Operation: Switch from 6-max to FR

I've been playing 6max almost since the beginning and it has been suggested to me many times that I should try FR as the swings at 6max are tilting the hell out of me and have been for a while now. So that's what I'm going to do. I had played 6max very tight (16/10/2.5) so I should be able to play FR at the same or lower.

So I'll be playing 4 tables at 10NL FR on PS starting yesterday. BR is at $400 so I'm over rolled and ready to learn.

GL! Very interested to see how this goes, as I'm considering doing the same at some point in the semi-near future.

So far it's not going so good. Down 7 BIs at 10NL FR playing 4 tables.
I'll post some hands later but my losses are the usual KK<AA pf, AKs<KK, set< str8, set < river flush, or 77<7T on 568K9 against a super CS.

At the moment I'm not really getting hardly any hands JJ+ for some reason. I'm stealing alot more than I was at 6max as everyone seems really nitty.

Should I play 50bb minimum tables or standard tables? I've been playing the 50bb min tables but it seems like it's the same nits at every table plus a couple or CS and a maniac or two.

Playing at about 15/11/2.5 which is close to what I was playing at 6max
It's new so I'm not worried about losing in the beginning.
It's amazing that you can open UTG with AA, KK and get 4 or 5 callers.

I'm hardly playing any hands from UTG, UTG+1, MP1 unless it's 10+, AK, AQs. After that I'm essentially playing 6max when it's folded to me.
I'm pretty much nut camping but the nuts aren't coming.

I've been running bad all month so hopefully things will change soon but if they don't, meh. If I continue to run bad and/or play bad and I have to drop back to 5NL then I will.

Any more advice?

Are you auto felting AK preflop? I wouldn't. I've only played probably 20k hands at FR (100NL and lower) and so far it seems pretty boring/easy/coolergalores. I think you can still play like 77-99 UTG as well as KQs and maybe QJs I don't know. Just basically never call with anything preflop but a PP unless they are opening too much. Also, avoid calling with low PP OOP a lot of the times. Be aggressive in smallish pots where villain throws out really really small bets. Make sure to play almost always IP.

Look for loose tables. Play 20bb tables because that's where the fish are. Look for fish. Hunt for fish. Don't be so eager to stack off unless you have a read that you're good. Make another video @ full ring with commentary. I didn't really watch your last one because it was 6max and I didn't feel qualified to comment on it. I do feel qualified to have opinions about full ring.

Originally Posted by kmind

Are you auto felting AK preflop? I wouldn't. I've only played probably 20k hands at FR (100NL and lower) and so far it seems pretty boring/easy/coolergalores. I think you can still play like 77-99 UTG as well as KQs and maybe QJs I don't know. Just basically never call with anything preflop but a PP unless they are opening too much. Also, avoid calling with low PP OOP a lot of the times. Be aggressive in smallish pots where villain throws out really really small bets. Make sure to play almost always IP.

Not auto felting AK for sure esp against nits. I'll add 77+ UTG and maybe KQs. Prob won't add QJs as I usually get in tough spots when I hit TP type hands. I do call OOP with PPs alot but only with 20x set odds. Seems I lose alot with PPs trying to set mine. I get a up half a BI or so then get PPs multiple times and miss the set and then have to reload. Frustrating

Originally Posted by Jason

Look for loose tables. Play 20bb tables because that's where the fish are. Look for fish. Hunt for fish. Don't be so eager to stack off unless you have a read that you're good. Make another video @ full ring with commentary. I didn't really watch your last one because it was 6max and I didn't feel qualified to comment on it. I do feel qualified to have opinions about full ring.

I'll try to find loose tables with at least 3 full stacks and some shorties. I was doing this before but was losing to PPs with AK, AQs, KQs, TT and JJ (when they had KK+) so I quit and hunted 50bb man games.
I will make another vid maybe tonight.

Last night went much better. Up 3 BIs. I finally started getting JJ+ hands and alot of them. Stacked one guy twice in a row when I got AA in two consecutive hands at the same table. He was short stacked though.
KK<AKo against a guy who apoligized for hitting an A after a pf shove. Apologized?

My patience really got tested on one table where villian was a 97/25/1.8 over 50+ hands and he kept hitting every hand hard (trips, str8s, etc) and really frustrating everyone at the table and he was 400bb deep. My vpip was down to 7 when I finally got AK UTG, I raised and of course he called. Board was AK62Qss. I value bet every street and shoved river and he called with 6Jo. A few hands later I got KK and hit a set on the flop on an AKx board. I got half a BI from him on this one.

Unless there's like a ton of people in the pot you can fold a lot with a PP OOP. I mean think about it you can never bluff and you also have to win a big pot OOP. Both things are tough. You may want to just play a tighter range OOP than the PFR. This can allow the PFR making bigger mistakes into cbetting/barrelling a lot into a tighter range. But I mean if they are stacking off nonstop to sets then keep calling with them.

You were at a table of mine for a bit that had a maniac. Yeah you ran into some serious shit.....I cant remember what villain had but he was bad and got lucky.

If you go to showdown after calling a bet on the river against the passives, you need a strong hand. Thats what I have really noticed. Dont call a river bet or call a reraise unless you have a very good hand.

I am finding the same problem w/ low-mid PP. I call too much esp OOP. The probelm is, unless villain hits the flop hard, you wont get your set paid off enough even when you do hit it. I'm trying to call with them only against tight players or some semi tight player who opend UTG

I made a video earlier for about 45 minutes 2 tabling at 10NL FR. It's pretty boring but I'll process it overnight as it takes several hours and post it tomorrow. I got a bit distracted trying to find other tables as the ones I was playing were pretty tight.

Later tonight I played 6 tables at FR for about 1k hands. Looks like that is the optimum number of tables to keep me from getting bored but allows me to make some notes and such. I was up a little over 5 BIs after the session was finished. Looks like I finally found the fold button again. I pretty much nut camped the entire session. I think I like FR even though I'm breaking even overall. For some reason FR makes me think about ranges more as there are usually more villians involved in FR than in 6max.

I've done a few things that are probably more EV than I've been doing in the past.

-Not calling with PP OOP unless there are more than 2-3 involved.
-Not calling shoves with TPTK hands on wet boards
-being more aggro with decent hands
-Folding
-Folding

I'm still having a bit of trouble with the shortys when they shove and I have medium pps or suited broadways.

Video processing time starts now...

Do an EV calc to figure out the breakeven point for calling a shove from a 20bb stack. Do this for when you open in the CO/BTN and they shove from the blinds or if they just open shove and its on you, or if they shove and you're last to act in the bb. Go into pokerstove and learn what you can call profitably given the breakeven point(s) you found vs their shoving range. This will help you MASSIVELY vs. 20bb sized stacks. You're effectively turning their game around on them. Ugh, there was something else I meant to tell you, but I it's slipped my mind lol. I'll post later if I remember.

We still gotta do that sweat, I'll hit you up sometime this week. PM me your Skype name.

Edit: Remembered as soon as I clicked send lol. When you're OTB or in the CO and the BTN is nitty and there's a semi-decent 20bb stack or one that just seems to shove vs any open in the blinds, minraise or 2.5x as a steal. You will lose a LOT less. That .5-1bb per steal might not seem like much, but every time they jam on you and you fold, you saved that much as opposed to you opening to 3-3.5bb. It also makes it less profitable for them to shove, but they typically won't adjust their 3bet jamming ranges. Hamstringing 20bb nits ftw!

Another thing to keep in mind, if you find a halfways decent 20bb mass tabling reg, note if he 3bet jams a wider range from the blinds vs a steal. There are some (even at 10nl) that will 3bet shove Axs, Kxs, SCs, etc vs a BTN/CO/HJ raise. If you notice them doing these kind of things, you can widen your calling range vs their shoves as its going to be considerably more profitable. All the while you're cutting even DEEPER into them bitches' pockets.

2 Tabling 10NL-FR
Pretty boring overall

File is about 65MB

Download 10NL FR.wmv

Awesome job at the end. Keep it up man! Downloading video now but going to bed soon.

left table right at the start , shorty on your left shoved two of the first 4 or 5 hands and you missed it showing a QJs with the one he was called on. then he was a buit of a maniac which makes that seat a bit dodgy unless you hit a monster.

Use the auto top up feature - saves so much time

pavel you called LAGgy - seemed like he was more limping in and playing fit or fold . giving his high Aggression stats.

would have been good to have seen what tables you were choosing from as you seemed to pick some real duds.

HEM is now up to 1.10.3. If the hud disappears , relaunch the hud from the HEM dropdown menu.

You instamucked KJo on the button after saying the guys from the blinds fold almost 100% . I'm literally opening 72o there. I'll comment more in a sec as I've only watched the beginning. Also, in one hand you said "they probably have two pair or a flush draw" you should be more specific in what flush draws/two pairs they can actually have given preflop.

edit 1: very next hand you fold 54o in the CO and every is still a complete nit. Please open.

edit 2: You insta muck QJs on the left table and say "QJ is a fold" without looking at how many people are left and WHICH players are left. You can definitely raise there for value against the donk half stack and then can also play profitably vs. the others. You know they're folding almost always preflop or to a cbet.

edit 3: "K9o against a shorty I'm not going to steal". Meh you can def open/fold. If it's suited you def need to open.

edit 4: wtf is wufwugy doing at your stakes?

edit 5: you instamucked J5o in the sb when the bb is a huge nit (I'm seeing a theme)

edit 6: 65cc and the guy donks into you on a T32cc board. You can make a case for raising but calling maybe better because the gay shit he does end up getting it in with will be beating you. On the turn though you say you're getting 2:1 odds when you are really getting like 3.3:1 odds. You forgot to add in your call to the total pot.

edit 7: You insta3bet an UTG open (who's playing 6/3 so far) with AKo IP. Because you aren't going to felt this, just call preflop. It tightens your preflop calling range a ton. He calls and you bet near pot on a K64r board. Are you thinking about his range? At these stakes, either bet like half pot (even lower if you want) or check. Your goal is to get 2 streets of value, obviously 3 if possible but that's highly unlikely.

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

left table right at the start , shorty on your left shoved two of the first 4 or 5 hands and you missed it showing a QJs with the one he was called on. then he was a buit of a maniac which makes that seat a bit dodgy unless you hit a monster.

Use the auto top up feature - saves so much time

pavel you called LAGgy - seemed like he was more limping in and playing fit or fold . giving his high Aggression stats.

would have been good to have seen what tables you were choosing from as you seemed to pick some real duds.

HEM is now up to 1.10.3. If the hud disappears , relaunch the hud from the HEM dropdown menu.

When I use the auto top up feature I lose track of how much I'm losing but then again this was a problem at 6max. I'll try it again. Thx

Weren't many good tables to chose from for some reason. Maybe it was the time of day. It was about 5pm cst. I usually sort by players/flop then look at pot size, then look at stack sizes. I just remembered that you can sort in this sequence on PS by right clicking columns.

I have always had this problem with HEM. I have it set to "always on top" cause if I don't the displays is erratic at best. I'll update it again to see if it helps.

This may sound like an excuse but making a video is very distracting and I miss alot of the action while doing so. Instead of focusing on the tables I'm trying to not sound like too much of an idiot. It pissed me off that the tables were crap and I missed alot of the actions trying to dump these tables and find new ones.
/whiny excuse

I may make another video showing how I tables select. If won't take as long to make and more importantly it won't take 4+ hours to process.

Thanks for the comments

Originally Posted by kmind

You instamucked KJo on the button after saying the guys from the blinds fold almost 100% . I'm literally opening 72o there. I'll comment more in a sec as I've only watched the beginning. Also, in one hand you said "they probably have two pair or a flush draw" you should be more specific in what flush draws/two pairs they can actually have given preflop..

09:07 Def should not have folded KJo. Distracted by trying to explain my stats. /whiny excuse

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 1: very next hand you fold 54o in the CO and every is still a complete nit. Please open.
..

Really? 54o?

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 2: You insta muck QJs on the left table and say "QJ is a fold" without looking at how many people are left and WHICH players are left. You can definitely raise there for value against the donk half stack and then can also play profitably vs. the others. You know they're folding almost always preflop or to a cbet.
..

11:09 QJs from UTG+1 is open? I guess so as there's only 6 in hand

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 3: "K9o against a shorty I'm not going to steal". Meh you can def open/fold. If it's suited you def need to open.
..

13:23 Guess I need to stove this one. K9o against a 35/24/- in sb and a 20bb stack in bb doesn't seem to be a good line.

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 4: wtf is wufwugy doing at your stakes?
..

Could it be THE wufwugy?

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 5: you instamucked J5o in the sb when the bb is a huge nit (I'm seeing a theme)
..

14:03? I was in CO with a 33/22 btn, a unknown shorty in sb and a 28/28 in the bb. I don't see this.

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 6: 65cc and the guy donks into you on a T32cc board. You can make a case for raising but calling maybe better because the gay shit he does end up getting it in with will be beating you. On the turn though you say you're getting 2:1 odds when you are really getting like 3.3:1 odds. You forgot to add in your call to the total pot.
..

17:14 How should I have played this one? GS Str8 flush draw/GS str8 draw/FD and then I get crap on turn and river

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 7: You insta3bet an UTG open (who's playing 6/3 so far) with AKo IP. Because you aren't going to felt this, just call preflop. It tightens your preflop calling range a ton. He calls and you bet near pot on a K64r board. Are you thinking about his range? At these stakes, either bet like half pot (even lower if you want) or check. Your goal is to get 2 streets of value, obviously 3 if possible but that's highly unlikely.

19:36 So call preflop so I don't chase away small pps, broadway, etc. and value bet turn. He was pretty tight and called a 3bet so QQ+ and AK. The high cbet folds QQ and maybe AK? So half pot will like get QQ and AK to call?

I glanced @ the video and plan to go back over it, but here are some quick first impressions.

There are 3 main reasons to bet in the micros:
1) For value because YOU have the best hand and you think worst hands will call and pay you
2) For protection - YOU have the best hand, but it is vulnerable to become worst and you want to charge your opponent to catch up
3) As a bluff - YOU have the worst hand and want villain to fold a better one

Before you bet, you need to decide which of these choices applies. THEN, you need to state the range of hands you expect villain to respond with that action. For example, there was a spot in that video when you had 77 to under-cards. Betting there is for #2 - you probably have the best hand and you want to keep hands like AT or KJ from catching up or at least charge them a bad price for the privilege.

kMind, in his edit 7, brings up a PERFECT illustration of how you are losing money and value. On the flop, you BET AK near pot for value #1, however, YOU DO NOT THINK ABOUT HIS RANGE. To profitably bet for value, you need worse hands to call. The guy is 6/3, if he calls your pot sized bet on that board, odds are YOU ARE BEAT with AA, KK, or a set and best case chopping. The board is too dry to bet for protection. You should have checked there and allowed him a chance to bluff at it or possibly hit an ace if he had AQ. So, not only do you need to state why you are betting, you need to state what hands villain will do what you want them to do with - not just a random assortment of hands, but real hands that villain with your reads, notes, and stats will react that way. Betting that flop shows how you are not thoroughly thinking about ranges. In that hand, it looks like you just reacted to what you think you're supposed to do - AK gets a king, bet. No. There are times you will bet. There are times you won't. Next time you make a video, STATE OUT-LOUD why you are betting and what range of hands justify that action.

You do a good job trying to verbally anticipate your next move. Many players make the mistake of not thinking ahead and getting caught by surprise. So, keep doing that as it will serve you well. When you commentate, don't play by play what's happening. We can see who got a set and won the hand - just tell us what you're thinking in terms of your decision making process.

I could be wrong, but it seemed like you had too many stats. Here's what you need: VIP, PFR, Showdown %, Hands recorded, Steal %, Fold to Steal %. I don't even have the villain's name. If you want more, click on their stats and everything will show up. I wouldn't put any stat in my HUD about 3betting until you get to $50NL. Basically, the way I played 3bet pots from $25NL below was if I got 3bet and I had AA or KK, I re-raised all-in. With QQ or AK, I evaluated the villain and usually would call and play the flop but sometimes ship those, too. Don't get fancy. Everyone LOVES to talk about 3betting like it's some important concept, but the truth is it's overrated and there are so many other concepts you need to be getting down and focusing on.

I don't think you took enough notes or color coded enough. You color coding system is too detailed. I suggest you keep it simple. I use 3 colors. Default yellow which means I have notes. Green means I think they are a FISH and I want to play with them. They could be a maniac, calling station, weak-tight ... who cares? I just want to be sitting to their left. Anyone who is especially tight, good, or otherwise problematic and I would rather find someone else to play against, I color code them red. Just like 3betting, don't get fancy with your colors. Then, you can easily look through the lobby for fish or stay away from tables with too many red players that won't make it as profitable as another table.

I am ALWAYS looking for better tables. Your table lobby should always be in view sorted by highest VIP to lowest - don't worry about pot size or anything else. Just click that column to sort from highest to lowest - no right clicking required. You should actively be switching tables when either yours gets bad or a better one comes along. Wait until right before your big blind gets to you before you move. If you are at a bad table and no good ones are available, start your own. Table selection looked VERY poor in that video and you weren't doing nearly enough to fix it. Also seat selection can be important because your first priority is fish to your right.

Yes, use auto-top. Your tracking software will tell you exactly how much you've lost in a session and you can check it in session if need be.

Like I said, I'll go back over it because I didn't see all of it or even hear what I saw as well as I wanted because of noise, but sometime in the near future I suggest you make another video with 3 tables and the table lobby in the space where a 4th table would normally be.

Overall, not a bad job. You were trying to think about situations and were making some good decisions, but on the other hand, look at how much stuff we're able to delve into in a short 2 tabling video. Imagine how much more room you have to come along and the possibilities. Just keep working and hopefully you'll keep getting better. I just want to impress onto you that your results are NOT tied to not getting good hands or getting coolers as several of your posts seem to suggest. Your long term results are DIRECTLY tied to your play at the table. To that end, good decision making at the table is paramount.

1. Yep 54o. Who cares just go ahead and do it. You are making a profit regardless if you fold always postflop which you won't. It's extremely easy to play. F it.

2. Yeah 6 handed ESP. when they are folding 390934% of the time you need to open up more. Take it step by step if you are uncomfortable but QJs is def. good enough.

3. K9o he'll fold to your initial raise often enough that I think it'll be +EV.

4. J5o had is at 16:30ish on the left table. The guy ends up limping on the button but you already had clicked "fold"

5. I think you played the 65cc hand well and probably most EV until the turn. Call turn! Go over pot odds again.

6. Been explained already and you basically have it covered. Unfortunately, I don't think you are really understanding a concept I tried to teach you in your old blog. "Shoring weak ranges" into strong ones. Regardless of the flop, would you rather have AA or 22 as the preflop caller against someone who cbets a lot? Should definitely be AA. Here we are forming a strong range against his weaker cbetting range. You can see this concept being flown around all over FTR. ISF basically calls this the ISF Low Stake's Theorem and you should read about it in the strategy article at the top. Form strong ranges against lines that will be aggressive. Since he's so tight he'll be aggressive a lot postflop thinking he has the goods. There's another concept I don't really have time to talk about involving this hand but basically you are making the mistake if you aren't adjusting correctly to his ranges.



Here I'll post edits after watching some more:

edit 1: you have 77 at the 27 minute mark. You immediately c/f turn saying he probably hit a flush. He has most likely 1 combo of flush draws. DUCY? I b/c. I'll explain why after you explain why. (BLAH just saw sample size but let's play the WHAT IF game). Regardless he probably only have a few combos. More combos of PP/Ahi crap.

Last edit:
37:00 - reasoning for 3betting AQs vs. the nit?

37:33 - you automucked J8s on the BU

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 6: 65cc and the guy donks into you on a T32cc board. You can make a case for raising but calling maybe better because the gay shit he does end up getting it in with will be beating you. On the turn though you say you're getting 2:1 odds when you are really getting like 3.3:1 odds. You forgot to add in your call to the total pot..

On turn when villian bets $1.50 into $1.90 the pot is $3.40. This is 3.40:1.50 pot odds or 2.26:1 or 1.50/4.90 or about 30% right? Not 3.3:1

Originally Posted by kmind

...ISF Low Stake's Theorem and you should read about it in the strategy article at the top. ...

I'll try to find this.

Originally Posted by kmind

edit 1: you have 77 at the 27 minute mark. You immediately c/f turn saying he probably hit a flush. He has most likely 1 combo of flush draws. DUCY? I b/c. I'll explain why after you explain why. (BLAH just saw sample size but let's play the WHAT IF game). Regardless he probably only have a few combos. More combos of PP/Ahi crap.

I do not see why unless he has Ad and a 6

Originally Posted by kmind

37:00 - reasoning for 3betting AQs vs. the nit?

Hmmm, I'm out of position. If I was IP I would have called.

Originally Posted by kmind

37:33 - you automucked J8s on the BU

So you really want me to open up IP with hands such as J8s, 54o, K9o, J5o (NOTE: ADD "against nits")? This seems to fit the aggro part of TAGG but not the Tight part. So when I open these hands and miss flop then ??? or if I hit TPWK then ???

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

On turn when villian bets $1.50 into $1.90 the pot is $3.40. This is 3.40:1.50 pot odds or 2.26:1 or 1.50/4.90 or about 30% right? Not 3.3:1

Yeah I'm not sure what I was doing there. I was trying to type ~33% but definitely messed that up (ha) sorry.

I'll try to find this. ISF - Revision Of ISF Theorem at the bottom


I do not see why unless he has Ad and a 6 you aren't really thinking of his range then. He can really only have AdQd


Hmmm, I'm out of position. If I was IP I would have called. Ok so are you bluffing or what? I'd just fold and IP I wouldn't auto say call. I think calling and folding are fine. You'll face an aggressive cbetting strategy when the best you can flop in most cases is a draw or TPGK which is losing to all of his holdings if he has something too


So you really want me to open up IP with hands such as J8s, 54o, K9o, J5o (NOTE: ADD "against nits")? This seems to fit the aggro part of TAGG but not the Tight part. So when I open these hands and miss flop then ??? or if I hit TPWK then ??? I've never considered myself TAGG or LAGG or any of that. I strongly agree you should think like that. No one has a style. At least they shouldn't. Your play is based on each opponent. So yes, opening a TON of hands will be profitable in this spot. They are only playing like 8% of the time. If you miss the flop then c/f most of the time. Why? Because folding is neutral EV so it doesn't matter as you already exploited their glaring weakness.

Originally Posted by kmind

I'll try to find this. ISF - Revision Of ISF Theorem at the bottom


I do not see why unless he has Ad and a 6 you aren't really thinking of his range then. He can really only have AdQd

I don't get why. He can't have 66, 88, A6s, A8s, JJ+ with a diamond?

Originally Posted by kmind

Hmmm, I'm out of position. If I was IP I would have called. Ok so are you bluffing or what? I'd just fold and IP I wouldn't auto say call. I think calling and folding are fine. You'll face an aggressive cbetting strategy when the best you can flop in most cases is a draw or TPGK which is losing to all of his holdings if he has something too

So don't 3bet here against a nit because I'm only getting called by better? So then what's the point of calling OOP? In case he's doing this with worse? If I call and he cbets and I have TP then what? If I 3bet and he shoves I can fold. If I 3bet and he calls then I'm probably behind. I just don't get calling here.

Originally Posted by kmind

So you really want me to open up IP with hands such as J8s, 54o, K9o, J5o (NOTE: ADD "against nits")? This seems to fit the aggro part of TAGG but not the Tight part. So when I open these hands and miss flop then ??? or if I hit TPWK then ??? I've never considered myself TAGG or LAGG or any of that. I strongly agree you should think like that. No one has a style. At least they shouldn't. Your play is based on each opponent. So yes, opening a TON of hands will be profitable in this spot. They are only playing like 8% of the time. If you miss the flop then c/f most of the time. Why? Because folding is neutral EV so it doesn't matter as you already exploited their glaring weakness.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

So don't 3bet here against a nit because I'm only getting called by better? So then what's the point of calling OOP? In case he's doing this with worse? If I call and he cbets and I have TP then what? If I 3bet and he shoves I can fold. If I 3bet and he calls then I'm probably behind. I just don't get calling here.

This may be something of a ramble so apologies in advance.

The thing about our actions is understanding the impact they have in increasing or decreasing the range of hands that a villain continues with against us.

If we 3bet, we'll generally get folds from aces we dominate, most broadways and a bunch of pocket pairs we flip with. So we pick up his raise here and there, but vs any further action be it a call or 4bet for the most part we lose our 3bet and on A-hi/Q-hi boards more besides. We strengthen villain's range and make it easier for him to play his reduced range against us.

If we flat, even OOP, we keep villain's range the same as his opening range. So hands we're behind, hands we're flipping with, hands we dominate and even better hands he'll have to abandon on unfavourable boards.

Rather than just thinking about how your particular hand holds up vs his opening range, consider this: what board textures are unfavourable for his range? What boards would he check his range behind on?

If the board comes 972r, you check and villain checks behind, would you lead the turn if it's a 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? If called, would you bet/fold most rivers? If villains range for cbetting the flop is 77+, and his range for checking back ~66, Ax, Kx, Qx, etc, how do you play vs this? Do you take villains checks as an opportunity to get to showdown or an opportunity take the pot off them? You'd lead a set or pair on the turn for value and/or protection, right? And most nit villains will either know that or see monsters under the bed.

So, the benefit of keeping villain's range wide is the wider the range, the more flops he misses, and the more marginal decisions he is forced to make.

Finally, watch for the players who cbet the flop and check the turn a lot. IP you can float the flop and fold the turn to a bet or bet if checked to. OOP it's a little trickier but leading the river after the turn checks through still exploits the wider range of hands you kept the villain on by flatting pf.

So far March is treating me well. Up almost 8 BIs at FR for March so the BR is at about $540. Hopefully FR is not as swongy as 6max so when I do hit a downswing it won't hurt as bad.

Think I should be super over rolled for my next shot at 25NL? Like $850? Or should I take another shot at about $600 and hope I run good for once when moving up?

I'm table selecting differenty than before thanks to Jason. I was avoiding the tables with 4+ 20bb stacks. I now seek out those tables and make notes of what they shove with.

Thanks for the help so far. Also thanks to WeaselT for the email with some reading material.

Glad to hear things are going well! Sorry I haven't hit you up for the sweat yet, I've been working quite a bit lately. What day/time would be good for you? If we can't work anything out for this week, I may be able to set something up for this weekend after 9pm (your time).

Holy crap. I actually lost a BI last night

Dranger,
Maybe we can do it this weekend or next week sometime.

Congrats on getting things back on track. Definitely DO NOT take a shot any earlier than $750 or 30 buy-ins. If anything, because you have taken shots before @ this level and not had the results you wanted, I think you should consider adding more buy-ins like 35 or so, but definitely not less. The main point is BEFORE you move to $25NL FR, make sure you've won AT LEAST 30 buy-ins or $300 @ $10NL FR.

Based on my own experiences and from reading other players' posts, I've come to the conclusion that we are more apt to tilt when we move up stakes. The main reason for this is we are more results oriented because we want to succeed. It also doesn't help that we're not used to the blinds, player pool, and have a little of this "omg, I'm taking a shot" feeling in your gut. We WANT to know as soon as possible that we can "hang" with this bigger, newer stake. We need that acceptance. If we get off to a slow start or hit a downswing, we are much more disappointed than if we were playing our usual stakes.

I mention all this because it's even more of a reason to have more buy-ins and cushion so we take the pressure off and don't have such a sense of urgency that we have to win NOW. You need to have buy-ins to lose because you're making mistakes, not adjusting, and a little intimatidated. However, a good player will LEARN from all that and turn it around and not have to drop down IF (and only if), they have the bankroll to withstand that. By moving up too soon, you're putting more pressure on yourself to succeed sooner.

Definitely at least 30 buyins and Jason raises an interesting point about using prior experiences to justify having more than that. There are certainly lessons to be learnt from how things have worked out for you previously.

Won't be able to do it this weekend I gotta work shitty hours both days, anytime during this coming week is good for me though.

Down 4 BIs over the weekend.

It was bound to happen eventually so meh.

Slowplayers/CS have been kicking my ass lately and I have been value betting and getting my ass handed to me with KK<AA x 3, KK<JJ set, got out flushed A<K

I did hit a wheel for the first time on a 4 flush board and villian had second nut flush.

In the last week I won the 4 BIs back and turned around and lost them again in the last 2 days because everybody's running at the top of their range.

Pokerstars knows I'm about 10ffps short from "buying" a $50 bonus so they're messin' with me.

I've been playing lots of tables with 2-4 shortys.

VIllians who are owning me lately:
-Minbet every street with TP and I have tons of outs and I can't hit crap
-Villians who limp KK-AA and slowplay
-I have notes on shortys saying they will shove with A-rag, KTo, AQ, etc and I call/shove with 88+,AK and they have KK, AA
-I have AK and hit an A or K on the turn or river and villian's slowplaying a set.

Did finally get to go to a Predators game last week.

bump for update!

Thanks for your interest PlayToWin.

Still slowly grinding up. Had a bit of a downswing but I recovered all of it and then some.

In about 155fpps I should get my $50 bonus and in about 15 fpps I should get the $10 other bonus (can't remember what it's called)

BR is at about $560 and I'm up about 12.5 BIs for March.

I stopped playing every day like i was before. I try not to play when I'm too tired. If I didn't play when I was tired I would play maybe twice a week so I've got a benchmark for too tired.
-If I don't play will I fall asleep within 30 minutes while watching tv?

I'm playing on average about every other day. I've starting lifting weights again and the weather and time change are allowing me to play golf more.

I'm also trying not to look at HEM/cashier very often and just playing. Being over rolled helps alot with this.

Something else that's helping is to not watching the showdown progression when shoving pf against shortys as I was tilting when my TP hands were getting coolered. I go back and look once the hand is complete and note what villian was shoving/calling shove with.

I'm also getting used to breaking even for a session or only being up or down $1 or $2. At 6max it was usually at least a BI.

I could actually close this OP as I have fully switched to FR but I'll keep updating it until I move up to 25NL. Hopefully this won't take too long but if it does then so be it.

I'm also looking forward to playing in the BC HU tourney starting in the next few days. Good luck to me

FML

Last night was the worst night I have ever had playing. Every time (and I mean every time) I got AK, QQ+ against shortys I lost to some shit rag hand. I've been trying not to look at results or cashier until after the session was over. I've got auto reload on so I guess I lost track because I did win a few big pots. When all was done I was down almost 10 BIs which has totally screwed up the month of March. When I looked at the biggest losers they were all against shortys with 20bb or less and I lost alot of them. Maybe that's why I lost track of them because it was like "Oh well, only $2. No biggie"

FML and FML

Ya, in poker, momma definitely said there'd be days like this.

I am a little confused though. To lose 10 buy-ins strictly from 20bb short stacks, you'd have to lose 50 times. That's a heck of a lot of times to lose in one session, let alone as a favorite in most or all of them. There had to be something else going on. I think it's great you're not looking @ results in the short-term like after the money gets in, but a couple of things about that. I think in-game review and reflection is an important process, so while you may not immediately see what happens or learn from it, you probably don't want to completely ignore it or you could just keep doing the same, bad, wrong thing over and over. You need to be looking to see what they shoved with or called your shove with so you can define their range.

Making adjustments in poker is very important. Also, you HAVE to be cognizant of your balance to a degree - at least enough so you don't exceed your daily stop loss. I know it can be tough because if you watch it too close, you can tilt to results oriented thinking, BUT you can't go the other extreme and turn around and be down 10 buy-ins and not even know it. We have a stop loss because MOST of the time when we hit it, we aren't playing our best, no matter what justification we use to refute otherwise like "I was getting it in good". That stop loss is a tilt stopper.

Remember, the object of the game is to (1) play good poker, (2) Minimize tilt, (3) Practice good bankroll management, and (4) Play enough hands so that the benefits of (1), (2), and (3) come to fruition. You can never do # 4 in one day or session. It sounds like you didn't do #3 either ... and I SUSPECT #1 and/or #2 came into play as well at least once, if not several times.

All you can do is just learn from that session and vow to NEVER break #3 bankroll management again. To be able to safely lose 10 buy-ins in one day, you'd have to have 200 buy-ins or $2000 @ 10NL. Before you ever start playing, do one of 2 things: note your balance, multiply by .05, subtract that from your original balance. Check your balance every so often if you feel you've been losing - more frequently if you get stacked or lose several all-ins to shorties. When it hits that #, stop playing. Or, what I do, is take my bankroll, multiply it by .05 and check my results every so often in the HEM sessions tab. It will tell you profit or loss to the penny. I'm sure PT3 has something similar.

Anyway, good luck rebounding and getting the train back on track.

Yea, whatever. I'm sick of this shit. No matter what I do it's always they same shit. I try to play tight and agressive and the same shit always happens with the calling stations and coolers and suckouts.

Then you come here and get some help and all I get is crap like play good poker, use good BRM, don't tilt and a bunch of other BS that doesn't mean anything when I lose most of my BR on a regular basis. When I try to play more hands as you suggested, things just go from bad to worse. Thanks alot. You're a big help. Tell me something that I really can do to help. I know you're going to give me a bunch of crap about ranges, pot odds, and a bunch of other crap that I've heard over and over but it doesn't help.

Jason, do me a favor and let someone else give me some advice for a change.

Be nice to Jason, he's doing a good job in here.

My advice: If you are playing well against the shorties - don't worry about it. Find some of the big pots that you lost and post them in here, I don't see and HH in here yet. The best advice that I ever received was: be the player dictating the big pots. Don't let villain make the pots big unless you are very strong. Cut your losses in pots to one or two bets of value. Stop stacking off when you think villain is full of shit again and again. Most of the time - they're not bluffing.

For realz? Heh, well, with my advice, you get what you pay for Sure, get some more advice from other guys and gals. I suspect they'd tell you the same thing. And while we're on the subject, here's some more unsolited advice. I think you self-sabtoge yourself. Look at your history. You do well @ 6max, don't heed a good stop loss, and fail. You do well AGAIN, do some crazy deviation from your normal routine by moving your roll to full tilt AND move up stakes, and fail. Now you do well @ full ring, drop 10 buy-ins (I mean seriously?!? 10?!?), and fail. You appear to be your own worst enemy. I'm sure you'll recover from this, too. But, when you start doing well AGAIN, what will you do THEN to flip it and reverse it?

Originally Posted by Jason

For realz? Heh, well, with my advice, you get what you pay for Sure, get some more advice from other guys and gals. I suspect they'd tell you the same thing. And while we're on the subject, here's some more unsolited advice. I think you self-sabtoge yourself. Look at your history. You do well @ 6max, don't heed a good stop loss, and fail. You do well AGAIN, do some crazy deviation from your normal routine by moving your roll to full tilt AND move up stakes, and fail. Now you do well @ full ring, drop 10 buy-ins (I mean seriously?!? 10?!?), and fail. You appear to be your own worst enemy. I'm sure you'll recover from this, too. But, when you start doing well AGAIN, what will you do THEN to flip it and reverse it?

Maybe I'll just switch to HU next but I'm sure you're an expert at that too. Do me a favor and stay out of my OP. I'll get my help from somebody else who is not so "superior"

Hey ya Big Ape - Sorry for the downswing. Something that 'might' help you get over it for now; Go to the Tilt forum and read a little bit. You'll see you're not alone dealing with crap like this. It might sound stupid, but it's helped me before.

Also, I just read Elements of Poker and Angelo stresses the importance of being "a good quitter" and he says it's a skill to be learned and one that can be practiced. By that, he means that we should learn to quit playing a session as soon as we notice that we're not at our best. That could be because of tilt, being tired, being hungry, being stuck, not having fun, etc. It's important because most players are not good quitters and they suffer for it. You can practice by taking breaks at a certain predetermined time, regarless of running well or poorly or quitting a session after a predetermined length. The point is to take control and practice quitting. It will help you for years to come.

April Wat?

It's all BS. I didn't lose 10 BIs and Jason was in on it.

I intended to keep this going with Jason more yesterday but I couldn't get back online until late last night.

I did get some good advice though on tilt, which I still have the most trouble with.

Don't worry so much about ranges and volume and pot odds. Concentrate mainly on playing spades and hearts and you'll be ok. Clubs have huge reverse implied odds, possibly repsonsible for your downswing. Good luck dude.

Oh diamonds are a very narrow range to rep so don't bluff on diamond boards.

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

April Wat?

It's all BS. I didn't lose 10 BIs and Jason was in on it.

Too late to delete my post?

Oh well, at least now I know Jason didn't turn into a dick. GG.

your ass is going down

Heh, ya, I was relieved he was joking, too. At first, I was like "wtf, how is that possible", then I was like "whew"

Originally Posted by Jason

Heh, ya, I was relieved he was joking, too. At first, I was like "wtf, how is that possible", then I was like "whew"

Thanks Jason for playin along. I figured it would surprise many people when you started shooting back at me. I was hoping you would be more brutal but I guess you had to make it believable which you definitely did.

Originally Posted by kmind

your ass is going down

As they say in the south: "I ain't a skeered a you"

They also say "You got a purdy mouth" but we won't go there

Remember, I've never played HU so I probably run hot and kick your ass

Played in the FTR500 at FT. Gotta use what little money I have left there.

J9o > AKo and AKo on J999J board when I was down to 10bbs
AA < K8s about 10 hands later

Down 6 BIs over as many days for April.

I'm going to start posting some hands regularly.

Villian is 20-tabling reg 13/8/2 over a couple of hundred hands ,3bet of 1%
villian will shove 100bb into $0.40 pot on river

pf-pp, sc, didn't realy put him on overs
flop-fd, Qx, pp
turn- here looked like a fd as you would think he would bet Qx, KK, AA
I was trying to get to SD
river- I've seen him do this before but he was never called. This look like a missed fd and he's trying to take down the pot? or Qx?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($1.90)
Button ($5.25)
SB ($11.25)
BB ($1.70)
UTG ($9.95)
UTG+1 ($7.45)
MP1 ($10)
Hero (MP2) ($11.55)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, K
3 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, Button calls $0.40, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.95) 7, Q, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, Button calls $0.60
Turn: ($2.15) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks
River: ($2.15) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.80, Hero ??

villian is 30/3/3 over 30 or so

villian always minbets with any part of the board.

on the turn I have tons of outs as it looks like he's got Qx, 9T,maybe 2 pair or FD

Shove? Call? raise?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP1 ($3.10)
MP2 ($6)
MP3 ($10.45)
CO ($7.45)
Hero (Button) ($11.25)
SB ($10.90)
BB ($2)
UTG ($9.80)
UTG+1 ($4.10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 10
1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.20, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.20, SB calls $0.15, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.70) J, Q, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, 1 fold
Turn: ($1.10) 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.30, Hero ???

He's short stacked so you have to think about your bet sizing here. I'm probably opting for raising the flop and shoving the turn. Or calling flop and shoving the turn. You have plenty of outs and if you have any fold equity it should be +EV. But uh... wtf @ the range you gave him. He's raising 3% of hands so I'm pretty sure T9 is not in it. Looks like KQ, AQ, QJ to me.

Yea this looks like Jx, Qx, FD+OESD or FD+GSSD or something along those lines. He probably folds Jx to a shove, and obviously is calling with all Qx hands and his combo draws.

I like how you've played the hand so far, now shove the turn and bink one of your 14 outs or be good vs worse FD without improving. You should have plenty of fold equity given we think he's folding Jx and maybe a couple draws + our pot equity = +EVs

Interesting op Sasquatch.
Regarding variance garbage, I always end up throwing in the towel at cash games and return to tourneys/sngs where I can take a beat or two and still win the day, but that's my sissy side (or my winning obsessed side, not sure which).
Glad that april fools post was a sham - didn't catch it since I was reading it a few days late.
About the first hand, this guy isn't a regular short stacker then, since you say he'll shove 100bb on the river? In that case, why is he sitting with 17bbs pre??? Either way, you got a piece of the flop, I just shove right there. If he's got a strong Q or overpair, ah well, think it's still +EV since the pot is so much of his stack. Hadn't run it in stove, but that's what my gut says anyways.

Above hand. Ace hit river and I figured I was still good but vllian had top of Qx range. At least he was a shorty.

@Kijjo
I started off playing SnGs and got tired of bubbling out so I made a slow switch to cash. When I play in the FTR500 or FTR 300 I usually make money at cash games I'm playing at the same time. The HU tourney is a different story.

I was down 6 BIs for April for the first week or so but after I cleared my $50 bonus things are improving so the BR is at about $600 again.

I've been opening up more in position (with small SC and such) but I just end up spewing. My win rate usually stays fairly steady if I just play fit or fold.

Got eliminated out of the HU Tourney by Schya. Only took about 15 minutes. meh

Played 10NL afterwards for a couple of hours and was up 5 BIs. Played mostly 20-50bb and 50bb min games.

BR at $640

Over half way to the $50 milestone bonus

Had another good session tonight. Played mostly on the 100-250bb tables with a 200bb stack.

BR at ~$670

Will try to post some hands tomorrow I was unsure about.

<-----Go Preds

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Played mostly on the 100-250bb tables with a 200bb stack.

Speaking of tables, at 5NL the only tables I see listed are 250bb. I've checked my game filter and the only way I can get ANY games to show up is to check the "Other" box under Buy-In.

Yes PlayToWin, 2nl/5nl are unchanged by the new BI structure. It's still the same as before on those. The changes take place at 10nl+.

Originally Posted by dranger7070

Yes PlayToWin, 2nl/5nl are unchanged by the new BI structure. It's still the same as before on those. The changes take place at 10nl+.

I guess this is mostly true, but the max buyin used to be 200bb instead of 250bb. There are lots more big stacks playing now.

I have a theory players are dropping stakes. Not sure if it's true how far reaching it is but it's possible 10NL players under the old system are infiltrating those games.

My theory is that players are moving up in stakes for certain tables.

In most of the 20-50bb games the table vpip was > 30 and sometimes > 40
I have tons of notes on tons of players at 10NL and at most of these tables I have no notes or hands.

The 100-250bb tables seem to have more regs and a couple of fish. I found one of these tables last night with 6 regs and 3 players with >65 vpip with one of those playing 85 vpip.

My theory is the regs are playing 40-100bb and 100-250bb tables and the 20-50bb tables come from lower limit players.

Fish buy in for whatever they want to buy in for. A lot just put $50 or whatever on the site and figure they want to play $10 or $20 at a time and sit where they can buy in for that amount. That doesn't mean they will sit at a $10NL table but where the minimum is $10 to buy in but people have bigger stacks they can gamble and win. If it's still a 20-50BB table then so be it. All this does is make the shorties get a ton of the fish alone. The hope was to eliminate the shorties by having 35bb min buy ins but they don't have to change their game, they still have tables to play at, just with less 100bb regs. you've lost the short buy in fish that double and triple up and stay with near full stacks

MP1 is running 65/35/8 over 40 or so. Doubled up opening T6o from utg and hit trip 6's. Very aggro, even with air

UTG is typical CS at 40/2/1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP2 ($5.35)
MP3 ($5)
CO ($10)
Button ($11.25)
SB ($28.65)
Hero (BB) ($10.45)
UTG ($12.20)
UTG+1 ($9.30)
MP1 ($20.50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
UTG bets $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30, MP1 raises to $0.50, 5 folds, Hero raises to $2, UTG calls $1.70, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.50
Flop: ($6.35) 8, 9, J (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, UTG calls $2.50, MP1 calls $2
Turn: ($13.85) 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $1, Hero calls $1, UTG calls $1
River: ($16.85) 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, MP1 raises to $4.60, Hero ???

PF you could raise more to like 2.50, flop definitely raise more to like $4.50-5. After that just get the money in however you want.

BR at $680 (was up to $705 but I had a shitty day on Tuesday)

To move up to 25NL I need to:

Win 30 BIs at 10NL FR-I've won 24 BIs
Have at least 30 BI for 25NL

I should be getting a milestone bonus in about 400 fpps. So by the time I get to winning 30 BIs at 10NL I should get the bonus which will give me a couple more BIs as a cushion at 25 NL.

BTW, I turn 49 today so the plan is...

Happy birfday mate.. Oh and have you tried the 25NL 20-45bb 6 max tables. Its just like being back at 10nl except for the bigger blinds. Idiots will stack off with bottom pair.

happy birthday mang! stick to your plan gogo at 30 BI's.

Happy b-day dude, gl with the grind!

Thanks guys


[x]

[ ] (Too old for this )

[x] (this is normal as I'm 49!!)

[ ] (I've learned to limit so it won't happen)

[ ] Predators win

Total Hands Played = 0 (This was ++++EV)

Good Birthday overall

Excellent night. Up almost 7 BIs

BR at $743

Ship shop. Nice work dude. Keep dat grind on yo mind. And you're the third person to run hot since i posted in their blog lol. I'm going to start charging commision imo.

10NL at PS is really going down in quality. Most of the games with a vpip of >30 are all 20-50bb tables (with mostly 20bb stacks) with maybe one 100-250bb table. The 40-100bb games are essentially gone. I feel like I'm playing 5NL again.

I moved up last night to 25NL to play a couple of tables. I played a 20-50bb table and a 40-100bb table. The 20-50 table was like a 10NL table and was very loose with vpip of abut 35. The 40-100 table was very tight. Only played 100 hands or so before I quit.

I have about $710 in the BR as I forgot where the fold button was for the last couple of nights and the short stackers are busting my AA and KK hands with crap like K8o and one villian shoved pf with 27s.

I'm ready to move up to 25NL because I'm tired of playing "virtual 5NL" at 10NL. Maybe the 20-50bb tables at 25NL will feel more like 10NL.

I'm going to wait until I clear the milestone bonus. I only have about 140 fpp before I get $50 bonus. I would probably get it faster playing 20-50bb tables at 25NL. Hmmm

Yes, I've come to the conclusion that the 20bb to 50bb game has replaced the 20bb to 100bb game. The 40bb to 100bb game has replaced the 50bb to 100bb game (which imo sucked then and sucks now). The deep tables are a nice novelty if you are lucky enough to get a fish to sit down and then lucky enough to get him to stack off deep and light. But, you can leak a lot of money waiting for those implied odds to kick in not to mention the coolers or tough regs you're going to battle more frequently before the delicious fish finally comes along. It's pretty disappointing, but not sure what else we can do except trudge on. Don't be tempted to move up, though, until you have the full bankroll. 1/2 stack $25NL is still $25NL, not $10NL. But, there will be more fish by and large on the 1/2 stack tables.

Originally Posted by Jason

Don't be tempted to move up, though, until you have the full bankroll. 1/2 stack $25NL is still $25NL, not $10NL

not sure if i entirely agree with this. Bankroll management in no limit is typically described in terms of buyins (not blind size). Unless 50bb is higher variance than 100bb then you're rolled for 50nl -20-50bb with bankroll $750 (assuming a 30buyin rule)