]
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
MissedMe shows [ 8c, Tc ] a straight, eight to queen.
bax_ax shows [ Qc, Qs ] a full house, Queens full of nines.
MissedMe wins $0.19 from side pot #1 with a straight, eight to queen.
bax_ax wins $42.77 from the main pot with a full house, Queens full of nines.

Tom, I would love to see some examples of small pots that you play.

sejje, his style wouldn't ever work at 25nl. No matter how good you are postflop, if you can't fold better hands, it becomes very difficult to make playing 36o preflop profitable.

Yeah, I don't actually play that way.

I played a table or two like that this morning, and that was my result. I had a couple 2pr hands that I got stacked with as well.

Regardless, I think only one of those examples was folding a better hand. All the rest were stacking people with weak hands while holding strong hands yourself.

I realize these are the hands in-between the rest, but they weren't about folding better hands.

Yes, but in the the other times Tom played crap hands like 63o, he either lost a small pot, or made a play on weakness and stole a medium pot. Its these steals that keep a lagg afloat while waits for the next huge pot he's gonna win (or maybe lose).

Originally Posted by Renton

(or maybe lose).

not lose - generally when i go all in i have the nuts or something really close to the nuts - but im always miles ahead, losing is not an option

Originally Posted by Renton

sejje, his style wouldn't ever work at 25nl. No matter how good you are postflop, if you can't fold better hands, it becomes very difficult to make playing 36o preflop profitable.

if i play 25NL i will prob have $300+ per table those stakes are very soft. Since the other players are so much worse i can prob open up my game even more - playing any 2 suited / connecting (up to 2 gapper) from any position and still be massivley +EV

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

Originally Posted by Renton

sejje, his style wouldn't ever work at 25nl. No matter how good you are postflop, if you can't fold better hands, it becomes very difficult to make playing 36o preflop profitable.

if i play 25NL i will prob have $300+ per table those stakes are very soft. Since the other players are so much worse i can prob open up my game even more - playing any 2 suited / connecting (up to 2 gapper) from any position and still be massivley +EV

I don't understand how you could do this. How can you play so well postflop to counter the pot equity disadvantage you'll get preflop by playing such bad hands?

Because equity disadvantage isn't as large as you may think it is. Q2 suited plays preety decent against a hand like AK im not much of an underdog here, and if we both miss our hands ill prob end up winning the hand.
I also have a very powerfull tool here - deception, generally when you try and evaluate your opponents hand range you can narrow it down to maybe 1-5 hands, but against me you really have no clue at all your forced to play card rank - so if you have AK and hit a pair you really have absolutley no idea where you stand.

In short -

I always know what cards you have but you don't have a clue as to what I'm holding.

I think the point about 25NL is valid, you can't know what those guys are playing when some of them think QTo is a solid value raising hand UTG. You need to play against people who have a clue in order to be able to own them so thoroughly.

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

not lose - generally when i go all in i have the nuts or something really close to the nuts - but im always miles ahead, losing is not an option

I get the money in with the nuts all the time and get sucked out. See example above. That being said, I know what you mean.

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

In short -

I always know what cards you have but you don't have a clue as to what I'm holding.

Yeah, this is consistent with TOP and all, but calling often with trash (let alone doing it out of position) is flushing money down the shitter unless you get it back somewhere else. For this to be profitable you must speak to the other half of you game where you steal pots away from weak/tighties quite frequently postflop to keep yourself afloat. Also, you are going to get counterfeited and tripped up quite a bit for your whole stack since you are often up against big stacks.

In sum it appears you are playing a very high variance style and I bet it's damn fun. Also, you seem to play the part of a$$hole/bully quite well, making people want to gamble with you. However, you really don't need to play this way at full table $200NL and down to make a nice juicy profit. Also, wtf is up with some of those suckouts...is this good (see dgoldberge hand)?? Anyway, you can play a much lower variance game and still pwn. Wait...actually, keep selling this idea, it will my life better.

...very interesting post folks.

in my entire experience at 200NL i averaged double digit ptbb/100 i doubt i could have achieved that playing tag.

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

In sum it appears you are playing a very high variance style and I bet it's damn fun. Also, you seem to play the part of a$$hole/bully quite well, making people want to gamble with you. However, you really don't need to play this way at full table $200NL and down to make a nice juicy profit. Also, wtf is up with some of those suckouts...is this good (see dgoldberge hand)?? Anyway, you can play a much lower variance game and still pwn. Wait...actually, keep selling this idea, it will my life better.

...very interesting post folks.

I read this over and I have to admit I don't understand why playing like TalentedTom does, would increase your variance? He's splashing around in a lot of small pots, but when he gets his whole stack into the middle, more often than not he has his opponent owned. It seems to me that the more hands you can play for a profit and the higher your winrate is, the less often you'd have a downswing. Maybe Tom can give us some insight on this point.

so who wants to see more talentedtom hands?

my random-2 hands.


PokerStars Game #5009949431: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/05/21 - 18:34:35 (ET)
Table 'Balios' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Sonny1243 ($7.75 in chips)
Seat 2: mos0669 ($16.25 in chips)
Seat 4: ccclub18 ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 5: thenameis345 ($26.70 in chips)
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ($25.85 in chips)
Sonny1243: posts small blind $0.10
mos0669: posts big blind $0.25
nicolitag: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [7h 5h]
ccclub18: calls $0.25
thenameis345: calls $0.25
johnnyBuz: calls $0.25
Sonny1243: calls $0.15
mos0669: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kc 2s Th]
Sonny1243: checks
mos0669: checks
ccclub18: checks
thenameis345: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $1
Sonny1243: folds
mos0669: folds
ccclub18: calls $1
thenameis345: folds
*** TURN *** [Kc 2s Th] [6h]
ccclub18: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $2.25
ccclub18: calls $2.25
*** RIVER *** [Kc 2s Th 6h] [4h]
ccclub18: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $10
ccclub18: calls $10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnnyBuz: shows [7h 5h] (a flush, Ten high)
ccclub18: mucks hand
johnnyBuz collected $26.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $27.75 | Rake $1.35
Board [Kc 2s Th 6h 4h]
Seat 1: Sonny1243 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: mos0669 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: ccclub18 mucked [As Jd]
Seat 5: thenameis345 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: johnnyBuz (button) showed [7h 5h] and won ($26.40) with a flush, Ten high

- - -


PokerStars Game #4951319521: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/05/16 - 02:53:49 (ET)
Table 'Oberon V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: kampsen_15 ($49.40 in chips)
Seat 2: johnnyBuz ($80.55 in chips)
Seat 3: blazing_2307 ($71 in chips)
Seat 4: charge2rip ($23.35 in chips)
Seat 5: internetthug ($58.85 in chips)
Seat 6: MAYNARD46N2 ($33.25 in chips)
internetthug: posts small blind $0.25
MAYNARD46N2: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [2d 8d]
kampsen_15: calls $0.50
johnnyBuz: raises $2 to $2.50
blazing_2307: folds
charge2rip: folds
internetthug: folds
MAYNARD46N2: folds
kampsen_15: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [2h 2s Js]
kampsen_15: bets $3
johnnyBuz: raises $6 to $9
kampsen_15: calls $6
*** TURN *** [2h 2s Js] [Tc]
kampsen_15: bets $10
johnnyBuz: raises $59.05 to $69.05 and is all-in
kampsen_15: calls $27.90 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2h 2s Js Tc] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kampsen_15: shows [Qc Kc] (a pair of Deuces)
johnnyBuz: shows [2d 8d] (three of a kind, Deuces)
johnnyBuz collected $96.55 from pot
kampsen_15 leaves the table
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $99.55 | Rake $3
Board [2h 2s Js Tc 7h]
Seat 1: kampsen_15 showed [Qc Kc] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 2: johnnyBuz showed [2d 8d] and won ($96.55) with three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 3: blazing_2307 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: charge2rip (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: internetthug (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: MAYNARD46N2 (big blind) folded before Flop

- - -

PokerStars Game #5012023272: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/05/21 - 21:32:30 (ET)
Table 'Marcelle' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Brando555 ($22.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Chezowan ($29.30 in chips)
Seat 3: netmdr ($49.15 in chips)
Seat 4: Necabote ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ($33.15 in chips)
Brando555: posts small blind $0.10
Chezowan: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [7s 4h]
netmdr: calls $0.25
Necabote: calls $0.25
johnnyBuz: raises $1.25 to $1.50
Brando555: folds
Chezowan: folds
netmdr: calls $1.25
Necabote: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s Ad 7c]
soldatti has returned
netmdr: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $2
netmdr: calls $2
*** TURN *** [8s Ad 7c] [7h]
netmdr: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $5
netmdr: calls $5
*** RIVER *** [8s Ad 7c 7h] [Tc]
netmdr: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $24.65 and is all-in
netmdr: calls $24.65
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnnyBuz: shows [7s 4h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
netmdr: mucks hand
johnnyBuz collected $64.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $66.90 | Rake $2
Board [8s Ad 7c 7h Tc]
Seat 1: Brando555 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Chezowan (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: netmdr mucked [9h As]
Seat 4: Necabote folded before Flop
Seat 6: johnnyBuz (button) showed [7s 4h] and won ($64.90) with three of a kind, Sevens

Where's Tom?

i would love to see some more of toms bwnage

This thread has always bugged me and here's why. I see Tom gets a lot of respect here, so sorry if I'm stepping on toes here. But does it not seem to anyone else like he's just some guy chasing and getting lucky? How often is two pair good going to the river? I just don't see any real impressive poker plays here. I would have liked it if he had posted hands with thought where some decisions had to be made and what his reads were and why.

From what I see it's Luck 101 and I don't know how this sustains over the long term. He gets the most money in with big hands but the fact that two pair is counting as a big hand to get all in with seems wrong.

Someone enlighten me. What's he doing that's impressive on his part? Once again, not trying to tear the guy down but I want to understand this.

Originally Posted by Galapogos

This thread has always bugged me and here's why. I see Tom gets a lot of respect here, so sorry if I'm stepping on toes here. But does it not seem to anyone else like he's just some guy chasing and getting lucky? How often is two pair good going to the river? I just don't see any real impressive poker plays here. I would have liked it if he had posted hands with thought where some decisions had to be made and what his reads were and why.

From what I see it's Luck 101 and I don't know how this sustains over the long term. He gets the most money in with big hands but the fact that two pair is counting as a big hand to get all in with seems wrong.

Someone enlighten me. What's he doing that's impressive on his part? Once again, not trying to tear the guy down but I want to understand this.

i don't get it either, but it's fun to see luckbox hands

It's more about his preflop range than anything else. I imagine he's folding a lot of the flop as well. I'd like to see his long-term winrate though...

who wants to find tom and force him to make a video for the vids page of him at 25NL and get up to $300 on every table like he said he could?

Me

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

In short -

I always know what cards you have but you don't have a clue as to what I'm holding.

POKERSTARS GAME #6356797272: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2006/09/20 - 17:04:39 (ET)
Table 'Cyrene II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye ($600 in chips)
Seat 2: jmc2536 ($741.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Radioheads ($591 in chips)
Seat 4: Hadican ($783.90 in chips)
Seat 5: djalminha ($979.85 in chips)
Seat 6: TalentedTom ($1748.25 in chips)
Hadican: posts small blind $3
djalminha: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [Ts Js]
TalentedTom: raises $12 to $18
NutsInYoEye: calls $18
jmc2536: calls $18
Radioheads: folds
Hadican: calls $15
djalminha: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2c 4s]
Hadican: checks
djalminha: checks
TalentedTom: bets $60
NutsInYoEye: raises $120 to $180
jmc2536: folds
Hadican: folds
djalminha: folds
TalentedTom: folds
TalentedTom said, "errr"
NutsInYoEye collected $207 from pot
NutsInYoEye: doesn't show hand
TalentedTom said, "niec set of 4's"
TalentedTom said, ""
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $210 | Rake $3
Board [Tc 2c 4s]
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye collected ($207)
Seat 2: jmc2536 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Radioheads (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Hadican (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: djalminha (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: TalentedTom folded on the Flop

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

In short -

I always know what cards you have but you don't have a clue as to what I'm holding.

POKERSTARS GAME #6356797272: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2006/09/20 - 17:04:39 (ET)
Table 'Cyrene II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye ($600 in chips)
Seat 2: jmc2536 ($741.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Radioheads ($591 in chips)
Seat 4: Hadican ($783.90 in chips)
Seat 5: djalminha ($979.85 in chips)
Seat 6: TalentedTom ($1748.25 in chips)
Hadican: posts small blind $3
djalminha: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [Ts Js]
TalentedTom: raises $12 to $18
NutsInYoEye: calls $18
jmc2536: calls $18
Radioheads: folds
Hadican: calls $15
djalminha: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2c 4s]
Hadican: checks
djalminha: checks
TalentedTom: bets $60
NutsInYoEye: raises $120 to $180
jmc2536: folds
Hadican: folds
djalminha: folds
TalentedTom: folds
TalentedTom said, "errr"
NutsInYoEye collected $207 from pot
NutsInYoEye: doesn't show hand
TalentedTom said, "niec set of 4's"
TalentedTom said, ""
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $210 | Rake $3
Board [Tc 2c 4s]
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye collected ($207)
Seat 2: jmc2536 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Radioheads (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Hadican (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: djalminha (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: TalentedTom folded on the Flop

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

In short -

I always know what cards you have but you don't have a clue as to what I'm holding.

POKERSTARS GAME #6356797272: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2006/09/20 - 17:04:39 (ET)
Table 'Cyrene II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye ($600 in chips)
Seat 2: jmc2536 ($741.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Radioheads ($591 in chips)
Seat 4: Hadican ($783.90 in chips)
Seat 5: djalminha ($979.85 in chips)
Seat 6: TalentedTom ($1748.25 in chips)
Hadican: posts small blind $3
djalminha: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [Ts Js]
TalentedTom: raises $12 to $18
NutsInYoEye: calls $18
jmc2536: calls $18
Radioheads: folds
Hadican: calls $15
djalminha: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2c 4s]
Hadican: checks
djalminha: checks
TalentedTom: bets $60
NutsInYoEye: raises $120 to $180
jmc2536: folds
Hadican: folds
djalminha: folds
TalentedTom: folds
TalentedTom said, "errr"
NutsInYoEye collected $207 from pot
NutsInYoEye: doesn't show hand
TalentedTom said, "niec set of 4's"
TalentedTom said, ""
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $210 | Rake $3
Board [Tc 2c 4s]
Seat 1: NutsInYoEye collected ($207)
Seat 2: jmc2536 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Radioheads (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Hadican (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: djalminha (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: TalentedTom folded on the Flop

I laughed!

lol
nice one

Tom's style of play works great at this level no doubt. For tom's sake I wouldn't suggest it at any higher than 3/6... People aren't as willing to give their money away with AA/KK and are well enough aware of draws to make this style of play not so lucrative....

Originally Posted by Elexshun

Tom's style of play works great at this level no doubt. For tom's sake I wouldn't suggest it at any higher than 3/6... People aren't as willing to give their money away with AA/KK and are well enough aware of draws to make this style of play not so lucrative....

If you've seen TalentedTom play recently he doesn't play like this at all. He's is always playing 3/6 6-max on Stars and is actually pretty nitty.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Originally Posted by Elexshun

Tom's style of play works great at this level no doubt. For tom's sake I wouldn't suggest it at any higher than 3/6... People aren't as willing to give their money away with AA/KK and are well enough aware of draws to make this style of play not so lucrative....

If you've seen TalentedTom play recently he doesn't play like this at all. He's is always playing 3/6 6-max on Stars and is actually pretty nitty. Y

I guess u figured out his hh posting patterns.

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Originally Posted by Elexshun

Tom's style of play works great at this level no doubt. For tom's sake I wouldn't suggest it at any higher than 3/6... People aren't as willing to give their money away with AA/KK and are well enough aware of draws to make this style of play not so lucrative....

If you've seen TalentedTom play recently he doesn't play like this at all. He's is always playing 3/6 6-max on Stars and is actually pretty nitty. Y

I guess u figured out his hh posting patterns.

Ha... I dunno why that random "Y" is at the end.

running good isn't representative of playing good.