Slowplaying pocket rockets

What are people's views on this?

Looking back over my HH, whenever I've slow played them I tend to make more money then when I raise high from the outset. However, is this the right approach, given the other thread's comments (playing pocket pairs 88+).

uh ohz

Here is what I think.

Its the worse thing in the world slowplaying AA , you are giving your opponents good odds to improve their hand , worse hands than yours get to see a flop and now have a chance to imrove.

Hands that dont belong in the pot are now in the pot , the more people in the pot , the more vulnerable your AA is .

YOu need to be building the pot right from the start. and reducing the filed.

Could you post any of these slowplayed hands along with some thoughts and reads ?

Because there are exceptions im sure.

raise pocket aces
it is stupid to slowplay them

edit: nevermind.

limp aces, raise 35s, be deceptive

Sure, you can slowplay AA. But don't come cryin' when a fish raises you in a 4-way pot on the flop and you can't fold because OMG I has the rocketz!

Originally Posted by XTR1000

edit: nevermind.

limp aces, raise 35s, be deceptive

This is what I always thought. In fact, this is what I thought poker was about (and I'm pretty certain that "pure"poker is).

Like the Full Tilt advert says:

"We make J8 look like AA and AA look like J8"
Poker is about deception...

I never said limp with AA mind you, but I'm talking about limping a raiser or min betting/raising as opposed to blasting up there with 5x the bb.

I see the best NLHE players slowplaying AA so surely it's a good example to follow.

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Originally Posted by XTR1000

edit: nevermind.

limp aces, raise 35s, be deceptive

This is what I always thought. In fact, this is what I thought poker was about (and I'm pretty certain that "pure"poker is).

Like the Full Tilt advert says:

"We make J8 look like AA and AA look like J8"
Poker is about deception...

I never said limp with AA mind you, but I'm talking about limping a raiser or min betting/raising as opposed to blasting up there with 5x the bb.

I see the best NLHE players slowplaying AA so surely it's a good example to follow.

It was meant a joke. First and foremost poker is about making +ev decisions and thats pretty much all about it. In order to gain anything from being deceptive you´d need an opponent who actually cared about more than his own cards, a phenomenom rarely encountered below 100nl.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($4.89)
UTG ($1.64)
MP ($7.17)
CO ($2.21)
Button ($0.88)
SB ($3.03)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
2 folds, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.06) J, 3, K (3 players)
SB bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, CO calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.24) Q (3 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises $0.20, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold

River: ($0.74) K (2 players)
Hero bets $2, CO calls $1.93 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.60

Originally Posted by XTR1000

It was meant a joke. First and foremost ONLINE poker is about making +ev decisions and thats pretty much all about it.

FYP.

lmao this is so bad hahahaha

just dont do it ever... well maybe if youre utg 10 handed and you know 100% utg+1 is raising 10 bb, the rest of the table is flatting then youre shoving. otherwise nononononono

The joke is, I barely do it, and I always usually raise hgh with AA.

But occasionally I lik to try different things out.

I'm noticing that this forum is very stuck in its way regarding poker. It's like what you guys think is right and nothing else will compare.

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Originally Posted by XTR1000

It was meant a joke. First and foremost ONLINE poker is about making +ev decisions and thats pretty much all about it.

FYP.

you might want to re-think this statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgLvTZf9i9A

The bit at the end about nerds and negative EV...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrNljsFWQOs


You won the hand amirite?

Originally Posted by celtic123

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrNljsFWQOs


You won the hand amirite?

no i gt pwned cos i didnt raise by 4x my -EVbbz zomg im gonna die!

even if someone could prove that slowplaying aa pre flop is awesome the hand is still horrible... like wtf are you doing on the river? what are you putting him on, exactly AhQh and nothing else?

Based on how I'd seen him play previous hands, if he was on a flush draw, then I'd have known way earlier. I would say he was LAGgy without bluffing often.

If he had JJ I'd have known earlier
If he had a K I'd have known after the flop.

Next time I get pocket aces, I'll raise .14c preflop, force everyone to fold, and win .3c from the blinds.

How silly of me for not doing it in this instance!

I just wanted to use this emoticon

good grief

I was unaware that making +EV decisions in LIVE poker was unimportant... or at least not as important compared to online play. Please enlighten us. I will give you my entire bankroll if you can prove this.

Please don't call AA pocket rockets. Srsly.

Some of you guys need to get laid or something. Always got a geeky point to prove.

The thread was about your thoughts on playing pocket rockets and all I got was a bunch of wise cracks from guys who got bullied at school.

Celtic123 is the only one who answered without a hint of "do I have to answer this idiotic fucking question"

Let me just say one more time:

1) If a question I ask is beneath you, don't comment on it

2) This is the beginners section, thus if you're going to post here, expect beginner type curiosity.

It's just about never I'd limp AA pf in a cash game, I may rarely in certain tournament situations.

Seems like a good place to put this...

$0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($1.63)
UTG+1 ($2.21)
MP1 ($5.55)
Hero ($2.22)
MP3 ($0.96)
CO ($3.15)
BTN ($0.96)
SB ($2.59)
BB ($2.72)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03, 9 players) Hero is MP2
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, 5 folds, UTG calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.39, 3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.32, UTG calls $0.32, MP1 calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.35, 3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.02, Hero raises to $1, UTG goes all-in $1.19, MP1 calls $1.17, Hero calls $0.19

River: ($4.92, 3 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero checks (meh 20bb's)

Final Pot: $4.92
Hero shows

UTG shows

MP1 shows


Hero wins $4.72 (net +$3.09)

UTG lost $1.63
MP1 lost $1.63

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Next time I get pocket aces, I'll raise .14c preflop, force everyone to fold, and win .3c from the blinds.

How silly of me for not doing it in this instance!

What is easily the most exploitable tendency of the average 2NL player?

Why do you think it's bad to just take down the blinds?

Do you know what your biggest mistake in that HH you posted was?

[ _ ] Got bullied in school
[ _ ] Begging to get laid
[ x ] OP can't take constructive criticism
[ x ] OP doesn't think +EV decisions are important
[ x ] OP deserves all the wisecracks

/ thread

I need to answer 3 questions before I decide to slowplay a hand...

a) Am I holding the nuts?

b) Will my hand stay as strong the next street? In other words, will it still be the nuts or near nuts, no matter what card falls?

c) Is my opponent likely to fold most of his range now but may stack off wider and/or lighter the next street?

Yes, AA are the nuts pre (a) but they will loose their equity most of the times by the flop (especially against a large field) (b) and there is no reason to beleive that my opponents will change their open calling ranges just because "I" have bet (c)... 3+ betting and 3+ bet calling ranges may be different stories with history...

Against limpers I like raising, against a raiser a like to mix ReRing and flatting. I have found that quite a few people will two and three barrel CBs with absolutely nothing. OTOH, slow playing Aces can cause you to give free cards when you are ahead and pay off when you are beat.

Against short stack PFRs I like ReR, maybe even all in as I have some chance of getting their whole stack and if they the pot is tax free (no rake).

As mentioned to OP already, poker is about making +ev decisions. If you don't like that or accept that, then why are you even here? Nobody is here to pat you on the back and say well done, if you can't take constructive criticism then so be it, learn the hard way.

As I said in one of your other threads, start by reading the beginers digest, clearly after being a member here for 2 months you have not done so.

Good luck at the tables

Originally Posted by OhioRounder

[ _ ] Got bullied in school
[ _ ] Begging to get laid
[ x ] OP can't take constructive criticism
[ x ] OP doesn't think +EV decisions are important
[ x ] OP deserves all the wisecracks

/ thread

The OP does not deserve all the wisecracks. He asked a question which is the purpose of this forum. The correct response to his question was: It is best to raise pocket aces in most cases because...., although sometimes you can limp them, when....

Sarcasm, "jokes" and emoticons are not constructive criticism. I am sure I am not the only one who is sick of the beginners forum being used as a place for "superior" players to jeer at weaker players.

Posts like these make me want to stop posting period.

Actually the correct response to his question was: it depends. The question is too general to be answered and the thread will end just as badly as the "how do i play 88+" thread because there is simply not enough information given.

@EasyPoker: You need to read through the forum, go through each digest and absorb and think about everything you see. You need to watch the poker videos on this site, and do everything you possibly can to improve your game. Asking questions like this will get you nowhere, and most people wont even bother giving a serious response because the question is retarded. Sorry, it is...and it shows that you dont really understand what is going on.

However, with that said, no one is going to hold your hand and force feed you what you need to improve. No one is going to make a list of things to do and not to do that you can follow, or tell you the proper way to think...because lots of people get paid to do that. So if you want to improve, you have to do alot of self study like everyone else has done. Then when you're confused about a SPECIFIC HAND HISTORY, people will be more than helpful in clearing it up by telling you what they would have done, and sometimes why. If you do this you will get much further and maybe will even begin to see why these types of questions are terrible, as well as move out of 2nl.

I wish you the best of luck in your study.

so if we assume hero is rarely, if ever, limping pre..what can we assume hes limping pre with? play your aces like you would play other playable hands pre..unless 3bet etc etc...just my thoughts.

Easypoker,

Do you think any of the following when you raise preflop with AA and they all fold.
1) Shit they fold again, wtf
2) How did hell did they know I have pockets?
3) See, I knew I should have slow played then I could have gotten more money out of them

If you answer yes to anyone of those you have seriously think about where money comes from in poker. Hint, at 2NL it isn't about being the guy who flops quad aces and check flop and turn then shoves river and gets called. That may happen once in a 1,000 so you will make 2/1000 on that hand, but in general you will screw yourself out of a few healthy 20 cent pots. I will take 100 20 cent pots then one 2 dollar pot. Now if you are playing this for "fun" go ahead do whatever you want and then post it in the bad beat forum not here.


-!luck

The OP does not deserve all the wisecracks. He asked a question which is the purpose of this forum. The correct response to his question was: It is best to raise pocket aces in most cases because...., although sometimes you can limp them, when....

Sarcasm, "jokes" and emoticons are not constructive criticism. I am sure I am not the only one who is sick of the beginners forum being used as a place for "superior" players to jeer at weaker players.

when people rip on you it is because you are doing something wrong, if you want them to sugar coat it ask your mom for advice on your next trouble hand... when i do something stupid and i post it on the beginners forum i want people to tell me im a fucking idiot if its true, not say "good try!". then next time i wont do it. these guys have changed me from a losing 5nl player to making 5.6bb/100 over my last 28,000 hands at 25nl, maybe stop whining and listen.

Thanks to JKDS and !luck and any other who replied positively.

I have a problem with people saying "fucking idiot". I don't have so much of a problem with people saying you are a fucking idiot because...... That was the point of my post. However, I don't see why people can't say that was a bad play because.......

Any educator will tell you that most people do not learn best by being insulted and put down. It may work for you eragotte, but not everyone is the same. The OP is new. He posted in the tilt forum and got told to post a hand history. He posted a hand history and got told that was wrong. He posted the question here and got a lot of wisecracks. This does not seem to me to be very welcoming nor does it seem to be the "fun, friendly atmosphere", which this site says is its aim.

Showing support for someone who is new to this site is not whining.

Is this better:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2)
BB ($2.26)
Hero (UTG) ($4.77)
MP ($5.03)
Button ($4.59)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, Button calls $0.08, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.19) 7, 5, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.19 | Rake: $0

Nice one easyP.

Thats what you want to happen.

Any thing that results In cash heading towards your stack is what you want to see.

Even if everyone folded to your first raise. Its cash heading your way .

There are some very specific situations in which you can slowplay AA, but it rarely ever occurs. Also, it will rarely ever occur at 2nL so just bet.

For example, I was playing live 1-2 the other day and loose guy in the BTN was raising alot preflop and calling big bets without accord to opponents hand. HE had about 1000 dollars and was gambling it up. 1 other guy was playing similarly and everyone else was limping everyhand. UTG posted 6$ blind and I picked up AA in UTG +2. I called the 6, knowing that I could reraise and pick up a big pot preflop or a massive pot postflop.

Yet, this situation is very specific and it still would have been ok for me to raise it up here.

For what it's worth, next time I get AA I'm slowplaying them. Last 8 times with them I win the blinds. Nothing more.

Originally Posted by tpb221

For what it's worth, next time I get AA I'm slowplaying them. Last 8 times with them I win the blinds. Nothing more.

I think I've learnt something from here and my play today. It's about table image. I also watched one of the videos and noticed how the guy doing that played.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. But I've set a table image of raising about the same amount (either 3x or 4x the bb) no matter what hand I PLAY (not what hand I have) and thus, when pocket aces DO come, my table mates no longer have any idea what hand I have. So they might have (say) KT, JJ, QA etc, and are much more unwilling to let those type of hands go. I've found that, once or twice tonight, this has helped a great deal in masking monster hands I've had.

the only time i think i would ever consider "slow playing" aces is if a nit 2-3 bets...

other than that it's raise all the way...

Originally Posted by Renton

this needs more love.

LOL

I had to admit I laughed, even if it was taking the piss out of me!

i was afraid maybe you'd won that hand, then would i look like a doofus

At the risk of walking into a trap...

I did win that hand...

o wow

Well I have no doubt even at .01/.02 you are losing that hand when called the vast vast majority of the time.

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($4.89)
UTG ($1.64)
MP ($7.17)
CO ($2.21)
Button ($0.88)
SB ($3.03)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
2 folds, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.06) J, 3, K (3 players)
SB bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, CO calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.24) Q (3 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises $0.20, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold

River: ($0.74) K (2 players)
Hero bets $2, CO calls $1.93 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.60

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Is this better:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2)
BB ($2.26)
Hero (UTG) ($4.77)
MP ($5.03)
Button ($4.59)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, Button calls $0.08, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.19) 7, 5, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.19 | Rake: $0

I guess that the basis of this thread is that you are being results oriented.
There is always a time and a place to play any hand in any sort of way. However, at the micro limits, its a waste of time and effort to slowplay big hands, in this case, pocket aces pre.
The reason you slowplay is because of metagame. At these limits, there is no real metagame considerations to make slowplaying really profitable in the long run (unless you can single down a particular opponent and start table hunting him or her, making you a pro bum hunter that will lose all his money when he is not playing this particular bad player) so you should basically avoid it.

In poker, there are no real "yes, its good" or "no, its bad" answers. Everything can be answered with an "it depends."

I folded aces pre once, no joke.

LOL
That's hilarious Renton , couldn't stop laughing for 2 minutes

Originally Posted by inV1NCEble

LOL
That's hilarious Renton , couldn't stop laughing for 2 minutes

yeah but since I won the hand it's kinda irrelevant

irrelevant? I meant the picture he made

Winning is irrelevant.

how the hell does this thread only have one star? This is gold, I should visit the BC more often.

5 STARS

Originally Posted by badgers

5 STARS

QFMFT

i can't remember the last thread that had the word "rockets" in the title that wasn't complete crap.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Posts like these make me want to stop posting period.

Originally Posted by surviva316

i can't remember the last thread that had the word "rockets" in the title that wasn't complete crap.

not to forget 'cowboys' ofcourse

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Is this better:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2)
BB ($2.26)
Hero (UTG) ($4.77)
MP ($5.03)
Button ($4.59)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, Button calls $0.08, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.19) 7, 5, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.19 | Rake: $0

Yes.

THERES just to many variables to go through you really have to learn from experience taking years and years or many many hands and games to think you know how to play A A and even then they are only ahead preflop after the flop turn river only the poker GODS know for sure !!!!! g l at poker !!

Originally Posted by linaker

Sarcasm, "jokes" and emoticons are not constructive criticism. I am sure I am not the only one who is sick of the beginners forum being used as a place for "superior" players to jeer at weaker players.

For real, if you think this is the case, you're retarded. If the vast majority of the posts in here weren't generic or just straight up dumb questions, it would probably be different. Search back through the BC to ~January last year when me and m2m were both at 2nl-10nl. We both started and commented on a lot of threads which generated decent discussion. We asked questions about SPECIFIC HH's with specific villains, not this "WHAT TO DO WITH DEM POCKET ROCKETS." Posts like this are pointless, generate no discussion, and just irritate people. Read the friggin' stickies about posting a topic ffs.

Ths guy slowplays AA too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JikHNG5llnM

her too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEwPq...eature=related

Originally Posted by dranger7070

Originally Posted by linaker

Sarcasm, "jokes" and emoticons are not constructive criticism. I am sure I am not the only one who is sick of the beginners forum being used as a place for "superior" players to jeer at weaker players.

For real, if you think this is the case, you're retarded.

I am not retarded. You just disagree with me. But thanks for the abuse.

My pleasure.

lawlz

this thread is classic

lol @ ppl believing it as well

the one thing i dont do at the table is slowplay AA and what u all will find out about is they dont call me bad as s bitc for nota badab is the name taking chips is the game

Please see jym he has something for you.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($5.10)
BB ($5.16)
UTG ($5.08)
MP ($1.29)
Button ($3.92)

Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
UTG bets $0.08, MP calls $0.08, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.32, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.24, MP calls $0.24

Flop: ($0.98) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $0.90, UTG raises to $1.98, MP calls $0.97 (All-In), Hero calls $1.08

Turn: ($5.91) (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $2.80 (All-In), UTG calls $2.78 (All-In)

River: ($11.47) (3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $11.47 | Rake: $0.55

What ranges would you put Villain on after the turn?