What is your range in the SB?

I've read so many conflicting things in regards to this. Some sites and books will say your range can be huge from pp to suited connects to suited gaps, to Ax etc because it's cheap to see the flop.

Others say your range so be incredibly tight in this position because post flop you are OOP. And this is currently the advice I follow. I toss almost everything that isn't a group 2 or 3 hand or higher (depending on the table)

What is your range in the SB?

What do you think our range should be? Why?

Also obv depends on the situation.

I think this is a good question and one that I have recently tackled myself. I used to be in the camp of opening my range because with just a few limpers, completing the blind does leave very compelling odds to play. However, after several thousand hands, I looked @ my positional stats and I was a winner in every position EXCEPT one - you guessed it ... the small blind. Since then, I moved into the camp of tightening my range. I've come to the conclusion that the positional disadvantage generally outweighs the pot odds you might think you're getting. It's not that you should throw the odds out, but I think we naturally underestimate how hard we have to hit the flop in the small blind to play profitably and the odds to hit it that hard are usually a longer shot than the odds you're getting. Also, when you hit the flop hard, you're probably not going to get paid as much as you would with other hands in position. So, that's basically where I'm at now only playing a tight range of hands.

Also, in Elements of Poker by Tommy Angelo, he makes an observation that might not be as obvious as we think. When you're in the small blind, you are ALWAYS the first to act. Even in the big blind, you could make a raise to chase everyone else out so that you become the button against the small blind, but in the small blind, there's no escape and you're just one fold away from having the button yourself.

Originally Posted by Jason

However, after several thousand hands, I looked @ my positional stats and I was a winner in every position EXCEPT one - you guessed it ... the small blind. Since then, I moved into the camp of tightening my range. I've come to the conclusion that the positional disadvantage generally outweighs the pot odds you might think you're getting.

This is the best point ever made in the BC regarding SB ranges. Playing draws OOP is -EV. I'm not interested in the SB unless I see something I would like to open with from UTG.

I'm looser with more limpers, tighter with less.

Generally trying to see flops with high implied odds hands. s00ted aces & kings. suited 2-gappers with more limpers. 1-gappers with less.

Lately I"ve been playing with isoing limpers that fold a lot of flops (yes OOP I'm crazy like that).

Stopped calling unsooted cards for the most part, but a JTo I'm still limping behind a couple.

I look at my chip stack and if there are any raises. Any two hold cards can be beaten. Even pocket As!

Besides I like to know some thing about my opponents! Going blind kills !

In general, the small blind is a trap, and shouldn't be played any differently than under-the-gun. You are in an even worse position post-flop than UTG, you have no chance of even buying position on later streets (by making the later positions fold to a raise), and you are tempted to play crappy hands that shouldn't be played out of position because of their negative expected value simply because it is "cheap" to do so.

There are two aspects of small blind play that interest me, however:

1. If you have a player to your left who won't protect his big blind and there are either no limpers or the limpers have shown a tendency to fold to a pre-flop raise, it is possible to steal blinds and limps from the small blind just as it can be done from the button. Obviously this is much more risky, as if you get called you don't have the positional advantage you have on the button. But it's worth watching the table action and what the other players do pre-flop to see if you have an opportunity here. (And some players may be even MORE likely to fold to a raise from the small blind because they figure you must have something whereas a button raise might look like an attempt to steal or exploit position with a marginal hand.)

2. There may be a difference in how you approach the small blind depending on the spread between the small and big blind amounts. Consider 3 possible blind structures, all of which can be found in California casinos, and one structure that is found a lot online:

A. $1 / $2
B. $2 / $3
C. $1 / $3
D. $0.10 / $0.25

Note that the relationship between small and big blinds (and therefore the ratio between the amount to complete your bet and the amount that will be in the pot for you to possibly win post-flop) is very different at these 4 tables.

I haven't done all the math on this, but it seems to me that the relationship between cost-to-complete and potential pot size is a very important consideration as to whether you might decide, in otherwise favorable circumstances on otherwise favorable tables, to complete a small blind and limp in. The structure that encourages this is "B", because your cost to complete is just $1 and with a $3 big blind / minimum pot, you are getting twice as good odds on your completion bet as you are at a $1 / $2 table. In contrast, at tables C and D, the blind structure is effecting a heavy tax on completing your small blind-- you are being forced to add almost as much as a full big blind into the pot, so your pot odds and expected value on that bet are much much worse.

Originally Posted by LawDude

In general, the small blind is a trap, and shouldn't be played any differently than under-the-gun.

This is only true from a very limited point of view imo.

First, when folded to you, you can steal the blinds from a tight big blind easily like you mentioned. You're also much closer to closing the action so limping with a high implied odds hand in the SB is far more likely to give you a cheap flop than limping UTG. You also have the advantage of seeing what everyone except the BB has done preflop.

Newer players who aren't confident postflop should be tighter in the SB because playing OOP is tough, but solid players who have decent postflop skills can profitably play the SB as their postflop edge on their opponents compensates for the positional disadvantage.

That being said, a common error many players make is to play too many hands from the SB so since this is the beginner's circle I should say that playing tight from the SB isn't a mistake at all for newer players. But if you're a nit who's getting more confident and looking to open up your game a bit, then high implied odds hands are generally what you want to start playing in the SB. Make sure you actually have the implied odds. A couple of shortstackers limping doesn't count!

If there haven't been any raises, the big blind plays pretty passively and I'm looking at two cards that can make the best hand by more ways than hitting two pair or a full house then I'll play em, so about any two suited cards or slightly gapped cards I'll play.
cheers,
Chad

Yeah if the BBs relatively passive or even multitabling and Taggy I open quite a super wide range b vs b. Usually something like this:

All Pairs, all aces, K2s+, K7o+, Q6s+, Q9o+, J7s+, J8o+, all suited connectors and suited gappers, 10,9o.

Obviously If the oppoenent adjusts or is just a preflop station or over defender I'll adjust. This will be my default range against a so far tight non blind defending villain unless deterred by seeing otherwise.

In stealing situations, I open the SB very wide. Against steal attempts, I tend to defend just like the BB, as long as the guy to my left is tight, or passive, or both. In raised pots, I tend to play it like UTG+1. In multiway raised pots, I'm looking for the kind of hands that can flop big and hold up to multiway action: pp's, ATs+, etc. Like stacks said, it's situational.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Also obv depends on the situation.

What I was going for but hoping he came to that conclusion