Limping to 25NL

Hello Flopturnriver!!!!

This is my first ever topic so I'll say a bit about myself. My names Ricky and I'm 18 from Melbourne, Australia.

I'll start from the top now.

I've always admired poker and have played a few 'just for fun' live tournaments here and there. Then around 6 months ago I decided to make my first deposit online, $30. In classic fish style my thoughts were "haha i might get a lucky hand and beat these fools" I won at the start then watched it diminish to $0.

I then gave up for a few months until about a month ago where I totally owned my knee skateboarding and had to have surgery and pins put in. So being bed ridden, I thought I might take the opportunity to try and play online poker 'properly'. (After clocking GTA IV of course lol )

So I started off just Googleing and reading lots and lots of different articles and strategies. Then I found FTR! I was amazing at how much information was in one place and want to give you guys a huge thumbs up on a amazing site. So after reading all the beginners digest and getting Hold'em Manager. I thought I'd hit the $2 NL tables. Over the 1st week I found I had a few wins but a general downward trend. Then I looked around in hold'em manager to try and tighten up my game. I feel that now I'm generally breaking even, my bankroll seems to stay around $20-$35. I guess I feel my biggest leak is being very mouse trigger happy and not thinking things out as much as i would like.

I'm still not going to be able to walk for another 3 weeks so that leaves a lot of time (and I mean a LOT) to dedicate to learning and practicing!!

I guess what I want is some positive reinforcement, criticism or suggestions from all your poker gurus if I'm going about this the right way. I am very eager to learn and poker is pretty much the only thing keeping my mind off things. Should I set a goal? Maybe get to $5NL by the time I walk again?

MAJOR major props if you read all that. My English teacher would be so proud!! lol

I really look forward to what you guys think. You'll be seeing a lot more me around here

[x] on the right track

You're on ftr, you're wanting to learn, so it's all good. Welcome!

Welcome aboard and good luck rehading the knee. Read everything in the begginers digest a couple times over. Get on IRC if you want to learn and can listen without shooting your mouth off. The guys in IRC are amazing at helping if they feel you are listening. You could make some good progress over the next three weeks if you work it like a job since you have nothing else to do really.
Good luck!

Thanks for the replies guys. Harleyguy when you say IRC does that mean "in room chat?" the only way on ftr i found to get to the chat room was from site map. (damn it won't let me post the link until i have 10 posts haha XD) is this the right room? because I haven't seen anyone use it in the last few days. thanks again

Originally Posted by chatzilla

Thanks for the replies guys. Harleyguy when you say IRC does that mean "in room chat?" the only way on ftr i found to get to the chat room was from site map. (damn it won't let me post the link until i have 10 posts haha XD) is this the right room? because I haven't seen anyone use it in the last few days. thanks again

That's not the one. There's a sticky in ftr community that explains all.

Now this is how you do a first post. Welcome to FTR, very glad to have you here, and yes come to irc immediately.

I sense potential.

Welcome to FTR!

lol thanks everyone, yeah I found the chat no stress now. I might just do a quick update on what I've been doing. The last 2 days I re-read all the beginners digest but this time took like 5+ pages of nicely organized notes that I can easily read over. Also I made one of those goal signatures So tonight I might take my notes and knowledge and play 2 tables of 6 max at $2NL

Welcome! Good to see yet another Aussie around here.

The Beginner's Digest is a great place to start. I suggest you also have a look at this very early on:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...it-t67759.html

... and particularly this (linked in the above thread):

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ce-t71824.html

Good luck!

Welcome- just keep at it you'll be fine
At 2NL just play tight, and value bet 2nd pair+

How's it going Ricky, can we have an update? I want to start an op (2NL) soon but I spend more time reading FTR than playing poker. Which is good for me because I can read much better than I play poker. Come to think of it I prolly write better than I play so maybe I should start that op and get some HH posted for comment.

Everything is going well thanks r9453. Well basically what I've been up to is playing 2 tables at 6 max with HEM hud running on Ladbrokes. After a good 2 weeks of playing I realized ladbrokes = fail. haha lol.

There had been times were I want to play 2nl and there is only 1 table!!!! and the most they ever have is like 5, 6 max tables and 2 FR tables. I've come out 10 buy in's up but over the like 7k hands I played I was having lots of variance probably because I'm still noob and learning but I kinda just cracked at playing on the shitest site.

The a few days ago I made a great decision to switch to pokerstars. I had a bit of trouble making a deposit tho (ladbrokes accepting paypal was the ONLY reason I played there.) But yesterday I finally made a successful deposit. After a session on pokerstars last night I feel right at home. It defiantly feels a lot more like proper 'grinding'. On ladbrokes it was like stack people get stacked stack people get stacked...

I also switched to PT3 instead of HEM and its much better aswell.

So basically now I'm getting started on stars playing 2 tables FR running the PT3 hud. AND I FINALLY HAVE SOME TABLE SELECTION!!!1!!one!!!! and everything is great and I'm egar to keep learning / grinding and build my bankroll.

I started on PokerStars cause it was advertised on TV and I didn't know any better. Now, from what I've read here at FTR, 2NL FR at PS is not a bad way to get started. I use PT3 as well but I only play 1 table. Since I can't win at 1 table I figure there's not much point playing 2! I didn't play at all today, just hanging out at FTR and thinking about how to improve my game.

I've read about table selection and I pretty much 'get it' but can't seem to put it into practice at PS. What I find is that if I choose a table that fits the criteria (multiple limpers, high VPIP, pot size etc) it either quickly falls apart (once a table gets below 5 players I bail out) or there is already good players grabbing the action. I tend to just pick a table that doesn't have any known good players and approach w/ caution.

I've got 6k 2NL PS hands in my database including > 1k players. I'm starting to get some meaningful stats on certain players plus I have notes on many as well. Apparently, PT3 is going to incorporate a feature to import your PS notes into the database. If I had PT3 from day 1, I would have put all my notes in the HUD but since I have so many notes in PS I keep putting my notes there.

Incidentally, there are at least 2 good FTR posts on table selection 1 by Fnord and 1 by Da GOAT (I can't post links as yet).

Originally Posted by r9453

II've read about table selection and I pretty much 'get it' but can't seem to put it into practice at PS. What I find is that if I choose a table that fits the criteria (multiple limpers, high VPIP, pot size etc) it either quickly falls apart (once a table gets below 5 players I bail out) or there is already good players grabbing the action. I tend to just pick a table that doesn't have any known good players and approach w/ caution.

ok, it's 2nl. Pretty much any table will have a majority of bad players. Don't stress it too much. Play a tight starting hand range. Play a positionally varied starting hand range. Value bet good hands. Fold bad hands. Come into irc and ask nish for advice, he's starting to get it!

Originally Posted by daven

Pretty much any table will have a majority of bad players.

That would include me, atm.

Originally Posted by daven

Don't stress it too much.

Certainly not stressed about table selection. Even variance I can ride out but my own suckiness is the worst.

Originally Posted by daven

Play a tight starting hand range. Play a positionally varied starting hand range.

Oh yeah, I'm Mr. Nitty (25 of 169). Positionally varied starting hand range: IP (I haven't figured this out as yet but basically I broaden my range to say 30 of 169). I need to work on this a lot more. There are some hands (eg. KJo) that shit me to tears in EP or any position for that matter.

Originally Posted by daven

Value bet good hands. Fold bad hands.

I think I'm better at the first than the second.

Originally Posted by daven

Come into irc and ask nish for advice, he's starting to get it!

Tyvm I will, I read wot nish posts and it resonates.

chances are that if you're failing to beat micros it's because you're too loose and positionally unaware. Start out tight, and slowly loosen up. Don't try to 3-bet K7s from the button before you can even crawl.

Originally Posted by r9453

Originally Posted by daven

Pretty much any table will have a majority of bad players.

That would include me, atm.

so get better than them. Just takes a little work.

Originally Posted by r9453

Originally Posted by daven

Play a tight starting hand range. Play a positionally varied starting hand range.

Oh yeah, I'm Mr. Nitty (25 of 169). Positionally varied starting hand range: IP (I haven't figured this out as yet but basically I broaden my range to say 30 of 169). I need to work on this a lot more. There are some hands (eg. KJo) that shit me to tears in EP or any position for that matter.

gross.
ok, I'll help. Fold KJo in EP, fold it in all positions other than cutoff and button. Never call a raise with it.

A chart to beat micros, off the top of my head.
In an unopened pot:
UTG, limp or fold 44-88, open 99+/AQs+ - fold everything else
UTG +1 add AQo, 77, 88
MP1 Add AJs, KQs, 66
MP2 = MP1
HJ = Add AJ/ATs/KJs/QJs/66
CO = steal Any ace, any pair, any two broadways
BU = steal CO + all SCs, Kxs

SB/BB, raised pot.
Call pairs, 3-bet QQ+/AK. Fold the rest.
Limped pot. Raise TT+/AQs+, complete sb with SCs/Axs/pocket pairs. Fold the rest. BB the same.

Calling a raise.
Pocket pairs with set odds.
Suited connectors and 1-gappers after a raise and at least 1 call.

You are 3-bet. 4-bet QQ+/AK. Versus a maniac call 99-JJ ip, shove out of position.

3-bet QQ+/AQs+

Cool, that should put you in a good spot on most flops. Now figure out what to do when you open JJ from UTG 4-way to an A74 rainbow flop. And then work from there.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Good luck.

Two words so gently spoken
could ever be a greater token
A gambler's take on value town
when he lets the hammer down

Thanks again Daven. That chart will defiantly help me as well

Ricky, I was gonna ask if you got onto IRC but I see you there now. And yeah, thanks Daven for the chart.

Ok I think I'll update what I've been up to again and see what you guys think.

So now I've been grinding $2nl at pokerstars for just over a week and am defiantly feeling like a winning player. After getting comfortable with pokerstars and playing 4 tables my variance isn't huge and i feel i am consistently winning.

The 10k hands I played while at ladbrokes had huge amounts of variance when I was still getting the grips with everything and towards the end started becoming a break even player.

Here all the hands I've played at stars so far. I feel I'm better then 2/3 of the players at $2nl, do I have a case of noob cockyness or am I actually improving like I feel I am?

Originally Posted by chatzilla

do I have a case of noob cockyness or am I actually improving like I feel I am?

Do you feel you're improving because of your good results or because you actually feel you are getting better at knowing what you're doing at the table?
If it's the former, then it's noob cockiness. 4k hands is not quite enough yet to make any meaningful conclusions.
If it's the latter, then you're probably on the right track. Keep on working on your game and let the results take care of themselves.

Originally Posted by chatzilla

I feel I'm better then 2/3 of the players at $2nl

That's awesome, but it means that at every table, there are still an average of two players you don't feel you have an edge against. Work on getting that number closer to zero. Good luck.

Well done, keep it up! Good luck.

Thanks guys. Yeah fielmann I do feel I know what I'm doing at the table more and more. I've been learning a lot very quickly.

I got back from the doctors today and am gonna be on crutches for another 6 weeks. Terrible news for my life but great news for my poker game

So I'm gonna try and grind as much as I can and keep learning, I might update again when i get to 10k hands

{moved from BC at request of OP}

It's a blog bitches!

haha, yes.

ooo a blog. May I suggest a title change to 'Raising to 25nl'. Limping is just so meh :/

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

ooo a blog. May I suggest a title change to 'Raising to 25nl'. Limping is just so meh :/

the pun is already causing mass confusion! i win at thread naming!

Good luck bro, I have a feeling you're going to go far. Keep studying and playing well!

Good Luck.

I'm probably not important enough to get a poem though

Thanks Guys. Ok now that this has become my blog I should probably set it out like a proper operation blog.

oh and m2m about the title it is JKDS's delicious pun destined for mass confusion muhaha

WHERE I'M AT NOW

- Pokerstars
- $2NL
- 4 FR tables
- Running PT3


GOAL as of August 4th

[ ] Have successfully moved up to $5nl before September 21st

This will involve the following sub-goals

[ ] Grind up to 20-30 BI's for 5nl ($100-$150)
[ ] Clear stars $50 bonus (Earn 500 FPP's)
[ ] Successfully move up to 5nl

**Why September 21st, well that is when I can start getting off my crutches. And at the rate I'm playing hands and earning FPP's it does seem quite obtainable. **

PATCHING LEAKS
These are things I need to keep in mind when playing

- NEVER impulse call
- NEVER play if I'm not in the right mindset
- NEVER play more then 2 hours straight without a break
- NEVER look in PT3 while playing and be like "oh I'm up/down"
- TRUST my reads
- Aim to regularly study along with grind
- Post HH's on FTR or IRC more regularly
- Pay more attention to the tables when not in a hand
- Know when I'm on tilt and stop playing immediately
- Remember that it will take a long time and don't try to rush things (stick to proper BR management)


***Before a session ask myself***

- Am i wanting to play for the right reasons?

- Are there going to be any interruptions?

- Do I feel ok to focus for 2 straight hours? ( e.g tired, sick )

- Is everything closed? ( e.g facebook, msn )

- How am I feeling? ( e.g stressed, angry )

Hopefully this will be setting me up to achieve greatness lol. If you have any thoughts or tips goals/leaks I'd love to hear them.

I'll be making regular progress updates,
Cheers guys

Looks good

hey, chat, welcome to ftr

Originally Posted by chatzilla

PATCHING LEAKS
These are things I need to keep in mind when playing

- NEVER impulse call
- NEVER play if I'm not in the right mindset
- NEVER play more then 2 hours straight without a break
- NEVER look in PT3 while playing and be like "oh I'm up/down"
- TRUST my reads
- Aim to regularly study along with grind
- Post HH's on FTR or IRC more regularly
- Pay more attention to the tables when not in a hand
- Know when I'm on tilt and stop playing immediately
- Remember that it will take a long time and don't try to rush things (stick to proper BR management)


***Before a session ask myself***

- Am i wanting to play for the right reasons?

- Are there going to be any interruptions?

- Do I feel ok to focus for 2 straight hours? ( e.g tired, sick )

- Is everything closed? ( e.g facebook, msn )

- How am I feeling? ( e.g stressed, angry )

If I had a dollar back for every 20 I've lost 'cuz I didn't do something on that list...

Best of luck with achieving your goals.... also.. 'good list' you've set out with questions to ask oneself prior to playing. A big one for me is.. do I have other affairs to attend to that perhaps I'm putting off while considering playing. If so, that stuff that's hanging over my head will cloud my judgement a bit while playing.

Hmm..... I have a feeling that once you're off the crutches you'll still be getting in the same (if not more) hours on the tables. Call it a hunch.

Alot of newer players seem to take very little interest in studying the game and instead just opt to get in there and mix it up. Just seeing your interest & willingness to learn more should fare you well (your English teacher would rip apart that last sentence, lol)

Awesome list of checks for sessions and shizzle, I like.

Personally I don't like setting monetary goals but a few people do it around here so I guess it can't be terrible. However, don't let that affect your play, like, for example, when you're halfway to that date and you don't see yourself halfway through the monetary goal, don't start trying to force things. I think it's unnecessary setting a monetary goal simply because if you're playing the best you know how, with the plays that have the most expected value then the short term results are irrelevant.

Anyways, you're mindset seems to be really solid and you're doing great so far on the tables so good luck!

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm glad you like my questions!! Yeah Gobbatino I hear what your saying I'm not really gonna be fussed if I don't get there in time, I guess the main reason I set a date was to get me excited to play more.

Anyway I'll update now.

In the last 3k hands I've made a lot of mistakes causing my winnings to drop back down to almost even. Now I don't actually see this as a bad thing, because you can learn from your mistakes! and a great time to do so would be at the micros so I don't go busto later. I tilted really bad one session which caused me to call ridiculous coin flips and of course I lost.

Then trying to grind back up to where I was before that has had some setbacks as well. I posted a few hands in IRC and have come up with some more leaks to add to my list

- When facing large bets with TPGK or TPTK (ESPICALLY TPGK) lay it down!!! (Chances someone is betting half there stack on <TPGK are not worth the risk)

- Keep in mind players aren't likely going to be laying down high pairs, flush draws or even random broadways. So value bet the shit out of 2 pair +

- If you want to 50-50 chance of making money. Go get a coin and find someone to flip. Keep it off the poker table.

- Think about position post flop more.

- Avoid slow playing almost completely.

- STOP C-BETTING SO MUCH!! c-bet When IP and is checked around. Stop c-betting OOP and in big multiways!! Also avoid c-betting unknowns.

- Take a lot more time in making ALL decisions. (I need to work a bit harder on putting players on ranges.)

- Don't think you can get away with a passive pot with bottom pair. Avoid betting the river someone will call with middle pair just c/f.

Hopefully these will help me plug up my game.

Something I've been wondering chatzilla, I have this mental picture of you sitting in front of your computer with a pair of crutches leaning against the desk and your leg stuck out to one side resting on a pillow. The image is not looking too comfortable, is this a problem for you at all? Aka you need to be relaxed and focussed on your game etc.

Yeah Nish I agree with what you said but it was kinda like I was doing it way too much now that i wrote it down it's under control.

Haha Rob my knee isn't in a cast anymore so I can bend it and stuff and sit at the computer fine. I'm just not allowed to put weight on it e.g. walk

Ok I've taken on board all my new leak patches, got out of bed off the laptop back to my real desktop computer, transferred my PT3 database over (which is a bit of a bitch :P) Now on a real monitor I have lots more room and have been playing 5 tables

A few sessions later things couldn't be better I defiantly feel like a consistent winning player at $2NL! So now I'm going to grind out my 5 tables at around 250 hands an hour all the way to $5NL!!

Of course I'm gonna keep in mind not to get cocky and still do regular study and post lots of hands, but things seem to be steadily going great!

you auto fold J3o on the hj, for shame.

and...HOLY FUCK, your monitor is huge.

and...congrats on da confidence

got out of bed off the laptop back to my real desktop computer

Good move.

transferred my PT3 database over

I looked into doing a database backup and gave up after 10 mins. Apparently built in backup will be added to PT3 soon.

Now on a real monitor I have lots more room

Could we have a few details, brand, size etc. I'm thinking of getting a new monitor to plug into my laptop, that should work don't ya think?

Of course I'm gonna keep in mind not to get cocky

I'm sure your A game doesn't include being overly cocky. If you're not playing your A game you stop playing, right?

My monitor is just a big compaq CTR one, I wouldn't recommend buying one, (do they even sell crt's anymore? lol) It probably won't be worth buying a monitor just for a laptop but if your keen get like a wide screen lcd or plasma or something

a wide screen lcd or plasma or something

My laptop has a HDMI output so I thought I could get a medium size lcd tv and use it as a monitor?

If you're going to be switching between the two computers regularly - don't forget you can run PostgreSQL on one machine and have the second one access that database directly if they are connected via a LAN/Wireless LAN..

From memory you need to add into the config file of Postgres the username and IP address of the other computer (or address range potentially if you're using dynamic addresses).. Anyway not to get technical now - but if you're regularly playing on more than one computer feel free to PM details of how your network is set up and I might be able to help you get to share the one PT database between two computers. (Obviously one computer would always have to be on when hosting the database - such as the desktop.. The laptop can then use the desktops database, import all hand histories etc, then next time you log onto the desktop you don't need to update the database with all the hand histories you played on the lappy..)

Sorry for tech post

Good luck with your Operation

~ Another Aussie -- stuck in Japan!

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Good Luck.

I'm probably not important enough to get a poem though

Dude - you get no poem because nothing rhymes w/ "squach" 'cept for watch, blotch and crotch... and there's no poem in any of those.

OP - GL!

Thanks for the tech advice Hal. I'm permanently on the desktop now so it's all good, I just reinstalled PostgreSQL and PT3 and exported my old PT3 database in to '.txt' files.

Now I have some great news to report!!!

Today after another consistent winning player grind lol I have made back my original $30 fish deposit I lost long before I found FTR! plus a little bit extra so I "officially" have winnings!!

5nl keeps getting closer and closer

Wow! its been a month since started this thread, I feel like I have come really far in that time and learned a lot!!

Here is a few hands for my last session

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nl-t88380.html

and I'm almost up to 10k hands, I'll post up graphs and stats when i get there in the coming days

great little session today!!



$0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG SKTBO ($3.46)
UTG+1 Blauerklaus3 ($3.97)
MP1 Hero ($2.31)
MP2 dos007 ($5.00)
CO john hegarty ($5.18)
BTN pilka2007 ($0.99)
SB den282828 ($0.80)
BB Tempus1974 ($5.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.03, 8 players) Hero is MP1
1 fold, Blauerklaus3 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, 1 fold, john hegarty calls $0.10, 3 folds, Blauerklaus3 calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.33, 3 players)
Blauerklaus3 bets $0.02, Hero raises to $0.20, john hegarty calls $0.20, Blauerklaus3 calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.93, 3 players)
Blauerklaus3 checks, Hero checks, john hegarty checks

River: ($0.93, 3 players)
Blauerklaus3 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.12, john hegarty goes all-in $4.88, Blauerklaus3 goes all-in $3.47, Hero goes all-in $0.89

Final Pot: $10.28
john hegarty shows:
Blauerklaus3 shows:
Hero shows:

john hegarty wins $4.33 ( lost -$0.85 )
Hero wins $6.66 ( won +$4.35 )
Blauerklaus3 lost -$3.97



I love it when a plan comes together