Thanks for the advice

Thanks for the advice. Even with my limited B.R. i think i will take your advise and play live before depositing money into a site.
Will read the tom jones book on limit hold em. And found a few good DVDs about limit I found on the net. I understand the basics but i know theres a lot more i could learn. The times i played sucessfully was at a canadian casino (casino windser to be exact) , but since i turned 21 i played about a month ago here in Detroit at greektown and it discouraged me. Mainly the problem was i didnt wait to get seated at a real table and they have like electronic games where the cards are dealt to you on a screen. And flop comes on a screen. No real cards and no dealer. And it was like 4 handed. Outcome wasnt too good. Lost only 50 , and pretty much regreated not waiting to be seated to a real table.
What should my bankroll be at once i do build one playing limit before moving to no limit which is my real passion.

since i won't probally be making it to the casino but maybe 2 or 3 times a week i might still invest a little to an online site to just play low stake tourneys just to help practice.My main game is sit n go's Ive have read quite a few articles on strategys for them. I'd like to sharpen my skills with atleast some insentive instead of playing them for play money. I know the local casino right across the border in canada holds tournaments almost everyday. But the buy in is $50 or $100 which my B.R. will not be able to support. So i think playing the low stakes SNGs , and a few M.T.T. Sngs would probally help me out and eventually when my B.R. get's right from playing limit i can enter the $50-$100 ones at the casino.

Mainly the question was is it a good idea to be studying both games and playing both or should the focus be on one or the other.

My main goal for the future goal is to be a good cash game player. But it just seems the $5 SNGs and M.T.T. is easy money. There's not much time involved.

Do you mean by my return on investment (is that what ROI mean? I do not understand EVERY acynoym used here yet) in Sngs and MTTS would mean i'd be making less money an hour than if that time was spent at a limit table? ....

I don't really wanna spend more than maybe a few days , with a few hours sessions depending on how im running playing live. Which in no way means i don't want to be spending the rest of my time ( a lot of the days) playing more poker. My home game isn't often enough so that's why i was thinking about playing Sng's online. Because i guarentee even if i play 3 or 4 times a week for 3-4 each day live i'll still want to learn and play more when I'm at home , and the days i don't go to the casino.

What about you personally , is your opinion biasied or do you play both online and live?

i'm confused

what happened?

i have no idea, i'm sooo confused

Maybe he hit "New Topic" instead of "Post Reply"?

Yeah im confused to.I think that was meant to reply to one of my other topics. Lol.....
Took double dosage of my anxiety pills last night....probally why.

Stay away from Red Bull.

Lol this post was for me.

Any way....

Let me first get out of the way, es ROI is return on investment.

Ok so stt's are easy money at the 5 dollar level. Agreed. But your grind your nuts off for 20 bucks a week while Jose makes 4x your hourly rate at Wendys, enjoy that.

Do you mean by my return on investment (is that what ROI mean? I do not understand EVERY acynoym used here yet) in Sngs and MTTS would mean i'd be making less money an hour than if that time was spent at a limit table? ....

YES!
well it depends lol


Take your roi (20% is avereage 33% is out standing 10% is fair) then multipy it buy the buy in. thats how much you earn per game, Take that number say 1 dollar (thats 20% roi 5.50 SNGs) and times that by how many games you play at a time (givin a game takes ~ 1 hour)

So if you play 3 games at a time youll make 3 an hout. At 1-2 limit you'll make at leat 4 if your good. live you could probly do 6. Depends on buy ins and levels you play. Highr you play more money you make.

I play both live and online, although ive been playing more MTT's oline asits more comfortable to wait for hands at home. I play 6 max .50 1.0 FL and some 50NL but its not to support me its just to grind bonus and keep occupied. I could not live off online at all. I make all my money live i like it alot beter for these reasons.

Players suck more

More money

More social

You get the money right there

Have a substantially bigger edge

its more fun

you learn more about the game


Poker is not poker online, its a form of poker. Its the math in poker minus the rest. IMO poker is a lifstyle and the game includes the importance of table image tells the way someone shuffles chips, vebal jousting all that live stuff you dont have on line. Poker isnt poker without a POKER TABLE.

I know alot of big time online people will dissagree but i bet they havent spent more the 50 hours in a casnino. Once you start playing 4-6 hours aday every day live you see how poker really works. You see the same players things that happend the day before, shit, week before matter. Your relationship with the players matters. Who won an mtt the day before matters. Whos playing what game. Its all part of poker. Online is like calling tekken and the UFC the same thing, because you fight in both. Just not true, you miss alot online, and if your a truly "good" player i say you give up the majority of your edge when you play online. Not to mention the average 400NL player online is 3x as good as the average 1kNL player live.

Live you will find idiots abundant from 1--20FL down and 5-10NL down.

Not to say you wont find them higher but if any rgular on this forum sat any any limit at a card roomin that range i would lay 4-1 they are top 3 at the table if not best at the table. Online i could never say that except for the best of the best on here. Avereage poster he gets crushed at 200NL.

Yeah it was directed towards you. I think you've pretty much swayed me to checking out my local casino's and starting my dream i guess you would call it that. I've read a little about limit but im going to read Sklansky and Tom Lee (is that his name) book on low limit hold em. I mean i did good my experience playing it but i still know i was not playing what would be considered correct. I wanna have the game down pat in my head. I also agree with enjoying the live scenario a lot more. You can rely more on your reading ability and everytime i've gone theirs been that drunk maniac , luckly last time he was directly to my right!
I only have about 300 B.R. right now but i have things that i can sell very quickly and be up probally a couple grand (diamonds , this laptop , stereo system) things i really , DONT NEED anymore. So ill just keep them in the back of my mind as BankRoll and go down to the casino with my 300 , buy in for 100 and hope for the best.
And ill have extra income coming from a part time job i decided to take. Couple hundred a week.
Im thinking i wanna play for at least 2 more years amateur before i decided to spend 40 plus hours a week grinding it out as a pro.

Like you ill probally deposit a small br to an online site just for when i dont go play live or have free time. I like playing big MTT , and SNGs and wanna sharpen my skills before i enter the ones at the casino with the buyins of 50 or 100.

My mother is still not convinced that poker is skill and all im doing is wasting my money by gambling at the casino. I think i've almost got her convincede to come down there with my today. If i go ill post results.

Thanks for your guidance and advice Shake.

First off how old are you? Im guessing what 22-23?

IF so go for it. You have alot of good years left, if you fail in 3 years youll still be in your 20's, this is the time. Im 26 myself ive been doing this for a year and even though its taxing the worst day of poker is better then the best day of 9-5 work. Not to mention the skys the limit.

Heres my advicse so far for live "rounding"

Dont round lol. Goto a card room, make it your home base, put in min 30 hours a week there. Get to know the regulars and what games/limits the play. Somtimes knowing someone ALWAYS plays 1-2 nl, and then you see them at 2-5NL makes a BIG difference. I think its obvious why. Also if you see High stakes player at low stakes, find out why. Did they lose?. Are they waiting for a table to open? Are they blowing steam? Qusetions like these give you an edge.

Dont move up untill you feel that losing the max buy in at that level (100bb for NL 50bb for FL) wouldent phase you one bit. Also stick to the 300BB rule, although if you have say 250BB for the bext level up and the game looks great for what ever reason you might want to dip your foot in. If you can stand the loss.

Heres the biggest 2.

Poker chips/money isnt money. DONT SPEND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVER. As soon as you do it becomes money. If you have 300 BB and say you win 50BB in a sess, depending on how quick you want to move up, (and if you start at 1-2 or 2-4 you want to move up quick as th skill level will not change much) Then say add 30bb to your roll and 20 to your money, or whatever ratio. just dont spend the roll money, ever...no matter what, never. Its all you have that lets you work, its your tools, its not money. Get it? got it. Good.

lol youve said tom jones and Tom Lee, itsd LEE JONES!!! LEE JONES.

ok lol its calle winning low limit holdem and will help you more then any book out there, david sklansky's books are for more advanced players, you gona be playing showdown poker, aginst IDIOTS! making plays dosent work reall, you dont bluff, ever really. You need to know good starting habds, how and why to play position, how to bet a draw for value. That kind of stuff lee jones will right out for you. I tell you this, if you master that book, and play like it says, you will be a winning player at 36- and down. Period.

Theory of poker is essenatal. I wont get into it. Buy it , read it, read lee jones, read theory again.

Get caro on tells. Most low limit players are litterally oozing with information. Its almost unreal once you get it down, ive folded top 2 pair correctly more times then i can count on my fingers because some old man sighed shook his head and bet.

Ive had old ladies bluff me and stare me down only to get called by bottom pair.

All you have in this game is an edge(s) , things that give you a better chance to get your money in good, you cant controll the cards, you cant really controll the way other players play their hand (at this level) All you have is your knowledge of the math. Your reads. Your patience. Your roll.

Get the most out of all those. when your in a good game dont leave it, stay as long as possible for you. If your moneys going in good but players keep hitting cards, dont leave. Just relax, re buy and play good. Ive come back from losing so many times on this principal alone.


If the table is ver agrisive leave, for one no matter how good you are your varience is gona skyroket. 2 theres a better game somwhere, players that raise on the whole are better then pasie call stations. Thats what we want. People who call till the river with crap, POW's.

1 more thing, before you play STT's at your local room, check out the levels and the vig. They normall suck balls. Total crap shoots. If you start with 20BB, just pass. Play the MTT.

go read your other thread.

with a roll of $300 you will get killed live. no "taking a shot at live," i thought you had aspirations, or that "not playing is not an option."

just saying...YOUR ROLL IS TOO SMALL FOR LIVE.

unless, its a home game in quarters.

So your advice would be put the 300 into poker site and play what? .50/1 blinds? Im really not trying to go any lower than that and if i was to play that low i'd rather just play NL , but is 300 - 500 enough to support .5/1 NLHE?

And to Shake...yeah im 21.... and i have both books you were referring too... on pdf....and i think i was meaning ED MILLER...lol a long shot from Tom Jones or whatever i originally said. I have a 4 part DVD on Limit by him that ill be watching tomorrow maybe....

no. to play .5/1 NL, you need $2000, if you want to stick around...minimum.

if you mean limit...then yes, $300 should be fine, but you can expect to earn less, much less, because your avg pot will be about $8, if you're lucky.

in NL, .50/1 blinds will avg about $20-$25...hence the larger bankroll.

if you cant play below 100 NL (.5/1 blinds), dont expect to stick around long...unless you get lucky.

and, if you want to get lucky...play the lottery...it pays better.

for $300, and i'm sure i've said this already, you should be in the $25NL realm, and thats risky enough. and should stay until you build your roll up to at least $1000.

find some bonuses, and build it faster.