I have a confession to make…

I play poker for a little over a year now. You know, friend comes over, tells something about ‘texas holdem’ or whatever, teaches about hand strength and betting rounds and a new addict is born. Play money games became boring very soon, won a freeroll for $10 and started the grind at $0.01/$.02 limit holdem. Made my way up to 10nl very soon and enjoyed it very much. The plan was to make a ‘grand’ (piano that is) and have fun doing it. Well, after x 100k hands I’m now able to buy an upright piano as a step up the ladder towards the ‘grand’. BUT (here it comes, the confession)… I’m still playing 15nl as my regular game…

So I’m basically a tad over rolled for these stakes, even after I cash out to buy the piano (750+ BI’s now vs. about 60 BI’s after cashing out). Now, I don’t mind being overrolled for certain stakes, but I realize I’m quite an extreme case to say the least… What’s more is that I start getting bored punching a 17,5 ptBB win rate out of the 15nL tables for over more than 25k hands now and realize that I could be making way more when I move up in stakes.

So, what’s the problem then? Well, I made some attempts at 25nl in the past year, but I never seemed to be able getting used to losing 4-5 BI’s in a day, or more than say $100. So far I haven’t been able to just sit down and squeeze a nice win rate out of it, like at 15nl. So, I always ‘ended up moving down again’ and grind away at a level where a losing day wouldn’t bother me that much, where I feel comfortable and where I’m sure I can win. I don’t know whether I was just running bad when I played 25nl, or I was playing less because of my ‘state of mind’.

Now I‘ve won enough for an upright piano and start getting bored grinding, I decided to permanently play 25nl and up from now on no matter what and see what happens only to move down when, god forbid, my bankroll dictates it. I foresee some trouble with regard to getting used to the bigger pot sizes when losing. I foresee some tilt issues that I might need to overcome. I foresee some trouble to move up further when I should be ready for it, but feel safer at the current level. And therefore I decided to start this blog/operation thingy so I can vent a little now and then, hope to get some help from others when in need, and maybe help others experiencing similar problems.

That’s about it for the first post of more to come. Probably too long of a post to be read completely by most of the public, but that’s ok. Maybe I should ad some goals to it as a reference for my progress in the future:

- Don’t look back at stakes below 25nl, unless strictly necessary
- Start to look at the dollars simply as ‘tools of the trade’ and don’t be afraid to lose some every now and then.
- Move up when 'ready'
- Report here how things are going every now and then.


GG, bye.

Every time you mention 25NL you tie it to how much you could lose. Remember you will be winning more as well!

The players at 25NL are not some sort of poker Gods, move up win more! Good Luck.

Originally Posted by Seasider

The players at 25NL are not some sort of poker Gods, move up win more! Good Luck.

This is very true.. but it would also be interesting to know... what kind of game you are playing (nitty/lag)... how many tables you play, etc. before give you clear cut advice. It does sound like the larger sums of money is one of the factors for you.

If you are playing 6+ tables.. or even 4+ tables.. consider cutting back a few to allow yourself time to think each hand through clearly. Make sure that you aren't doing anything else that is distracting you... (e.g. watching TV, surfing FTR).

I'm not sure if you mentioned above whether or not you have a HUD.. if you don't get one. GL.

check out my current Op thread "bode's still treading" and my old Op "Operation Quicksand." I started the year at $10nl and you can see some of the struggles ive had moving between limits. my new Op especially illustrates this point as ive moved up to 100nl 3 or 4 different times only to have to drop back down.

keep your head up and realize that there is a marginal difference in the player pool at these levels. good luck.

There really is no difference between $15NL and $25NL except the money and your mindset. Stop thinking about it. When you truly believe this you will win playing the exact same game, same amount of VP$P, same amount of bluffs and the same amount of RR with AK. DO NOT CHANGE A THING. Remember your bet sizing in BB's and their relation to pot size.

Thanks for the replies.

I play full ring. Used to play about 8 tables at a time, but now I play at Ongame I don't seem to be able to play more than 6 or 7 before it goes really slow and tables start disapearing or turning black(?).

As for how I play: how do I post a PT screenshot up here? Seems to be the easyest way to show how my stats were at 15nl. Oh, and got PAHUD, but is that adaptable to the miniview of Ongame?

Played a session this afternoon, didn't hit many flops, draws not hitting, didn't flop many sets etc. but managed to win almost a buy-in. Weird though, how different it feels with not even double a buy-in from 15nl. Getting little nervous with every big hand I got dealt, lol.

The play seems a tad more agro then I'm used to, but saw enough players handing over their stack with marginal holdings to think I might be ok when cards start falling a bit better.

re: pt screenshot.

hit ctrl+print screen while PT is on the screen then paste it into either mspaint, photoshop, etc. then upload it to imageshack.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

There really is no difference between $15NL and $25NL except the money and your mindset. Stop thinking about it. When you truly believe this you will win playing the exact same game, same amount of VP$P, same amount of bluffs and the same amount of RR with AK. DO NOT CHANGE A THING. Remember your bet sizing in BB's and their relation to pot size.

I disagree with this. I think at 10NL more people are more willing to stack off with sub-marginal holdings. Although if your winrate was cut from 18BB to 9BB you would still be making about the same amount.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

I think at 10NL more people are more willing to stack off with sub-marginal holdings.

QFMFT

Ok, quick update. Played almost 1000 hands this morning for a whopping $8. Made 2 big mistakes where I should have saved about $32 total. At least no big losses, but it is tempting to go to 15nl and win some more... I'll see it as a long term investment for now and hope things will go better when/if I get the same feel for this level. Positive thing is that I felt rather comfortable while playing.

Not happy with the results so far playing 6-7 tables at a time time I decided to cut down that number and played 1-3 tables max. of full ring the rest of the weekend. And, although I thought that would be a dull ordeal, I have to say it was quite interesting to actually get reads on every opponent at the table. You really see things that otherwise slip your attention when another table pops up screeming for you to click the fold button. Now I only need to come up with an effective system of note taking so that I can quickly see how an opponent plays certain hands/situations, instead of having to plough through a novel worth of remarkable observations...

Oh yeah, and the profits went up also (flopping the higher one of 2 sets twice did help a little ) Almost 3 buy-ins up in about 500 hands.

Here is a hand where I think I screwed up big time, but I dunno. Saw opp. donkbetting and calling huge raises with a midpair + FD earlier (he hit and got the deepish stack). Wanted to get my stack in ASAP on this drawy board, thought about it for a time and came up with a bet/3-bet push safe turn line. Only problem was the deep stacks, so I made a big 3-bet... Thoughts?

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25.85
HERO: $39.65
UTG+2: $27.45
MP1: $27.10
MP2: $24.10
MP3: $50.85
CO: $1.95
Button: $23.30
SB: $26.80
BB: $30.80

Pre-flop: (10 players) HERO is UTG+1 with 9 9
UTG folds, HERO calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: K 9 A ($1.5, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets $1.6, MP3 raises to $3.2, 4 folds, HERO raises to $13.6, MP3 folds.
Uncalled bets: $10.4 returned to HERO.

Results:
Final pot: $7.9

Ok, feel very shitty now. Just played about 650 hands 6 tabling and dropped $85. Instantly closed all the tables after the last hand (see hand 4 below) to prefent any further damage tilt might do to my roll...

I'll just post the biggets losers of this session and end with a nice win to not have totally negative post...

Hand 1

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $23.75
UTG+1: $28.50
UTG+2: $10.55
MP1: $20.35
MP2: $25.20
MP3: $27.05
CO: $11.80
Button: $24.05
HERO: $24.00
BB: $32.35

Pre-flop: (10 players) HERO is SB with A A
6 folds, CO calls, Button calls, HERO raises to $1, BB calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Flop: Q 8 2 ($3.25, 3 players)
HERO bets $2.5, BB calls, Button folds.

Turn: 8 ($8.25, 2 players)
HERO checks, BB bets $1.5, HERO raises to $7, BB calls.

River: T ($22.25, 2 players)
HERO is all-in $13.25, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $48.75
HERO shows AH AD
BB shows KD QD


Hand 2

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $50.65
UTG+1: $14.60
HERO: $24.60
MP2: $13.35
MP3: $48.40
CO: $22.30
Button: $27.00
SB: $17.85
BB: $19.75

Pre-flop: (9 players) HERO is MP1 with Q A
2 folds, HERO raises to $1, 2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: K 4 A ($4, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets $2.75, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: T ($12.25, 3 players)
SB checks, HERO checks, CO bets $4, SB calls, HERO calls.

River: 7 ($24.25, 3 players)
SB checks, HERO checks, CO bets $8.55, SB calls, HERO folds.

Results:
Final pot: $41.35
CO shows KS AH


Hand 3

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $16.65
UTG+1: $43.70
CO: $25.00
Button: $24.60
HERO: $25.15
BB: $15.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) HERO is SB with J J
UTG raises to $0.5, 3 folds, HERO raises to $1.75, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: Q 6 7 ($3.75, 2 players)
HERO bets $3.5, UTG calls.

Turn: 4 ($10.75, 2 players)
HERO checks, UTG bets $3, HERO folds.
Uncalled bets: $3 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: $10.75


Hand 4 Weee, I finally hit a set. I tanked the turn, cause I couldn't see him have a straight (neede to call w/ gutshot) or a higher set (would raise drawy flop), maybe should have pushed then with that reasoning, but fold here?? Sigh, I don't know...

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $15.85
UTG+1: $20.10
MP1: $16.40
HERO: $42.95
MP3: $53.45
CO: $15.00
Button: $47.40
SB: $24.10
BB: $24.10

Pre-flop: (9 players) HERO is MP2 with 2 2
UTG calls, 2 folds, HERO calls, MP3, folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB folds, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: 8 5 2 ($1.4, 5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, HERO bets $1.25, CO folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 7 ($5.15, 3 players)
UTG bets $0.25, HERO raises to $4, Button raises to $15, UTG folds, HERO calls.

River: Q ($35.4, 2 players)
HERO checks, Button bets $25, HERO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $85.4
Button shows 6D 4D
HERO shows 2C 2S

And a positive one to end my rant:

Hand 5

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25.90
UTG+1: $39.30
UTG+2: $26.25
HERO: $30.75
MP2: $24.35
MP3: $28.05
CO: $23.65
Button: $5.35
SB: $42.05
BB: $19.75

Pre-flop: (10 players) HERO is MP1 with A A
3 folds, HERO raises to $1, 4 folds, SB raises to $2.5, BB folds, HERO raises to $8, SB calls.

Flop: 9 8 6 ($16.25, 2 players)
SB checks, HERO bets $10, SB raises to $22, HERO calls all-in $12.75, SB calls.

Turn: 7 ($61.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $61.75)


River: 7 ($61.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $61.75)


Results:
Final pot: $61.75
HERO shows AC AH
SB shows QH QS


So, how bad are they?

That's it for now, let's see if can win some back later... after I cooled down... maybe somewhere in november.

So, I cooled down I bit faster than until november and played a little more in the afternoon to see if I could win some back...

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $40.95
UTG+1: $53.65
HERO: $25.00
MP2: $34.25
MP3: $12.75
CO: $48.75
Button: $12.05
SB: $23.50
BB: $13.25

Pre-flop: (9 players) HERO is MP1 with K K
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $1, HERO raises to $3, 2 folds, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 8 T 2 ($9.4, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, HERO bets $6, CO folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 5 ($21.4, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, HERO is all-in $16, UTG+1 calls.

River: 7 ($53.4, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $53.4)


Results:
Final pot: $53.4
HERO shows KD KH
UTG+1 shows 8S 8C


LOL, NH, GG... AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Kept my cool and managed to reduce my losses to about $30 for the day, so that went good in the end.

Todays graph:



And some hands:

1 ZOMG it's sooooted!

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $24.75
UTG+1: $47.90
MP1: $26.65
MP2: $23.20
CO: $21.70
HERO: $25.00
SB: $26.35
BB: $32.95

Pre-flop: (8 players) HERO is Button with K K
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $1.5, 3 folds, HERO raises to $4.5, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: K Q T ($9.4, 2 players)
UTG+1 bets $5, HERO raises all-in $20.5, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 7 ($50.4, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $50.4)


River: 8 ($50.4, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $50.4)


Results:
Final pot: $50.4
HERO shows KC KS
UTG+1 shows AS JS


2 BB special

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $6.65
UTG+1: $20.15
UTG+2: $10.50
MP1: $51.55
MP2: $45.20
MP3: $19.05
CO: $22.50
Button: $12.10
HERO: $39.50
BB: $26.90

Pre-flop: (10 players) HERO is SB with 7 3
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, HERO checks, BB checks.

Flop: A 4 5 ($1.25, 5 players)
HERO bets $1.1, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises to $4.4, Button folds, HERO calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 2 ($14.45, 3 players)
HERO bets $14.45, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls all-in $14.4.
Uncalled bets: $0.05 returned to HERO.

River: 6 ($43.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $43.25)


Results:
Final pot: $43.25
HERO shows 7C 3C


Gonna make a steep graph upwards tomorrow, I can feel it!

Originally Posted by Flups

Hand 4 Weee, I finally hit a set. I tanked the turn, cause I couldn't see him have a straight (neede to call w/ gutshot) or a higher set (would raise drawy flop), maybe should have pushed then with that reasoning, but fold here?? Sigh, I don't know...

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $15.85
UTG+1: $20.10
MP1: $16.40
HERO: $42.95
MP3: $53.45
CO: $15.00
Button: $47.40
SB: $24.10
BB: $24.10

Pre-flop: (9 players) HERO is MP2 with 2 2
UTG calls, 2 folds, HERO calls, MP3, folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB folds, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: 8 5 2 ($1.4, 5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, HERO bets $1.25, CO folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 7 ($5.15, 3 players)
UTG bets $0.25, HERO raises to $4, Button raises to $15, UTG folds, HERO calls.

River: Q ($35.4, 2 players)
HERO checks, Button bets $25, HERO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $85.4
Button shows 6D 4D
HERO shows 2C 2S

Your reasoning for villain not having a straight here doesnt add up. He had a double gutshot so pretty much the same as OESD.

Is this something that you think you may have missed due to tilt? If so, you really need to work on that because I speak from LOTS of experience of donking off large portions of my roll due to tilt.

LOL, I indeed missed that one. Deffinately possible because of some tilty issue... Ah well, learned from it I guess.

I experienced the past week that I tilt more when I lose a pot. At 15nl I got so far that it didn't bother me at all when I lost a buy-in due to a suck-out and mostly laughed about the opp's play knowing for sure I would win it back. But now, with the pots being bigger and when not exactly running hot overall, tilt is deffinately becoming an issue, certainly when I know (or find out later) that I played it bad myself... Don't really know how I should deal with that. For now I just take a brake when I feel I'm tilting and try again later.Weird thing is though, that winning a $60 pot isn't such a big deal, whereas losing a $60 pot feels like a punch in the face. Maybe a sign that I'm at the right level for now?

I hope at one stage I can just lose big pots like nothing happend and review afterwards to see if I played bad (and learn from it) or that there was nothing I could do about it. And, whenever I reach that level of comfort, it probably is time to move up again.

So, I've been playing some more 25nl/pl last week. I can see it being very beatable and, although still breaking even for the total stretch, I managed to get some $100+ stacks at certain points. For now I think I'll keep focussing on playing good at 2 or 3 tables at a time and when hands start holding up/ draws hit etc. I think some very profitable sessions will follow.

Played well yesterday. This hand I lost a bunch and made it a slight losing session instead of very good session. Also illustrating that the difference between the two can be as little as one card... (and how willing people are to donate their stacks). Normaly I wouldn't call here with QT, but because I played at only 2 tables I happened to notice this guy was very tight. I was pretty sure he had a big pair here and had some nice implied odds with 200+ BB effective stacks. The turn made me worry about a lower pair hitting a set for a moment...but, lol. (Oh, and didn't even tilt very much afterwards, so that's going better I guess)

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $17.95
MP1: $25.05
CO: $52.55
Hero: $62.65
SB: $9.35
BB: $29.70

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with Q T
3 folds, CO raises to $1, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: T 5 7 ($2.4, 2 players)
CO bets $2, Hero calls.

Turn: Q ($6.4, 2 players)
CO bets $5, Hero raises to $15, CO raises all-in $44.55, Hero calls.

River: 5 ($104, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $104)


Results:
Final pot: $104
CO shows AH AC
Hero shows QC10C