Proof that TAG doesn't mean good (for wonderland)

Villain is 20/20/2.5 TAG
I guess he thought I was bluffing

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($50.75)
UTG ($88.40)
MP ($46.25)
Button ($54.15)
SB ($74.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
3 folds, SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, SB calls $3

Flop: ($9) 10, 4, K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5

Turn: ($19) K (2 players)
SB bets $10.50, Hero calls $10.50

River: ($40) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30.75 (All-In), SB calls $30.75

Total pot: $101.50 | Rake: $2

Results:
SB mucked A, J (two pair, Kings and tens).
Hero had K, A (full house, Kings over tens).
Outcome: Hero won $99.50

Originally Posted by iopq

I guess he thought I was bluffing

Nah, if board has 2 pairs, A high = teh nuts. He was trapping on river ;p

Originally Posted by nickthefool

Originally Posted by iopq

I guess he thought I was bluffing

Nah, if board has 2 pairs, A high = teh nuts. He was trapping on river ;p

o rite I guess he put me on 99-

I like the way you played this.

A pretty ridiculous hero call by him. If he was going to call a river shove, he should have shoved the turn with his nice draw.

This guy is bad. Half hearted semi bluff on turn, doesn't carry through on river, yet still decides to call your bet. Durrrrrr

Originally Posted by tyrn

This guy is bad. Half hearted semi bluff on turn, doesn't carry through on river, yet still decides to call your bet. Durrrrrr

durrrr is my hero

He obviously put you on AQ. Why let you have the pot when it only costs $30 to get his $8 share?

Wow! Good to know there are players this bad at $50NL.

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

lol well if everyone is donating at 50nl then i need a bigger br to move up stakes. I'd say gl but it doesnt take luck to accept donations

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

lol well if everyone is donating at 50nl then i need a bigger br to move up stakes. I'd say gl but it doesnt take luck to accept donations

No, but it takes luck to hold! I'll accept your gl

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

ahh yeah I thought 3-4 was more standard for a TAG?

he made a hero call, he was wrong

you're only shoving a King, it's somewhat likely you would have raised the turn with one, you never do this with a flush or ten, so yea, whatever.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

he made a hero call, he was wrong

you're only shoving a King, it's somewhat likely you would have raised the turn with one, you never do this with a flush or ten, so yea, whatever.

Good reasoning behind ruling out flush and ten, I never thought of it like that. I'm not sure I follow the logic about why our hero didn't have a king though. What was he hoping to get value from by betting the turn and hitting flush on river if hero didn't have the king?

ive made hero calls like this before , but i'm sure most here will too ..sometime in their career.

Whether this hand was played okay by villain based on his perceived range of hero doesn't matter.

Tight and aggressive does not mean good, and we don't need to try and prove it. All you gotta do is get on a poker table and observe.

To Wonderland: you'll begin to realize just how sickly horrid some tight players really are once you've played enough hands against them.

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I think the definition of TAG is up for debate, but if you're saying that players who have TAG preflop stats are not always winning players or good postflop than I agree.

I meant both "TAG preflop stats" and his 2.5 post-flop aggression because wonderland posted a screenshot of him running a HUD at NL2 and complaining about how many people had good-looking statistics

ahh yeah I thought 3-4 was more standard for a TAG?

I have 2.56, I take c/c lines a lot to keep my opponent's range wide

the reason it doesn't make sense to hero call is that while my flop bet range is wide, my range to continue on the turn is not

since he has the ace of clubs, it means I probably either have a king, a ten, a queen or jack of clubs or a set of fours/tens or quads

if I have a queen or a jack of clubs I will usually have a flush OR a ten OR I have one club with AJ/AQ/QJ
if you say he rules out any boat other than a king or a flush, that leaves me with:

quads (2 combos)
AK (6)
KQ (8)
AJc (3)
AQc (3)
QcJ (3)
QJc (4)

hands that beat us:
2 + 6 + 8 = 16 combos
hands that tie:
3 + 3 = 6 combos
hands that lose:
3 + 4 = 7 combos

he's calling 30.75 to win 101.5
so he needs 30.2% equity
If I ever give up on the river when I call the turn with QJ he's pretty much fucked on equity
if I always shove whatever I continued on the turn with he has 29.6% equity and if I check back aces without turning them into bluffs he has 23.8% equity

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

so do you search for this guy everytime you play? i would. I love me a nice piggy bank.

Why? People are always this stupid at NL50
it seems every hour I get donated a stack by TPNK or JJ on Kxx board
but then I somehow end up less than a buyin up so I guess I'm a pretty shitty player and just rely on people donating moneys

Nah.
You may be like me.
Board runs out AK3J3 and you cant believe he has and stayed with the J3 to beat your AK. (true storyz)

i agree with the premise of the post but have to say that this exact scenario was definitely the exception and not the rule. I run 2.5 AF, and there isn't a single hand that i run this line with on this board. i certainly don't expect TAgg's to always be good or use their aggression in the right spots or pick the right PF hands to go with, but i'm definitely not expecting them to just call this all the way through