Operation: Ben learns poker and builds a roll

no problem, gl with your renewed focus

I dropped to 3 tables this week myself. I just don't think I am going to change my habits or play style playing 4 and rushing decisions. I feel just like you do in that post. I am thinking better and feel better about my play, not just lost and on level 0 a ton of the time.

GL, just don't expect the big turn around so much that a few beats get to you. Just try to feel the game coming along with the desire. If your making progress the results will follow.

Yeah, for sure Jyms. So far it hasnt bothered me, but it will be something to be aware of in the future. Like I say, atm even though the results arent there, I'm pumped about my game.

An important part at 50nl (well any level but the lower the more often it will occur) is recognising when although I represent a hand very well, the players who just wont fold anyway. Heres two examples, v's people I actually thought could fold. I actually dont think I played great, but I do think I credibly represented hands that they should fold to.

First one is AK where I choose to just flat an EP raise and float a c-bet on 9Q6r flop. Turns a J and he checks and I bet. Rivers an 8 and I bet again after he checks and he calls with AT (2nd nut straight). Now I think I represent KT fairly well there, and the fact that he only calls the river and doesnt raise, tells me he's worried about that too. I also think its a river that he wont call without a T, so against his range I think its a good place to bluff. The fact that he calls with an OESD when he thinks theres a fair chance I already have the nut straight, and that he's so worried I have it that he only flats my river v'bet even when he hits the bottom of his straight, I think makes this a -EV play overall for him. Given I wont v'bet my 2P hands (only other hands in my range really), and his c/c line on the river, he has no implied odds here. The only thing he gets value from is a bluff and thats not really likely. He was a tightish TAG I'd played a bunch with and thought could think a bit.

Next one was v's a guy with TAG stats that I didnt have reads on, but thought a guy with good stats should be able think somewhat. I decide to just flat call his MP raise in the blinds with A3s (normally a 3-bet hand for me, but a fish had limped and would call, so I decided to take a multiway flop. Flop was J32 rainbow I think. Fish min-bet donked, TAG raised, I decided to call with my weak pair. I think any decent tag raises a donk minbet from a fish with 100% of his range. Turn I check and he checks behind, river is a J and I decide its a great spot to turn my hand with showdown value into a bluff and bet it. I think my line represents a J perfectly. I know a 2nd J on the board means I'm less likely to have one, but what else do I have with this line? Theres almost no draws on the flop I'd call with. I'm very likely to just flat a J on the flop, and on the river I'd value bet incase he has an overpair. He calls with 99. There really shouldnt be any bluffs in my range. Only thing he beats is a highly unlikely 45, A4, A5 type hand, or a 77-88 maybe. As time went by I realised it was wrong to assume this player could think, but there you go.


Like I say, not perfect hands by me by any stretch, but I think they were decent spots to make plays.

Ben - your last post is what drives me crazy. You want to create an image of having a tighter range than your opponent yet at these stakes sometimes it just does not matter.

More I think about first hand I explained its not as bad by him as I first thought, since with a 4 straight on the board he may not be so convinced I have KT and just not sure that I would call with anything else EXCEPT KT if he raised river, but I still dont mind it from me. At least I'm giving this stuff a try.

Definately agree Kmind, and like I say, that will be the challenge. Picking the spots where we can both credibly represent a tight range, AND have an opponent who can not only work that out, but also fold because of it.

Just got back from a weekend away where I loaded my PSP up with BFP vids. Probably didnt get the same notes taken as I'd like from driving in a car, but I think it was well worthwhile and I'm starting to catch up on them now. The particularly good ones I'll watch again anyway. Worked through most of the Jman and Diggy ones so far, and trying out some of the other coaches now. There was a pretty good 50nl one from a guy called Ryan Fee. I normally steer clear of the really low level ones since even the good players still pretty much just advocate ABC poker anyway, but there were some good points, and more importantly some really good first hand advice/experiences on troubles moving up and doing it successfully.

I keep thinking I should post some hands to show off what I'm talking about, but in reality I'm just playing how I should (well, when I get it right). I guess its just that I know WHY its right now, instead of just doing it because I'm told to.

Heres a basic example:

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($52.75)
BB ($42.50)
UTG ($71.65)
MP ($49.50)
Button ($55.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $1.75, BB calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.50) 3, A, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, BB calls $3

Turn: ($10.50) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BB calls $5

River: ($20.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, BB calls $7

Total pot: $34.50

Results:
Hero had A, Q (one pair, Aces).
BB didn't show
Outcome: Hero won $32.80


Now previously on that flop I think something like "He might have an A or a set, or he'll fold". Its something I identified chatting to Griffey the other day, I always only identify the top of peoples range. Not a noob mistake of only identifying hands that beat me, but I also miss a lot of their medium and weaker hands.

Now on this flop he calls any AX, most PPs, probably even say 66+, 45 probably, 9X for sure, as well as obviously sets. At some point he probably raises his 2P and sets, but the vast majority of his range is pairs weaker than mine. So my goal in the hand is to get value from those weaker pairs without scaring him off, so value bet three streets on the smaller side. In a results oriented way I could have bet bigger, and maybe even without results, but I'm trying to get called by his 9s, not just his A's here (he had A8s).

I guess my point is, most people on this site, even the guys in the BC could all tell me that the correct play on this board is to bet, bet, bet. No need to pot control, or disguise the strength of my hand, or anything fancy. I just do it here because I'm basing my plays off his range, not just because its what people say to do.

DaGoat used to go crazy on me, because this is the kind of spot I used to "pot control" on the turn because I felt it was way ahead/way behind spot. And it is. But, the way ahead portion FAR outweighs the way behind portion. Instead I used to just think "some weaker hands and some nut hands" rather than doing real ranges.


Heres a closer one, I'm interested in thoughts on:


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($54.15)
SB ($113.30)
BB ($50)
UTG ($99.85)
Hero (MP) ($105.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, A
UTG calls $0.50, Hero bets $2.25, Button calls $2.25, SB calls $2, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.75) Q, J, A (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, Button calls $5, 1 fold

Turn: ($17.75) K (2 players)
Hero bets $8, Button calls $8


Ok, obviously its a horrible turn, but his range includes a lot of hands that flopped pair+draw, that now improved to smaller 2P I think. Fairly close, and pretty thin, but I dont mind turn bet. River blanks, but it feels tougher on river. Do his 2P hands call a 3rd barrel? Does he bet his 2P if I check? I think his 2P may sometimes, but definately not always, and I really dont think he bets his 2P hands if I check. I ended up going for a b/f, but the more I look at it, the more I think a c/f is better, as I dont think he ever turns up with a bluff on river, and I cant imagine he tries to VB his one or two pair hands.

Actually the K in hand 2 isn´t that bad as it gives him worse 2pr a lot. I b/f both turns harder, expecting both villians calling ranges not to change notably over 1/3 - 3/4pot. Since we´re rarely behind their calling ranges Id go for the bigger bet.

Agree on hand 1 for sure, thought about this more last night. Even though his range includes 9X or weaker that might call the 1/2 pot bet, it has a lot of Ax hands that call a bigger bet, and I think the value from them probably make up for him folding weaker ones.

That K giving worse 2p a lot is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Previously I just think "shit, 4 straight on board I'm either slightly ahead but he folds or way behind" instead of really thinking through his ranges and realising that he had a lot of P+draw on flop that now have 2P and will call.

Whew!

Finally had the session I've been waiting for. I played 3 today. First one I played well and was breakeven until I lost a 90% ai on flop (AA v KK on T high). Lost 2 buyins in that session. Then I played another session when my mind really wasnt right, and I have to admit I tilted. Pretty bad. Lost 1 1/2 buyins, but could have been much worse if I hadnt caught myself. Must have been down almost 6 buyins for the month at that point.

Did some work, gathered myself and tried one more session in the right frame of mind. 300 hands later and I've won 5 buyins for the session. I made over two of them in the last 6 hands of the session (had decided to close down but playing until I hit the blinds (i.e., play UTG then quit). Just some fun hands, nothing extra-ordinary here:


Hand 1

Doesnt take a genius to work out villains range here. I love super duper implied odds!


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($154.70)
SB ($56.65)
BB ($87.05)
UTG ($43.25)
MP ($63.85)
CO ($81.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, 9
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero bets $2.25, SB raises $3.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: ($9) 6, 5, 7 (2 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises $23, SB raises $43.65 (All-In), Hero calls $29.65

Turn: ($114.30) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($114.30) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $114.30

Results:
Hero had 8, 9 (straight, nine high).
SB had A, A (two pair, Aces and sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $111.30



Hand 2

Few hands later same table. Villain is probably the only guy at the table playing more aggressive than me. I thought for a sec it would be just my luck to run into AA on the very last hand I was playing for the session, but nope!


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($209.35)
MP ($86.55)
Button ($44.10)
SB ($62.35)
BB ($81.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero bets $1.75, 2 folds, SB raises $5.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $16, SB raises $56.60 (All-In), Hero calls $44.60

Flop: ($125.20) 2, 6, 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($125.20) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($125.20) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $125.20

Results:
SB had A, K (two pair, sixes and fives).
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and sixes).
Outcome: Hero won $123.20


I'm -$20 for ring games for the month now. Great to get back to break even. Now to knuckle down and try to play well and see if I can make something of the month.

Two more sessions of around 450 hands total, and am now up two buyins for the month. Seems like I dont play many hands now, but only playing 3 tables will do that, especially on top of Everests slow software. I get about 300 hands an hr done atm.

This was probably the interesting hand of the last session:

Hand 1
CO is a taggy reg, nothing fantastic. 21/12 with 64% fold to 3bet. I dont expect anything too tricky from him. BB is the megafish at the table who has a broken fold button, so obviously we both want a piece of his action. Might mean he puts me on a wider range than usual.


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($50.85)
UTG 1 ($46.45)
CO ($216.52)
BTN ($81.65)
Hero (SB) ($48.75)
BB ($9.70)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, CO raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.25, BB calls $5.75, CO calls $4.50

Flop: ($18.75, 3 players)
Hero bets $9, BB calls $3.45, CO raises to $21.25, Hero raises to $42.50 ...


His raise on the flop here just made no sense to me. On one hand I'm less likely to fold with the fish in the pot, on the other its the sort of spot where unless he has AA and knows I'll call with KK/QQ and is sure I have those, I cant picture why he'd raise. Flops kind of wet, but not too bad in a 3-bet pot. I also think with the fish having called most of his stack already PF he'd just go ahead and 4-bet his biggest PPs. Real question is whether I'm best off just calling and say shoving a non-spade turn, or c/c turn letting him bluff off, or just go ahead and stick it in now. I felt there was enough chance he had some kind of draw, or a T which will call a shove now, but not sure its best.

Also part of the point of small cbets in 3-bet pots is to induce silly bluffs, but that leans towards calling more than raising. Of course if he does this with an AK/AQ/KQ/etc type hand then it would suck to get sucked out on if I just call, so maybe raising is good afterall...

this is a really weird spot I'm not really sure what I'd do. Any reads postflop? I don't see him having a T here unless it's a set. I also think he might call preflop more with PPs due to BB calling which is probably bad? B/3b on this flop just seems pretty scary given stats.

Also, I wouldn't be scared of a spade turn

Lol, true.

Spoiler but he folded. Weird eh? I really thought my push was bad and it probably was.

Btw, short 41 hand session, ship 2.5 buyins giving me over 10 buyins in less than 1k hands. Kinda happy .

He could seriously show up with T9s here, I'm thinking the 3bet is good. Taggfish could justify 'calling for odds' with a pretty wide range preflop, especially being IP. Give how little value he could get from a semi-bluff, he has to be betting some kind of made hand. NH.

Oops. Figured I'd play a few STTs for fun while I tried to wait for a Step 5 to fill up. Fired up 4 $33s (rolled for but would normally play lower since I dont play many any more) because they're so soft on Everest. And they were, however:

66<44
QQ<AJo
AK<KQ
2nd pair < OESD in limped pot v's a guy who limp/bet a lot.

Never less than 65% and often more but still bubbled on all 4. Ahh well, I know STTs have nasty swings, but it reminds me that thats almost 3 buyins of 50nl so I guess I'll have to relearn that lesson the hard way.

Thanks for feeback on hands btw guys.

Last night still kind of sucks, and I start to kick myself for doing it, but then if I'd won all 4 of those hands where I was nicely ahead, then I'd have made between $120 and $450 profit (as all bar one would have gotten me ITM and the other would have made it a near lock so I count it), which would have put me above the $2k mark and rolled for 100nl, so if it had gone down that way I'd be patting myself on the back instead of berating myself.

Also feel a little bad whining about those beats, although $ wise they had pretty big impacts. I am running crazy hot in cash lately. Rough morning this morning to drop almost $80 playing v's a maniac (worst was KK v 9To in 4 bet pot on KQJ flop for 150bbs). Was down about $17 this afternoon and running below EV losing a flip v's another (not quite as bad) maniac QQ < AKo and starting to think about quitting when I made a bad play getting KK ai v's AA for 150bbs against a 25/4 who in 665 hands hadnt 3-bet once. One of those "shit he has AA...man you cant fold KK in a 6-max game" except you damn well can when you're certain enough. I made a flush to win the hand, and I run way ahead of EV again. Ended up even for the day which was pretty good, made up for the mornings losses. Just gotta recoup the SNG losses and make my way past to $2k.

Lets hope for a good weekend!

Hand thanks to Griffey:


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($122.30)
SB ($51.85)
BB ($53.22)
UTG ($84.45)
MP ($94.92)
Hero (CO) ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, K
1 fold, MP bets $1.75, Hero raises $6, 3 folds, MP calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75) 3, 4, K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $7, MP calls $7

Turn: ($26.75) 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $14, MP calls $14

River: ($54.75) A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $54.75

Results:
MP had 7, 7 (one pair, sevens).
Hero had 10, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $52.05

haha niiiiice

Little bummed. Not sure if I mentioned it, but I played a entry level WSOP step tourney one night when I'd had a few drinks and just fired up a bunch of low buyin tournies. Won that and have since gone on to win through to step 5. Step 5 can also be used on Everest as entry into a sat for a smaller WSOP tourney instead of needing to win a step 5 to go onto a step 6 to play for a main event ticket. Entry ticket from the side event is worth $1.5k but you get $2k spending money as well. Decided to go for that. Really tight tourney, almost silly at the beginning. I played well, pick off a couple bad bluffs and was 2nd in chips going well. Then my lucky flip switch broke:

Guy limps UTG with 10bbs whos done that and folded before, I shove over with TT from the blinds and he tanks then calls with KQo, he hits.

Shove AJo from the button with 10bbs left myself, called by shorty with TT he hits a T to cement it.

Get A9o with 2BBs left, stick it in from MP, called by 44 in the BB which is about the best I could hope for, but I dont hit.

Out in 8th.

Gah, lost a stack I shouldnt have today. Guy raises UTG then psb,psb,shove, I call down with JJ as an overpair thinking his PSBs look bluffy from an otherwise decent TAG. He shows KK. I was trying to find his big hands in HEM during the hand but it came up too slow. AA played exactly the same way but I hadnt taken a note on it.

Got it back off him on this one (diff table) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...on-t84597.html but I'm a buyin off moving up to 100nl now, and theres a buyin right there (or close if I'd folded on say turn).

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I'm a buyin off moving up to 100nl now

5 buyins off. F'ck me and my playing at bad times when I shouldnt.

Quit fucking with yourself.
You'll get there, just fucking relax already. It's the same game with bigger numbers FFS.

Just wondering if I'm self destructive or something. I think this is the 4th time I've got over 1900 this year and blown a bunch of buyins.

I dunno, dont think I am deliberately. I think I just get so keen because I'm so close, that I start trying to push things. "gotta play, gotta play" and jump on tables that are bad but hope to cooler someone. Then I get coolered, "gotta win it back, gotta win it back" and down I go.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Just wondering if I'm self destructive or something. I think this is the 4th time I've got over 1900 this year and blown a bunch of buyins.

Weirddd... I had this impossible hump of getting over certain landmarks too. Everytime I got near it.. I went through a mega 20 buyin downswing.

Its possible that as your roll gets bigger... you get "too comfortable".. with how you're doing.. and start spewing. Stop folding where you should be, etc etc.

I think that's what happened to meee

Yeah, I think so. Especially if I've been running hot. I just start expecting the money to flow my way.

I mean, one buyin was a cooler, KK v J9 on a J95 board v's a fish who would get in with TP and any draw. Another was a 5 outter with KK v QJ on Q high board in 3-bet pot where he paired queen on turn after getting ai on flop. I think the other two were kind of bad though, definately more borderline anyway. I definately noticed I started calling, especially PF with hands that really were folds. Just gotta get back on top of things and see how I go I guess.

Been thinking about this.

Sidenote: God I need to learn my lessons once and for all.

Back on track: When I was running bad and got convinced to turn things around, I concentrated on a few things, one of which was only playing when I felt good, and when the games were good. I started off good yesterday. I woke tired with a headache, started to fire up tables but closed them down, realised things were no good. After I felt better I played a session and won a buyin. After dropping my son off at childcare though I was back to feeling crap, tables were bad, but I played anyway.

I've got to keep to the same rules regardless of whether I'm winning or losing. If I'm not up for playing poker, DONT. If the tables are bad, quit.

Sigh, hopefully these lessons will need to be relearnt less and less as time goes by.

Interesting how quick things can slip. Showed a few hands I won in 3-bet pots to Griffey where I had a weak range but got to showdown free and won. Just showed them as setups for how/why I got paid off on some big hands shortly after. On the other hand, he admonished me for not betting my weak hands at some point, and talked about their ranges. I knew I hadnt played great but felt ok about my session. When he talked about this though, I realised I hadnt thought about their ranges at all in those hands (and therefore probably a bunch of other hands in the session). I was just thinking "my hand is only weakish for a 3-bet pot, lets see showdown cheap" instead of actually considering their range and whether or not there was value betting. Disappointing to know I slipped like this (I felt good going into the session), but I guess a timely reminder to be vigilant about this stuff, and nice to pick it up early on so I can get back on track over the weekend hopefully.

Interesting day. Jumped on this morning, very first hand I flop a flush and get all in v's NFD and 3rd NFD. Draw hits 70%'er lost. Not long after I get set under setted. 70 hands in and I've been stacked twice yet break even overall (AA v 99 on 887 flop v's the guy who oversetted me a bit later, and a straight v's...2 overcards who called flop raised turn and called river...with 2 overcards). Ended up just a short 200 hand session but up $20.

Tried again later for another session. Only played 39 hands before I lost connection. I raised 8 times, and got 3-bet 4 times! Fourth one I have QQ in the CO against a guy with 10% PFR who I've seen stack off as weak as ATs before. Obviously this time he has AA when we stack off PF.

Kinda shitty, but got a decent session in later this afternoon. Tables werent great, but 1-2 decent targets per table. Ended up winning a touch over 2 buyins. Only rough hand of note was AKs v's K3s in a 4-bet stackoff which included a guy who limp/reraised then folded to the 4-bet. Weird hand. Probably a couple bad calldowns too, especially in limped pots. Hit a fun 4-outter when I guy minraised my QT on turn of T6Q9 and I hit a T on the river with over a PSB behind. He called my shove with the straight.

Heres a weird hand where I thought I was a sure thing to get a full stack on the river:

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($17.90)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($154.30)
Button ($76.70)
Hero (SB) ($52.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
1 fold, MP bets $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.25) 9, 8, 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25, 1 fold

Turn: ($15.75) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $5, Hero raises $16, MP calls $11

River: ($47.75) J (2 players)
Hero bets $29.80 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $47.75


Opps was 68/26 with 100% cbet. I probably should have cbet PF or raised flop, but...well I didnt. Darned if I know what he calls my turn raise with that folds river though. 67 is about all I can think of.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I'm a buyin off moving up to 100nl now

5 buyins off. F'ck me and my playing at bad times when I shouldnt.

Got it back. Damn, really hope I'm on my game tomorrow and the cards come nice.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I'm a buyin off moving up to 100nl now

5 buyins off. F'ck me and my playing at bad times when I shouldnt.

Got it back. Damn, really hope I'm on my game tomorrow and the cards come nice.

stop it. stop it, stop it, STOP IT! Putting pressure on yourself to move up obviously isn't helping.

Same game, bigger numbers. Just fucking play.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Damn, really hope I'm on my game tomorrow and the cards come nice.

one you can control (find a goat to sacrifice), the other ?!? do it.

See, I know thats good advice, and I'm aware the pressure I'm putting on myself isnt helping. I have trouble changing it though.

Do it? Done it! BR = $2025!

Its interesting, I've spent most of this year thinking of myself as a 100nl player stuck at 50nl. Now I'm ready and rolled for my shot...I'm nervous. Its taken so long to get here.

I know, I know, "Same game, bigger numbers, just play". I will, fairly confident I can ignore the nerves and play good poker, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not feeling them.

Checked out the 100nl games running after I finished my session, a lot of tables, but most with big waiting lists. Only 1 over 40% vpip and about 4 over 30% vpip, so table selection will play a bigger part. Might be worth investing in the Everest SpadeEye program for fish selection (I suspect a bunch of others are using it from the wait lists).

You really might want to keep grinding 50NL for a buffer. Especially, if dropping 2 BI and ending up back at $1800 is going to tilt you.

But congrats, gogogogo

GL at 100nl - you can beat it if you just play your A game.

Do well.

Played a v'short session last night but nitfest, finished down a few $s just from blinds I think. Another shortish session this morning. Think I played a bit passive postflop, although I was 3-bet bluffing frequently, finished up about $70 or so.

Heres an interesting hand thats super common yet I still always feel unsure in:

Hand 1

Villain is something like 40/0 fairly passive postflop.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($44.50)
UTG ($69.35)
MP ($101.75)
CO ($161.38)
Hero (Button) ($134.80)
SB ($70.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero bets $4, 2 folds, CO calls $3

Flop: ($9.50) 2, A, 7 (2 players)
CO bets $1, Hero raises $7, CO calls $6

Turn: ($23.50) 6 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $14, CO calls $14

River: ($51.50) 3 (2 players)
CO bets $1, Hero calls $1

Total pot: $53.50


Heres an example of one I played overly passively:

Hand 2

PFR is Taggish with only 43% cbet. SB is a fish who likes to steal pots.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($57.35)
BB ($74.35)
UTG ($104.50)
MP ($163.88)
Hero (CO) ($105.50)
Button ($80.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, Q
UTG bets $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50, Button calls $3.50, SB calls $3, 1 fold

Flop: ($15) 2, 5, K (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($15) K (4 players)
SB bets $4, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $4, 1 fold

River: ($27) 3 (3 players)
SB bets $10.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $10.50

Total pot: $48


Its like, I can justify each move, but they're bad justifications. I think I should just bet flop, I should definately raise turn, and I think I should raise river.

Grr, look for reasons to fold Ben!! Mediocre session, down about $20. Was up most of the session. Couple of bad calldowns where I frankly didnt adjust as the hand progressed (obvious bluff on flop turns into obvious value on turn type stuff)

[edit] I take it back, was just playing till the blinds on last table. I hit quad Ks in a 3-bet pot v's a fish with 7Ts who decided to 2 barrel bluff me. Positive session putting me up about a buyin for the day. Cant ignore the fact I lost...probably close to a buyin all up that I shouldnt have though. Gotta pay more attention or quit!

ps, I love fish

Played another session last night, just a short one but I lost 1/4 stack the first hand with a 3-bet bluff + cbet. That table broke down and I ended up HU v's the guy who took my $25 as well as having him on my left on the other table I was on. Took a gradual number of small pots on both, this guy was awful. Was weird, he seemed to be selective about what hands he'd play OTB HU, but in the SB he called every single raise. Ended up stacking him for 110bbs with nut flush v's 2nd nut flush when he called my raise with Q8o and we both turned the flush.


Mainly wanted to make a quick note about today. Woke up early but wife went to the gym so I had to be ready incase our son woke. Ended up sweating DaGoat playing 50nl (favor he did as its more relevant to me) for an hour. After that my wife was looking after our son so I fired up some tables. Had to play the waiting list game, and every table I got on was bad by the time I got on. Every single player around 22/18 type stats. Played 40 hands, got 3-bet about 4 times which is darn near every hand I raised PF, shut them down and booked a $2 profit.

I see that as a good day. I didnt play when circumstances could have been bad for me, and I quit when the tables were no good. Positive stuff, even though it sucks a bit I didnt get a good session in.

Had a look just now, didnt expect many tables running but thought there might be one or two that had some fish. There were 5 tables running, with what seemed to be the same 6 people on every table, with avg VPIP below 25 on all of them, most under 20. You must really want VIP points to play that shit. Time better spent watching a training vid I think.


Might detour a bit on that. Been watching a heap of BFP vids, trying out all the coaches, and also thinking back to DC and other vids. I REALLY prefer more lecture type vids, where they pick a topic, find some example hands and go through in detail. Failing that, I prefer pre-recorded live play vids, where they pause the play and go indepth into spots, with a heap of strategy discussion etc. I can barely even bother watching ones where they pause a bit, but only to discuss the exact hand and play in general, and very bottom of my list is live play with commentary done at the time. You occassionally get a little nugget of info in the discussions of live play, but generally unless they discuss the principles and reasons behind the plays, I tend to find them more just entertainment. Sure its fun to watch some highstakes guru playing big dollar games, but I really dont feel like I get much from it. BFP seems to have a mix. One or two coaches I've kind of taken off my watching list for now as their vids are just commentary, but a couple of their coaches are putting out really top notch vids. Main thing is to really take it in, including pausing regularly and taking notes/etc.

Those hands above are pretty bad Ben. Aq hand you need to bet alot more on turn like 20ish, and raise his min bet pleaseeee. I used to have the exact problem when i moved upto 100nl...my betsizing was always alot smaller then it had to be cause i was playing scared. The KQ hand...yeh u said it yourself..bet flop bet turn bet riv, as played raise his turn betttt.

Yeah, agree. Until I have reads on someone I get really nervous in those spots I could very well just be value towning myself. I probably wouldnt bet turn 20, but definately something like 18 would be better (I think 20 the draws fold too often).


lol, played a short bum-hunting session. 32 hands over 30 minutes. Only 5 tables running, 3-4 of the same people on each one. I'd pick the one with the fish, get on it, take a pot or two and when the fish left I would too, then find another one. Admittadly I ran good for those 32 hands, but I did win 1/2 a buyin all up. I think I played 3 tables and profits were fairly even from each, about $15-20 each table in about 10-12 hands per table. Got to practise seat selection on 2 of them which was nice, as I could just jump right into position on the fish. Most regs dont seem to do that. If a seats open and noones taking it and I think its better position I leave and rejoin to grab it. Sucky thing is on Everest I literally need to close the window and rejoin from the lobby, I cant just stand up then choose the other seat.

Dont worry AnTman and others, my passive days are done I think. All adjusted and enjoying a nice aggressive game atm .

Ok, I've been trying for a while to think of a hand I've played to demonstrate some of the stuff I've been learning/thinking about, that doesn't just look standard. I think this hand from my bum-hunting session is a fair example. Maybe it'll look standard to some, and maybe it'll look bad to others, but I'll give my thoughts behind it:


Villain seems to be std TAG over very small sample.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($261.15)
SB ($189.52)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($143.30)
MP ($204.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, J
1 fold, MP bets $3.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50) A, 9, 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: ($7.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4, Hero raises $12, MP calls $8

River: ($31.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $18, MP calls $18

Total pot: $67.50

Results:
Hero had A, J (one pair, Aces).
MP didn't show A8
Outcome: Hero won $65.50


PF is kinda loose for me, but I plan to play postflop carefully.


Flop is interesting when he checks back. Not the wettest flop, but I dont think he ever checks back AK, AQ, or AT here. He may pot control a weaker Ax hand, check behind QQ, KK, all PPs not sets, maybe his sets, and I'd expect him to c-bet all his complete air on the perfect c-betting flop so I dont expect to see much of that. 78 would probably cbet but not always, KQ, KJ, QJ might go either way. Any 9X or TX hand he probably checks back a lot. 9T I'd definately expect him to cbet hoping I have an A.

On the turn, I pick up an OESD to go with my TP. I choose to go for a c/r here, because the board got a lot more drawy. His weak AX hands really need to bet now for protection, hands like QJ, TJ should bet, two diamonds will normally bet, especially weaker ones, and some of his complete air will fire off a bet since I've now shown weakness on two streets. Even his PPs may decide to bet for protection. So a LOT of his range will bet the turn meaning we wont miss our chance often, and most of his betting range will call, everything except his air I think. I really think I could have made my raise a bit bigger though because of this. He has a lot of TP and Pair + draw hands in his range, as well as draws without pairs that will often call. KJ beats us, and QT may have got there. Thats about it thats ahead of us (other than his sets), and if he raises us we can evaluate whether we have odds to call or not. I expect calls a LOT.

Note we dont have a lot of nut hands in our range either. He'd expect us to lead turn with most of them for protection, so infact he's going to assume we have a draw a lot. Much the same kind of range we gave him without the weak Ax hands. TJ, QJ, 78, two diamonds, etc.

When the river bricks, I think the lead is pretty standard. At slightly over half pot, when he considers a lot of our range to be missed draws, or smallish pairs with missed draws, I expect a call from any A and probably any Q, maybe even wider. My nut range is so tight and my weak range so wide that its almost impossible for him to fold a pair here, and again very few of his hands beat me. KJ is probably the only one he wouldnt have raised turn with. Its probably still a b/f situation, but I definately expect him to call a lot and not raise or fold much at all.

So we've not only considered his range and how we compare v's it (1st level), but we've also considered our own range, and what we're representing (2nd level). By taking a strong line, with a medium strength hand, that looks like a weak range we get good value from a hand we may normally have only gotten smaller value from. Previously I may have just gone for a c/c, c/c line on turn/river and only got the one turn bet out of him.

Since he cant browse the net from work I showed DaGoat the above hand and talked through my reasons. He really didnt like it. He thinks I turned AJ into a bluff playing it this way, and would have done a much better job just leading turn and river into the same range. Basically that I'm wrong about having many draws in my range, and that I was lucky MP was a fish.

Ahh well, at least it demonstrates how I'm thinking, and that I'm trying to pull moves based on both my ranges as well as my opponents. Just gotta keep working on exactly what I'm representing I guess .


I'm fairly comfortable now, but still a little nervous about the money. I still tend to think in terms of 50nl monies. If I'm up $25 thats half a buyin. A pfr followed by a cbet where I fold, that $10 seems like a fair bit to the return of my session. I dont think I'm letting it affect me though, in fact my 3-bet% is higher at 100nl than at 50nl. Probably as a result of less fish and more regs so gotta keep the cashflow coming with some aggressive play.

Stacking off without the nuts still has me nervous though. Even though I was really confident what this guy had (moreso when he took ages to call my shove) its probably the most nervous I've been in a hand of poker for a while, even though its a pretty straightfoward standard spot:

Villain is a fairly straightfoward TAG, he has some bluff squeezes in his range here, and obv can have AA or KK. I dont expect to see TT or JJ but AK is very likely.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($176.60)
Hero (UTG) ($101.50)
MP ($182.35)
CO ($98.50)
Button ($67)
SB ($99)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, CO calls $3.50, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB raises $17, Hero raises $98 (All-In), 2 folds, BB calls $83.50

Flop: ($210.50) 3, 4, 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($210.50) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($210.50) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $210.50

Results:
BB had K, A (one pair, fours).
Hero had Q, Q (two pair, Queens and fours).
Outcome: Hero won $207.50


I wonder about his play, and how we should play if we were in his position. The squeeze is obviously fine, but I'm not sure about the call. I guess we need to run numbers, but against a TAG raising UTG and shoving over your squeeze, you're looking at a pretty tight range. AKs is behind a lot, and flipping or splitting with the rest I'd think. Pot odds v's equity I guess. Lets see:

Possible range:

Hand 0: 42.806% 27.76% 15.05% 51337164 27822786.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 57.194% 42.15% 15.05% 77946096 27822786.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

Real range:
Hand 0: 41.904% 22.62% 19.28% 32535636 27736416.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 58.096% 38.81% 19.28% 55825068 27736416.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }


He has to call 83 to win 127 (39%) which makes it a call.

Very Tight range:

Hand 0: 23.123% 22.60% 00.52% 9288900 213750.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 76.877% 76.36% 00.52% 31378896 213750.00 { KK+ }

That becomes an easy fold

Hand 0: 32.082% 17.45% 14.63% 10759572 9016902.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 67.918% 53.29% 14.63% 32849568 9016902.00 { KK+, AKs }

Fold.

Hand 0: 37.669% 28.81% 08.86% 29594292 9105960.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 62.331% 53.47% 08.86% 54932028 9105960.00 { QQ+, AKs }

Close fold.

Hand 0: 34.586% 34.22% 00.37% 28123620 302808.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 65.414% 65.05% 00.37% 53461356 302808.00 { QQ+ }

Fold.

Interesting, the big determining factor seems to be if I include AKo in the UTG range. QQ matters, but not as much.

[edit]I had my pot odds wrong, fixed that and conclusions v's ranges.

I'm drawing quite a bit of inspiration following your progress at 100nl Ben. I've now played 1k hands at 100nl myself, and I've gotta thank all that's holy in this world and beyond for POSITIVE VARIANCE.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I'm fairly comfortable now, but still a little nervous about the money. I still tend to think in terms of 50nl monies. If I'm up $25 thats half a buyin. A pfr followed by a cbet where I fold, that $10 seems like a fair bit to the return of my session.

This is sooooooo me at 100nl.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Stacking off without the nuts still has me nervous though.

You, too?

Seriously, Ben, though I've said it a dozen times, you gave me the kick in the backside I needed in September, and I've learned a ton from reading this thread and learning from you about how to analyze the game and think about poker.

I think a lot of micro-grinders could start on page 1 of this thread and read half a page a day and really benefit from it. Like a lot.

QQ hand is megaaaaaaa standard vs anyone that doesn't have a 3bet stat < 3. It's even more standard given that there is more dead money with two callers, so he could even be squeezing lighter.

Oh yeah, very standard. Just posted as an example of a hand that twists my stomach a bit. Even though I know its +EV I still dont want to lose a pot.

Lost my first real flip for stacks at 100nl last night. AA v's combo draw on the flop. Showed it to DaGoat and we both agree that especially since I was IP I'd have been better off calling the c/r on the flop and getting in on safe turns instead. Ran a sort of bad multi-street bluff also lost 1/4 of a buyin, but over 140 hands only finished down half a buyin so happy overall.

id fold the qq, this is aa,kk and ak always.

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

id fold the qq, this is aa,kk and ak always.

I'm pretty sure even knowing this makes it a shove. Am I wrong?

I disagree. I think he has some weaker hands in his range here, meaning I have FE on top of whatever equity I have v's his calling range. I'll do some maths later when I have time.

I have to stop reading this thread.

It is making we want to move up now, instead of waiting for min 3k in mah roll. :P


good stuff so far though, keep it up

I'll get back to that hand tomorrow maybe. Played session tonight and thought I'd post some hands:

Hand 1
No reads, might even be second hand at table.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($66.55)
MP ($59.20)
CO ($50.12)
Button ($99.50)
Hero (SB) ($99)
BB ($102.73)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
2 folds, CO bets $2, 1 fold, Hero raises $8, 1 fold, CO calls $6.50

Flop: ($18) 9, 10, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $8.50, Hero raises $90.50 (All-In)

I half think this is situational tilt, although it is a move I hear discussed on and off. I think I'm running something like 2/25 for 3-betting AK from the blinds and hitting a pair on the flop this year. c/f'ing and b/f'ing are getting really old. If its bad, how bad is it?


Hand 2

Fairly passive but does overvalue hands (raised A6s and cbet A high flop then b/called a shove on the turn for instance).

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($96.65)
UTG ($93.75)
MP ($27.95)
CO ($45)
Hero (Button) ($98.50)
SB ($101.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, A
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero bets $4.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 8, 2, A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $7, CO calls $7

Turn: ($24.50) 4 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $13, CO calls $13

River: ($50.50) 6 (2 players)
CO bets $20.50 (All-In), Hero calls $20.50

Total pot: $91.50


I'd just be more comfortable with him c/c'ing the river than shoving it, but its less than half pot...


Hand 3

UTG is tagfish type, villain is a 48/0 over smallish sample, 50% fold to cbet.


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($107.72)
UTG ($143.45)
MP ($116.47)
Button ($95.50)
Hero (SB) ($103.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, J
UTG bets $3.50, MP calls $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $12, 2 folds, MP calls $9

Flop: ($29.50) A, 9, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $14, MP calls $14

Turn: ($57.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $9.50, Hero folds

Total pot: $57.50


Not sure about the squeeze here. Not enough hands to know if the fish is the type to call/call or not. I think a cbet on an A high flop in 3-bet pot v's a bad player is good here right?


Hand 4

Fun one with results but also questions. Same villain as above about 20 mins later.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($84)
BB ($98)
UTG ($106.92)
MP ($84)
CO ($160)
Hero (Button) ($103.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero bets $4.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 3, 7, K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7, UTG calls $7

Turn: ($24.50) 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($24.50) 7 (2 players)
UTG bets $24.50, Hero raises $91.65 (All-In), UTG calls $67.15

Total pot: $207.80

Results:
Hero had A, A (flush, Ace high).
UTG had 7, 2 (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $204.80

Main questions are against a guy like this do you v'bet the turn or take a free card as I did?


Won a buyin for the session, was nice. Played a bit more aggressive, cost me some $'s but also won me some pots. Might have played a couple hands a bit too fast but they seemed like spots opponents didnt want to fold (then they did).

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

id fold the qq, this is aa,kk and ak always.

I'm pretty sure even knowing this makes it a shove. Am I wrong?

hell no, this is 100nl.

Bj imo theres not enough FE at all to counter the times we are behind. ill admit he may have some % of junk but they are such a small % of his holdings especially considering your utg.

Before I look at that, lets quickly recap April (its May 1 here already). First my graph (edit:updated for first red circle to be earlier in graph) :


Turbulent month. First red circle is pretty close to exactly when I made these couple posts:

Originally Posted by me

Well, managed to lose most of my recent profits in the last two sessions. I still need to review exactly why/how.

I'm getting tired of this. Wondering if I actually have what it takes. Really tempting to just cash out what I've got and give up.

Originally Posted by me again

I've slipped back into a bad habit. Playing because I've found a time I can, instead of when I feel good. Was tired last night but figured I'd play a bit while wife settled our son. -3 buyins. Had to get up to him a couple times during the night, but this morning he actually went back down to sleep in his cot (normally mornings my wife works we end up napping on the couch together) so fired it up again. -4 buyins.
...
This is taking too much time away from other parts of my life if I'm not going to be a winner at it and get something out of it. By the same token, if I do want to get stuff out of it, I need to stop bumming along and really focus on improving and playing right.

And I started talking about quitting if I didnt hit certain goals, etc. Got lots of good advice and helpful support from you guys, had some great chats with DaGoat and Griffey, got my BFP sub, and really started thinking much better about poker and how to get value, hands my opponents were represting, hands I represented, ranges, etc. If you've read through you'll see sometimes I get it wrong, but at least I really like the way I'm trying to think now. I think I'm on the right track. I have run a little like god, but by the same token I think I've been getting much better value from my hands on top of heatering with my cards.

Whilst I'm hugely +EV for the month, I'm only about $200 above EV since that turnaround point (yes this means that downswing should have been MUCH worse). I've also maintained a break even non-showdown winnings for the last 3k hands which is nice.

Second red circle is around when I started at 100nl. Obviously again run pretty good there, but happy with how I've been playing most of the time too.


So from being ready to quit poker after 7.5k hands, I turned around the month in the next 7.5k hands to have my winningest month ever. Trying not to get too carried away since I did run really well, but I do feel I now play winning poker compared to months of feeling like a break even player. Going to have to maintain focus and ride through inevitable downswings, card dead stages, etc, but feel better equipped. We'll see how I go.

This has almost brought me back to my peak of poker winnings (I dropped almost $1k after my withdraw), although bonuses/etc take me above the amount I had after withdrawing.

$2,400 almost exactly. Hopefully a nice buffer for 100nl BRM reqs as I head into May. Very busy few weeks (maybe more) for work, so I probably wont get the same kinds of hands in again, but hope to keep up the study etc. I've become a bit slack about taking notes/etc from vids, so I'm moving the ones that seemed most useful into a 'rewatch' folder and I'll watch again sometime and try to take notes.


Wheee, with bonuses this makes my first $1k month ever!!!

OK, lets look at that QQ UTG hand. This could get convoluted, I havnt done much of this before. Please correct any maths you think I get wrong, I'm rusty.

To recap:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($176.60)
Hero (UTG) ($101.50)
MP ($182.35)
CO ($98.50)
Button ($67)
SB ($99)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, CO calls $3.50, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB raises $17

So for starters, lets go with DG's range. KK+, AKo, AKs (we suspect from the ranges we did previously that adding AKo to the range changes things a lot, but I definately expect a TAG to squeeze that here and I doubt many are going to fold to the shove. If thats his entire range (no bluffs) then we can assume he never folds, so I think we treat this as if the pot was full, so pot odds of

98/(98 + 127) = 47%. QQ is only 40% v's a range of KK+,AKo. So if he literally only ever has that range here, its a fold.

I think we can be more realistic though. I think he's going to have some bluffs in there, and also some hands he might 3bet for value but fold to the shove. Especially this guy v's me, since we have a lot of hands together, I fold to over 60% of 3-bets and he's seen me fold my UTG raises to 3-bets relatively often.

KK+,AK = 2.1% of hands. If we add in some value hands he'll fold and some bluffs, lets say a range of: JJ+,AQs+,AKo,KTs,87s. Thats 3.5% of hands (only 1 combo of QQ), so if he folds everything except KK+,AK he folds 40% of the time. So:

(0.4 * 29) + (0.6 * ( (0.4 * 125) - (0.6 * 98))) = 11.6 + (0.6 * -8.8) = 11.6 - 5.28 = $6.32. Which is fairly +EV and an easy shove.

Lets say he chooses to flat with AQs and JJ though, leaving QQ, KTs and 87s as his raise/fold range. Thats 2.8% of hands he raises, so:

(0.32 * 29) + (0.68 * -8.8) = 9.28 - 5.984 = $3.29.


So lets look at it another way. Break even is:

29x - 8.8(1-x) = 0
=> 29x = 8.8(1 - x)
=> 3.3x = 1-x
=> 4.3x = 1
=> x = 1/4.3 = 0.23.

So we need him to fold 23% of the time for this to be neutral EV. If his stackoff range is 2.1% then:

2.1 = Y * 0.77
=> Y = 2.1 / 0.77 = 2.72

So he needs to be raising 2.72% of hands of which 0.61 he'll fold. This is approximately equal to 2 suited combos, or 2/3 of a single offsuit combo, or 1/2 of a combo regardless of suitedness, or less than 2 PPs. So if he raises:
- half his AQ hands, or
- JTs, 89s
- KTo two thirds of the time
- JJ always and TT half the time
Then the shove is break even EV. Any more hands makes it +EV.

I think the dead money helps, as we pick up a fair bit the amount of times he folds.

Things are going well, just two short sessions so far this month (was away for the weekend) but up well over 2.5 buyins from them. Roll is sitting at 2670 and poker life is good. I'm obviously running hot (not in equity sense, but hitting hands and getting paid), but I think I'm also doing a much better job of getting value from my medium strength hands, with a minimum of spew (although tbh I've made some dubious call downs where I was probably lucky rather than good when it turns out villains were bluffing).

Anyway, been a great week or two at poker and feeling great, which kind of makes this suck. I've worked out that I really need to avoid poker for the next two weeks. The heap of work I've spoken about is building up. I havnt done enough the last week or two, and this is a pretty big deal. So much as I want to jump right on and do a session now, for the next two weeks I'm off poker. Hopefully that means avoiding FTR as well.

I've taken breaks before, but when I've been running bad which has been easier, I think taking a break when I'm running good will be tough, but its gotta be done .

Bleh, just got sent a special bonus to be cleared by end of May. Would be close if I was playing normally, but I dont intend to play for another week, so probably wont do it. $250, would have been nice

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Things are going well, just two short sessions so far this month (was away for the weekend) but up well over 2.5 buyins from them. Roll is sitting at 2670 and poker life is good.

nice!
keep on keeping on

I'm interested in this, i'm going to write a theory post a month for a while - mostly to get my ideas critiqued. This medium strength hands thing is important, we all know how to shove the nuts and check middle pair behind on the river - but...

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I think I'm also doing a much better job of getting value from my medium strength hands, with a minimum of spew (although tbh I've made some dubious call downs where I was probably lucky rather than good when it turns out villains were bluffing).

I can try to find some examples, but largely its been a matter of really looking at ranges, and realizing just how weak even good players will call bets with. To a large extent I've thrown all pot control/SPR considerations out, and if I think they'll call with more hands that I beat than beat me, I bet. I also tend towards the larger side on those bets, since again I've realised they still call with weak ranges to those weak bets.

Now this thread is a bit of an edge case: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...gk-t85025.html where its closer than I make out really. However what M2M and other newer players dont realise, is just how weak even a 15/2 is there. In a multiway pot, you can easily put all AXs in his range, and people hate folding TP. Also notice M2Ms flop cbet size, its barely over 1/2 pot. People arent going to call .75 but fold to $1 there. He's so worried about winning a small pot from a TT type hand, that he's missing the chance to stack worse aces.


For a long time my poker results felt like they depended on big pots. Often my results reflected my big pot results almost exactly. If I played 400 hands and my only big pots were losing 2 stacks, then I'd finish down two buyins, stuff like that. Recently a lot of my results are coming from the small/med pots instead. Largely because a lot of the small pots I used to win are becoming medium pots, and a lot of the medium pots I used to lose are becoming small (because I used to "pot control" medium strength hands, and not pick good spots to barrel my air).

A discussion with Griffey which really helped me identify what made good or bad barrelling cards helped a LOT. I used to lose money trying to get people to fold certain hands, instead of considering how cards changed board texture and whether I could use that to my advantage.

Also the obvious. I target the right people at the right times. With the right reads in the right spots I'll double barrel middle pair or A high for value against the right opponents. Where maybe I used to lean towards "ahh he's probably weak but I'll just call the small donk just in case", now I raise 'em up and get paid.

Interesting feelings today. Reading that thread linked above. Some micro guys getting...shall we say, very dismissive of my replies disagreeing with them, including some genius conclusions that since certain players agree with them all other conclusions are wrong. My initial reaction is to get a bit pissed, theres nothing in it for me to give help/advice so fk them if they're gonna get pissed at me for disagreeing with their conclusions, then I stop for a second and think, it just doesnt matter. Their loss, not mine. Again, I have nothing tied up in it. I dont really have a poker ego, in fact, if anything I have an anti-ego. I'd prefer anyone I play against think I'm bad, not good.

Makes me think though. I've posted a number of hands where respected posters have disagreed with the right play. I see a thread like that as a great opportunity. What a great chance to get into the heads of good players and work out WHY they disagree in this spot. Theres almost certainly a nugget or two of info in there to be mined that can improve my understanding of the game.

Other people just want to be right.

"Robb, iopq and bj are correct and spenda, fnord, daven, and spoon**now are incorrect, lulz."

Sure you could laugh, or you could realise that all 6 of those people have beaten micro stakes and moved onto 100nl or better, and are taking time to reply to a 10nl hand. Just perhaps its worth considering both sides and working out why they might disagree.

Just because no one says “hey you’re right and they’re wrong” doesn’t mean no one gained value from your thoughts. It’s kinda redundant to post in a thread and say as much when it’s already got enough thoughtless side taking and spew. Good threads generally have solid players disagreeing imo and I try not to bog them down unless necessary for my own understanding.

Yeah, agree. I guess I just hope someone reading it came away with things like:

- I wonder why people like Ben and Spenda disagree on ranges here? Maybe Ben plays more nits who will still call with weak ranges here?

- Hmm, shouldnt they be commenting on this particular player though?

- Ahh, the only postflop read is "passive" and we're given no idea what sort of hands this 15/2 likes to play pre-flop.

- Hmm, for MY game, what I take away from this is that I should pay attention to how opponents play postflop and make notes on how they play certain hands, then a spot like this becomes so trivial I dont even need to post it.


As it is, I think the spot is pretty marginal, and therefore in a vacuum not a lot of extra value either way. The interesting part of the thread is working out why people come to different conclusions.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Just perhaps its worth considering both sides and working out why they might disagree.

I've been thinking about this a good bit, too. I used to HATE threads where the respected posters disagreed. I was rereading some old nutsinho threads, and it's interesting seeing ISF, nuts, miffed, meeloche, galapagos, and mcatdog splitting over the right play - everything from fold to call to jam. I think what I missed when I read them (and didn't get anything out of them) a year ago was that they put just enough in their posts that you can piece together a very complicated thought process. And you can learn a lot about how to think about poker.

Maybe they'll get it someday. It certainly took me awhile. At least I didn't get huffy with the posters who were trying to help me out, tho.

FWIW, I used to totally tilt when fnord posted in my threads. I could never figure out what the heck he was talking about. In the past few months, I've really developed a ton of respect for him and his thoughts on the game. And I even understand about half of what he's sayin' now.

Yeah, working out where they're coming from really helps. Fnords perfect at it, leaves just enough clues for you to work it out if you think about it.


Anyway, all that aside, something occurred to me today. Last month I reached my goal in poker. I just forgot about it, because it was an old goal. Probably not even a goal since I was always kinda fuzzy about it, but a target. Basically, back around the time I started writing this Op, I had a rough goal of earning about $1k per month at poker. Last month I did that for the first time.

I'm not sure if I've ever really nailed down my hopes/plans for poker in here. I wanted to earn a set base, starting amount (which was and still is $5k) and from there I start spending money. Basically if I want to buy something, I earn twice that in poker then withdraw half of it. So if I get to $5k and want to buy $1k worth of something, I get my roll to $7k and withdraw $1k. That would leave me with $6k to start again with, so my roll would gradually keep growing. At the time I was thinking of buying stuff around the $500-$1k mark, so if I earnt $1k per month I could make withdraws every 1-2 months for my spendings. Spendings basically being toys I would feel a little guilty about buying from my day job given we have a mortgage we're paying off/etc.

Over time though, the list of things I want to buy eventually have grown, and started to include more expensive items, so my goals have changed. Likewise where I think I can get to has changed. $1k per month is a fairly easy target at 100nl (if you're a winning player there), but I'm hoping to become a winning 200, and even 400nl player. If I do, that should mean I look at earning more like 2-4k per month at poker.

I dunno, long way off and I'm really trying not to focus on that side of things just now. Atm I just want to win. The focus on money and items was a big part of my emotional problems a little while back. Just found it interesting today when I realised I actually had one of my goal months and barely acknowledged it, since my goals have grown in the meantime.

Sorry but why are you taking that thread to your blog? That's completely uneccessary.

I dont really understand, I'm not disagreeing with you based on something personal. I'm disgreeing because I simply don't agree. It doesn't matter whose mouth it came from.I gave a deep analysis on the hand afterwards and it was ignored entirely. You completely ignored it and continued to assume 15% vpip on a HUD means someone flats 15% of hands preflop.

So if you could please read the full analysis I gave on the hand, because it's clear you still haven't. fwiw I read all of yours.

Im not angry or anything, i just simply disagreed, showed you why, yet you continue to ignore everthing around you and assume I'm wrong because I haven't been around as long as you.

An experienced poker player and myself analyzed the hand in the IRC and he pointed out numerous areas where your thought process was very flawed, so don't assume you're right just because you've been playing for 'x' number of years.

" I wonder why people like Ben and Spenda disagree on ranges here? Maybe Ben plays more nits who will still call with weak ranges here? "

This shouldn't affect how you look at an independant hand.

"- Hmm, for MY game, what I take away from this is that I should pay attention to how opponents play postflop and make notes on how they play certain hands, then a spot like this becomes so trivial I dont even need to post it."

I do this too, but there wasn't a particular hand this player played that was worth noting appartently, or I was busy taking notes on other players etc. Please don't make assumptions about my game such as 'm2m doesn't pay attention' because that is truly just disrepsectful and I don't feel there's any need to say things like that when you've never even seen me play a session. Sorry if this is sounding harsh but I'd rather not have you talk trash about my game in your blog. I don't publicy post what I think of you or your game or whatever in mine, and I don't intend to. Why do you think I don't post many hands? - the answer is in your response.

One hand with no specific strong read and then you take shots at me and my game? I fail to understand the purpose of this other than to just make yourself feel better/enlighten your ego etc.

I discussed the hand in that thread, and my thoughts on that thread in here. My blog/op where I talk about stuff. Pretty simple. Dont like it, dont read it. Since you do:

I didnt ignore your analysis, I disagreed with it. Different thing.

If you read through what I've written here, you'll see I dont assume I'm right. I basically dont care much one way or another. Long term, how you play that hand will make very little difference to your results, its a marginal spot of marginal value.

You've posted a few hands now, where your main aim is to try to make a small amount of money from the bottom of your opponents range, when you should be trying to make the most money from their full range. Thats pretty much the full sum of my point in that thread. Not the best example hand for it, but its been a recurring pattern. Rather than take that on though you feel the need to write essays on why you were right.

My point in the posts I made here is that you (and others) seem more interested in trying to learn by rote how certain people would play in a spot, rather than give consideration to alternate ideas and try to learn poker.

"This shouldn't affect how you look at an independant hand."

Yes, it should. Any time posters disagree you should be trying to work out why. It often comes back to either their own image, or the kinds of opponents they usually play. If you can interpret where they're coming from, you get multiple pieces of advice instead of just one.

fwiw, I didnt think you were the one being dismissive, I just felt you were being defensive rather than taking on board a disagreeing opinion. It was someone else who I felt was dismissing not only myself but other posters opinions based only on who was who.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Over time though, the list of things I want to buy eventually have grown, and started to include more expensive items, so my goals have changed. Likewise where I think I can get to has changed. $1k per month is a fairly easy target at 100nl (if you're a winning player there), but I'm hoping to become a winning 200, and even 400nl player. If I do, that should mean I look at earning more like 2-4k per month at poker.

^^^ very cool

@m2m - When Ben takes time to analyze your game, he's usually got a point. Check out What to do when someone says you suck at poker. Interesting story, fwiw.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

fwiw, I didnt think you were the one being dismissive, I just felt you were being defensive rather than taking on board a disagreeing opinion. It was someone else who I felt was dismissing not only myself but other posters opinions based only on who was who.

Ok cool. I was trying to take an objective approach to analyzing the situation, though as we all know this can be pretty difficult when it comes to the game since our thoughts are influenced by our perceptions/experiences etc.

Brutal session. Probably happy to lose less than a buyin overall. Down on EV from losing KK < 89 on Q94tt flop, but mainly it was non-ai pots. People just kept hitting their 3-5 outs on me. AJ v's AQ flop AJ5 take a CS to value town and the rivers a Q (luckily turn was a K so river checked through). QTs v's 57s on Q52r flop in 3-bet pot where he bet pot on flop, turned his 7. Also just a steadly leak of $s from b/f type spots. Seemed every time I found a spot I thought was b/f I got raised. Every single time. Likewise a heap of folding to 3-bets pf. Ahh well.

Fairly happy. Losing $80 after all that is probably a success. Keeping my head definately was. At one stage I started to lose it a bit, but took a deep breath, reminded myself that it happens sometimes in poker, its to be expected, and that most times I get their money in those spots. Felt fairly good after that.


p.s., I'm allowed to bitch now, sessions over.

Fun hand. I played some HU and lost a bit to a weird player so didnt totally make up for earlier in the day, but close:


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($170.73)
Hero (Button) ($112.70)
SB ($102.15)
BB ($170.55)
UTG ($128.90)
MP ($96.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 5
3 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) A, 2, 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4

Turn: ($14.50) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

River: ($30.50) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $19, Hero raises $97.70 (All-In), BB calls $78.70

Total pot: $225.90

Results:
Hero had K, 5 (flush, Ace high).
BB had 8, 10 (two pair, tens and eights).
Outcome: Hero won $222.90


Best part, he called me a fish in chat afterwards .


I call the HU player weird, because he was hard to categorize. I lost most of my money making bluffs in good spots where I represent a very strong range and he called me really light, but then when I had stuff he couldnt fold fast enough. Folded a lot pf to raises, but 0% fold to 3-bet and called my only 4-bet with ATo. I dunno, maybe he just couldnt fold any piece but every time I had something he never had a piece.

superuser, imo

Just a short 1/2 hr 100 hand session this morning before getting into work. Won almost a buyin, nudged me up to $2700. From a strictly poker winnings (no rakeback/bonuses/etc) I'm about $200 above my previous peak in winnings which is nice.

One concern I have with my game and winning atm, is I have definate stationy tendencies. I think I'm calling bets I should probably fold, and catching way more bluffs (or just crappy value bets, hard to tell sometimes) than I deserve. Its not the bulk of my winnings, but it definately accounts for some fair amount of them. Example from this session just gone:

Opponent is 50/0 fish over small sample:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($119.05)
BB ($102.45)
Hero (UTG) ($121.20)
MP ($150.75)
CO ($109.10)
Button ($96.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A
Hero bets $3.50, 3 folds, SB calls $3, 1 fold

Flop: ($8) A, J, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $4.50, Hero raises $15, SB calls $10.50

Turn: ($38) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($38) A (2 players)
SB bets $38, Hero calls $38

Total pot: $114

Results:
SB had J, Q (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Hero had K, A (three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $111


Now I'm trying to get away from seeing monsters under the bed, and assuming opponent always has a flush in this spot, but that line just screams a flush from a bad player. "Sneaky" trap on turn followed by desperation value psb on river. In my head I'm saying fold, fold, fold, while my hand is clicking the call button. Its not terrible, I think he has a worse A some percentage of the time here, but not sure if enough.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Some micro guys getting...shall we say, very dismissive of my replies disagreeing with them, including some genius conclusions that since certain players agree with them all other conclusions are wrong.
........................
Makes me think though. I've posted a number of hands where respected posters have disagreed with the right play. I see a thread like that as a great opportunity. What a great chance to get into the heads of good players and work out WHY they disagree in this spot. Theres almost certainly a nugget or two of info in there to be mined that can improve my understanding of the game.

agree completely.

Some of the most valuable threads for me this year have been when I posted CERTAIN that I was right - and then gone on to think and learn a lot when consensus among (list e.g. nutsinho, fnord, deanglow, zwifti, take your pick) a bunch of good players is that I am wrong. The best thing to do is to completely pick apart the rationale, lay it all on the table, and have it pointed out exactly where you've gone wrong. I need to start doing that more again - especially now that I have loads of time to do so e.g. from ages ago back in limit daze
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ws-t60040.html

Originally Posted by bjsaust

"Robb, iopq and bj are correct and spenda, fnord, daven, and spoon**now are incorrect, lulz."

i figure that if anyone agrees with anything that any of the listed 6 above say then they're probably stupid
Maybe we should start offering classes in how to skin-a-cat or sacrifice-a-goat or something...

Originally Posted by bjsaust

fwiw, I didnt think you were the one being dismissive, I just felt you were being defensive rather than taking on board a disagreeing opinion. It was someone else who I felt was dismissing not only myself but other posters opinions based only on who was who.

I assume you mean me.

I wasn't dismissing you as players, I was waiving the white flag because the discussion was going nowhere. M2M and I had discussed the hand with players better than us and had come to the conclusion that many of the responses were based on incorrect thinking patterns and our attempts to elucidate them were either not responded to or given what I felt was an inappropriate lack of consideration. Disagreement is fundamental to the advancement of knowledge in any field, and it should be encouraged, but it unfortunately oftentimes leads to mistreatment. I'm sorry you got the wrong impression.

I have over 90k hands in HEM db:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...17.html#883917

2nd ever straight flush

Hmm, I seem to like winning just under a buyin. Of 10 sessions this month, I've won more than $90 but less than $100 4 times. Up just over 5 buyins over 1500 hands so far (not playing much because of work). Last session was $90.65 over 51 hands. Should have been more, I cant believe I didnt stack this guy:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($24.48)
Hero (CO) ($99.50)
Button ($100)
SB ($226.40)
BB ($113.34)
UTG ($95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, 8
UTG bets $3.50, MP calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($12) 3, 5, 8 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $8, UTG calls $8, 1 fold

Turn: ($28) 4 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($28) 3 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $20, UTG calls $20

Total pot: $68

Results:
UTG didn't show {gah frustrating, he had QQ with the Q of clubs}
Hero had 8, 8 (full house, eights over threes).
Outcome: Hero won $65


Overpair + FD on flop, hits flush on turn. I mean, well done him for not losing a stack, but weaktight much?

Btw, for newer/learning players reading this, that river is like the epitomy of a b/f spot for villain. I'll call with worse hands, but rarely will I bet with worse, and I'm extremely unlikely to raise either with worse are as a bluff. He loses just as much by calling my bet when he c/c's, but if he led river I might call with 2P, TP, worse flushes, etc.

Heres my biggest winning hand of the short session, and a fair example of my point to Robb about going hard with weaker hands v's bad players. This guy hated to fold. I missed the action but he got ai with 66 on a 52532 board, so whilst that indicates CS tendencies, I'm sure he must have raised at some point to get there. Call down with A7 on JJ7XX board v's the same guy who value towned his 66 with AA just before with big bets.

So his psb donk isnt fun, but we know he's bad, so we go with it. He's already lost over $100, we dont have much time to take our share:


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($92)
CO ($103.30)
Hero (Button) ($100)
SB ($127.80)
BB ($247.50)
UTG ($63)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero bets $4.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 9, 10, 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $10.50, Hero raises $75.50, UTG calls $48 (All-In)

Turn: ($127.50) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($127.50) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $127.50

Results:
Hero had J, J (one pair, Jacks).
UTG had 9, K (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero won $141.50


I feel a bit like I'm hit and running, but hopefully its mainly a combination of having other things to do and only allowing myself a short session, and usually I'm stopping when my current tables turn bad and I close them and just dont reopen others. Plus...well, if I win at this rate hit and running, I'll take it .

Nice work