Poker, Girlfriend, Help

So my girlfriend and i are playing poker together online, we play the $10NL at full tilt (only downloadable client for my mac) and have got pretty solid groundings in the game. the players here are pretty retarded and you can take their money.

the problem is that i read ftr all day at work and know that the poker im playing at these tables is technically horrible but its gotta be done to make money. and when i move up in stakes i can change my game to play more tagg and apply the style of play that i have been reading on this here fine forum. my girlfriend however is not reading ftr (she doesnt have a boring call centre job like myself where i get paid for studying poker strategies whilst selling fax machine consumerables ) and while playing mostly good poker she is beginning to believe she has intuition on how to make decisions due to bad decisions being paid off etc, i think this is due to only remembering the wins when you chase that flush or str8 and conveniently forget the beats.

i was wondering if anyone can give her a convincing argument as to why this kind of poker wont pay off in the long run and she'll benfit from knowing why she is making decisions instead of just feeling them, if there is a decent post already here then please direct me.

i think she's got the makings to be a solid player and i want her to get off on the right path so a convincing guide thats not too heavy on the maths would be ideal.
she's not a bunny and flowers girl so you can be quite harsh if u need to!!

thanks in advance as we are playing on a shared bankroll!!!

DON'T PLAY ON A SHARED BANKROLL!!!! I had this same problem with my wife. We played out of the same account and we seemed to be spinning our wheels. I knew deep down that I was winning more and she was losing more. She likes to just play and get her strategy from what I tell her, but refuses to analyse her hands. We have since moved to separate accounts and now I have made $350 and she has lost $200. She's starting to realise that she has a losing strategy and wants me to finally go over her hands with her. Take it from me, the best way for her to realise that she's a losing player is to let her go on her own and sink. At some point she'll realise that you are right and she is wrong.

I'm not sure about Full Tilt, but I was able to get two accounts on Pokerstars after I e-mailed them asking for them. You could always play at two different sites as well.

cheers intgar, i'll see if she' up for splitting the account.
if anyone else can help though i'm looking for a kind of ftr digest just to get her hooked and thinking about her play.
I've read most of the forum but am not knowledgable to be able to condense this for her if anyon ecan take a stab at doin that it would be greatly appreciated or again point to an existed post that could help

Theory of Poker - David Sklansky:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...books&v=glance

Harrington on Hold'em Volume one and two are the way to go if tournies/SNG's are your game.

With ring I would go with arkana and pick up Sklansky's book.

My one-word answer is MATHS (subtract the s if you are a touchy seppo ). Demonstrate to her how odds work, and if that doesn't work, tell her she's on her own.

Also, you can say "okay honey, when you play A5o in early psoition, what flop are you hoping for?" and see how her thinking works. It's possible that what you (and she) consider "instinct" is actually an inherent understanding of many of the key facts about poker!

Tell her that online poker is not much of an instincts game at all, it's a numbers game. Sometimes you have to fold to a bet on the flop with a draw. Don't share bankrolls either, was that her idea?

cheers guys, no it wasnt her idea to share the bankroll!!! more a financial necessity at the moment unfortunately

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Tell her that online poker is not much of an instincts game at all, it's a numbers game.

I find this statement to be completely false. How can online poker not require any instincts? I play 6max exclusively so instincts play a huge part, more than numbers. Do you play full ring or 6max?

I play full ring.

I never said it doesn't take instincts at all, just not much. Of course reads play a large part of online poker, I just think that 80-90% of my decisions are based on numbers and where I stand in a hand after a sequence of events.

Live games however, can be played 100% blind, and you can be a winner... if your instincts are good enough. There are two tells online: 1) The time it takes for someone to make a decision (this is just something I heard and completly disagree with) 2) Betting patters (which is the same tell live). Live, again, includes so much more.

Very true, full ring is the place for math and calculated risks.

About the tells online: The first one I think is true to a certain extent, because I seen a lot of people take extra time when they hold a very strong hand. Like they'll wait 40 seconds to check raise the river. But it could also be a number of other factors, maybe they went to the bathroom.

Instincts are just your brain's way of doing maths without you knowing it.

Edit: with 6max the maths just get more complicated

I think you guys are overstating the difference between 6-max and full-ring. In my opinion, the difference is not as big as most people make it out to be, and it CERTAINLY isn't nearly as big as some maniacs I play 6-max with (I play both).

As far as math vs instincts.. poker is a game of both. And they are both crucial...

it's 10NL. you can beat the game by never using any instincts. decisively. in fact, you can beat the game just by:

following a starting hands chart that is very tight religiously (opening up in LP with drawing hands in a limped pot). If u never cont bet, bet 3/4 pot on TPTK or better, draw if it's less than a half pot bet (to account for implied odds), you will win.

as for the instincts debate, i think there are particular situations that occur frequently:

1. Is my TPTK goot?
2. Should I cont bet this flop?
3. Does he have the flush / I am winning X% of the time here?
4. Can I represent the flush / straight?
5. Should I semi-bluff my draw?

Basically u are taking calculated risks. When you have enough experience under your belt, you will have a "feel" for when it's right to cont bet / river flush bluff / semi-bluff. It's recognizing patterns and something triggers the experience bank - "this situation is like one of those when my cont bet took it down" / "this situation is when my semi-bluff in position got burnt by a CR-All-IN".

Instinct is *not* "I got a feel that my opponent is bluffing" or "I got a feel that my opponent has Q10"

dunno who said this, but "if you're thinking about making a risky, non-standard move, you need to have it crystal clear why you're doing it instead of a standard, conservative alternative". If you can answer that question like "cos my opponent's betting pattern isn't making sense and i think it's likely to be a bluff", then it's instinct. If it's "cos i got a feeling he's lying" or "I don't think he can hit his draw 3 times in a row" then it's not instinct; it's playing bingo.

Originally Posted by IOS

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Tell her that online poker is not much of an instincts game at all, it's a numbers game.

I find this statement to be completely false. How can online poker not require any instincts? I play 6max exclusively so instincts play a huge part, more than numbers. Do you play full ring or 6max?

Reenact that scene in Rounders where Mike says "It's a skill game, Joe!"

Lol, I haven't seen Rounders in forever. Are there any other movies like Rounders? Movies about the grind in poker, or something in that fashion?

Originally Posted by IOS

Lol, I haven't seen Rounders in forever. Are there any other movies like Rounders? Movies about the grind in poker, or something in that fashion?

Pink Tacos 6

Originally Posted by Triptan3s

Originally Posted by IOS

Lol, I haven't seen Rounders in forever. Are there any other movies like Rounders? Movies about the grind in poker, or something in that fashion?

Pink Tacos 6

This is the second time you've crapped on one of my posts. So I decided to do some research and looked at some posts made by you. I've noticed a trend. All your posts are meaningless. You have nothing positive to say about any subject matter. Most of your posts/replies are smart ass comments. So can you state why are you even here? You have 1100+ posts of crap contributed to the board, that's just sad. Humor is always a good thing, only from those who actually contribute something meaningful to the boards. Anyways enough ranting, have a nice day!

My girlfriend is the same, her maths goes something like this,
Chances of catching a straight with JTs against UTG raise, based on gut feeling at least 75%.

Basically what I try to teach her is to assume what other people are holding which I think is something that most of these "intuition or gut feeling" players dont do.

If she playing and UTG raises and she looks at JTs, I just tell her, do you think that guy has something good? Which she'll answer yes, then I just say why do you want to play against aces for? Just wait for another time.

Of course this is a pretty extreme example but the explanation goes similar for everything else.

If she's still stubborn start talking about how if she plays the way you teach her she'll have enough money to buy shoes,.

Originally Posted by IOS

This is the second time you've crapped on one of my posts. So I decided to do some research and looked at some posts made by you. I've noticed a trend. All your posts are meaningless. You have nothing positive to say about any subject matter. Most of your posts/replies are smart ass comments. So can you state why are you even here? You have 1100+ posts of crap contributed to the board, that's just sad. Humor is always a good thing, only from those who actually contribute something meaningful to the boards. Anyways enough ranting, have a nice day!

*sigh*

My posts were so much more meaningful early in my career, but now FTR has degenerated me into a sarcastic lump of skin and bones, my apologies. UsuallyI don't even post outside the commune, but just for you ISO, I will answer your question.

If your gf can read than I'd point her towards SSH (Small Stakes Holdem) which IMO is an excellent boook that explains the atmosphere of small stakes games. In particular tell her to read (pretty sure it's not available in audio) the "Where Money Comes From" section (16-18). I'd also show her the graph on page 47 ("Aggregate Hand Values in EV/BB") which conveys that better hands win more money.

If she is serious about building a bankroll than I HIGHLY suggest casino whoring, visit the House of Cards Forum. In particular, this post is helpful http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24230 and you can PM me (I done me some casino whoring) with any questions or post in there as the guys in that forum are very friendly.

Then once she builds up to $500 and is a solid player, use this thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=26892.

Have her read or read to her this thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=238995#238995

Another poker (not poke her) movie, like Rounders is called The Cincinnati Kid.

You owe my Nigglypuff some fried chicken and water melon . Thanks for your time.

Originally Posted by Triptan3s

If your gf can read ... In particular tell her to read (pretty sure it's not available in audio) ...

Have her read or read to her this thread [wtf man.. no illiterate jokes here?]
Another poker (not poke her) movie, like Rounders is called The Chicago Kid.

You owe my Nigglypuff some fried chicken and water melon . Thanks for your time.

10 points trip, 10 points on the cool chart. nh sir.

oh and your girlfreind sounds like a super fish, tell her that I say, "thanks for the donations, they make my life so much easier"

thanks trip, it is actually me with the girlfriend, but ios's crying about your movie suggestions got an answer out of you which is fine by me. how dare you crap on his posts. i'd also like to thank him for his rounders comments as they really helped with the original problem, i believe he wee wee'd on my post baaaa!!!

My apologies along with fried chicken and watermelon go out to Nigglypuff. Have a nice day.

PkrFanatic sent me a video called "shade" -- it was a rockin good poker movie about card cheats.

Originally Posted by Triptan3s

Originally Posted by IOS

This is the second time you've crapped on one of my posts. So I decided to do some research and looked at some posts made by you. I've noticed a trend. All your posts are meaningless. You have nothing positive to say about any subject matter. Most of your posts/replies are smart ass comments. So can you state why are you even here? You have 1100+ posts of crap contributed to the board, that's just sad. Humor is always a good thing, only from those who actually contribute something meaningful to the boards. Anyways enough ranting, have a nice day!

*sigh*

My posts were so much more meaningful early in my career, but now FTR has degenerated me into a sarcastic lump of skin and bones, my apologies. UsuallyI don't even post outside the commune, but just for you ISO, I will answer your question.

If your gf can read than I'd point her towards SSH (Small Stakes Holdem) which IMO is an excellent boook that explains the atmosphere of small stakes games. In particular tell her to read (pretty sure it's not available in audio) the "Where Money Comes From" section (16-18). I'd also show her the graph on page 47 ("Aggregate Hand Values in EV/BB") which conveys that better hands win more money.

If she is serious about building a bankroll than I HIGHLY suggest casino whoring, visit the House of Cards Forum. In particular, this post is helpful http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24230 and you can PM me (I done me some casino whoring) with any questions or post in there as the guys in that forum are very friendly.

Then once she builds up to $500 and is a solid player, use this thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=26892.

Have her read or read to her this thread: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=238995#238995

Another poker (not poke her) movie, like Rounders is called The Chicago Kid.

You owe my Nigglypuff some fried chicken and water melon . Thanks for your time.

Nice recovery Trip.

Originally Posted by Triptan3s

Another poker (not poke her) movie, like Rounders is called The Chicago Kid.

I wish...it's actually call 'The Cincinnati Kid'. But I know when you watch it, it reminds you of me.

Crap, you're right!