Quote Originally Posted by langaan View Post
Griffey/Daven, I would agree with this statement if I were speaking to a beginner who is just getting on their feet, on the premise that redline winnings are maybe something that shouldn't be focused on when you are learning how to play the game. But realistically, and I mean know disrespect, but I believe the redline winnings is one of biggest, if not the biggest, indicator of post flop play.

In my personal opinion, the redline is equally as important as the blue line, and if each of them isn't given the correct amount of attention/improvement, then there is $$ left at the tables.

see picture of my graph that shows where my redline problems began, when they were resolved, and teh effect of my winrate (greenline)

** Note that the blue line showdown winnings is consistent all the way through, so there is no correlating loss of showdown value when my non-showdown improves.

You will see in the chart that I lost control of my redline for 10K hands, and it cost me just under 40 buy ins. You can also see that my winrate nearly doubled as soon as I stabilized the redline again.

give me your thoughts guys, im really interested in some discussion about this that isn't like the million pi$$ing contests we can read about re: redline winnings lol....Attachment 818
Historically on this site, my graphs have been one of very few ppl who had a huge upward redline, and a break-even or downward blue line, and a marginally OK increasing green line.

There are so many variables / factors that influence red line that it's hard to say a blanket statement like "improving red line is important".

Main factors which influence red line:
1) Bluffing frequency - Barreling etc: Sure if you can find perfect spots to add double barrel bluffs or triple barrel bluffs or bluff shoves that will rarely get called, then yes that will help your red line and not hurt your blue line. But I wouldn't say you're simply trying to "improve your red line" in this case, I would say you're trying to find more profitable bluffing opportunities.

If you bluff too often/poorly then the times it works your red line will go way up, and the times it doesn't your blue line will take a hit.

2) Calling frequency - If you become a huge station, your red line will sky rocket. You won't be throwing away non-showdown losses because you'll be going to the river so much, so your blue line will take the gains or losses.

Combine points 1 and 2 and become a Bluffing Calling Station - Then your red line will literally NEVER go down. The only situation it would go down for this kind of player is when they triple barrel a river as a bluff, get shoved on and have to fold.

So yes, instead of "improving your red line" I would say you should work on:
1) Finding better bluffing opportunities / spots for profitable bluffs
2) Find hands where you are currently folding to barrels in spots that should be +EV calling down and calling the river.

Also your graph didn't work above for me, but any basis on a 10k hand sample is FAR too small.