Operation 1000NL by 01/09

This is actually my second operation thread – here is a link to the first: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...08-t53387.html

Background

I was unable to accomplish the primary goal I set for myself in my first operation, as I didn’t manage to make myself a regular in the 400NL games. However, I have progressed tremendously as a poker player since April – which was around the time I began my first operation. Regularly writing about poker undoubtedly helped me to focus on improving my poker skills, and therefore I would not consider my first operation thread to have been a failure or waste of my time.

I finished off 2007 by going on a 16 buy in downswing that started at 600NL and brought me back to 200NL (thankfully, most of my downswing was at 200NL). This is by far the biggest downswing I have ever been through. Even after seeing zook go on a downswing of a similar size a couple months ago, I didn’t think it could happen to me. I would say I’ve played my best during many of these sessions, and never came even close to tilting. One bright side to this downswing was that it has made me appreciate even more the importance of bankroll management. I am wiser for going through this experience.

As of right now...

Currently I am a full time poker player playing 200NL. Because I am not playing higher limits, or completely confident I am a good enough player to be playing poker for a living, I am still holding a part time job. With the money I will be earning from that job, as well as the money I made working and playing poker last year, I have 6 months living expenses set aside from my online bankroll. If, by the end of February, I feel I am not working hard or doing well enough at playing full time poker, I will go back to work and eventually return to school in the fall.

My number one poker goal for 2008 is to become a regular in the 1000NL games. The only things that will stop me from achieving this will be motivation/discipline. I will go into detail about these areas of my poker game in my first post.


What i will be writing about

The topics i will be writing about in this thread are going to be different than my first one. I’m not going to discuss the results of individual sessions; instead I am planning to talk more about specific poker concepts and issues I have been thinking about or improving. As of right now I expect to update this thread once or twice a week.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!

You seem to have a good mindset and motivation for poker, im sure that with some hard work and a lotta hands, ull be at 5/10 in no time. GLL!

I will be reading and maybe even posting if I come up with anything insightful.

GLGL

GL Vi. what kind of job do you have anyways? i would think having a part time min wage-ish job would be -ev if you have living expenses saved up. just less time to play or w/e and probably just more stress to deal with.

GL Vi, I guess I will see you at the tables...


BTW: I have a job that I work 1 day for ~9 hours, it helps force me to get away for at least that day.

Thanks for the support guys

My job is handling office paperwork at a small medical clinic. I am still working there to give myself an easy full time job to fall back to if poker doesn't work out, as well as to guarantee myself some income every month. I also get to set my own hours, which is very nice as i can sleep in and work when the games aren't as good!


Motivation

My goal is to play 10k hands every week. Because i play 4-6 tables at once, this ought to take around 20 hours to do. In the last three weeks, i have barely played 10k hands total! My friends are in town right now, and i have been somewhat busy moving into my new apartment. But the biggest reason i am not playing more is simply because i am lazy.

I was only late one day for work all of last year, and because of this i realize benefit from having a structured schedule. I think three sessions between 5PM and 2AM would be best, and that it would be best if i wrote my schedule one day at a time.

I have not done as much poker related studying in recent weeks. I will set aside time to watch one or two videos at Cardrunners every week too.


Discipline

I do a good job of quitting a session when i start to play poorly, and i don't let bad poker sessions stop me from enjoying other activities. Because of that, i have little to write about this aspect of my game. Actually, the only big discpline related issue i have to deal with is resisting the urge to take shots.

A couple of weeks ago, i took a shot at 600NL. I was reasonably rolled to be taking a shot, and the tables were very soft, but it wasn't a good idea because my financial resources are needed for other purposes right now. I need to be improving my financial cushion and deepening my bankroll. I can't guarantee i can even accomplish these very important objectives if i am playing in games where i can't quickly bounce back from a losing session. I know i would have said otherwise had my shot worked out, but that does not mean it would have been a good idea.


I guarantee i will have more to write about this later when i eventually screw something up that's related to these topics lol

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

A couple of weeks ago, i took a shot at 600NL. I was reasonably rolled to be taking a shot, and the tables were very soft, but it wasn't a good idea because my financial resources are needed for other purposes right now.

I'm not sure I follow this. Either the money is in your roll, or is reserved for real-life spending, right? So I don't understand how you can both be rolled and need the money elsewhere. If you're taking poker seriously, as you clearly are, don't you need to be 100% disciplined in this area more than any other?

I'll stop nagging now

GO VI GO!

I'm sure i won't have an entirely new poker related concept to write about every week, so expect repeats


This week is a brand new topic though! Here is a hand that illustrates a concept some might find helpful.


SB is an unknown TAG

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($272.45)
BB ($240.20)
UTG ($148.55)
MP ($235.70)
Hero ($496.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB raises to $26, 1 fold, Hero calls $18.

Flop: ($54) 4, 3, 8 (2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($134) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $65


The biggest reason why i like a turn bet is because it puts us in a bet/fold situation on the turn instead of potentially ending up in a call/fold situation on the river. Putting yourself in bet/fold situations when the alternative is a call/fold situation is great to do with the weakest "good" hands in your range, and it applies in lots of other situations too. This is because it allows us to profitably value bet a wider range of hands in the same spot in the future.

And then of course by betting on the turn i avoid letting my opponent see the river for free when several river cards are scary to my hand.


Biondino: I do keep my bank account separate from my poker bankroll. What i was trying to say was that i should be focusing on withdrawing money from my roll and putting it into savings rather than taking shots.


It's nice to see people are interested!

Ah right, I get it. Sorry, I think I'm so used to people saying "don't withdraw! Build your roll and move up!" that I wasn't thinking on the next level

(btw your advice would be excellent on my operation thread, should I ever post a hand or a concept worth discussing!)

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

SB is an unknown TAG

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($272.45)
BB ($240.20)
UTG ($148.55)
MP ($235.70)
Hero ($496.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB raises to $26, 1 fold, Hero calls $18.

Flop: ($54) 4, 3, 8 (2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($134) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $65

NOTE: Been thinking alot about this lately.

BUT most players in opp's spot will check/raise any made hand here so just bcoz opp checks doesnt mean we can take the pot. opp's check could easily be an automatic move he makes. so id vote for delaying the float by betting on river if checked too, this line would also work if we have AT (A high) type hands!!!!

BTW in a separate topic, how can i calc how much an opp's range hits a certain flop?? say i want to play back vs opp's in 3bet pots how can i choose the best type of flops to bluff shove (if we called a 3bet)

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

I'm sure i won't have an entirely new poker related concept to write about every week, so expect repeats


This week is a brand new topic though! Here is a hand that illustrates a concept some might find helpful.


SB is an unknown TAG

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($272.45)
BB ($240.20)
UTG ($148.55)
MP ($235.70)
Hero ($496.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
2 folds, Hero raises to $8, SB raises to $26, 1 fold, Hero calls $18.

Flop: ($54) 4, 3, 8 (2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($134) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $65


The biggest reason why i like a turn bet is because it puts us in a bet/fold situation on the turn instead of potentially ending up in a call/fold situation on the river.

I don't mind the idea of betting this turn, with the intention of folding to a raise. BUT I think the bet sizing you picked will induce a lot of bluff raises. If you wanna bet/fold to better hands, then better stronger ~100ish, so you can be confident that a push is a legitimate hand.

Originally Posted by griffey24

I don't mind the idea of betting this turn, with the intention of folding to a raise. BUT I think the bet sizing you picked will induce a lot of bluff raises. If you wanna bet/fold to better hands, then better stronger ~100ish, so you can be confident that a push is a legitimate hand.

betting 65 instead of 100 is saving you a ton of money. betting 65 looks like a obvious value bet so why bet 100, now i wud of waited till river to bet this amount to balance when i do it with air.

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

Originally Posted by griffey24

I don't mind the idea of betting this turn, with the intention of folding to a raise. BUT I think the bet sizing you picked will induce a lot of bluff raises. If you wanna bet/fold to better hands, then better stronger ~100ish, so you can be confident that a push is a legitimate hand.

betting 65 instead of 100 is saving you a ton of money. betting 65 looks like a obvious value bet so why bet 100, now i wud of waited till river to bet this amount to balance when i do it with air.

I agree that betting 65 will save you money. I think this is opponent dependent. OP said villain is unknown, so I wouldn't expect an unknown to run a turn c/r bluff necessarily. BUT if you know villain is an aggressive player, I think the sizing will induce a bluff.

In this case, against an unknown who may be more passive, I think a smaller bet is good.

very very few ppl will c/r bluff here with AK.

I like the betsizing.

I think the amount of times you get bluff shoved is pretty small when comparing the two betsizes (this is an assumption that could be way off...)

Also, it sets up good stack sizes for river bets when you have a hand you wanna shove.

Originally Posted by biondino

(btw your advice would be excellent on my operation thread, should I ever post a hand or a concept worth discussing!)

i will start doing a better job reciprocating the active participation people are giving me in my operation thread

If i make a 1/2PSB on the turn, it sets up for a similar sized bet on the river. I would make a similar sized turn bet with most of my bluffs/value bets too, so this bet size isn't really going to make my hand transparent.


Welcome back DG!

tytyty dude start getting on AIM again!!

just had TJ watching me play, I BE. dont ask me how since i kicked so much ass at the tables

Two Styles

Recently i have been playing 8-11 tables, running 16/14. I've been winning (though not much), but certainly this isn't the best method to becoming a great poker player. So, to supplement that style of play, i am also going to have sessions during which i open up my game considerably. Today i had my first such session, playing four tables but running 26/23. I'd like to get my VPIP to at least 30, but today was a good start. My plan is to alternate evenly between heavy multitabling and playing much looser. I hope to become a better hand reader and get more experience in marginal situations. It's likely this approach will also greatly confuse the 200NL regulars!

I got the inspiration to start opening up my game after looking at benny's operation thread and seeing him dominate his games running 30/20 - something. Seeing Sauce and ISF talk about LAG play in a thread P4's started in the HSNL forum helped encourage me as well. Sometime last year, Sauce had actually suggested i at least practice opening up my game, but at the time i wasn't able to do so. Mostly this was because i wasn't yet competent at playing a solid TAG game. I'm confident that isn't the case anymore.

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

Two StylesRecently i have been playing 8-11 tables, running 16/14. I've been winning (though not much), but certainly this isn't the best method to becoming a great poker player. So, to supplement that style of play, i am also going to have sessions during which i open up my game considerably. Today i had my first such session, playing four tables but running 26/23. I'd like to get my VPIP to at least 30, but today was a good start. My plan is to alternate evenly between heavy multitabling and playing much looser. I hope to become a better hand reader and get more experience in marginal situations. It's likely this approach will also greatly confuse the 200NL regulars!

I am running tighter at 14/12 so I will be interested in seeing how you find it when you loosen up. When I have experimented with 3 betting light, widening opening ranges and bluffing but it just turns into random spew so I am going to continue with a solid TAG game for a few thousand more hands for more experience before I start to seriously think about opening up my game.

yea to many players (incl myself in the past) try to open up their game to quickly thinking they MUST play XX/XX. Their postflop game really suffers bcoz of the preflop adjustments they have made too fast.

So far i have played a little over 1k hands running 27/23. I have had to tighten up at a couple tables when loose fish were in my blinds or when TAG regulars started getting irritated and 3betting like crazy. I'd say i have been 4bet bluffing too much when trying to counteradjust. Unfortunately i am down five buy ins over this stretch, though i can say for sure most of it has simply been from not running well...

I have not seen the results i was hoping for over the last month. I have lost over 5k since December, around when i started playing full time. My online bankroll is a little over 5k right now. I have four months' savings set aside, but obviously this is still a big problem so...


If between now and Friday i am not up six buy ins at 200NL i will go back to working full time (starting February 1st). Thankfully i have continued working part time, and i am confident my boss would quickly re-hire me if i asked!

i reckon since your playing full time that you dont try change your play just yet and that you work off stricter BR mgt rules instead of standard 20x bcoz you require the money to live off as opposed to trying to move up.

2c

I haven't played at all since my self imposed deadline, which i was unable to meet. I started working at my job again last week and i think that was the better decision for me right now. Not sure when college fits back into my life plan, but i can't say i have given it a lot of thought.

I have watched one Cardrunner video since i started my break from poker, and it was of Taylor Caby and Brian Townsend railing some HU match. It was interesting to watch and got me a little excited about HU poker.

Posting still seems fun, so i am not also planning on taking a hiatus from FTR!

I still don't feel much like playing poker, but hopefully it won't be long before that changes!

Still haven't played online, don't really feel like it... Whenever i return to playing, it's almost certainly going to be at 50NL. I'm doing something my parents would appreciate and that's taking most of my roll and putting it into a retirement account. Although because i'm not positive i can actually set up such an account at the place i work, if it doesn't work out i may just put the money in a vacation fund or something...

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

Still haven't played online, don't really feel like it... Whenever i return to playing, it's almost certainly going to be at 50NL. I'm doing something my parents would appreciate and that's taking most of my roll and putting it into a retirement account. Although because i'm not positive i can actually set up such an account at the place i work, if it doesn't work out i may just put the money in a vacation fund or something...

I think a break is definitely good sometimes. I know I get bored of playing sometimes, even if I'm not running bad. No harm in just taking a break from playing for a while, and maybe keep reading up and learning and then hopefully return at some point better than you were before!

i thought i was going to play poker today, but i just haven't felt like playing at all.

Still haven't found out whether i can set up a retirement fund at my work...

played about 1k hands at 200NL, down 1.5 buy ins.

i may give up the operation thread for a while since honestly writing about my experiences playing doesn't seem as interesting or fufilling as it did a few weeks ago.