NL10 - line checks / thoughts

Hand 1:
This spot felt really really borderline given the action but I didn't think I could afford not to play as is. The guy who made it $2.80 pre was basically all-in and had shoved pre into all kinds of pots in about 10/50 hands while making no other type of raise. I was hoping to call behind and have the other two fellows fold and I can just be in vs the short stack who was effectively all in.

The last guy raised it up and at this point I could fold but his line makes no sense as almost no one ever plays JJ+ AK like this... I suppose 99 and TT is kicking my ass here, but I don't think most players suddenly decide to raise 99/TT if they didn't raise it the first go around. That is more a thought on what he doesn't have, but my thought was that his line is pretty often someone donking around with a less than stellar hand.

Less than 50 hands on both players -- guy who took strange line was slightly more loose than average preflop.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($8.30)
SB ($10)
BB ($2.90)
Hero (UTG) ($11.40)
MP ($10.25)
CO ($10.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8, 8
Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, CO calls $0.30, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, BB raises $2.80 (All-In), Hero calls $2.60, 1 fold, SB raises $5.80, Hero raises $8.40, SB calls $3.90 (All-In)

Flop: ($23.20) A, K, 5 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($23.20) 2 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($23.20) J (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $23.20

Hand 2:
No reads on this guy, not many hands, I just sat down basically. I guess my only question here is whether my line makes sense from a value perspective vs. risk. He is unknown so my thoughts were a 2 is not usually in anyones range here except possibly 22 that would get slowplayed.

Any other way to play this that is better?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($22.05)
Hero (BB) ($9.35)
UTG ($4.70)
MP ($16.60)
Button ($7.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
2 folds, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, Button calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.05) 2, 2, K (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, Button raises $2, Hero raises $8.05 (All-In), Button calls $5.15 (All-In)

Turn: ($15.35) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($15.35) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $15.35

Hand 3:
Guys stats were pretty loose over not so many hands, like 30% steals with 35%+ VPIP and 30% pfr

This is probably a bad spot to do something like this, but meh. First of all I am trying to call less from the SB with hands like these. I felt like he was betting this flop almost all the time regardless of his hand. I thought that if I check raised it would look pretty strong and he'd fold a lot of hands.

Once he calls the flop I am unsure of how to proceed but I still felt like he had to be weak here so I basically put him all in. Meh. Horrible spot / horrible line / horrible everything? Oh and if it matters, I just accidently bet not enough to put him all in on the turn. I click too fast.


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($25.60)
UTG ($6.85)
Button ($12.30)
Hero (SB) ($11.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, K
UTG bets $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.20) 5, J, 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.60, Hero raises $1.80, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.20

Turn: ($4.80) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG raises $4.65 (All-In), Hero calls $0.65

River: ($14.10) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $14.10

Hand 3:

Not much to say here, I had just sat down. Should I bet the turn? I didn't think there was much value in that, since it is a horrible board for any thing I'm beating to keep playing on, etc.

On the river, I just felt checking behind again was too weak since at this point It didn't seem extremely likely he had a flush given his line, but it occoured to me that I am losing too much on the river lately and this might be a spot to just check. ???

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($5.15)
MP ($10.35)
CO ($2.30)
Hero (Button) ($10.10)
SB ($2.70)
BB ($10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4, A
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.40) 2, 3, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.20, Hero raises $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.40) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.40) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.90, UTG raises $1.80, Hero folds

Total pot: $4.20

Hand 4:

I think this is horrendous. I think probably correct up to turn. Turn what should I do? check / fold , bet / fold? or as played?

I convicned myself not to fold because he could have huge draw and I dont wanna make bad fold, but I felt like I was beat as soon as he raised.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($23.60)
Button ($8.70)
SB ($6.20)
BB ($9.80)
UTG ($12.25)
Hero (MP) ($10.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30, Button calls $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.25) 5, 3, 9 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, CO calls $1, 2 folds

Turn: ($3.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO raises $6, Hero raises $6.40 (All-In), CO calls $2.90

River: ($21.05) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $21.05


Ok thanks for help.

I'm not expert. I'm sure that some of the better players will offer good advice.

My thoughts though, first of all you aren't really using ranges are you ?

The first hand you couldn't really have played much worse in my opinion. I think I would have folded after the BB Squeeze.

Second hand, there is a good article in the beginners digest called something like, you can't make someone fold.

1. If BB is shoving like any pair and a bunch of random aces and like you seem to think then calling the shove is perhaps okay, but folding is certainly fine as well since we don't beat all that many pairs. This line from SB looks extremely strong and very much like his range could be weighted towards AA + KK although it probably includes like [JJ-AA AK] easy fold here since we don't haz odds to set mine or anything and are likely crushed way too often when we ship it in.

2. Looks ok, he'll ship a K and a flush draw pretty often. Given this is a BB vs BU spot though he can be full of shit here quite a lot and we should stack a K anyways, so I might just call here since we have Ah (reduced the amount of fds he can have and makes us less worried about shipping it on h turns.) Yah I'd let him keep bluffing and ship it in on a later street.

3. Preflop is marginal I'd fold since we're dominated by a good amount of stuff he's opening and are oop. Flop is fine, we pick up the pot a fair amount and fold out overs and pairs that are beating us. On the turn it depends how much FE we have. If we have 0 then betting is obviously worse. But I think he can still fold sometimes here when he has 88 and crap like that. We have a good amount of equity vs the range he's calling it off with so this is okay.

3. (2) I actually like the limp behind in this spot since this half stack prob wont fold preflop or to c bets as much as we'd like so isoing is kind meh I think although probably fine. We should ALWAYS bet this turn. Just because flush card has fallen doesn't mean we can't still get value from sets, overpairs and pair + spade combos etc. We need to protect here and are missing value from a ton of his range by checking. Yeah if you check back river you'd be reatdred lol, probably fold when he c/r since we essentially haz a bluff catcher. He probably doesn't do this with a 2 all that often. Bet the turn though for sure and consider folding to a raise since it's very often a flush in this spot imo (if he raises)

4. I can bet/fold this turn quite happily, again all we really beat is a bluff or a retarded top pair type hand. I think he's setted up here easily enough of the time for us to fold. You've bet the flop 4 handed on a board that misses a lot of your range, so your likely to get more respect and not get bluffed on the turn. It's a lol easy fold on the tiurn actually. If he cals the turn I'm value betting the river aswell because that's how you beat passive typical 10NL donks - value town them and fold marginal stuff when they take scary ass lines like in this hand.

Originally Posted by Carroters

1. If BB is shoving like any pair and a bunch of random aces and like you seem to think then calling the shove is perhaps okay, but folding is certainly fine as well since we don't beat all that many pairs. This line from SB looks extremely strong and very much like his range could be weighted towards AA + KK although it probably includes like [JJ-AA AK] easy fold here since we don't haz odds to set mine or anything and are likely crushed way too often when we ship it in.

2. Looks ok, he'll ship a K and a flush draw pretty often. Given this is a BB vs BU spot though he can be full of shit here quite a lot and we should stack a K anyways, so I might just call here since we have Ah (reduced the amount of fds he can have and makes us less worried about shipping it on h turns.) Yah I'd let him keep bluffing and ship it in on a later street.

3. Preflop is marginal I'd fold since we're dominated by a good amount of stuff he's opening and are oop. Flop is fine, we pick up the pot a fair amount and fold out overs and pairs that are beating us. On the turn it depends how much FE we have. If we have 0 then betting is obviously worse. But I think he can still fold sometimes here when he has 88 and crap like that. We have a good amount of equity vs the range he's calling it off with so this is okay.

3. (2) I actually like the limp behind in this spot since this half stack prob wont fold preflop or to c bets as much as we'd like so isoing is kind meh I think although probably fine. We should ALWAYS bet this turn. Just because flush card has fallen doesn't mean we can't still get value from sets, overpairs and pair + spade combos etc. We need to protect here and are missing value from a ton of his range by checking. Yeah if you check back river you'd be reatdred lol, probably fold when he c/r since we essentially haz a bluff catcher. He probably doesn't do this with a 2 all that often. Bet the turn though for sure and consider folding to a raise since it's very often a flush in this spot imo (if he raises)

4. I can bet/fold this turn quite happily, again all we really beat is a bluff or a retarded top pair type hand. I think he's setted up here easily enough of the time for us to fold. You've bet the flop 4 handed on a board that misses a lot of your range, so your likely to get more respect and not get bluffed on the turn. It's a lol easy fold on the tiurn actually. If he cals the turn I'm value betting the river aswell because that's how you beat passive typical 10NL donks - value town them and fold marginal stuff when they take scary ass lines like in this hand.

I agree with you about everything except maybe hand 1. I don't see why you think SB line = that range... I raised UTG, CO called... Why would any sane person slow play a big hand OOP vs 3 players (once the BB calls behind often) and kill all their value. Especially since I raised UTG, if he has AA/KK he has to at least 3 bet me once the CO calls.

This is 10NL he doesn't have to do anything. I see people at 25 and 50NL "slowplaying" AA KK AK some times multiway oop like this (although not often). Given that he's an unknwon and this is 10NL, I think it's far more likely he's doing this than bluffing. Do you think he's trying to bluff you off your preflop holding after you've just called off 20BBs in a protected potl? That's a far more ludicrous proposal in my book then him being a tard with a premium hand. If he doesn't have a nut range like [AA-QQ AK] he's likely back raising here with stuff like 99-JJ AQ that he just can't bring himself to fold and doesn't known what else to do with. You don't actually fair much better against at this range at all, it's still the same proportion of overpairs to overcards.

You have 88 and have to at least have seen him take retarded bluffy spewbag lines that noone ever really takes with air before you can just stick 100bbs in with 88 preflop.

I think if he's being a tard with worse pairs than 88 or 89s and weak stuff like that he's far more likely to just shove and try to make you fold. The fact that this is a protected pot he can never win preflop makes it even more unlikely he's ever going to be bluffing here.

I agree it's a terrible way for him to play AA KK etc, but him having air here makes even less sense unless you know him to be terrible and very spewy preflop. Whatever he has he's bad and bad players are not bound to follow any code of what they may or may not "have" to do.

Oh and assuming the players at your stake are thinking about the same things you are is often a mistake, you'd be suprised how fish can completely ignore the absolute fundementals of poker. That's really what I'm getting at when I say he doesn't have to 3-bet preflop etc with AA or whatever. He should yes, but until you've seen him to be at least semi solid you can't assume he knows this.

Fair enough. I guess this is more so that I shouldn't make these kind of assumptions for 100 BB without a pretty solid read because even if I'm right the edge is so borderline that I have to be right a lot and if he has TT+ ever it is bad. Thanks for advice.

Results if anyone cares:
Hand 1 - BB has A9o SB has AQo
Hand 2 - He has A2o
Hand 3 - He has 99
Hand 4 - No showdown
Hand 5 - He has 33