weak tight plays or just sensible?

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
7 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($10.39)
MP ($5.42)
CO ($11.01)
kickass (BTN) ($10.35)
SB ($4.01)
BB ($6.75)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 7 players) kickass is BTN
3 folds, CO calls $0.10, kickass raises to $0.45, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold, CO folds

Flop: ($1.10, 2 players)
SB checks, kickass ($9.9)?




$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($9.63)
UTG+1 ($8.65)
MP1 ($16.26)
MP2 ($10.10)
kickass (MP3) ($11.05)
CO ($11.50)
BTN ($10.24)
SB ($10.56)
BB ($10.15)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) kickass is MP3
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.30, kickass raises to $1.05, 4 folds, MP2 calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25, 2 players)
MP2 checks, kickass ($10)?


check fold both of these?

hand 1: villain is 43/10 over 2 orbits ive been at the table, not seen him continue in a hand past he flop.
for a range I think all pairs all broadways all aces J8+Q8+K8+ 65s+ 75s+ 76o+ that seems like a lot but its prolly something close as I don't have any 3 bet stats i will have to say JJ+ AQso+ that seems reasonable for an unknown I think, obviously on the flop I'm massively in front of his range so should I bet, if he only continues with sets kings and spade draws i'm a massive dog so i don't like that but can I call if I chk and he bets a blank turn cos there should be some bluffs in his range. what is the most +ev way to play this cos it seems to me that betting and folding out all the hands that i beat is more +ev as he also continues wit alot of flush draws that i actually beat and might manage to get to showdown unimproved. than check folding which can never be +ev. and bluff catching any non spade turn/rivers seems expensive.


hand 2: I took my winnings from him, he has only played 2 hands in the 2 orbits i'd been here. i have played him at least on 1 other occasion but no reads/notes 9/4 over 200 ish pretty tight eh? continuing with maybe JJ+ AK. weak tight like me. this hand I actually think I'm behind his range on this flop so actually I'm pretty fine with this fold.

I like checking behind. Both hands.

1st hand: 6max it's a VALUE bet all day long (looks like your 7 handed)
2nd hand: checking back and calling turn isn't bad, keep pot small and get value from Q's etc... still. Betting just folds out weaker holdings you can still get value with by checking and calling

bet/f bet/f check behind any non spade hand 1

hand 2 man i bet here.

Def bet folding flop and a lot of turns in hand one, probably checking behind most rivers.

hand two has to be a bet. he's peeling 1 street with JJ and TT most of the time, only has 3 combos of AA which probably 4bet preflop. He may or may not be 4betting AK and there are only what.. like 10 combos of this? QQ will obviously raise so I think you gotta bet especially if he's calling stuff like KQs preflop which a know a lot of people have trouble ditching.

Hand 1 - Bet
Hand 2 - I check.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Hand 1 - Bet
Hand 2 - I check.

+1 This was my thinking too. Maybe there's hope for me?

Hand 1 - you gotta bet, he's not folding 55-JJ, he's not folding FDs, etc. You're getting a lot of value by betting flop and double barreling any decent turn card (non J+, spade) although I'm probably barreling those a decent chunk anyways.

Hand 2 - check back, bet turn if checked to again.

H1 - Bet/fold flop, reevaluate turn.

H2 - Bet/fold is fine, checking is ok as well.

in 2 it's really hard for worse hands to call a bet here and we're not really giving up a ton of equity by checking back, they have 2-5 outs at most if behind.

bikes covered h1, but h2 fek, I can't imagine what a 9/4 is calling here. JJ/TT? it's not like KQ is in his range. I check & fold to a turn bet, and bet like 1/3rd pot if he checks again

why is everyone advocating giving him a free look at 2 outs?

Originally Posted by bikes

why is everyone advocating giving him a free look at 2 outs?

one benefit of checking is giving him a chance to reveal his handstrength on the turn, we should expect him to bet with all his better hands and check back most worst.

given he's not very good, he probably wouldn't necessarily assume that we'd bet all of our air/nuts and may give us some thin value more easily if we "show weakness" on the flop, where he might be more likely to fold JJ/TT. Against better players this logic falls down and betting the flop is obv better when they expect us to fire this flop almost always.

we also lose potential value on subsequent streets if villain bets a worse made hand or it checks twice and we get to vbet the river.

I don't really understand how we can bet here for hand 2. The risk of a card improving hand that beats us is rare. It one of those times, correct me if im wrong, that we are wa/wb and if we are wa he wont call a flop bet. but may on a later street.

!luck

i'm bet/folding hand one. middle pairs are calling, FD's are calling, and there are quite a few troublesome turn cards that can either
- kills our action versus worse PP's if we are in front on the flop
- give villain the best hand when he has broadways or whatever whiched missed the flop

hand two i probably check because it seems a WA/WB situation versus his calling range. if we ever do get a street of value it probably won't be the flop. plus villain defines his hand by having to play it OOP on the turn. so we can more accurately decide if we can Vbet (and which street to do so)

thanks for the replies dudes.

anyone who said H1 b/f b/f thats what i thought and makes me happy to think Im not a complete dumbass.

H2 I chkd and the turn was an A and villain led for nearly pot what next?

I'm folding vs this particular villain, vs others I might float.

Originally Posted by Roid_Rage

I'm folding vs this particular villain, vs others I might float.

it's not a float when we have the best hand

I prefer "aggressive call"

call turn fold river

Fold nits don't bluff

Touche

Imo turn is probably a fold against a 9/4. I just don't see him ever valuebetting worse. I don't see him betting the turn with JJ/TT often enough for call to be correct.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

I don't see him betting the turn with JJ/TT often enough for call to be correct.

especially not 3/4 to full pawt

people do stupid shit when we take lines that don't make sense