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pondering oop stuff .KQs on Kxx v loosie

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  1. #1

    Default pondering oop stuff .KQs on Kxx v loosie

    Microgaming - €0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

    UTG+1: €3.06 ( 62/34 /100% cbet 4/4 over 20 or so)
    MP: €13.65
    MP+1: €2.00
    CO: €0.26
    BTN: €3.72
    SB: €6.28
    Hero (BB): €2.00
    UTG: €0.92

    SB posts SB €0.01, Hero posts BB €0.02

    Pre Flop: (€0.03) Hero has Q K

    fold, UTG+1 raises to €0.10, fold, MP+1 calls €0.10, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls €0.08

    I flatted oop against this vill because , Im happy post flop against this player stat wise / hes probably Cbetting every flop / I can re-asses without bloating any pot. Good enough reasons ?

    Flop: (€0.31, 3 players) K 6 9
    Hero checks, UTG+1 bets €0.31, fold, Hewo ?


    I hit, c/r or flat?

    1) Im ahead here a c/r keeps things simple.
    2) flatting gives him more rope.
  2. #2
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    a psb is rather unusual for a cbet, he has a TPGK, 2 pairs,AA or a set and sometimes NFD

    i would flat here. c/f heart turn, CRAI Q turn and c/decide K/another card turn depending on timing and sizing.
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    a psb is rather unusual for a cbet, he has a TPGK, 2 pairs,AA or a set and sometimes NFD

    i would flat here. c/f heart turn, CRAI Q turn and c/decide K/another card turn depending on timing and sizing.
    wat
    Last edited by Icanhastreebet; 11-18-2011 at 08:48 AM.
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  4. #4
    Did you consider calling the flop and leading out for half pot on any turn? Easy fold if raised, if called you likely can value bet or get a free showdown on the river.
  5. #5
    bikes's Avatar
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    check raising this flop is an option if villian is loose and bad as you say he is.

    lots of stuff OTF bad people can find a call with that you crush and can get a decent amount of monies in.

    ?wut
  6. #6
    I don't care what the action is, I'm never folding a hand this strong to such a loose fish. I also wouldn't look into the bet sizing cuz the site has a pot button, right? crazy laggfish just mashing buttons, consider 3betting pre, I like c/r flop and never fold.
  7. #7
    Google translate got the words "hereby", "stupid" and "sheep" from that post. That's pretty much it. Romanian gibberish.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #8
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Google translate got the words "hereby", "stupid" and "sheep" from that post. That's pretty much it. Romanian gibberish.
    why romanian? that aint romanian language in a million years. it's a slavic language yes, but not romanian!!!
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  9. #9
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    we have no reason to think he is bad postflop besides stats on 20 hands. my personal opinion is that is not enough information to assume he is a terrible player postflop and i dont think that paying a stack is a good price for a info, when that information could come cheaper.

    if he is that bad and can stack off any K,9,FD, underpairs here, you will see it soon on a better hand or in a pot w/ other player, and with that read, yes, we could assume on future pots that he's range is so wide we can stack off +EV w/ TPGK vs him, until then, just try to get a cheap SD vs him w/o no other info about his postflop play.
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  10. #10
    bikes's Avatar
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    he's playing 2nl so that in itself is a pretty good read

    ?wut
  11. #11
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikes View Post
    he's playing 2nl so that in itself is a pretty good read
    that means he's bad postflop as it means that a 100nl 12/10 is good preflop just because he is playing 100nl and his stats are 12/10 over 20 hands and you know better then me that a lot of 12/10 100nl players do suck postflop and thats why you make money.

    for me that's not enough info. his stats do have some effect, that's why we call pre an call flop, because we think he has some worse hands in his range, but it is not enough info to assume that he is going to stack off w/ worse enough to make a raise/call here +EV, it can be +EV, not saying it may not, but at this point we dont have the info to assume that .
    Last edited by Razvan729; 11-16-2011 at 06:16 AM.
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  12. #12

    Default My intro

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    that means he's bad postflop as it means that a 100nl 12/10 is good preflop just because he is playing 100nl and his stats are 12/10 over 20 hands and you know better then me that a lot of 12/10 100nl players do suck postflop and thats why you make money.

    for me that's not enough info. his stats do have some effect, that's why we call pre an call flop, because we think he has some worse hands in his range, but it is not enough info to assume that he is going to stack off w/ worse enough to make a raise/call here +EV, it can be +EV, not saying it may not, but at this point we dont have the info to assume that .
    being a pussy vs 60/30s will cost you a lot of value. widen your value ranges vs these fish, you don't need to be 100% sure that he sucks postflop. 99% is good enough.

    and re: your 12/10 example, you need a lot more hands for tighter players to figure them out than you do extremely loose players. In 20 hands we've seen the 60/30 c-bet 4/4 times. a 12/10 in that sample we might see c-bet once
  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    why romanian? that aint romanian language in a million years. it's a slavic language yes, but not romanian!!!
    It's not Romanian? Apologies then. Google translate told me it was. Blame Google!
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #15
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    this guy obviously has all kings in his range and prolly thinks theyre all the nuts here give him sets AA and all kings for prolly a super tight range and we're a 60/40 favourite.
    dont ever fold dont wait GET IT IN
  16. #16
    Not sure I wanna stack off on this flop. If we raise him, he folds crappy pairs that he probably continues firing with if we simply flat call. Worse kings are gonna be in by the river regardless, so why stack off his KJ- on flop? Give him rope.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #17
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    Hearts. If and when one drops it will be hella harder to get the cash in if he doesn't have a flush and if he does bet a flush card how happy are we getting it in on a 3 flush board he'll never fold anything he'd call 3 streets with. Reraise now jam turn.
  18. #18
    bikes's Avatar
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    this is not a spot to let the donk hang himself.

    theres too many turn cards where the V can check behind the turn with 1 pair hands that we crush and we lose the opportunity to extract the maximum from his range with this hand.

    ?wut
  19. #19
    Vs someone this bad I like check raising big and getting all the money in. He's clearly going with any K or even a decent 9, sometimes he'll get it in with just an average draw.

    Calling flop will leave us guessing on lots of turn cards, as bikes said he can check back as well with stuff like 9x.
  20. #20
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    btw I c/c, donk here.
    also he's played like over half the pots, how don't we have any postflop reads?
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  21. #21
    rpm's Avatar
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    i'm looking to get it in and i think it benefits us to get as much in on the flop as we can.
  22. #22

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  24. #24
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    Thought provoking, I thought I did the right thing at the time. Now I think I did the right thing, but for the wrong reasons.

    I check raised and he folded.
  25. #25
    dbij fkio
  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by phishaphy View Post
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  27. #27

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  28. #28
    Thats all there is to it then ?
  29. #29
    rpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    we have no reason to think he is bad postflop besides stats on 20 hands. my personal opinion is that is not enough information to assume he is a terrible player postflop and i dont think that paying a stack is a good price for a info, when that information could come cheaper.
    we have great reason to assume he is bad postflop. he is 62/34 or whatever. there is almost no way possible this guy is any good postflop imo. we're not (potentially) paying a stack to try to gain any kind of information. we're looking to get our money in good against a fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    if he is that bad and can stack off any K,9,FD, underpairs here, you will see it soon on a better hand or in a pot w/ other player, and with that read, yes, we could assume on future pots that he's range is so wide we can stack off +EV w/ TPGK vs him, until then, just try to get a cheap SD vs him w/o no other info about his postflop play.
    this sounds like the "wait for a better spot" logic. that's a tournament phrase. in cash games we want to take every +$EV spot we can.
  30. #30
    bikes's Avatar
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    wait for a better spot is no longer a tournament phrase donkament players realize edges arent as big as they used to be. its a phrase used by dumb nits as an excuse to fold without the nuts because they suck at making decisions without said nuts

    ?wut
  31. #31
    Problem with the "wait for another spot" logic is that somebody else tends to find that better spot before you.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #32
    Personally I use the phrase to basically mean a situation where I think it is too close for me to make the proper decision. Maybe that's because I suck at making decisions and maybe it's because it is a very close call and maybe it's a bit of both.

    In this spot I'd be looking to get the money in by c/r I reckon.
  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Did you consider calling the flop and leading out for half pot on any turn? Easy fold if raised, if called you likely can value bet or get a free showdown on the river.
    no . I didnt consider this. I tend to play that way with draws as semi bluffs. I dont think I trust my post flop play enough .
    I need to think about this some more.

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