operation 5/10+

ive gotta get/run better, so im making one of these op threads. right now i'm in the midst of a huge downswing, but i won't whine about that...i'm using it for motivation to do this thread and play better.

anyways, my goal is to play and win at 5/10 NLHE and up...im not putting a definite time for it, but b4 01/01/08 would rule.
here's some objectives that are important for me to get there:

1. get to a 40k BR (starting is ~20k but it's also my "life roll")
2. if im down 2 BI's then quit playing for the day regardless of "how good the tables are" or whatnot.
3. relatedly...notice when im frustrated or distracted and stop playing til im focused again.
4. slow down (ie avoid auto-pilot..).
--each hand put ppl on ranges, remember history/metagame stuff, and take the best action given all factors.
--focus on table dynamics instead of getting distracted by other stuff.
--adjust my play given the flow/dynamics of the session.
5. get better at playing 3bet pots and defending blinds. i spew more than i should in these spots right now.
6. take FEWER notes, and keep them more general and organized...right now i spend too much time writing exact lines ppl took and stuff that's not really worthwhile.

so here i go. my next posts will be examples of doing these things, or just random ideas. let me know if ur reading or have questions or anything.

ok i'm putting a recent fun bluff to start on a good note and show an example of goal #4...

UTG is a decent tag player who must've put me on set or draw on the flop, when i actually donked out on the flop since the other guy was a station and i could get UTG off of over cards.
on the river, i thought almost his whole range will fold to a large bet since i must have boat/str8/flush...but result was still kinda surprising.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (4 handed) Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($1448.30)
BB ($449.70)
UTG ($400)
Button ($499.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9.
UTG raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $12, BB calls $10.

Flop: ($42) 6, Q, 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $30, BB folds, UTG calls $30.

Turn: ($102) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($102) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $102, UTG folds, showing QJs.

Final Pot: $102

after taking a couple days off, thinking and reviewing stuff and getting back some confidence after running so ice cold, i just played 1200 hands of mostly 1-2, and ended up $600.
im switching off UB to full tilt for now mostly since im running so horribly on UB lately. also they're customer service and software is teh suck, and the whole AP super user thing. i only have 1400 on FTP tho so gonna grind 1-2 for a lil...
anyway the session started off frustrating, getting some bad beats and making one humongous spew, so it felt good to end up a decent amount.

here's the spew...pretty much i had a brain fart. i thought on the turn i was behind and should've just folded, but i decided theres a chance im ahead and might get villain to fold AQ/9x if the river was scary.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($138.15)
Button ($253.35)
SB ($197.50)
Hero ($217.45)
UTG ($137.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, A.
3 folds, SB raises to $7, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($13) 9, 6, 9 (2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($33) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $22, SB raises to $44, Hero calls $22.

River: ($121) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $157.45 (All-In), SB calls $137.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $396
SB has A9o

THAT's an example of me not slowing down...but here i do a good job of analyzing the situation and reads. villain should have raised somewhere i think.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($200)
Button ($239.85)
Hero ($420.40)
BB ($202.40)
UTG ($200)
MP ($230.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
3 folds, Hero raises to $7, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($13) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls $10.

Turn: ($33) (3 players)
Hero bets $22, BB calls $22.

River: ($77) (3 players)
Hero bets $60, BB calls $60.

Final Pot: $197
BB has 8c6c!!!

here's another one i wasnt sure about. i decided villain seemed too splashy/loose for me to fold the turn especially blind vs blind, but the way ive been running i was expecting 54/52/A3/flush...bah actually this is def a call.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($446)
BB ($266.65)
UTG ($160.70)
MP ($115)
CO ($116.20)
Button ($204.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J.
4 folds, Hero raises to $18, BB calls $12.

Flop: ($34) 5, T, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $22, BB calls $22.

Turn: ($78) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $60, BB raises to $228.65 (All-In), Hero calls $168.65.

River: ($0) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $535.30
BB has K5o

hopefully you don't follow my path and spend more time posting that playing!

Good luck and run well

Cool hands from tonight's session. Keep grinding yo.

blarg, i was up 2k until today, and now am back to where i started this.

it seems like every coinflip type situation is going against me. i dont just mean losing QQvsAK pf, but spots where im like 50/50 to be ahead post flop but villain always has the better hand.
there were 2 stacks i couldve saved by being more logical about the situation, but here's what im talking about with close spots..

villain is like 40/10...i think my line is fine since villain is 70bb, he calls my reraise with lots of 9x hands and lower pocket pairs, and knows im aggressive and c-bet a lot..but def a marginal spot.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($316.75)
MP ($621.50)
Button ($402.50)
SB ($413)
Hero ($667)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
2 folds, Button raises to $21, 1 fold, Hero raises to $66, Button calls $45.

Flop: ($135) 9, Q, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $99, Button raises all-in $336, Hero calls

Turn: ($333) 6 (2 players)

River: ($333) 9 (2 players)

Final Pot: $333
villain has AA

villain is 50/10...earlier min raised a set in position vs my cbet, and has c/r my cbet twice.
so here i put him on AK/KQ..figured a T would c/r flop...guys like this rarely lead with lock hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($571.30)
MP ($62)
CO ($400)
Hero ($541)
SB ($491)
BB ($697.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
2 folds, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BB calls $10.

Flop: ($30) , , (3 players)
BB bets $24, Hero raises to $84, BB calls $60.

Turn: ($198) (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($198) (3 players)
BB bets $198, Hero raises to $443 (All-In), BB calls $245.

Final Pot: $1084
villain has T9
i still think the river is push or fold. if i call its cuz i put trips/QJ/AK as most of his range, and doubt this guy folds any of these to what's basically a min raise.

maybe it would be better to always fold in these 50/50 sort of spots. i'll lose a ton of small pots and have a weaker image, but variance will go down too...hmm.

Originally Posted by benny999

maybe it would be better to always fold in these 50/50 sort of spots. i'll lose a ton of small pots and have a weaker image, but variance will go down too...hmm.

if you really think it s 50/50 and your br can sustain it then I think it's always best to call and get info on people.

ur right genitruc, and folding is boring anyways.

ive decided to play 10k hands at 1-2nl. this downswing is messing with my head...i need to get some confidence back, but not going to play like a complete rock to do that.

finally finished the 10k at 1-2 experiment. i kept on downswinging til the end where i made about 15 BI in 3 days (PT messed up some hands, i should be about even)...


some hands were brutal, like getting in w/ set/boat and losing to turned higher boat or gut shot, or set over set, etc..but def lots of spots i played too weak or overaggro from tilting.
since i tried to stick w/ the 2 BI stop loss, lots of sessions were like 1/2 an hour so this took a while to do

in other news i tried out a 2 hour session with "WiltOnTilt" who is a 2p2 guy that plays 5/10 and 10/20, and was/is coached by krantz.
he has a real nice website, www.plusevpoker.com . heres some tips he gave out of the sweat session:

think more about bet sizes.
example- loose passive limp calls pre, and flop has an ace. if im bluffing, bet smallish like 1/2 pot. if i have TPGK, bet/raise large. either they have the ace and call large bets or have air..."its ok to play hands face up if dude is blind"

when calling raises/3bets pre flop, think about 3 main reasons:
-implied odds value
-showdown value
-bluff value
example- vs a 30/20, a low PP has bad implied odds but decent showdown and bluff value. pretty obvious i guess, but breaking it down like this helps to create some plan for post flop, instead of blindly "seeing a flop"

not enough ppl are paying attention at lower stakes, so often when i have a bad/losing image, its still ok to keep on being aggressive instead of switching gears, ie waiting for hands.

insta potting flops...ppl notice this...good things happen at passive tables.

LAST OF ALL (!), this was probably my favorite hand:

villain is around 25/14 pre flop, kinda taggy postflop, and has made some flop raises vs my cbets.
guess i could raise less on the river? meh, going all in is fun!

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($268.95)
Hero ($230.95)
BB ($240.20)
UTG ($120)
MP ($357.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
3 folds, Hero raises to $6, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($12) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($60) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($60) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $40, Hero goes all-in $200.95, BB folds.

Final Pot: $60

oh yea, my goals this week are to get in > 1k hands of heads up, and keep on playing solid like the last few sessions.

oh ya again...i took a 1BI shot at 2-4 in the midst of this and got coolered w/ AK vs AA.
i like how i played though - villain is taggy...3bets a decent amount and always cbets, so i called him pre flop on CO vs him OTB, and c/r him all in on a Q22 flop, which he would fold JJ- and air to...too bad he had it that time and i had to stop playing - that table was insanely fishy.

good update, please keep updating!


would you consider the experience you gained from the one on one time with the HS player was much more useful than say a cardrunners vid?

"...its ok to play hands face up if dude is blind"

lol

Fantastic analysis - definitely among the best on FTR. Good luck and keep writing about it all!

Love reading your blog dude. Was thinking about a coaching session when I (hopefully) move to $600nl.

Good luck and run well!

when you start running ok/hot again it s gonna feel so good and seem so easy

downswing at this particular moment when you re really close to jumping out of the low/low-midstakes is probably not a bad thing at all

awesome, appreciate the comments everybody.

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

would you consider the experience you gained from the one on one time with the HS player was much more useful than say a cardrunners vid?

good question. for me it was much more useful.

one thing that helps is to pay a ton more for it. that motivates me to prepare and focus more in the session. i'll often do cardrunners or forums late night when i'm not thinking/focusing as well.

and while a lot of the things he told me are interspersed in cardrunners or whatnot, his comments were all directed at hands i played, which makes them stick a lot more in my head.
and having a successful mid/high stakes person telling me a lot of hands were played well helped my confidence.

but if these kinds of things aren't as important to you, then it's definitely not worth the $$/hour a higher stakes person charges (usually $150-$350).
otoh, there are successful lower stakes guys that do all this for much less $$, and i'm still deciding which is better (ie pretty sure i got at least as much out of sessions w/ genitruc...)

another update- played a ridiculous 2/4 hu and 6max session yesterday, over 1k hands hu for sure, prob 6 hours or so...my longest ever.

i LOVED hu, haven't gotten such intense reads on someone b4, and it felt great to be thinking so much more than ive been doing in 6max.

so i know i said i wasn't going to whine about bad beats, but these hands were too ridiculous...keep in mind this is heads up...

175bb vs a huge donk, board comes like :Jc: , and i bet the whole way w/ :Kd: , overbet river, he min raises and i shove...:Ad: is good

later, 140bb deep vs same villain, i flopped a set, do the stack a donk line, but he hit a gut shot on the turn obv.

then vs a different but simlilar guy who i made a big suckout on then was pretty much beating down on - he c/c then c/r the turn all in with a gut shot and hits on river vs my 2 pair.

but eventually i got some payback, and won my biggest pot ever. flopped a set vs the first guy 250bb deep and got paid by KK

ended up losing 1k which isn't bad considering everything. def will be playing more hu this week!

thanks for replying benny, ISF is actually going to be giving me some coaching sometime soon and then i'll have something to compare cardrunners to. i find it pretty easy to concentrate when watching a video, and i think its because i try to jot down a note when an instructor plays a hand in a way i wouldn't have thought to play it. the videos kind of become like a lecture then but it helps a ton for retaining information so maybe having a pen and paper out while you watch videos will make concentrating easier?


hope you start upswinging soon!

Vi- i was using the videos and stuff more as a tool for calming down, but looking at it more like a class helps for sure. now i'm watching and reading stuff less often but with more focus - ty for that perspective on it.

and i did start an upswing, finally!!! my BR is growing again- around 22k now...in the last two weeks, i've made about 8,000, mostly at 1-2.

speaking of 1-2, man, it's really dawning on me how passive most players are, at least on UB. since my last update, my stats are 30/24/4 over about 8k hands, and ~10ptbb/100!

i've also made good progress on those objectives, and am optimistic again about accomplishing them. basically i'm finally running and playing good, so lets see if this keeps up.

benny are you getting coached by a 2p2'er ?

if so how much effect has it had on your game? I know i need a coach but ive managed to fix many of my own leaks just through attention to details but how much did the coach help you think beyond where you currently are?

glad the new approach to watching vids is working well

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

benny are you getting coached by a 2p2'er ?

if so how much effect has it had on your game? I know i need a coach but ive managed to fix many of my own leaks just through attention to details but how much did the coach help you think beyond where you currently are?

yea, i'm getting coached by a 2p2'er.

that's a tough question, partly since i've only had 2 sessions so far, but also because it takes longer to implement changes to my routine thoughts/actions.

most of the things he posts on his forum, or when we go in depth on a hand or a session, are like one of the long posts sauce or isf sometimes writes...
like sometimes stuff that i never thought through, other times stuff i forgot about, or just never wrote/read in a concise way, if that makes sense.

so far i've had a couple major realizations that stick in my head each time i play, and several minor ones that i need to re-read and practice more to remember.

in the end it's tough to say if it's "worth it" since the $ is a lot for me, but i think it is for me right now.

so ive been mixing 1-2 and 2-4 lately, but each time i play 2-4 i get shot down...mostly coolers but also some poor/hasty decisions.

here's an example with my thoughts:

villain is a tag multitabler, but seems to play looser against me. i figured air like JT/55 as well as sets, but mostly air, were c/r'ing the flop.
i'm playing loose like 26/22 and so this is a good spot to c/r me...so i decide to float my gut shot, ISF Theorem style. i dont hate this but folding is probably best.
my plan was if he bet large and i had a feeling it was bluffy based on the timing i was going to raise the turn, or if he checked, i would check and "value bet" the river.

his half pot bet set off alarms. it looked like he wanted me to raise, so i shouldve called for implied odds...but i ended up ignoring this because "OMG i made a double gutter!"
anyways he snap calls with A9s, which was surprising hed play that pre flop. i just shouldve slowed down on the turn - i wasnt focusing enough.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($290.80)
Hero ($400)
SB ($908.75)
BB ($582.50)
UTG ($590.40)
MP ($454.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 6.
3 folds, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BB calls $10.

Flop: ($30) 7, A, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, BB raises to $60, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($150) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $70, Hero goes all-in $326, BB calls.

River: ($802) 5 (2 players)

Final Pot: $290
He has A9s.

otherwise, 2-4 has been a bunch of cooler type hands like flopping top 2 in a reraised pot and the turn gives villain higher 2 pair...or AQ vs QT in reraised pot on a QTx with a flush draw, etc etc...i'm like 10ptbb at 1-2 and -6ptbb at 2-4 -- eventually this will even out!

Originally Posted by benny999

i'm like 10ptbb at 1-2 and -6ptbb at 2-4 -- eventually I'll start owning 2-4 even harder than I'm owning 1-2 right now

played like 6 or so hours today, so i'm pretty tired, but still kinda buzzed from the red bulls, so felt like putting a (long and braggy) post here.

here's my last few weeks worth of stats - it seems like i've been tag but stats are sort of loose.



1-2 is still good while 2-4 is beating me down...but this month i plan to kick ass again, because i'm feeling ultra confident.
despite breaking even for like 100k hands, i've improved a lot and sort of feel "due" for an upswing.

the things that have helped the most are playing heads up, and coaching (and talking to ppl like genitruc on IM)..
also joining leggopoker and deucescracked new vid sites..better than card runners for sure (btw pm me if u want a promo code for deucescracked - free subscription during their beta launch).

specifically i'm getting good with specific hand ranges, opponent tendencies, and optimal bet sizes. also i'm mostly stopping if i'm tilty, and adjusting better based on history and whatnot.
what i'm saying is something "bobbofitos" talked about in a video, "there's the "correct" (abc) play, and then there's the PERFECT play"

here are a few thin spots with my analysis that sort of show what i'm saying:

villain is crazy loose, but somewhat thinking, except likely on tilt..maybe since i raised almost every time he limped.
he liked to float and bet scare cards, and has c/r the river vs me before where i've folded.
he called too fast on the flop and turn to have two pair, and from the river c/r history and my bet size, i figured he'd either call with worse or expect me to fold to a c/r.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($202.15)
MP ($339.25)
Hero ($372.05)
SB ($147)
BB ($288.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
1 fold, MP calls $2, Hero raises to $11, 2 folds, MP calls $9.

Flop: ($25) 8, 5, 7 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $22, MP calls $22.

Turn: ($69) T (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $64, MP calls $64.

River: ($197) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $64, MP bets $242.25, Hero calls

Final Pot: $679
Results:
MP has 5h 3s (one pair, fives).
Hero has Js Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $679.

this guy was pretty loose-passive, except tilty. he snap limp-called pre, so i knew AA/QQ/AQ weren't possible. plus he had been playing "way ahead, way behind" with top pairs..so he had Q8 or a draw.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($174.60)
Hero ($102.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $5, Button calls $4.

Flop: ($10) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $6, Button raises to $20, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($50) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $149.6 (All-In), Hero calls $77.70 (All-In).

River: ($205.40) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $205.40

Results:
Hero has Qh Jh (one pair, queens).
Button doesn't show (he had 7s5s)
Outcome: Hero wins $205.40. Button wins $71.90.


villain was way too loose preflop and the flop, likely folds a bare 8 on the turn, and didn't make thin value bets. the main thin were his calls on flop + turn were fast.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($400.70)
Button ($1442.95)
SB ($491)
Hero ($1614)
UTG ($398.50)
MP ($425.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
3 folds, Button calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $22, Button calls $18.

Flop: ($46) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $25, Button calls $25.

Turn: ($96) (2 players)
Hero bets $80, Button calls $80.

River: ($256) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $150, Hero calls $150.

Final Pot: $556

Results:
Button has Qc 2c (one pair, eights).
Hero has Ac 6c (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $556.

kinda tired now but wanted to show my stats for january:


i've been playing looser, and it's goin good..except hitting almost all my marginal spots in big pots at 2-4 and often making mistakes. planning to improve that and play a lot more/better this month.

i've played looser because of hu...realizing how at lower stakes ppl don't make enough non-obvious moves, and i've gotten better at reading people.
also, my coach recommended asking myself, "Why not raise?" which got me thinking of how important putting pressure on weak players is.

also i'm thinking of posting a video about playing laggier at passive tables..anyone interested?

wtf u r becoming cts

just move up in stakes and repeat