Leaks and Concepts

Ok blog #3 bitches, lets see if i can keep this one afloat.

I figure im never really been much of a talker, i dont like bragging, and its embarrassing to fail. So a blog based on telling people how im doing just isnt the right plan for me. So this new one is gonna be based on a different motive. Maybe there will be some posts showing how im doing...but mainly this blog is gonna be a chronicle of the leaks ive found and plugged and the concepts ive solidified through study. With any luck, id get some feedback on it that will prevent mistakes made in the process.

So here we go. First poast is a combination of leak and concept.

Strong ranges vs Weak ranges

I am typically someone that likes to play alot of hands, regardless of card strength...but lately ive been realizing exactly how foolish this is even to someone who isnt thinking too much about poker. I guess my experience with it can be best shown by an example.

Its a FR game, 100bb effective. We open with some hand in the range of JJ+, AQ+ and get called by villain T9

Flop comes T42r

In position or out of position doesnt matter here. Villain hates life regardless. Why? Because hero has a retarded strong range, and villain is buttfucked by it. Lets see possible scenarios

Hero has JJ+: villain gets value towned if he never folds. this is 24 combos of a 56 combo range, so a little less than half the time villain is gonna get raped if he continues in the hand...again IP or OOP. This is because if villain is oop, he can bet...in which case hero calls/raises and villain plays guessing games, or he can check in which case hero towns him. Its just never a good situation for villain here.

Hero has AQ+: What happens here? Well...hero is likely going to cbet. Ok, thats not so bad for mr T9. But it actually is. If hero cbets 100% of the time, then mr T9 is crushed and value owned against the JJ+ range as before, but also gets put in a tough spot later. Suppose villain calls. If hero bets the turn again, villain is gonna have to fold somewhere to protect himself from stacking off to someone with JJ+ right? So villain cant really profitably call 3 barrels. Additionally, all broadway cards except for tens give hero either a better hand or a nuts draw. So hero can just double barrel relentlessly and force villain to make a difficult decision or "does he have the nuts, or does he just have good equity against my range". Basically, villain is screwed again....cuz even when hero is bluffing he has sizeable equity and heros range is so strong that he generates a bunch of fold equity.

Consensus: villian hates life, even though he has 50% equity on the flop! Cuz he has to play a guessing game with hero who is bluffing what seems to be just the right amount to make it difficult.

Ok, now change it to hero opens 66+, any ace, any broadway, and all suited connectors. Villain calls again with T9

Flop again is T42r

What just happened? Its the same flop, same villain's hand, but now hero's range just got a looooooooot weaker. Sure, it gained some tens, but now if hero 3 barrel bluffs 100% of the time villain can call down pretty reasonably. This is because all of a sudden there are alot more combos of bluffs in heros range that villain crushes. 66-99 is doomed, 23s-98s is doomed, A2-A9 is doomed. Hero still has TT+, and TJ+, and some broadways that give him 25% equity...but his nut range is a significantly smaller part now. Position and initiative seem to take over what happens in this hand, but villain isnt so afraid of hero anymore (or shouldnt be).

Conensus: villain might go so far as to snap call/value bet his hand, this isnt tricky for him at all.

So basically, in this simple example i stumble upon finally understanding one of ISF's posts

Originally Posted by ISF

If your range is ahead of your opponents range, you should bluff more often. If your range is behind your opponents range, you should play tighter.

Even someone who just started playing poker can realize that the maniac lagtard whos raising every single hand and shoving every flop doesnt have the nuts every time. Someone that bluffs so often with a weak range is so easily exploited by even novice players that i giggle a bit thinking about it. Meanwhile we all know that the tight nit who raised pre and cbet a random flop (as in the first part of the example) is gonna put us to difficult decisions pretty often. IMO, what ISF is really saying here is that when you have a weak range is that YOU CANT BLUFF, and when you have a strong range you can...because people expect you to bluff when you have shit hands and expect you to have the nuts when you have strong hands.

To say it differently: Adding 72o to a range of JJ+ has much more value as a bluff than it does when you add it to a range of everything but 72o. On the one hand, you add a hand where your bluffing and villain has to think really hard, giving u monies when called and you hold JJ+, and giving u monies when he folds and you have 72o. On the other hand, if you're always bluffing, adding another 12 combos of bluffs isnt really gonna affect anything at all. In fact it makes your range weaker for no real profitable reason.

Thats enough 5nl fish theory. But this combined with some thoughts on playing without initiative, and playing oop, lead me to doing a few things

1) dropped 22-66 from my utg range: Goal: make my utg range stronger. Its true that i drop some combinations of hands that could make the nuts with a set, but its also true that when i cbet on some flop that villain is gonna be in worse shape. Im no longer as susceptible to floats since ill have a stronger range and ill be able to bluff more often with hands that missed. In addition, ill gain value with my better hands.

2) Dropped most of my pfr calling range: Goal: make my calling range stronger so that playing without initiative doesnt suck as much. That first example flipped over can show that villain called hero's bet with a weak range, and how exploitable it was even if villain flopped top pair. Playing without initiative with a weak range just isnt very profitable it would seem as ill get pwned by villains value range, and i wont make very much from hands i beat too often. This obviously is going to change depending on who raised...but having a weak range in a spot where villain has a strong range with initiative sucks

Thats it for now. I probably wont update again till i find another leak or really pwn some awesome concept. If you disagree with anything i said above FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL ME. I even allow flaming so long as you tell me that i went wrong somewhere, mainly cuz its beneficial to both me and anyone reading. Thanks for reading

Only read the first example but this hand literally happened to me in 6max right before you posted (I was villain with T9) and already on the flop I told myself fml and ld0 folded to a double barrel on a blank turn. I was trying to be "fancy" as I am usually disciplined to fold it but this just reassures myself to fall back to the old strat.

Thread seems pretty cool. I'm a sucker for theory.

Edit: Ok just read it all. You seem extremely similar to myself from like a year ago. I strongly believe you'll see better results with your new adjustments. Again, at one point I literally did the same (in 6max) with dropping 22-66 (sauce's advice) and playing ridiculously strong in EP. I've since added them back but my range is still really tight overall. PFC will for sure help you out it makes complete sense to do what you are doing (ISF's advice). I like the second example too because it shows that once you start playing positionally aware people you can call with LOADS of hands and just own them with good boards.

nice post JKDS. one thing i want to input though is that i feel 22-66 are easily profitable to open from any position at 5nl because even though it is exploitABLE for the reasons you mentioned (weak preflop opening range which carries over postfop, vulnerability to preflop 3bets etc) its not going to be exploitED by 99% of your opponents, so i think you are missing value in not having these hands in your range when they are profitable. i'm not advocating complete disregard for balance etc, but i think as long as you are conscious of why you're not open folding 22-66 to these guys, and why you probably will be at 25nl or higher, i think its' fine to open these hands. nice post nonetheless, i'll be tuning in to this one.

Just wanted to say that post was great I'll be rereading it a few times, good luck with leak finding.

Originally Posted by JKDS

1) dropped 22-66 from my utg range: Goal: make my utg range stronger. Its true that i drop some combinations of hands that could make the nuts with a set, but its also true that when i cbet on some flop that villain is gonna be in worse shape. Im no longer as susceptible to floats since ill have a stronger range and ill be able to bluff more often with hands that missed. In addition, ill gain value with my better hands.

I dropped 22-66 from my UTG range halfway through 10NL. I still open them occasionally depending on table dynamics, hell sometimes I open shit like 78s and KXs if there's a whale in the blinds. But overall, playing tight from EP makes life a whole lot easier.

Originally Posted by JKDS

2) Dropped most of my pfr calling range: Goal: make my calling range stronger so that playing without initiative doesnt suck as much. That first example flipped over can show that villain called hero's bet with a weak range, and how exploitable it was even if villain flopped top pair. Playing without initiative with a weak range just isnt very profitable it would seem as ill get pwned by villains value range, and i wont make very much from hands i beat too often. This obviously is going to change depending on who raised...but having a weak range in a spot where villain has a strong range with initiative sucks

This is something I should probably think about more. I'm not a calling station pre by any means, but sometimes I get lazy with preflop hand ranges and call when I should fold/3bet. I've noticed that a large % of players suck ass in 3bet pots. Strong range + initiative = fold equity (unless of course villain is a moron).

nh JDKS.

NH JKDS.

What stakes are you playing? I'm sure I hear you're playing cheeseburger stakes...may I ask why?

I like the overall concept for this blog, JKDS. I'm also not one to brag. Talking theory, though, is another story.

Originally Posted by JayKay

2) Dropped most of my pfr calling range: Goal: make my calling range stronger so that playing without initiative doesnt suck as much. That first example flipped over can show that villain called hero's bet with a weak range, and how exploitable it was even if villain flopped top pair. Playing without initiative with a weak range just isnt very profitable it would seem as ill get pwned by villains value range, and i wont make very much from hands i beat too often. This obviously is going to change depending on who raised...but having a weak range in a spot where villain has a strong range with initiative sucks

This got me thinking of an IRC discussion I had last week with zill4, zwift and CBAT. Ignoring the other issues w/ this hand - bet sizing and turn action on my part mainly - the portion on pf opening ranges is pretty illuminating. Here it is, take from it what you want:

weaktight | Hand | 77 - $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem

and the resulting discussion in IRC:

CBAT: wat is with river gay bet?
+zill4: fold pre
+zill4: idiot
Penneywize: for srs?
+zill4: i dont open 7s utg
+zill4: and i open alot of shit utg
+zill4: like 65s
ZwiFT: open 7s is fine @ 5nl for sure
ZwiFT: u dont have to
CBAT: bet river bigger
CBAT: plz
ZwiFT: but def +ev
CBAT: plzplzplzplzplzplzplz
+zill4: also
+zill4: larger on turn
CBAT: he didnt bet turn
Penneywize:
+zill4: and larger on river
+zill4: buy alot
CBAT: make it at least $2 on river
Penneywize: ok
+zill4: yeah
CBAT: cuz ur betting less than half pot
+zill4: you want to bet atleast like 65% here
+zill4: okay
+zill4: but the reason i dont open 7s utg
+zill4: is because
+zill4: they are pretty static value postflop
+zill4: like
+zill4: you know if you get to showdown
+zill4: youll have a pair of 7s
+zill4: 80% of the time
Penneywize: yes
+zill4: so say you get called
+zill4: turn is an offsuit J
+zill4: now what.
+zill4: pow
Penneywize: starting with 22
Penneywize: where do I open for setmining
ZwiFT: ur calling 22+ from ev pos
+zill4: i open everything in mp
+zill4: err
+zill4: mp1
ZwiFT: u can do 99+ utg, and 66+utg+3
+zill4: and i open like 66+ in mp1
ZwiFT: and u be fine
+zill4: yeah
+zill4: like
Penneywize: ok
+zill4: yeah
Penneywize: gonna write this shit down haha
+zill4: once the first 3 guys fold
+zill4: open everything
+zill4: but
+zill4: the first 2 guys fold
+zill4: maybe add like 7s
+zill4: but the problem is pp oop as pfr is really shitty
+zill4: im not happy about opening 22 in mp2
+zill4: but i do it
+zill4: but yeah

Originally Posted by donkfish

I dropped 22-66 from my UTG range halfway through 10NL. I still open them occasionally depending on table dynamics, hell sometimes I open shit like 78s and KXs if there's a whale in the blinds. But overall, playing tight from EP makes life a whole lot easier.

Quoted for truth.

Thanks for the feedback guys

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

NH JKDS.

What stakes are you playing? I'm sure I hear you're playing cheeseburger stakes...may I ask why?

Im playing for cheap pizza's atm.

Im doing so for various reasons, but i guess the gist is that I have something to prove and had to withdraw 800 to pay some bills. Good news is that im halfway to playing for Chinese food.

@Penny

Huh, so zilla doesnt open less than 99 utg. That surprises me alot since im getting mixed impressions about losing 22-66. I guess it really depends on how fit or fold our opponents are and how likely they are to play back at us in some way or another.

I definitely like the idea of opening kxs though...and am thinking about opening all broadways utg...at least for 5nl. I know this would be super exploitable at other stakes but people enjoy calling with dominated hands way too much here ( like KT, J8s, Q7s) and whats worse is that they cant fold them if they hit. Even better is that im noticing they play their two pairs/top pair top kicker hands way different. So idk. Im gonna think more on it. Initial reaction though is opening really weak kings, even if suited, is a bad idea.

Continuation Betting: Marginal Hands

A lot of articles don’t talk about things like cbetting a pair of nines on a K94r board. Believe me, ive searched. Maybe its because we aren’t ‘cbetting’ here…so maybe its better to search for value betting marginal hands, but I find it weird that what might be a common mistake in c-betting or deciding to c-bet isn’t discussed in these articles on 2p2 or FTR.

With any luck, the playing middle pocket pairs COTW on 2p2 will enlighten me a bit…as it should, at the very least, talk about postflop play at the pfr-er and we’ll flop marginal hands a lot.

But lets see what I can figure out with the help of ppl on ftr and some research first.

I guess I'll start this one off with a definition given from someone at 2p2

Originally Posted by freakdaddy

(Continuation bets) are a continuation of pre-flop aggression, designed to win the pot if the pre-flop raiser missed the flop, or continue to build a pot when ahead.

So right there, even in a basic definition, thoughts on marginal hands that neither miss nor are necessarily ahead are ignored. Naturally, being the lagtard that I am, I choose this to mean that marginal hands are crap and ill just always turn them into bluffs. This wasnt bad though, Im showing a decent profit from it,...but ive been told by several people who play for my rent checks that I should instead be checking these marginal hands. So...why is there confusion?

Originally Posted by fnord

It's counter-intuitive, but the counter for loose/passive play is to bet/fold a lot. Build a lot of pots and build a strong feel for when the critical bet goes into the pot from the perspective of your opponent.

You can't bluff a calling station, but you sure as hell can bluff someone who plays loose on the small streets, a lot tighter on the big streets and won't play back at you light unless he has a hand or is running out of chips.

I've noticed this too, when someone has a range wider than your mom's vagina...they just arent going to hit too many flops. Even the flops they do hit, they arent going to have too strong of a hand and might fold anyway. So, i take advantage by taking the instant money they leave behind when they miss. Sure they fold out every possible worse hand that might be drawing to 6 outs or something, but look at that pot!

Well, this is clearly wrong right? With alot of help from Yaawn I think im finally getting why.

We're playing blackjack instead. Dealer gives us an Ace and a King...SWEET. But the dealer might also have blackjack she says...and offers even money instead of the 1.5:1. Cbetting marginal hands seems to be like this example, where I choose to always take the even money offer instead of the 1.5:1. Im scared that villain might bet me off my marginal hand with some kind of weird bluff with a hand i would have beat, but thats poker. You're very rarely ever 100% to win, so avoiding a situation because villain might win instead of you seems as silly as always taking that even money black jack bet. There are some situations where you'd take that bet for sure, like its been 100 cards since anyones seen an ace/facecard or something...but always taking it is for sure a mistake...just like there are boards where you can continuation bet your marginal hand for value...but more on that in a bit.

Originally Posted by ISF

Try to play in such a way that easily defines your value bets and your bluffs

This quote seems to be the simplest one that says what every other does. Renton talks about cbetting, and many others on FTR and 2p2 but its basically this quote.

1) Bet for value, with hands you should bet for value with
2) Bet as a bluff, with hands that are bluffs
3) If you are neither value betting or bluffing, maybe you shouldnt bet.

Thinking about this, its funny that i would always take that easy road of just betting with the marginal hands. What follows is thoughts Yaawn gave me in irc yesturday that im paraphrasing in regards to betting A9o on a K92r.

You can't win 100% if your calling down. But, you can't win 100% when your betting either. Doing a bet/f, c/f c/f line is gonna lose money too. Its not an instant win just because villain c/f's a large part of his range. So taking this line just because we know we arent going to win every time we call down is dumb.

Also, If we're betting a marginal hand as a bluff, we open the door to being c/r-ed. That kind of spot sucks with any hand, but more so with a marginal hand since we just have to fold what could be the best hand. We also build the pot with a hand that cant take action...allowing villain the opportunity to bluff later if he calls.

Its like, theres almost no reason to be betting these hands and many many reasons not to.

Leak fixed?

1) I feel like im still befuddled on this issue, so Im just gonna go ahead and give it a shot. Im not gonna never bet marginal hands...since on wet boards ill get calls from draws and such and on certain boards underpairs might call so its certainly going to depend on the situation...but in general im gonna stop being such a bluff monkey with these types of hands and instead am going to start looking for places where I can bet them for value and check otherwise. Lets see what happens!

Again, any comments on this issue or articles you feel pertain to it very well are welcome.

Also update: Im 5 buyins from a $200 shot take at 10nl.

1) Bet for value, with hands you should bet for value with
2) Bet as a bluff, with hands that are bluffs
3) If you are neither value betting or bluffing, maybe you shouldnt bet

What about betting just to pick up dead money in the pot on favorable boards, regardless of of our cards?

I get what you're saying about c-betting 9x on K94r. There's not much we beat when we're called, except for worse nines and random floats. It's definitely a thin value spot but we do have some fold equity by continuing our aggression on the flop.

Also update: Im 5 buyins from a $200 shot take at 10nl.

So 10nl tomorrow then?

Good stuff, keep it comin.

Originally Posted by donkfish

What about betting just to pick up dead money in the pot on favorable boards, regardless of of our cards?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but surely if you did this 100,000 times, the likelihood of Villain having something that beats you would be more than 50% Thus, is this a long term +EV play? Probably not.

depends on the size of the pot, size of your chosen bet, your equity with your actual hand against villain's calling range, and what percent of villain's range he folds. aka the EV equation. i'd attempt one but i just finished my last exam so now i have to get drunk. i recently made myself a little table of the EV for pot-sized shoves with raw pot equity and fold equity as the variables (going up in 0.1 increments), i found the results pretty interesting, although they're probably pretty logical and mundane for anyone with maths. plus they're potsize shoves which are different scenarios to flop cbets. still, i recommend doing some study on the thing, may also cast some light in this cbet debate. seeya tomorrow, FTR.

It's dependent on our position and post-flop tendencies of villain, so we're not c-betting this board in every situation. If villain plays fit or fold poker, why check behind and give him a free turn card to hit one of his over cards?

Originally Posted by donkfish

What about betting just to pick up dead money in the pot on favorable boards, regardless of of our cards?

Thats the thing though isnt it?

We already know that just blindly firing with these medium strength hands is profitable. The problem is how can we figure out if checking is better

For instance...

Originally Posted by donkfish

It's dependent on our position and post-flop tendencies of villain, so we're not c-betting this board in every situation. If villain plays fit or fold poker, why check behind and give him a free turn card to hit one of his over cards?

What about a free turn card to let him hit one of his undercards, or start willfully putting money in with a missed hand because "lol he checked"? .

*Warning, Explicit Language Incoming*

JKDS's Motivational post #1!

Poker Fucking sucks.

AA vs KK aipf EV = 60bbs with 100bb stacks. So your expected to only win half about half a stack. Think of all the other scenarios where we arent as far ahead as that. Ya, this game is bullshit.

Then some asshole had the brilliant idea of rake. Ya, fuck you rake man!

So ya this game sucks. If despite this you happen to actually be a winning player then give yourself a giant pat on the back, and take pleasure in knowing that you're virtually fucking the rake man in the ass all the while spanking the shit out of Mrs. EV. GO YOU.

/me pats himself on the back.

2.5 bi till 10nl, though i had enough just 10min ago

First 5nl game was on June 11th, and my br reached $200 today which is big enough to shot take 10nl Imo.

Graph of 5nl



Its only about 10k hands, but Im not gonna sit here grinding up a bankroll suitable to play 25nl while waiting for an accurate sample. Considering most of the valleys in that graph are results of spew (especially the 6bi swing in the beginning) I feel confident enough to move up. Worst case, I move back to 5nl...so wat.

Get to 210 imo and one table until 220 and so on

either way gg gl

I think your biggest leak is due to not having named yourself "Nani9001" or "Nani9002"; because then we could simply call you NaniOVERNINETHOUSSAAAND.

imo

Originally Posted by Penneywize

I think your biggest leak is due to not having named yourself "Nani9001" or "Nani9002"; because then we could simply call you NaniOVERNINETHOUSSAAAND.

imo

So much this

Name is that joke, but twisted to fit inside jokes i have with friends including the nineball avatar.

Nani = what in japanese, so my name is What9000.

Epiphany + Break

People suck at bet sizing, and understanding why they bet.

Thinking logically. I am someone who talks to ppl that are better than me at poker pretty often, have read alot of poker books, and have read everything on ftr about anything. I still suck at understanding why i bet...but my betsizing is good i think.

So like, take the average fish or even regs at these micro stakes. They dont understand shit about this. Most probably arent reading FTR or 2p2, and of those that do many probably still arent understanding all the shit there is to read. Those that DO understand...move up. So like, what does that mean?



Hero has 76s in the sb, raises to 4x.

BB calls

Flop is 54Tr, hero cbets 3/4 pot...BB shoves 100bbs

What? This is an actual hand i just played today but was too lazy to convert in weaktight. BB shoves over me here. This is absolutely god aweful. If you know why, skip to the moral.

BB shoves as a bluff: im folding to most raises anyway. Bluffing 3x pot or 10x pot is all the same to me. So by shoving here he only maximizes how much he loses when i have 55, 44, TT, 54, or an over pair.

BB shoves for value: This is a pretty dry board, and im raising pretty wide pre. Im folding most things to this bet as well. I have like 9 combos of sets, 9 of two pair, and like, maybe 18 of overpairs that i might call with. Everything else folds.

Seems like a lot of combos...but most of these hands get it in no matter what. So he doesnt gain anything by just shoving . Meanwhile if he raiseda normal bet, i probably float sometimes, call with like AT, KT, QT JT sometimes, call with draws sometimes, and a bunch of other shit thats behind but couldnt call before. So BB gets more value by not shoving if hes doing it for value.

Moral: ppl suck! they dont know why theyre betting or how much they should bet. Its ridiculous really.

Epiphany: We cant use what we know about bet sizing/betting to justify how a villain is going to play. We cant say "well villain 3bet shoved, doing this with TT is retarded so he cant have that..." until we know that villain thinks similarly to us!

Thats not to say that we cant narrow down his range every street or give him one to start with...just that we have to use what we know about villain to do so (ldo) and not what we know about ourselves.

Idk, seems obvious...but its the cause of one of my biggest leaks (spewing when villain takes a retarded line) so i guess its fixed.

In other news, im in the middle of a poker break. 4th of july + dad's birthday means im away from home so my volume just shrunk. Laters

You know what's funny is that I've made some hero calls the past few days with the deciding factor being villain's bet sizing made ZERO sense. Playing bluff catcher is not my forte but its kind of refreshing that villains (both fish & regs) are shoving with gutters, over-cards, and sometimes just pure crap on boards that just don't hit their range, like ever.

Originally Posted by JKDS

Epiphany + Break

I still suck at understanding why i bet...but my betsizing is good i think.

I don't your betsizing can be good without knowing why you are betting. Its good to have 'standard' lines, but poker is very situation dependent. Some opponents call a 3/4 pot cbet with the same range as a full pot cbet. So, if you are value bet cbetting, betting full pot obviously makes more sense. And if you are cbetting as a bluff, 3/4 pot is more appropriate.

Thats just one stupid example, but there are so many more ways to manipulate your opponents with betsizing.

Ya, but bet sizing making zero sense is not enough knowledge to call. All im saying is just because villain does something retarded doesnt mean we can automatically go OMG ITS A BLUFF....which is something i do alot.

For instance, a common misunderstood situation is when villain 3bets KK and the flop comes A72r. Most villains have no idea that its considered standard to check here since they cant really bet for value or as a bluff. So when villain bets, we cant really take KK out of his range nah mean?

Different example, we 3bet preflop, villain calls oop, and then he donk shoves for 90bbs on a 443r flop. Just because doing this with 88-JJ and maybe even QQ makes almost no sense whatsoever...it doesnt mean they arent doing it with these holdings.

So what im saying i guess, is that reads rule and we should limit ourselves from spewing in places with pretty thin bluff catchers against ppl whose lines dont make sense UNTIL we can really justify doing so.

Originally Posted by PapalRage

I don't your betsizing can be good without knowing why you are betting. .

Well said, hehe.

my b, i dont think

i didnt even notice that

I was just being sincere lol

Small update

1st: Just got back from a 8 day or so vacation in PA where i fired off many illegal fireworks into the sky.

2nd: I had a good conversation with Illfavor and Spoonitnow about 3betting/calling/folding with certain hands like suited connectors and other such hands. The end result is pretty obvious now, but im writing it down because its another thing that conflicted with my old 'knowledge' of poker.

When we 3bet with something like 76s, the bottom line is that we're doing the same thing as calling. We're bluffing. Its pretty fucking obvious, i know, i mean...its a 7 and a 6, we aint ahead of shit. We arent aiming to flop top pair and get it in, we arent hoping even to flop two pair or trips because alot of the time villain is gonna miss those boards. (ie, we could hit 77A, 77K....772...only like 3 of these hit will often also hit villains range...and even then he'll only haev actually hit it even less and maybe not even stack off 100% of the time...similarly when we get two pair). So what does that tell us? It means that when we're calling a raise preflop with this type of hand...we had a plan preflop to bluff the shit out of villain.

3rd: Because of this, ive actually fixed another leak. Cool beans!

Originally Posted by JKDS

When we 3bet with something like 76s, the ......... We're bluffing. Its pretty fucking obvious

God, I would never do this for value unless it's against a maniac stealing 60%+ from CO or Button. Or as a bluff.

If u were doing this, I'd like to know how it worked for ya. I like this Op.

R U @ 10NL? gogogo

Thats the thing, i dont really ever call bets ip with hands like 76s because i never knew why. Seems though i still have some things wrong though or im just bad at explaining it as just calling to bluff doesnt seem quite right after following up in chat later. Either way, ive got a cool gig with daven right now thatll sort it out. Watch the BC near the end of the weak for epicness.

I should probably rephrase that sentence to be "when we call we're doing the same thing as 3betting" because i mean to emphasize calling without too much equity rather than 3betting with fold equity...but meh.

And ya, im shot taking 10nl. With any luck, ill be there officially and rolling by the end of the week...but atm it doesnt look good.

Originally Posted by JKDS

When we 3bet with something like 76s, the bottom line is that we're doing the same thing as calling. We're bluffing. Its pretty fucking obvious, i know, i mean...its a 7 and a 6, we aint ahead of shit. We arent aiming to flop top pair and get it in, we arent hoping even to flop two pair or trips because alot of the time villain is gonna miss those boards. (ie, we could hit 77A, 77K....772...only like 3 of these hit will often also hit villains range...and even then he'll only haev actually hit it even less and maybe not even stack off 100% of the time...similarly when we get two pair). So what does that tell us? It means that when we're calling a raise preflop with this type of hand...we had a plan preflop to bluff the shit out of villain.

funny thing is, i hadn't read this or seen the discussion when i suggested the scs in late position article...
bold = planning = you've already written most of it! and a week left up your sleeve

10nl Update.

Ive got about 2500 hands now since getting back from vacation, with overall being like 1ptbb/100.

GD is this a jump. The average player is no longer a loose passive but is now at least partially aware of whats going on and is typically more taggy. Thats not to say they dont have leaks, but their leaks are soooo much different than these 2nl and 5nl fish who just go LOLOL I HAVE TP NO KICKER ALL IN. These 10nl guys seems to be at least a little aware that theyre playing with money and im begininng to understand more why ppl call it a 'grind'.

Lets see if i cant get that winrate up now that the standard few bi loss at the beginning of a shot take is done.

Originally Posted by JKDS

Thats the thing, i dont really ever call bets ip with hands like 76s because i never knew why. Seems though i still have some things wrong though or im just bad at explaining it as just calling to bluff doesnt seem quite right after following up in chat later. Either way, ive got a cool gig with daven right now thatll sort it out. Watch the BC near the end of the weak for epicness.

I should probably rephrase that sentence to be "when we call we're doing the same thing as 3betting" because i mean to emphasize calling without too much equity rather than 3betting with fold equity...but meh.

And ya, im shot taking 10nl. With any luck, ill be there officially and rolling by the end of the week...but atm it doesnt look good.

I'd also read this about 3betting small SC's 2009 April :Suited Aces

But yeah calling IP (only) vs. CO/loose UTG opens is great because we can bluff and semi bluff a ton. Barring they allow bluffing postflop of course.

The fuck? I didnt know they added an archive for older posts! Ive been reading that blog since it started and never noticed. Nice find kmind

First shot at making the cool BC article for no reason whatsoever except it improves my understanding and daven is my teammate. I have 1800 words. TL;DR, shrinking now

No, my wpp is much higher than that. Ive made many many longer posts in the past and shrinking it doesnt feel right.

Leak Concept again

Ima expand on this when i get home but i need to write it down.

Playmastering ppl is bad. Floating with a weak range is bad. Bad folds > bad calls.

BR: 280, 3.29ptbb/100 over about 5.5k hands. Meh, i can do better, but its not B/E so thats something.

Difference today? Played less passively, more aggressively. Thats it really. I didnt call raises preflop as much, i didnt float as much, and i didnt cbet boards i couldnt rep nor hit too much. I 3bet ppl wisely, blind stole a smarter range, and defended a smarter range. Thats it. ABC poker to the max. Lots of ppl at 10nl, lots with stats that arent as extreme as the ppl at 2nl and 5nl, and lots that dont want to stack off as easily anymore. That doesnt matter, i can still exploit them and their tendencies by just playing ABC and not being an idiot.

I was too lazy to expand on why the above post...but this is basically it. Not much else to talk about.

edit: Link to mine and davens suitedconnectors article http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post1958781

Update: Im busto.

Total earned ~$2500, about half from online up to 25nl playing on Stars and UB. The other half playing in standard ridiculous casino tournaments.

Ive withdrawn and spent all of it over the course of playing in order to pay rent. Turns out, even after effectively quitting and removing myself from poker for about 2 months...I still dont have a fucking job.

So im back. Still looking for work, still committed to not deposit until i can actually afford it. But fuck it all, im not gonna let my poker life die just because i cant play. Im back. Im playing in your threads and commenting in your werewolves so you better hide yo kids and hide yo wife cuz jkds back in this bitch (wow old meme is old).

So...sup? Anything cool happen? I see wuffwuggy is playing in a werewolf...zomgwtf!

Also, it turns out that interning for a lobbyist makes you more active in how the goverment works/what happens in government. Who knew?

<-- Turns out is solid Dem.

<-- Is mad we lost the house. But hey, it means i learn more at the internship i dont get paid to have. I now get to see how congress works when the dems cant just roll over everyone. Sweet!

HI DUDE!

bout time

where the fuck u been

stakaments?

Originally Posted by JKDS

So...sup? Anything cool happen? I see wuffwuggy is playing in a werewolf...zomgwtf!

dranger got banned O:....wb

i still suck at poker

@newfish: Hrm, not sure if serious (I kind of expect you to be at 100nl right now...though im a fan of always believing theres more to learn/achieve and thus always feeling that I suck)

@Philly: Wait...what? WHY? I DEMAND LINKS!

@!Luck: Id love to be staked. I feel like that isnt my place to ask though after just up and leaving for 2 months. My credibility likely tanked so idk. If ppl offer id insta accept, but if not ill just wait it out. School jobs usually start posting positions around this time for the spring semester, ill get one, save up a big deposit (zomg bonus), and be back to actually playing by February

@BB: I feel like i let you and others down by just leaving. Its a choice i feel i had to make, though obviously i could have said i was leaving for a bit or something. For about the first week of september, about the time i pulled out of the prop, i was stressed about my rent and burnt out from my previous bet. The combined made me stop playing for a bit, i logged in once on like the 15th or something and played an hour...realized that the rent stress stopped me from playing poker (scared money) and just snap withdrew. I feel like i should have said goodbye, but i didnt want to deal with drama that might ensue because of that decision. Anyways, my bad manners aside, i plan on being on ftr as often as i usually was (cuz leaving obv didnt do anything) though probably less so on irc...and be back to playing by February

@Kmind: Heh, i guess everyone 'quits' at some point

@Don: Sup Bro!

i'll stake u for 10's if u need it

PM me here or in IRC if you're interested in discussing a staking/coaching arrangement.

WB JKDS! Glad to see you're back dude. I haven't played poker in a month, BR still just sitting over 1k and probably resenting me for not giving it any attention.

I'll probably get serious about poker again in late december or so, after finals.. Can't imagine having the time to really get into it again until I've got this shit off my back. In the meantime I still hang out on irc occasionally, and I'm always on skype... hit me up

Edit:

P.S. Sorry to hear you're a liberal. My condolences

Originally Posted by penny

Sorry to hear you're a liberal. My condolences

I loled

And what better time for you to get back into it then when all the christmas fish are around?

@stakers: TY in advance, ill be contacting ppl to work something out sometime this weekend.

First session is 26 hours away and counting. TY m2m, ty others that have offered.

sick. grats, jkds. gl!