Clean slate $10 deposit

I'm retracting this post as I was uneducated at the time of coming up with this plan. I'd also like to say sorry for even attempting to argue the fact to those who were trying to explain to me the proper way to go about this.
I have been doing nothing but reading and learning as much as I can and it is amazing how much information there is on this forum. You guys are full of knowledge and have so much to give.
Please disregard my statements and accept the fact that I had no idea what I was talking about. But now I have a much better insight on what it's going to take to make poker profitable online.

I will continue to take in all I can and hope that when I post future hands for advise I can still get your help

Holy batman, what about bankroll management!??

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

I know the BB and buy-in percentages for a good BR management, but I'm just twisting that up a little bit and working off about half of the normal 20 buy-in rule for now to see how I progress.

lol

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

So as of today 3/08/2010, current br $233.55
currently playing $25nl FR on Poker Stars.

233/25 = <10....

re-read the bankroll management articles and threads. Understand what variance is. Or just re-invent the wheel with a 10buyin rule. Whatever floats your boat

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

The bankroll online however does not reflect my actual bankroll, just the amount of money I'm keeping online and playing off of and the goal I have to reach with said money.

so...
how much IS your poker bankroll?

like, for all i know you are retired at age 21 cos you started something like Facebook and this is merely a trivial fancy to while away your hours and you're prepared to sink a few million if that's what it takes - i'm asking for a reason though, and i'm pretty sure you know why etc etc

lol... definitly not retired at 21... I'm 29 and I am the Assistant Service Manager for my regions biggest Toyota Dealership. I do not have a million dollars to play poker with, nor do I have $100k... But I do have just over $2500 in my BR.
My goal was to play off $10 and turn it into $1000. I didn't plan on doing this at .01/.02, $2nl.... if I lost the $10 or whatever amount at that time, I was only going to redeposit $10 and work off that again. Instead of plopping $50-$100 a week and playing $50nl and sucking....

I am very comfortable at $25nl and think I have progressed well in this range. I plan on staying here for some time while I further hone my game. Once I hit $1k ONLINE I would like to give $50nl another shot. If it goes well then at this point I really want to get into $100nl.
Hopefully that makes more sense?

My main purpose of starting this thread was just to track my winnings while I go and also I wanted to post some memorable hands here to look back on how I played them. I actually have one from last night I need to post when I get home when I hit a straight on the flop and my opponent hit 2pair. It was a great hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

CO ($57.20)
Button ($25)
SB ($25)
BB ($43.60)
Hero (UTG) ($28.75)
UTG+1 ($25.35)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($55.35)
MP3 ($36.30)


Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 6
Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks


Flop: ($1.10) 7, 10, 8 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $10, Hero raises to $28.50 (All-In), Button calls $14.75 (All-In)


Turn: ($50.60) A (2 players, 2 all-in)


River: ($50.60) K (2 players, 2 all-in)


Total pot: $50.60 | Rake: $2.50
Results:
Button had A, 10 (two pair, Aces and tens).
Hero had 9, 6 (straight, ten high).
Outcome: Hero won $48.10


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
204,930 games 0.005 secs 40,986,000 games/sec
Board: 7d Ts 8d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 87.768% 86.87% 00.90% 178013 1850.50 { 9h6h }
Hand 1: 12.232% 11.33% 00.90% 23216 1850.50 { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Ev= 42% <--- still figuring this out, think I got it right
Equity =87.768%

Fold preflop, bet bigger on the flop, 3bet bigger on the flop.

BB has been very loose.. raising pre-flop hands like Q8o, K3s, some A's, yet plaid pocket A's very slow and let an opponent draw out on him before going all-in on the river card.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com


saw flop | saw showdown


UTG ($28.05)
UTG+1 ($29.25)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($43.70)
Hero (MP3) ($16.60)
CO ($26.15)
Button ($25.30)
SB ($57.55)
BB ($24.75)


Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, 8
4 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 3 folds, BB raises to $2.25, Hero calls $1.50


Flop: ($4.60) 8, 5, 8 (2 players)
BB bets $3.25, Hero raises to $7, BB calls $3.75


Turn: ($18.60) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $15.50 (All-In), Hero calls $7.35 (All-In)


River: ($33.30) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)


Total pot: $33.30 | Rake: $1.60
Results:
BB had 7, 7 (two pair, eights and sevens).
Hero had A, 8 (full house, eights over sixes).
Outcome: Hero won $31.70

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

this was probably the best hand I got in the last 10 hands...

I normally would bet bigger on flop, it was more of a trap bet that worked exactly as I hoped

sigh....

gl with your op.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

3/9/10
$25nl
45 mins
11 hands
Starting br=$276.27
current br=$282.77

Dude, 234 bb/100 is a fucking sick winrate.

GOGOGOGOGO

Do you coach?

By 41 hands, do you mean 41 hands that you VP$IPed or 41 hands you won or ...?

Lol, the levelling is unnecessary tbh. I thought this place tried to be different to 2p2?

If you actually want to practise the bankroll managementthat you are claiming , either use the online bankroll you have atthe moment and play within that limit at stakes that roll is rolled for or cut the crapp call your total bankroll your bankroll and carry on playing at the stakes that allows you to do.

At the moment you're falling between two stools and not really gaining the benefit of the test you are setting yourself.

But if you have to redeposit, can you call it a success or practicing good bankroll management? To do what you're suggesting, you would have to play $2NL from $10 to $150, $5NL from $150 to $300, $10NL from $300 to $750, and finally $25Nl from $750 to $1000. Anyone reading this is confused or may take away bad advice or habits because you're talking about bankroll management but playing $25NL when your account only has $200 which is the opposite of good bankroll management.

So, where did/are you starting? Where were/are you at? What do you want to accomplish? What rules are you following to accomplish this? How do you define "bankroll" and how do you define "good bankroll management"?

If you lose the money, you can redeposit it with no extra loss to yourself anyway, so you are employing BRM technically, either way.

It's like, I put 10$ on Stars rather than 40$, but I had the other 30$ ready and available to put on should I have lost my 10. Whether the account is on the website or still in my bank is neither here nor there.

EXACTLY!

except, I'm trying to continue to play off of that $10 without redepositing

:/ Heh, if you HAVE $40, then tell us your bankroll is $40, not $10. If you want to turn $10 into $1000 and end up re-depositing, the extra amount you deposit disqualifies you from meeting your goal because now you're really turning $40 or $50 into $1000 or losing it and depositing more to put you even further away from $10. If you're truly following bankroll management, you shouldn't have to redeposit at all after you jump up one or two levels because you'd have to FALL 3 levels before you'd ever need to redeposit and you should always drop levels when you hit 20 buy-ins.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

When I got to $50 I moved up to .05/.10

You said you moved up to $10NL when you had $50?! That's only 5 buy-ins. I think you should have 30 buy-ins before you move up, so if you used half of that #, you'd need 15 buy-ins using your logic. Other people think 20 buy-ins is good enough before you move up, even though I STRONGLY disagree with that, but if you used that logic, you'd need 10 buy-ins to move up if you cut it in half. There's not one sane, successful player that I know about who thinks 10 buy-ins is enough to move up let alone cutting that # in half to be 5.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

When I hit $100 I moved up to .10/.25

Then you moved up to $25NL @ 100?! That's only 4 buy-ins. I mean, are you joking? If you want to see if you can turn $10 into $1000, be my guest and I WILL root you on, but don't use the words bankroll management when you're playing the games you're playing with bankroll you have. It's possible you might do it NOT following good bankroll management which you ARE NOT, but more likely you won't and the more you play the more likely you won't.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

Ok. soo.. I am following bankroll management, except for about HALF the required BB's I have read on here

If you want to continue this "bankroll management" charade, you need to like, you know, actually practice good bankroll management. Cutting the #'s in half makes it, by definition, NOT good bankroll management. If I have misunderstood what you're saying and you REALLY are practicing good bankroll management, please correct me where I've misunderstood you.

Here's the thing, there are about a zillion players who ROUTINELY try this type of thing EVERY day. They fall into one of two distinct groups: FISH and PROS taking on prop bets or playing out of boredom. About 99% of them are fish. If you are a developing player, it is virtually impossible to do this not following good bankroll management. If you are an accomplished player, you MIGHT be able to do this if you looked @ your largest downswing @ each stake and set that as your buy-in requirements to that #. Even then, it's a gamble because sometimes you run worse than you ever have or ever thought possible.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

My MAIN goal here is to turn $10 into $1000 by June

Good luck, though, whatever path you choose to get this goal. I do wish players success but I also urge them to make sound decisions both on and off the poker felt.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

ah, ok, i can see where you are getting confused then... let me lay it out in as much detail as i can....

Ok. soo.. I am following bankroll management, except for about HALF the required BB's I have read on here. Had I deposited $50 I guess it would have mathmatically worked out better, but with $10 I started at playing .01/.02. When I got to $50 I moved up to .05/.10 When I hit $100 I moved up to .10/.25... This is where I've been pretty much at home and have been doing most of my playing...I have not redeposited any money... If I go completely tilt then my plan is busted and ohwell. However, I'm trying very hard to not let that happen. Now cause of my horrible night I will be moving back down to .05/.10 for a little bit.

My MAIN goal here is to turn $10 into $1000 by June... I will do this.. and if I keep track on here I will be more likely to accomplish it

The highlighted part is not bankroll management , its bankroll suicide. Moving up with 4 BUyins is sheer craziness. Last night showed how variance will wipe out that few buyins in no time at all. That is the whole point of having 20+ buyins for your new level before moving up, it gives you a cushion before variance means you have to move down. The stop losss means that you move down before wiping out most of your bankroll.

The more aggressive you get with your move ups ,the more aggressive you have to be with move downs . and more likely to go bust.

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

The highlighted part is not bankroll management , its bankroll suicide. Moving up with 4 BUyins is sheer craziness. Last night showed how variance will wipe out that few buyins in no time at all. That is the whole point of having 20+ buyins for your new level before moving up, it gives you a cushion before variance means you have to move down. The stop losss means that you move down before wiping out most of your bankroll.

The more aggressive you get with your move ups ,the more aggressive you have to be with move downs . and more likely to go bust.

You're right, and this is the mistake I made last night... I got to aggressive and learned a lesson. So I won't let it happen again.

I post partly to help you but also to help others. Some of us have a hard time reading something we believe to be blatantly wrong and not respond out of fear someone else new to poker might read it and start believing it to be true.

In your original, first post, you state VERY clearly that your bankroll started @ $10 and had climbed to $233.55. You made a point to say that you were going to "start" following bankroll management to help "control" yourself. People called you out on it and then you posted that you REALLY have $2500 and would just keep depositing $10 at a time if need be and that you feel "very comforable at $25NL". I'm just saying that you could be the best $25NL player who ever lived and 4 buy-ins is NOT enough. MOST LIKELY, you're going to lose it and have to redeposit at some point if you keep playing and moving up outside of your bankroll.

For whatever it's worth, I suggest you REALLY follow bankroll management and play $2NL or just get ready to deposit a lot ... a whole lot if you're playing with 4 and 5 buy-ins. And, if you deposit 20 plus times and finally get lucky and reached your goal, would it feel like you achieved it? To me, as soon as you re-deposit once, you fail - you DIDN'T TURN $10 to $1000 and now you're trying to turn $20 into $1000, redeposit again and now you're trying to turn $30, and so on. Why not just deposit what you have or start from the bottom and follow the rules?

I mean, do whatever you want and if writing here helps you, that's great. But, when you post here, we're going to read it and most of what your posting seems confusing at best if not completely wrong. And, don't be surprised if people like myself feel the need to chime in if we see things posted that we think are bad practices. Otherwise, you may want to open a Word document and just save your thoughts there and press save

Jason I see what you're saying. And I understand what you are saying. My online bankroll is not up to what the normal bankroll would be to play at a certain limit. That's fine. I do not recommend to ANYONE to play the way I am if they wish to follow BRM as outlined by most people's "guidelines"

I set my OWN BR that I want to follow and I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm sorry it doesn't follow the trends of most, but it has helped me progress so far. Aside from last night, which was my own fault for NOT following my own rules.
So now I will get back on track for the rules I have set for myself and climb back up to my goal.

I guess I will just not track it on here so I don't have to explain myself over and over again.

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

I set my OWN BR that I want to follow and I don't see anything wrong with that.

If you had said that from the start, there wouldn't be a problem, but when you say "I'm going to follow good bankroll management" and then do the opposite ... well, you know

just curious, have u looked at jasons OP at all? if not maybe have a look and u might have a better idea of where he is coming from.

Not to hijack your operation. But I think a heads up match may be in order.... for the tension is building...... I could be for play money for a deep stacks. just a thought. good luck with your goal.

BTW, as an aside one time back in 2005 I turned 10 dollars into 2200 in about 2 hours. By starting at the lowest table on part and going to higher table every time i doubled up. So I say anything is possible. And I sucked really bad at poker. Now I just suck.

P.S. I also once won 40 dollars from an instant scratch.

lmao... you guys are awsome

I suppose I should have stated in my first post i was working off my own set bankroll management and that probably would have been less confusing. even though when i re-read it i still don't see how i ever said i was using PROPER brm... ohwell...

Didn't get to play last night since it was Thursday and I work late.. See what comes of this weekend

Originally Posted by MasonGamble

A couple months ago I decided to try something. I wiped out my PS online account and re-deposited $10 only. I'm using bankroll management for the first time ever to see if I can control myself and stay within my limits.

This statement right atthe start of your OP tends to imply .....hey I got reckless and went busto , so now I'm going to try and do this properly and use bankroll management to play at the right stakes for my bankroll and try to avoid risking my bankroll again.

ok so that is how bankroll management should be interpreted. Your interpretation is .....

wow I got 4 buyins for a higher level , lets move up and get to the 1000$ as soon as possible and show all these fools what an awesome poker player i am. If i lose a buyin I'll soon make it back and more .

lookup Luckyslevin in the search feature.

update?

doesn't look like hes played on stars or Full tilt according to PTR but the graphs/stats arent pretty up to the 12 march. bit surprising to see him playing 100nl with a 200$ bankroll on 24th feb though.

Well MasonGamble, sounds like a whole lot of drama. Hope you stick around. I'm sure it's been discouraging with folks telling you you're doing something wrong over and over.
Here would be my suggestion. In the future, communicate it as a challenge - ala Daniel Negraneau - $10-$10k. If you haven't heard of his challenge, it's logged here...
$10 Into $100,000 - FCP Poker Forum
If you set out with this kind of tone, "hey guys I'm going to try something really crazy, just recording my results..." then folks may not try to "fix" what you're doing.

Then you can set out whatever personal guidelines you feel like and folks won't feel like they have to correct you, instead they'll just kick back and either laugh at you or root for you.
BTW - if you check out Daniel's record, he did really well until he hit 50NL, then he's taken several kicks in the face. He can still succeed, but I would be shocked if he didn't raise the # of buyins for the next level. And this is one of the greatest players in the modern era.