Please this is why I hate J10 suited 98 suited.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1040889808: Table Stewart (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:58:26 ET - 2006/09/26
Seat 1: holdemace ($14.50)
Seat 2: quadsrule ($44.40)
Seat 3: Ripjohngotti ($247.05)
Seat 4: tlanebaker ($20)
Seat 5: All-In-Attack ($48.05)
Seat 6: Sir Mick Jagger ($23.50)
All-In-Attack posts the small blind of $0.25
Sir Mick Jagger posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ripjohngotti [Jd Td]
holdemace raises to $1.75
quadsrule folds
Ripjohngotti calls $1.75
All-In-Attack calls $1.50
Sir Mick Jagger folds
*** FLOP *** [8h 9h Jc]
All-In-Attack checks
holdemace bets $12.75, and is all in
Ripjohngotti calls $12.75
All-In-Attack folds
holdemace shows [As Ah]
Ripjohngotti shows [Jd Td]
*** TURN *** [8h 9h Jc] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [8h 9h Jc 8s] [6d]
holdemace shows two pair, Aces and Eights
Ripjohngotti shows two pair, Jacks and Eights
holdemace wins the pot ($29.70) with two pair, Aces and Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $31.25 | Rake $1.55
Board: [8h 9h Jc 8s 6d]
Seat 1: holdemace showed [As Ah] and won ($29.70) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 2: quadsrule didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Ripjohngotti (button) showed [Jd Td] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Eights
Seat 4: tlanebaker is sitting out
Seat 5: All-In-Attack (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Sir Mick Jagger (big blind) folded before the Flop



All I got is a freakin draw that comes 1 out of 3 times is this even profitable to make this call?


Getting 2 to 1 on money? Winning it 1 out of 3? Will i break even?

Lets face it these guys wont fold AA KK QQ preflop so these hands are more trouble then good unless you hit a freakin miracle.

I never know what to do with them, play it passive or play it aggrressive with a draw, is like 30/60 leaning towards passive.


I guess I call raises from the wrong opponents?


Grrrrrrrrrr

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

Lets face it these guys wont fold AA KK QQ preflop so these hands are more trouble then good unless you hit a freakin miracle.

Very insightful. You better make a note on these players.

Board: 8h 9h Jc
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.0303 % 41.92% 01.11% { JdTd }
Hand 2: 56.9697 % 55.86% 01.11% { AhAs }

Flop is a pretty easy call given that you have 13 outs vs an overpair. You may even be ahead some of the time. The problem with this hand is preflop. The villains stack is so short, you're not getting the implied odds you need to call with JTs. Fold it. If villain had a full stack, then the call is fine.

Also, pls stop posting the results, if u want unbaised comments.

Im seriously gonna start giving myself about 1/3 the percentage of winning.


Really. These are basic results, basic hand situation, thats why I posted it given a situation.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

Lets face it these guys wont fold AA KK QQ preflop so these hands are more trouble then good unless you hit a freakin miracle.

Very insightful. You better make a note on these players.

You'd have notes on about 1/2 of this forum.

lmao...

that was funny and then you come back with that?

if you changed it to postflop that would be a decent statement and not such a duh.

JTs is a nice hand to see acheap flop with not to call a PFR with

In addition, on the flop when villian pushed you knew you are behind, but with a drawing hand. I dont think it is a bad decisino to call, but you knowyou are about 50% or a bit less to win vs overpair or TPTK

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

Lets face it these guys wont fold AA KK QQ preflop so these hands are more trouble then good unless you hit a freakin miracle.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

awesome...

do you know ANYONE that would fold these preflop.

you get better and better!!

relax I meant post.

you can always fold them preflop if you are getting into trouble

Why are you even complaining about this hand.

J10s and 98s are i beleive two of the top 3 hands possible to bust up AA or KK (3rd is 109s)

You got your money all in with a big pair and a draw, the 3rd best situation you could hope for.

I would say top two would be trips/boat or top 2 pair.

If you are complaining about why these hands suck, its time to reevaulate your entire game.

Thats why most of the people on this forum seem to hate on you - you complain about everyday hands that you sometimes play right, and when you do play them right and lose you say how much you hate the play, or how unfair it is, or how dumb the other guy was.

Stop complaining. take the beat. You were never ahead. thats why its poker.

get better.

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

J10s and 98s are i beleive two of the top 3 hands possible to bust up AA or KK (3rd is 109s)

Top 10 hands to bust up AA/KK:
22
33
44
55
66
77
88
99
TT
JJ

It's not even close either.

uh, Fnord, you couldn't be any more wrong.

Proof:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1337569 78.12 368978 21.55 5757 0.34 0.783
Jc Tc 368978 21.55 1337569 78.12 5757 0.34 0.2

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1322321 77.22 384768 22.47 5215 0.30 0.774
9c 8c 384768 22.47 1322321 77.22 5215 0.30 0.226



cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1414342 82.60 288148 16.83 9814 0.57 0.829
2s 2h 288148 16.83 1414342 82.60 9814 0.57 0.171

here it is with 4 diff suites:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1392072 81.30 311672 18.20 8560 0.50 0.815
2c 2d 311672 18.20 1392072 81.30 8560 0.50 0.185

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1370736 80.05 336724 19.66 4844 0.28 0.802
9c 9d 336724 19.66 1370736 80.05 4844 0.28 0.198

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ah 1388072 81.06 317694 18.55 6538 0.38 0.813
Kc Kd 317694 18.55 1388072 81.06 6538 0.38 0.187

Those figures are assuming you get to see all five cards. You're more likely to have AA smoked on the flop with a pocket pair - with JTs you'll often flop a draw.

true, but i was saying preflop, those are the most likely hands to bust up AA KK.

I was told I was wrong, and was showing mathematically that i was right.

And hold em is a 5 card game remember, it doesnt have to always go all in on the flop to crack a big pair.

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

And hold em is a 5 card game remember, it doesnt have to always go all in on the flop to crack a big pair.

Except AA/KK have this annoying habbit of (re)raising pre-flop and putting in lots of money on the flop or turn reguardless of if their hand figures to be any good or not.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

And hold em is a 5 card game remember, it doesnt have to always go all in on the flop to crack a big pair.

Except AA/KK have this annoying habbit of (re)raising pre-flop and putting in lots of money on the flop or turn reguardless of if their hand figures to be any good or not.

Ok, thats fine.

I said that the best hands to bust it up were j10s, etc. and i showed i was right. thats what i was saying. you said i was wrong.

i showed mathmatically how preflop, those are the best hands to bust it up.

i wasnt arguing anything else.

it doesnt matter if you are mathmatically right... you are playing poker... the best way to crack a big pp is to hit a set.

nope, math. i win

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

nope, math. i win

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

nope, math. i win

BTW - The answer to the question you answered (which was a totally different topic than Fnords) is 56s, not TJs or 9Ts.

why am i being flamed for making a true statement which was then twisted to a different argument that I wasnt even arguing.

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

why am i being flamed for making a true statement which was then twisted to a different argument that I wasnt even arguing.

I'm not flamming you at all man. Butif you want me to I can.

YOU'RE VERY FAT OMG WTF YOU SUCK AT POKER LOSE WEIGHT.

ha ok nevermind

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

And hold em is a 5 card game remember, it doesnt have to always go all in on the flop to crack a big pair.

Except AA/KK have this annoying habbit of (re)raising pre-flop and putting in lots of money on the flop or turn reguardless of if their hand figures to be any good or not.

lol....
Or the Scarey as AA playing board is j 7 5. You bet he calls turn is a 9.
Oh no draw set , check /check check/check.

winner 5.50.

Originally Posted by TripsChaos

why am i being flamed for making a true statement which was then twisted to a different argument that I wasnt even arguing.

because the rest was arguing the other statement?