Quote Originally Posted by Vinland
I'm a bit confused. I cbet quite a bit (90% of the time but small sample size) because I play tight ie. not a lot of hands (about 11 VPIP). If I'm up against a tight player with say 99 and the board comes 4,8,Q rainbow....I always cbet. I agree the only hands he calls with are hands that beat me but there are so few of them that he would hold, wouldnt he fold most of the time? If the flop was something like X,K,Q then yes....I put the breaks on.
You gain 9.5bbs if he folds on a dry flop, not a terrible thing at all and often the correct play. But with weak-tights they will check behind this flop if they miss and have a stab on the turn if you check again, or even the river (yeah that's a really believable line...). Missed overs are drawing to 6 outs, underpairs to just 2, so more often than not they won't catch a thing and you'll catch an extra bet, although I rarely check both flop and turn. I guess I'm just experimenting with something Sklansky said about allowing your opponents to play incorrectly, I just hope I'm doing it right. Once again, not to be attempted on drawy boards. But the thing is with a typical weak-tight player they'll only bet that flop if they had the Q, and if they had the Q they wouldn't fold to your c-bet anyway. If they would bet the flop without a Q, this is where floating has advantages (3rd bullet syndrome).

Quote Originally Posted by Vinland
But if they are tight players, how do you know its a bluff? If we dont want to cbet them, why would we be more willing to call a bet on the turn from them?

This is an area that I'm trying to work on.....I know I cbet too much b/c I dont know where to pick my spots well. I dont like cbetting total call stations b/c if after the flop I have say AQo and the flop is 3,6,T with 2 suited, I have a hard time putting him on a range if he calls me. If he's a station he'll call w/ his pair of 6's or 3's, he'll call with any FD. If the 3rd suit hits I'm at a loss. If he holds something stupid like J6, well he still beats my A high...

There's just so much to learn.....its fun but overwhelming. I look at what I knew 6 months ago and I laugh.....hopefully I can laugh in another 6 months at what I know now....and Im doing great at 2nl...
How do we know it's a bluff? Reads, reads, reads. It's not worth even attempting against a totally honest player (check-check-check oh damn I should have just taken it at the flop), or a looser player, because their range is a lot wider (not often anyway, read the board and make a judgement call). There is a special type of nit that will check behind the flop, maybe even turn, and stab at the river thinking you're weak. These are the ones from whom you can make an extra 20bbs a night. It also has the side-effect of turning them honest against you afterwards. God I hope I've explained myself here, I'll be back on ftr tomorrow with some hh's to show what I mean and some example villains/textures where this is a good play.