Operation Winning is a Habit

I think it is a very interesting idea. Heads up you can get a much better feel for ranges and the importance of aggression. I still think you need a basic understanding of poker first but I think you could improve more quickly in Headsup. The disadvantage is that if you are tiltprone you could busto yourself much more easily playing HU just because it can be so tilting when you get beat 1 on 1 vs someone who plays bad. Rake is beatable like you say given that these guys play awful from what little I've experimented with HU at the 5s.

Hey Robb, wood stoves work well as a retrofit plus they look cool and you can them right in the middle of the room if you want. They run from around $500 to over 3gs and installaton can vary about the same amount depending on complexity.

Ever think about a generator? Could solve alot of issues and cost about the same.

HU is probably ok for starting out, thing is that most people will want to switch to cash at some point = they'll have to start out a second time...

fireplace sounds a good idea, and hook up a wetback to it. etc. Is the power thing really that awful? generators are one idea, battery packs another. Hell, build some shit that works (obviously don't employ me for that ) and go off-grid!

Originally Posted by daven

HU is probably ok for starting out, thing is that most people will want to switch to cash at some point = they'll have to start out a second time...

fireplace sounds a good idea, and hook up a wetback to it. etc. Is the power thing really that awful? generators are one idea, battery packs another. Hell, build some shit that works (obviously don't employ me for that ) and go off-grid!

The power thing is annoying - every time it goes out/on it surges like hell and kills electronics. Lost a wireless router last time. Last my macbook pro power cord/adapter this time. So I spend maybe $250 a year on various appliances and electronics. They die anyway, I know, but even they were wonky before they tend to die right after these outages occur.

We have this part of the living room that juts out a bit from the main rectangle of the house, where a fireplace might fit nicely and look great. So it was a thought. Also, I have thought of a generator along with a whole house surge protector on the line. My understanding is that they're about 2k installed, a bit less if you iso some of the key electrical components and just back them up: HVAC, fridge, key lighting circuits. You can get them in more efficient varieties if you go to natural or LP gas rather than diesel or (worse) gasoline.

To answer the question, though, the fireplace is more cosmetic - I just like them. The generator is more of a solution. Off grid is interesting. If our house faced the opposite direction and all solar panels could go in BACK, I might even be able to sell it to the wife =) .

Oh, and to address a question I will surely get - yes, I do have the computer hooked up through a battery backup / surge protector. And we still have vicious enough surging to fry components on a fairly regular basis.

Originally Posted by dneureiter

I think it is a very interesting idea. Heads up you can get a much better feel for ranges and the importance of aggression. I still think you need a basic understanding of poker first but I think you could improve more quickly in Headsup. The disadvantage is that if you are tiltprone you could busto yourself much more easily playing HU just because it can be so tilting when you get beat 1 on 1 vs someone who plays bad. Rake is beatable like you say given that these guys play awful from what little I've experimented with HU at the 5s.

HU SnG's sort of limit the tilt issues, if you can stop after 3-4 straight losses, which I don't find very difficult!

I think Daven's point above is probably the most interesting, but the question is (for most noobies, I'm guessing): "How can I get poker profitable fast?"

Here are some POSITVES:

With HU, you don't need a HUD, though it's sometimes helpful, especially for tracking results and replaying sessions.

With HU, you don't need a large roll like you do with ring, MTT's or other kinds of SnG's.

With HU, you can learn to read individuals, work on your ranges, and learn the value of straight-up aggression.

With HU, you have a form of poker that allows you to have a decent hourly earn while SINGLE-tabling and focusing on learning the game and playing exploitively against some basic poker styles.

With HU, you learn to play short-handed which can be a key skill when you start tables. (This is why I took it up initially.) If even 10% of your hands are extra-short-handed, say 3-way and less, you have to be proficient with the reads and skills of HU play to profit. Unfortunately, these cash HU skills are a bit different than their SnG counterparts - more high variance and requiring a bigger br.

With HU SnG's at the nano's, the average turbo match is about 6-7 minutes, so you can play about 9 - 10 an hour single-tabling.

Some NEGATIVES:

With HU, you don't really learn any patience, since you're in every hand.

With HU, all the post-flop skills are wrong for ring games.

With HU, you learn to play REALLY loose, a "skill" that might actually hurt you when you try to transition (back) to ring.

_________________

There are probably more negatives, but before I posted something in the BC I thought I'd "think out loud" about it here.

I don't want to lead anyone astray. I do think some folks could possibly profit quickly, build a roll for 5nl/10nl cash play, purchase a HUD and generally launch a poker hobby or career with very little startup costs.

You make some interesting points about starting with HU. The most important benefit is the aggression thing IMO - learning an aggressive game from the start seems good. I think, though, that not learning patience is a major drawback. I think the drawback of not learning patience outweighs all other potential benefits unless the player develops some mega crazy post flop skills.

Originally Posted by Robb

Glad to see Courtiebee in the thread - how's the hottest, thong-wearing chick on FTR doing these days?

You make me blush, hehe I'm doing great these days, thanks! Just working for FTR and playing donkaments. Can't ask for much more than that

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Just working for FTR and playing donkaments.

too modest to mention $20k tourney scores

Originally Posted by daven

too modest to mention $20k tourney scores

I saw this on the blog, Courtie - nh. I admire the MTT'ers in the world, knowing I could never be one. It's about that poker patience thing.

haha, thanks guys You definitely have to be patient (or crazy) to play MTTs, but you don't necessarily have to be that good at poker. I was trying to learn cash games but MTTs seemed like an easier way to make money, so I took the easy road :P

Originally Posted by courtiebee

haha, thanks guys You definitely have to be patient (or crazy) to play MTTs, but you don't necessarily have to be that good at poker. I was trying to learn cash games but MTTs seemed like an easier way to make money, so I took the easy road :P

Very humble. Too humble, likely, but I don't know jack about MTT's so I'll just have to take your word for it.

Tried 2-tabling my HU2's last night, and played a bit on Stars. Did OK this time with the 2-tabling. I still like Tilt better. I think their games move faster, but Stars seems to have the worse players. I also don't really understand the bonuses on Stars. It seems like, in about 40 years, I will have earned a $10 bonus. I've heard folks say their rewards program is great at 100nl and above, but I just don't quite get why microstakes players would play over there - except for the soft games.

Some strategy thoughts.

1. The vast majority of HU1 and HU2 players are too passive, pre and post.

2. The biggest leak in HU SnG's is limping just because you can't fold. Most players show this tendency within the first half dozen hands, and I know I should win by just staying patient and waiting for the ride to value town. If you can't fold 73s pre...

3. The second biggest leak actually seems to go hand-in-hand with serial limping. About 80% of serial limpers are stations post. Yeah!

4. Stations come in two main varieties, the one-extra-street stations, and the "can't fold until the river stations, and sometimes not even then." Unfortunately for my bankroll, the former predominate, but they're still a blessing to the poker economy.

5. The reasons seeing my opponent limping makes me happy are: I know they won't be putting pressure on me to make hard decisions, they will help me play correctly when they are the PFR, and they will be extending the game so I can have lots of hands to form a read.

6. I pretty much detest limping, so I've been experimenting with it a bit. I still think it's horrible as a main tactic, but here's a way to use it. Say I've got this serial limper I'm battering with aggression. I toss in a limp every now and again, check a street, then let him have the pot. Just to act neighborly. "Sure, we're just out on Sunday drive, looking at the scenery, seeing a few flops." And I'm looking for a rock to bash your head in with, so I can take your stack.

7. By far the players that give me the most trouble are the serial limpers who get agro post. They'll have stats like 80% or 90% VPIP, PFR ~ 20% (often the min-raise), flat calls 80% or more. Then postflop they're AF ~ 3.0 or 3.5. (Higher AF's in HU are a sign of the ability to find the fold button every now and then.) Without the postflop aggression, the obvious way to play them is wait for a hand and bet aggressively, but their ability to check-raise flops and barrel 2nd pair makes them difficult to beat if you go card dead at the wrong moment.

8. If you limp, you need to keep that range polarized and, generally, small. Players that limp KK are a pain in the ass, especially if they get a card rush. Fortunately, with decent reads you get 2 or 3 of these hands before you're dead, because another drawback of limping is that you don't build the pot soon enough with premium hands.

9. Lovin' the maniacs. I used to get impatient, make the "maniac" read, then fire on the first hopeful hand I came across. Now, I'm thinking through the "bluffs" and categorizing them as I see them, trying to guess what type of hand he must be shoveling with. Postflop is a bit easier to guess than the pre, though given enough time either one can work. If you wait a bit, and think a bit, you can almost always get the stacks in as a big favorite even if you're card dead.

10. Bluffing is necessary, but I'm learning to pick spots.

11. If you pick a spot, and the villain donks (or c/r's) the flop, pick a different spot.

12. Once you've picked your spot in theory, wait a few hands for it to materialize. Bluffing only once every 8 to 10 hands is plenty at the nano's. Cbets are bluffs, though benign, but as the blinds grow they can be spewy if you don't have a good reason to barrel.

13. ISF's cash HU guides is gold, even for SnG's.

14. Learn to fold 22 pre. OK, so it's almost playable and seems like a real hand, but HU you can't set hunt profitably, and the ways you can lose with it are just soul crushing. I get short, go all-in with the deuces, the board double pairs above me, and I'm left losing to a 75 who flopped f**k all, which is just how playing 22 works.

@12. Aren't most cbets semi bluffs since poeple float light. Nothing better than Cbeting 278tt flop with A3o, because you know you villains calling range (if passive) is something like T9 JK+ and tons of flush draws.

Originally Posted by Robb

Played HORRIBLE poker after failing the "i suck at chess and shouldn't play poker" test. So I played poker. WTF? Ah, well, I lucked out an won one lost one in HU SnG's, got out after some decent play won me a back from the grave victory, so I'm down the cost of 2 BI's, like 30 cents or something. Cheap lesson, I suppose.

If you're brain ain't active when it's something free like chess, why gamble?

This is so key, the chess test really helps you identify if you're in a good mood to play. Remember though for guys wanting to get in a lot of volume if you're even slightly +EV in the game and have nothing else to do you may as well play even if you were sucking at chess a bit. If you were lol bad at chess though it's defo an indication you shouldn't play. I'm going to use the chess test now, my head feels a bit funny but unsure whether it's in a way that'll make me suck at poker.

Originally Posted by Robb

14. Learn to fold 22 pre. OK, so it's almost playable and seems like a real hand, but HU you can't set hunt profitably, and the ways you can lose with it are just soul crushing. I get short, go all-in with the deuces, the board double pairs above me, and I'm left losing to a 75 who flopped f**k all, which is just how playing 22 works.

hahaha so true but 22 is really a great hand once you (or your opponent) get short. I've done a lot of poker stoving the last few months and it's amazing how much equity 22 has versus certain ranges compared to a hand like AJ.

Isn't there a great prob bet about ak 22 98s. Whoever picks second always has the higher ev. Slightly off topic but your 22 comment made me think of it.

Originally Posted by courtiebee

hahaha so true but 22 is really a great hand once you (or your opponent) get short. I've done a lot of poker stoving the last few months and it's amazing how much equity 22 has versus certain ranges compared to a hand like AJ.

I get that we HAVE to play it. But 22 is sort of like how I feel about changing diapers. You gotta do it, but you don't gotta like it.

Losing with 22 tilts me. It helps me if I think of it as part of my bluffing range, not my equity range.

Originally Posted by !Luck

@12. Aren't most cbets semi bluffs since poeple float light. Nothing better than Cbeting 278tt flop with A3o, because you know you villains calling range (if passive) is something like T9 JK+ and tons of flush draws.

My experience is that most villains will cc with Ax, Kx, any 2 > 8, and almost any 2 suited. Since they'll call 1-2 streets with hands as week as BDFD + BDSD, you have trouble on a 278 flop telling the difference between 93s and 77.

Also, I should have made my #12 more clear - I was specifically thinking about these postflop stations (or those who trend too cally wally) when I wrote it. When a station donks into you the first time, fold. When a station c/r or just raises the flop the first time, fold. That's more what I meant. Most of these villains are way too passive post, and flat way too wide pre. Which makes putting them on a range a bit exciting, unless you have something you're willing to bet 3 streets of value on.

I think you're point is well taken when we're talking about people who can find the fold button.

I'm on family vacation, so I played 4 HU2's this morning before the kids woke up, won 3 of them. EZ game.

I spent Thursday night in the ER with my 6-year-old little girl (midnight to 4 AM). She had abdominal pain. Turns out, it was an umbilical hernia, which is just what it sounds like. A bit of the gut slips out the little slit where the umbilical cord used to be, and it's painful. Fortunately, the doc just pushed his finger into her belly button for like 5 seconds, fixed the problem, and her face lit up. Pain gone completely. She was a different kid yesterday, swimming, playing, running around.

Oh, yeah, it was the first night of our family vacation, so we had dodged ice storms up to Chattanooga and were staying in a train car (turned into a hotel room) at the Chattanooga Choo Choo. So I head to the front desk, and get directions to the Children's Hospital ER.

I was dead. I got an hour of sleep before the ER trip, and about 4 hours after it, with a trip from the hotel to my wife's extended family in the Johnson City, TN area. Even though five hours of sleep seems OK, the stress isn't, and the four hour drive seemed like 40. Made it safe, got some real sleep last night.

Ranges.

I think HP "Tagg std" PFR ranges is something like, any 2 that are 8 or better, Ax, Kx, pp's and some sc's/1-gappers like 65s+, 86s+.

Bad villains over-value suited-ness especially with hands like 42s which are pretty hopeless without a 44x or 432 or 543 kinda flop.

I'm up now for my return to poker. I had dropped $35 or $38 (wasn't really keeping records at the time), and now I've won it all back (plus about $5) playing HU2's.

I think I will grind hard on HU2's and consider a move up to the HU5's and HU6's after about $50 more winnings.

Goals.

1. No more ER trips this vacation.
2. Work on 2-tabling - keeping strategic lines straight is vital, and knowing when to update my approach on each table.
3. Work through some adjustments and optimal post flop action when I do adjust.

For #3, so much of heads up play is reading the opponents' state of mind by his bet sizing, timing tells and his tank-folds. But I switched to a limp only preflop strat (something I do in less than 1 of 100 HU SnG's I play) and didn't really have any clue post flop. If you're going to use an adjustment even every 100 SnG's, you should work through it away from the tables, which is what the blog is for, amiright?

Merry Christmas to all. I hope to post again before the 25th, but maybe not. Depends on the fortunes of the family vacation. Home on Christmas Eve, where I'll be installing a 40" HD flat panel TV and Wii for Christmas morning. The kids are going to freak out and play Lego Star Wars until like August before going to bed again.

I don't have HEM so I will keep some records here while I'm away from the house. And I invented a new abbreviation: HUT ~ "Heads Up Tourney."

HU2 - 12/18/10
7 AM, 4 games, 3 wins
11:30 AM, 2 games, 2 wins
1:30 PM, 2 games, 1 win
3:30 PM, 7 games, 4 wins
10 PM, 3 games, 3 wins

TOTAL: $38.70 BI, Won $52, Overall + $11.30

Edit: adding to log as day goes on...

Think I'm headed to bed now. Gotta keep thinkin' about my postflop play, and Max's blog post (see next page in this thread), and figure out how to summarize my thoughts about game theory, post flop, etc.

Merry Christmas to all...

3 bet ranges for HU-nano.

Depending upon how stationy villains are preflop, and how often he open raises, 3b's can be pretty profitable. I don't have PokerStove on my macbook laptop, but here's my guess at a decent range without stove's help.

For a villain who has PFR of 40+, I have a polarized 3b range with about 30% quality hands (A9+, 22 - 99, some sc's and Ax where x<6). I don't like 3b'ing with TT+ unless the villain's really tight with PFR's, since I want to see several streets with an overpair. 77-99 are really good hands to jam with preflop, but can be scary post. Low pp's hold up pretty well vs. any but the nittiest jamming range, and the rest you can profitably fold except any big ace you think has a chance to be good.

At the nano's, hardly anyone jams or calls them correctly, so with a bit of patience you can jam pretty well with no fear. I hate calling jams until I have a read, but I don't mind a speculative jam early on from Hero. That's where 22 - 66 can be helpful.

umbilical hernia DOES sound painful. I'm glad it was fixed right up!

Good luck with your goals, Merry Christmas <3

Originally Posted by courtiebee

umbilical hernia DOES sound painful. I'm glad it was fixed right up!

Good luck with your goals, Merry Christmas <3

thx courtie, merry xmas to u 2!!

Originally Posted by Robb

Oh, yeah, it was the first night of our family vacation, so we had dodged ice storms up to Chattanooga and were staying in a train car (turned into a hotel room) at the Chattanooga Choo Choo.

Damn, we coulda had a beer together. Chattavegas is my hometown!

I'm not sure what they have on tap at Chidren's Hospital, but yeah, I could have used some!!

Following your blog has inspired me to dip my toes in some HU. PLayed 4 4man HUSNGs this morning. Won 2 but woulda been 3 if I had listened to my own reads and not shoved into a massive station that wasn't going anywhere. There's alot to learn from HU I think so I'm gonna try to study up some and continue playing some more often.

Glad to here your daughter is ok. I know from experience that nothing can bring a grown man to tears like his babygirl being in pain.

Enjoy the rest of your vacation and have a great Christmas. Oh, and I'm jealous of the Wii and tv thing.

Originally Posted by supahaole

Oh, and I'm jealous of the Wii and tv thing.

You made me lol.

Good luck on the heads up work. As a suggestion, take at least 5 minutes between transitions from cash to HU or back. I don't think it's a problem to play both, and I think the HU SnG's teach you a lot. But it's a very different game, and you need some moments to get your head back to ring game cash efforts.

Some suggestions about the HU nano's:
1. Don't CALL an all-in without the nuts.
2. Two pair is the nuts.
3. You don't need the nuts to value bet the shizzle out of it.

You're an awesome dad, Robb. God I miss those Christmases. Keep up the good work on and off the felt. Love reading about HU SnG as I'm always very close to transitioning to them.

OK, I was reading Danny's (ISF's) and Max's suited aces blog. (I won't link to it, but it ain't hard to find.) They both play HU for mega stakes, and Max had an interesting post about a well known HU cash player who got crushed during a foray into $5k HU SnG's. Max suggested that successful HU cash players generally get pwn'd by the HU SnG regs from much lower down the poker food chain, and offered sharkoscope as a way to find evidence of this. So why is that? Max did not give many details which is his right - he does earn a living from his poker knowledge, and spent time and effort and money getting it, so why give it away? But we may be able to read between the lines. Here's what he did say:

Originally Posted by Max at suited-aces.com

Even having a cash background I have a hard time figuring it out, but I do have some theories:

1. The theoretically optimal strategy of deep cash game play and shallow hu sng is totally different. To make it worse for cash players, optimal hu sng play looks retarded to them. Because of this, they’re unwilling to be open minded about correct strategy and struggle. Even when playing the very best players, they assume that what the best players are doing can not be right.
2. Cash players don’t understand game theory very well. HU sngs (in my opinion) are a very theoretical game. In cash, you can overcome a lot of theory flaws by raw poker. Now I’m not saying all cash players are bad at this I’m just guessing hu sng players are better. However, I’ll admit that it’s possible point 1 is the reason it seems that way.
3. They think all they need to do is learn the 20bb and under preflop math and they’ll win. Although preflop math against a competent player is important, I think cash players assume that it’s all they need to figure out. In reality, they need to figure out 60bb-30bb stack play and postflop play much much more.

Anyone else have any theories?

I certainly don't know anything about nosebleed stakes, but I've been thinking about this. HU poker is a big card game with small ball lines. Because so many combos are live preflop, we end up playing small ball with big hands. It's almost impossible to get 3 streets of value out of TPTK or better, though we try. In position, we try some "check behind" lines even with our premium hands. Everything gets played slower because of the sheer magnitude of the junk in every range.

Edit: I wrote the stuff below, then re-wrote the above paragraph to make the whole post more coherent.

What's the key difference between HU poker and 6m (or FR)? HU poker is a post flop game, while 6m is a preflop game: 3betting light, stealing ranges, restealing, 4betting. You need a premium hand, especially in FR but also in 6m. HU poker is about two guys with trash bluffing each other, and reading the game post flop.

Almost any preflop strategy can work at the nano's, as long as you aren't shoveling every hand in the dark. You can limp, limp/3b, flat a ton of hands, PFR > 90%, whatever you like. As long as you read the postflop game better, you can win with it.

Now, it's not exactly true that 6m is a preflop game. More correctly, it's a game where preflop ranges matter. In HU, preflop ranges are often "NE2 will do!" You will bump into players who limp/call with every hand. In HU, it's the flop ranges that matter. Sure, you use whatever you can to start narrowing things down, but what their bets mean is vital: big, small, fast, slow, flop texture. The board and the betting are the key indicators HU, not the preflop ranges.

Here's the interesting thing: at HU SnG's, you begin to infer how a player will deal with flush draws by watching how they react to paired boards, and you'll have an idea how they will react to c/r's by noting how often, and on what kinds of boards/action they c/r you. Every solid read can and should spider web out into several more reads, and after two or three solid reads we can have a entirely accurate sense of how villain will react to most post flop scenarios. We don't have to c/r the turn to know how those dominoes will fall. We guess the patterns long before we leverage them.

So what the heck does all this have to do with high stakes HU cash pros sucking at HU SnG's?

I'm not sure, but this is part of it, I think. Since post flop is the crucial playing field, and since everyone's playing trash hands aggressively, big cards have even more value and small cards have even less.

Consider a hand like 65s. You can play this in a FR cash game for two reasons. You have deception working for you, and the stacks are usually deep enough that you can play several streets, even if one street gets raised. At HU, 65s is a playable hand, but it has less deception and shallow stacks that kill off its multi-street maneuvering. (Some would suggest the shallowness kills off implied odds, but since any hand can flop big and win the tourney, and since 65s can flop pretty big, it's actually wrong to say there's not enough implied odds. Winning the tourney's some pretty nice implications.)

In HU SnG's, on the other hand, we can play more passively oop, for a couple of reasons. First, the shallowness forces the ip PFR to bet smaller, more 1/2 psb rather than full psb's. Second, it's more difficult to bet every street, and impossible to bet/raise every street without getting it all in. Third, overcards are vital, even cards that just bigger than SOME of the board.

Example, QT on a K96 board is great. Villain could easily have raised preflop and cbet the flop with A9, A6, Ax + air, Kx + air, 9x and 6x. Literally dozens of combo of junk hands that now have value. You'll know soon enough if villain has Kx, since he'll play it like the nuts. Often (at the nanos), you can tell by his cbet sizing whether he's got TPGK. In our example, Villain has the 4 J's, 3 Q's and 3 T's as outs, or a 20% chance of improving on each street. Any BDFD outs just make the situation better if the board gets suited, since Hero expects to win a kicker battle if both players show down a flush (even with the T, though more so with the Q).

Also, there's a feature of HU that is extremely interesting that we don't see much at other games: counterfeiting. Suppose villain has 76s and cbets in our example. Any of the 3 K's or 3 9's really suck for him since now the board has 3 outs to double pair on the river, which gives Hero a few additional outs.

"Really, Robb?" you're asking. You're worried about double-paired-boards-on-the-river outs? You bet I am. Since at FR and even 6m, we almost never play 2nd and 3rd pair hands (and correctly so, since the average winning hand is better), we cash players undervalue big cards in HU.

Max said to one of the replies to his post that "station" play is reasonably correct post flop. This is the part that feels "retarded," I'm guessing, to most HU cash players. With deep stacks, we can run mulit-street bluffs which become effective because of multi-street value betting on TPTK hands that punish station play. In HU SnG's, almost all your post flop lines are "small ball." Very rarely do you want to cbet and then bet the turn. You miss the flop completely 2/3's of the time, and have something like J8o. You make a couple of small bets, but you're willing to check behind a lot. And because this happens so much, when you merge ranges, you have a predominantly small ball game, with big card hands and small ball lines sort of "forced" on you.

Wondering if that makes sense to y'all...

Originally Posted by kmind

You're an awesome dad, Robb. God I miss those Christmases. Keep up the good work on and off the felt. Love reading about HU SnG as I'm always very close to transitioning to them.

Thanks, Kmind, I appreciate it. The kids will only believe in Santa for another year or two max, so we've made it a real priority to be at home for Christmas Eve, and do the whole Santa thing up right. We put out a bunch of presents and fill stockings while the kids are asleep, put out milk and cookies for Santa, food for the reindeer, and so on.

The twins are 6 and thanks to school friends and older cousins, probably won't believe in Santa by next year or - if we're lucky - the year after. And, of course, the 4-year-old is doomed once the twins find out Santa's not real. That kind of news spreads all to quickly.

Just tryin' to have fun with the Santa thing while it's possible...

@HU SnG's, come on over to the dark side, and gl w/ life and pokerz and happy holidays.

Chess is poker lite.

You play online. People make training videos. There are forums and software. The big difference is that it's only pride on the line - no money. Oh, yeah, and there's cheating! These kids have chess engines running to help "advise" them when playing live online, and the sites have "detection" software snooping trying to prevent that.

It's tons more corrupt than poker because there's not any money involved, and no monetary incentive for sites to run "clean" games.

So why do I worry about my online rating? Why not just play for fun, and figure out if my brain is fuzzy or working reasonably well for pokerz?

LOL. My dad is a poker donator, but he finally bought HEM. I got it working for him tonight, and I'm trying to teach him some stuff about the HUD stats.

He's been playing the 6man $26 turbo SnG's on Full Tilt.

I'm hoping he's going to join FlopTurnRiver, start using some reasonable BR management, and start winning. He's smart enough, but I can't convince him that poker is about more than just playing your cards how you feel like.

I'm hoping that watching his graphs will jolt him awake, and get those competitive juices flowing. He runs a $3 million per year business that he started himself - meaning he was his only employee - 25 years ago.

I'm just hoping he turns himself into a winning player. If you see him around FTR, please treat him well. Maybe we can get him posting, analyzing and winning. That would be a great Christmas present for me. My mom blames me for his poker losses.

What's his SN on Stars? JK

Originally Posted by PlayToWin

What's his SN on Stars? JK

Yeah, no shizzle. He just thinks of poker like we think of movie tickets or dinner out. It's entertainment, so losing $50 every couple of months isn't any big deal.

BTW, I don't think he plays on Stars. He's helping the Full Tilt economy right now.

I really like how analytical you are towards everything in here Robb. I recently had a little foray into the micro HUSNGs during one attempt to build a roll and while my experience with HU cash is quite limited the differences that you pointed out are pretty significant. I also fully agree with what Max posted on SA about stationing and how a lot of HU cash players can't grasp this.

If you think about it in terms of combos there are just so many ways to miss a flop so even a middling pair with an okay kicker can be in the top 10-20% of your range in a given hand. Furthermore, because stacks are so shallow and get shallower as the game goes along ranges get weaker and weaker and the incentive to take down every pot rises. Due to this you can feel pretty safe in making calls that would be ridiculously thin or even massively -EV in a HU cash game.

The micro HUSnGs are pretty entertaining and you'll see some absurdly unorthodox plays but from what I gathered they are easily beatable if you almost never bluff as everyone's hands become very face up on the later streets.

Originally Posted by Robb

Yeah, no shizzle. He just thinks of poker like we think of movie tickets or dinner out. It's entertainment, so losing $50 every couple of months isn't any big deal.

BTW, I don't think he plays on Stars. He's helping the Full Tilt economy right now.

I am not on Poker Stars. Just learning what tilt really is but i want to stop helping the online wealth redistribution pros.

Originally Posted by Donachello

I really like how analytical you are towards everything in here Robb.

It's turned into a decent win rate, thankfully. I'm thinking I should be able to start withdrawing early next year, maybe $50 in Jan, $75 in Feb, and so on.

Originally Posted by Donachello

If you think about it in terms of combos there are just so many ways to miss a flop so even a middling pair with an okay kicker can be in the top 10-20% of your range in a given hand. Furthermore, because stacks are so shallow and get shallower as the game goes along ranges get weaker and weaker and the incentive to take down every pot rises. Due to this you can feel pretty safe in making calls that would be ridiculously thin or even massively -EV in a HU cash game.

I think the game theory that Max is talking about is the "5 outs" problem on the flop, where you are shallow and have 2nd or 3rd pair, no kicker. If you're beat, it's very likely by a bigger pair or better kicker, which gives you 5 outs. How to play these hands (along with any reads we can get) would seem to be the key when the games get hard. I will be thinking about that...

Originally Posted by Donachello

The micro HUSnGs are pretty entertaining and you'll see some absurdly unorthodox plays but from what I gathered they are easily beatable if you almost never bluff as everyone's hands become very face up on the later streets.

Yeah, I like it at the 2hut's. I am winning nicely and won't move up to the 5hut's until I have some game. I think there are about 3 basic strategies I might use - I only use one about 80% of the time when I'm playing donks. Keep it simple, right? When I get some clarity on the basic adjustments, then I'll move up to 2-tabling at the 5hut's.

Oh, yeah, and Dad is posting itt. Cool - he's just call larry, which has several meanings, including a tag from several TV commercials for his business here in Greenville, SC.

Hi Larry, welcome to FTR!

Originally Posted by Robb

LOL. My dad is a poker donator, but he finally bought HEM. I got it working for him tonight, and I'm trying to teach him some stuff about the HUD stats.

He's been playing the 6man $26 turbo SnG's on Full Tilt.

I'm hoping he's going to join FlopTurnRiver, start using some reasonable BR management, and start winning. He's smart enough, but I can't convince him that poker is about more than just playing your cards how you feel like.
.

tank-tapper
i do believe that poker is about just playing your cards how you feel like. Just comes down to that feel being well-informed...

i don't think Max was necessarily talking about HU vs non HU poker, i think he was talking about cash vs sng?

Originally Posted by Robb

OHU poker is a big card game with small ball lines. Because so many combos are live preflop, we end up playing small ball with big hands.

i think the other huge factor is the impact of increasing blinds (vs min 100bb stacks in cash ALL the time) + the weirdness in 1-0 payouts + the strange things this leads to when you start mixing fold equity + hand equity and how that varies with respect to consequences depending on your relative stack position.

edit: and bet sizing. Bet that looks pretty retarded to a 100++bb specialist

Originally Posted by daven

i don't think Max was necessarily talking about HU vs non HU poker, i think he was talking about cash vs sng?

Originally Posted by Robb

Max had an interesting post about a well known HU cash player who got crushed during a foray into $5k HU SnG's.

Don't think we disagree... To be more clear, I still understand HU anything in terms of how it's different from 6m cash, which was my only game, really, for three years. That's why I spent some time trying to reformulate my understanding of poker and game theory in terms of HU. I think SnG players have an advantage switching to HU SnG's than cash players like me.

Originally Posted by daven

edit: and bet sizing. Bet that looks pretty retarded to a 100++bb specialist

Yeah, it's weird - a 1/4 psb on the flop can be correct in the hut's, if it's enough of villain's remaining stack. I've been thinking about this, but I need to get back home and work on some ranges and equity and stuff. But I think you're on to something here.

Hand 1

Open fold Q5o.

Hand 2

Fold to pfr w/ 93o.

Hand 3

PFR w/ K5o, villain folds pre.

_________

OK, so read is the villain seems more aggressive than typical 2hutters, and appears to know about the fold button.
_________

Hand 4

No Limit Holdem Tournament
PokerStars
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$2.00+$0.14

Stacks:
SB pityike1 (1510)
BB Hero (1490)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is BB
pityike1 raises to 60, Hero calls 40

Flop: (120, 2 players)
Hero checks, pityike1 bets 80, Hero raises to 300, pityike1 calls 220

Turn: (720, 2 players)
Hero bets 340, pityike1 folds

Final Pot: 1060

Hero wins 1060 (net +360)

pityike1 lost 360

_________

I think that paired boards are one of the biggest indicators of how awake villain is. I think it's vital to note how everyone reacts to my cbets on a paired board with 1 or fewer high cards. I also like getting reads on what villain will do facing a raise on a obvious cbet-air spot on a paired board.

I think the hand is 2hut-stainless-steel-standard. I just don't see how anything other than a spiked J is ahead of me here. If I get shoved on, I'm folding. There is no 2hutter on Full Tilt or Stars who can bluff shove here.

Also, I'm noting that he floated my raise on the flop and folded the turn. Since no draws are out, I think he either had an 8, or he's aware that I'm raising almost my entire range here. If he's aware I'm likely weak, that means he knows that his range is weak and my play is a good one. He doesn't wanna test me, but this gives insights into his thinking about paired board flops. He's willing to cbet them, but knows it's easily countered. Interesting. Probably one of the better regs at these stakes (or he had an 8 he couldn't decide what to do with). Either way, we'll know soon._________


Hand 5

Fold 73o at first opportunity.

Hand 6

This one's easy...poor bastard.

Stacks:
SB pityike1 (1160)
BB Hero (1840)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is BB
pityike1 raises to 60, Hero raises to 240, pityike1 goes all-in 1160, Hero calls 920

Flop: (2320, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (2320, 2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (2320, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 2320
Hero shows high card Ace

pityike1 shows high card Ace - lower kicker


Hero wins 2320 (net +1160)

pityike1 lost 1160

Originally Posted by Robb

Hand 3

PFR w/ K5o, villain folds pre.

_________

OK, so read is the villain seems more aggressive than typical 2hutters, and appears to know about the fold button.

My guess is that, regardless of the game you are playing, to think you have a valid read after 3 hands is we-tod-id. No disrespect.

Originally Posted by PlayToWin

My guess is that, regardless of the game you are playing, to think you have a valid read after 3 hands is we-tod-id. No disrespect.

I lol'd.

I guess I meant "conditional/initial read" and that's it's subject to change. He is a bit more agro (betting/folding) than some. A lot of folks I play only know how to open limp. So there's actually some information here.

I try to formulate a plan of attack by hand 10 of any HUT.

By then, since you're literally playing every hand, you actually have as much info as you would on a villain at a 6max table after 40 - 60 hands, depending on how tight they play.

Still, reads get better and better as the game goes on. I admit it. But to think we DON'T have initial reads after 3 hands is wrong, too, imo.

On your side of the argument, though, we have to remember it's fairly easy to get dealt 6 - 10 premium hands (or just flop like a beast) in the first 20 - 25 hands, so someone who plays "maniac" might just be on a card rush. We have to update our reads and stay calm, not take the first impression and etch the mother in granite.

Edit: fixed link (thx daven)

Dad's first FTR HH post (I'm so proud):

11+1 6m Turbo J9 Hand (First HH Post)

I would really appreciate it if folks who play 6m SnG's (he's playing $11+1's right now) might comment. I can't help him except to ask FTR regs to help him.

Also, I know some of the SnG icons on FTR, like drmcboy, mcatdog, courtiebee, and I know some of the SnG grinders like Nakamura and Rage. Any other names we could add? I am trying to develop a list of "high quality advice givers" for 6m SnG HH's, so Dad can focus on learning from them in the SnG forum.

Hope to get him into the BC soon, too, but one step at a time.

Originally Posted by Robb

I guess I meant "conditional/initial read" and that's it's subject to change. He is a bit more agro (betting/folding) than some. A lot of folks I play only know how to open limp. So there's actually some information here.

I try to formulate a plan of attack by hand 10 of any HUT.

Normally I think generalizing a player by an early read is a bad thing but I think this is absolutely true in at least nano husngs. Players that can raise pre can also fold pre, players that cannot raise pre cannot fold. And for some reason the latter is more prevalent.

I like the 10 hand attack plan. I'm gonna borrow it. I'll bring it back later.

Originally Posted by Robb

Any other names we could add?

taipan

link needs fixing, here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...st-184624.html

Originally Posted by Robb

Also, I know some of the SnG icons on FTR, like drmcboy, mcatdog, courtiebee, and I know some of the SnG grinders like Nakamura and Rage.

I can't call myself a SnG expert, and I definitely am not in the same league as drcmboy and mcat! Thanks though

daven already mentioned taipan. fjuanl is very good too.

Oh yeah and TLR makes good posts.

Forgot about TLR - nh

Just stopping in!

Checked out hand 4 (228) c/r board. I think your logic makes sense, but I think your sizing on the flop will strongly influence how correct your assumptions/thought process is.

If you make it 210 from 80, then I agree that his range is weak and he'll be folding lots on the turn etc. But, when you make it 300, you strongly polarize it to hands that will continue further.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Just stopping in!

Checked out hand 4 (228) c/r board. I think your logic makes sense, but I think your sizing on the flop will strongly influence how correct your assumptions/thought process is.

If you make it 210 from 80, then I agree that his range is weak and he'll be folding lots on the turn etc. But, when you make it 300, you strongly polarize it to hands that will continue further.

I really appreciate it, Grif, both stopping by and giving advice. I like your thinking here. I was playing around with different raise amounts in spots like this. Guess I will try smaller amounts in this spot and see what turns up. Thanks!!

HU SnG Inflection Points.

As I see it, there are times when the shape or trajectory of the match changes, when either one or both players tend to change their baseline strategy. On both Stars and Tilt, the games I play start Hero with 1500 chips. The first inflection point is when one player gets a 2k to 1k advantage in chips. The second is harder to define, but I think it happens when one player is down to 500 chips, or jam/fold territory, whichever is more. Obviously, in longer matches, the inflection points change a bit. They merge after a while as blinds increase, and disappear completely when the blinds get to 50/100. It's all jam/fold then.

At these inflection points, I try to take my hands off the keyboard and think about two things: how I should play and how villain is likely to change his play. If I have the advantage, I'm thinking about how I can keep the pressure on villain and finish him off. I'm thinking about the likely adjustments he will make and what I could do to counter. If we're at or near jam/fold territory, I'm looking for a hand or two to shovel with, just to see how he reacts to it. Jam/fold theory is easy, and I want to know if villain knows/plays it.

If I'm at a disadvantage, I want to think about how best to change it up to maximize my chances of a fight back. Usually, this means tightening up slightly and playing really agro post flop on anything that connects with me. I watch the jam/fold line and try my best to stay north of it as the blinds increase. If I end up in jam/fold territory, I tend to play a slight bit looser than "optimal" since most villains I play at the micros don't call wide enough.

I think that the game changes again when you go back through an inflection point. Example, Hero is down to 800 chips, then wins his way back to 1250. Now, the game is back to its starting point, and both players tend to play their normal starting games again for a while. Of course, we try to think about how to exploit all the tendencies we have noted.

Surprisingly, almost none of the villains I play can adjust correctly at the inflection points. They adjust, but they tend toward very exploitable strategies.

Anyway, after a few hundred SnG's, I will start posting about my inflection point research. I want to know how much of an advantage it is to be the first with a 2:1 chip lead, how often a person with < 500 chips is able to fight back and win, and so on. It's also interesting that about 20% of my SnG's since I started keeping track ended on a big hand before any inflection points were reached.

I would guess that, as the villains get better, the adjustments I need to make will become a focus of study. For example, I think Hero's strategy should change slightly in the different regions between the inflection points, to maximize his chances of crossing the next boundary in the right direction. I can't say any more right now, except that I open it up and play looser with, say, a 1750 to 1250 lead, especially against passive players, hoping to get lots of free chips with preflop raises. Right now, when I'm behind more than 2 to 1, I just play as precisely as possible post flop and slightly tighter pre, so that if we get the chips in I'm likely to have the best of it.

@ daven

My dad has a nearly new 20kw generator sitting in his shop, which he'll give me a great deal on. So I'm looking for electrician's near my house and an LP gas delivery service. I think we'll have backup power for the home by early Spring.

I hate concrete work, so I guess it's me pouring the pad. Gotta find a transfer switch, too...

I posted an entire HU SnG. Flame away, haters!!

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/heads-up-nl-holdem/2-14-euros-entire-tourney-184694.html#post1999082

The villain was pretty interesting, probably what passes for a "thinking" TAGG-reg at these stakes. He could limp, 3x pfr, and 3b-shovel preflop, but he was still pretty tight, so I ended up with a pretty accurate read on his preflop play and ranges.

I was 4 for 4 today in HU SnG's. Fifth one, there's this guy going all-in 4 of first 5 hands. I pick up AK, he shovels, I call, he flips up J9, and he wins the race.

EZ game. I'm going to bed, tho.

Originally Posted by Robb

HU2 - 12/18/10
7 AM, 4 games, 3 wins
11:30 AM, 2 games, 2 wins
1:30 PM, 2 games, 1 win
3:30 PM, 7 games, 4 wins
10 PM, 3 games, 3 wins

TOTAL: $38.70 BI, Won $52, Overall + $11.30

Above was TN pokerz, this is SC pokerz: 36 2hut's, 22 wins, 14 losses. So up +10.96 (euros), so maybe $14 + a bit? Total for trip is +$25 or so. I was playing Full Tilt mostly in TN, Stars in SC.

TN was 13 W's in 18 HUT's, SC was 22 W's in 36 HUT's, so I'm 41 of 58 (70.7 winning percentage). These are turbos, so average match is 6 - 7 minutes. Someone ought to figure out some earn/hr on that...

__________

On a related note, I have been gathering data about inflection points (see above itt) and win/loss results. First, some abbreviations:

h : Hero earns 2:1 chip lead
hh : Hero earns 5:1 chip lead, or villain is in jam/fold (<15bb stack)
v : Hero is 1:2 chip deficit
vv : Hero is 1:5 chip deficit, or in jam/fold territory

So, for these 36 2hut's I've just played, I've tracked every inflection point reached (if any), along with overall win/loss result. Of the 36, here's the breakdown for the FIRST inflection point reached (wins):

hh : 4 (4)
h : 10 (9)
none : 11 (6)
v: 6 (3)
vv: 5 (1)

Now, small sample caveat, yada yada. But the result seem to show a pattern. I'm pretty happy that when faced with a 1:2 chip deficit, I've eventually fought back and won half the time. Getting to jam/fold and fighting back is rare, but at least I haven't (yet) surrendered a 5:1 chip lead and turned it into a loss.

I'm happiest with my conversion rate for 2:1 chip leads into wins (90%). I think I'm better than most of the players I'm up against, and if the better player gets a significant chip lead, he should win a lot.

As I once started a thread by this title, I will reiterate: HOLY MOTHER OF GOD RAKE SUCKS!!

My no-rake winning after going 22 wins vs. 14 losses would be +8 BI's or 16 euros. Then there's .14 * 36 = 5.04 in rake, or about 1/3 of the winnings. I'm trying NOT to worry too much about the rake and focus instead on the win%.

I believe I will move up to the 5/6 HUT's when I get home. I need to see where I'm at bank roll wise, get my HUD sorted, and program a couple of AHK scripts I want.

AHK1. I'm thinking of programming a Nash jam/fold chart that updates with a slider to the correct jam and call hands for any number of bb effective between 1 and 15. It's interesting how much the charts change depending upon whose ordering of the hands one uses. It's not really enough to matter.

AHK2. I also want a little window for multi-tabling that has some check boxes for the 3 or 4 main strategies I employ, and a button to copy-paste text into my HUD notes from it. That way, with a quick click, I can have notes on the strategy I think is best for that villain in my HUD, ready for Hand 2 of any future match. Also, since I'm a dumbass and have trouble keeping two villains' patterns separated when multitabling, the AHK script would just keep me on track when playing villains with different styles. A few times, I've just gotten "lost" in the middle of a hand, wondering if I'm playing the right strategy for the right villain.

Final thought - single tabling HUT-ers have mass timing tells, and I'm no different. Like 2-tabling for that mix-it-up on timing deal.

Awesome stuff Robb. I think I have to go back thru and reread a bunch of your thread and let it sink in, but it's been a huge motivator for me. Thanks!

Dunno if your on stars as well but they have $2.10 2table husngs paying out obv $8 so the rake is minimal compared to the 1 table games.

Originally Posted by supahaole

Dunno if your on stars as well but they have $2.10 2table husngs paying out obv $8 so the rake is minimal compared to the 1 table games.

I've built a tiny roll on Stars, about $70 right now. I started there when XxStaxX loaned me a BI for an FTR money-added tourney, which I final tabled and ITM'd. Then I had like $18, from which I paid Stax his BI back, and then never did much there. I'm pretty fortunate not to have gone busto over there.

My BR goals are to get at least 30 BI's for the $6 + .25's on both Stars and Tilt, though I prefer playing on FTP.

Thanks for the posts - I appreciate your interest and hope you can get something out of it.

HU Turbo structures:

Stars (5 mins): 10/20, 15/30, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200
Full Tilt (3 mins): 15/30, 20/40, 25/50, 30/60, 40/80, 50/100, 60/120, 80/160, 100/200, 120/240

At the 25th minute (if you started them simultaneously), then the blinds are the same for a couple of minutes. By the way, I'm not sure I've ever seen the 100/200 level in a turbo HUT. But you need to play a bit more conservatively on Stars since you get so much more time at the 50+ bb stacks. You get 10 minutes of "small ball" on Stars compared to only 3 minutes on Tilt. But the levels after 25/50 each really change the game on Stars compared to more of a ratcheting up on Tilt.

Either way, I like to aim at a 2:1 chip lead by the 25/50's, and try to get them into jam/fold by the end of that level. If I'm the shortie, I'm racing the 15 bbs stack trying to stay away from jam/fold, and watching the blind increases carefully trying to anticipate and stay ahead of them.

When you're ahead in skill level and chips, the increase in blinds just accentuates any advantage you have.

Dad's been asking about ranges (thank the dear lord above!!). Dad - get ITT OR NO HELP FOR YOU!!!

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/beginners-circle/practicing-ranges-170467.html

I'd bump it in the BC, but I got crossways with IOPQ at the end. Not my finest moment. Still use something pretty much like this, though I've expanded it (obv) for HU play.

xmas cheer success. Kids loved Wii and played it nonstop for like 9 hours.

Glad to be home. We got here last night about dinner time after visiting 3 states and 50 or so relatives. Learned this about the relatics: the ones for whom visits to their homes would be MOST IMPROVED by alcohol are invariably the ones who are teetotalers and who get offended if you bring a few beers with you. For next Christmas, I'm gettin' a flask...

We stayed over an extra day at the relatics' place 'cuz I found a great deal on a minivan. I had financing arranged but couldn't find a deal in town. Anyone want an 11-year-old Nissan Quest that's got 190k miles on it?

Got totally killed last night waiting for the kiddos to fall asleep so I could start elf duty. I was 14 of 30, just cooler after cooler, bad beats, blah, blah. Down about $5 overall with rake. Played a bit better after midnight while waiting for some downloads for the Wii, so I'm pretty much break even the last 2 days.

All in all, a great Christmas. Hope your Christmas (and other pagan hedonism) celebrations were a blessing and a blast. Happy New Year, too.

Wrote an AHK script today for Dad. You hit "Ctrl + 4" and it displays a Tool Tip that tells you what starting combos you should shovel with if the effective stacks are 4 bbs. Works for effective stacks of 2,4, 6, 8, 10, 12 and 15. At the moment, I have two sets, one for shoving and one for calling. I'm thinking it would just be simpler to combine them, but you don't have a lot of control of the formatting inside the tool tip. It's really just designed to be a sentence or two. Still, I'm working on it, and it's readable.

I'm also working on some game management scripts for note-taking that will paste my notes on best line of attack into HEM notes in one click as the SnG ends. I'm not seeing many of the same villains, but I'm planning on grinding these a while so sooner or late I'm bumping into some former villains. Gonna know what do with them when I see 'em again, too.

Will post some AHK scripts in Tools forum later today, and link from here. They're cute. Also, since I'm scripting the jam/fold ranges anyway to help Dad, I thought I would "fill in the gaps." Most charts don't have very fine gradations of hands, but it's not that hard to parcel out the hands into more specific ranges.

Example: my current chart has ranges for 2,3,4,6,8,10,12 & 15 bbs effective stacks. Why not add in 5,7,9,11? Life doesn't change much above 12 bbs, and you can still get play some hands with a standard PFR if you want.

I know it's a lot of work for not much (any?) benefit, but I learn the ranges and hand strength by scripting them.

I want to finish my scripting by the end of 2010, then move up to the 5nl and 6nl games on Full Tilt. I'm playing euros on Stars, so I'm already moved up to ~$3, and will need more roll on Stars before I'm comfortable at the 5/6 games.

My AHK scripts for displaying the proper Jam/Fold ranges in HU short stack play are now posted in the poker tools forum.

Hey Robb, you've got a ton of good info in here. You should consider starting an actual blog somewhere so it's easier to sift through all the goodies. Maybe open up some doors for some extra income through rakeback deals, too. Although I'm not sure how that would work when linking to and from FTR. Anyway, just a thought.

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

Hey Robb, you've got a ton of good info in here. You should consider starting an actual blog somewhere so it's easier to sift through all the goodies. Maybe open up some doors for some extra income through rakeback deals, too. Although I'm not sure how that would work when linking to and from FTR. Anyway, just a thought.

Thanks but I don't think so. At least here, a dozen or so of my online friends stop by when I'm posting in other areas at FTR.

____

Update

I'm playing the $6.25's on Tilt. Also, I've worked on some "change it up" playing styles. My favorite right now is a Laggy Tagg style with about 15% limps, 50% PFR = 2.5x, and limp/3b about top 20% of hands. I flat most of my old TAGG PFR range (about top 45% of hands), ditching some of the worst implied odds hands.

Life is good one level up. There is a definite player difference, more style than substance. It seems they are more aggressive which makes them SEEM better initially, but they still pretty much suck and have very exploitable tendencies.

Just hoping to stabilize here for a few weeks and build some kind of decent bank roll to start off the New Year.

Will have some poker, fitness and life goals itt soon.

Merry Christmas - I'm still buzzing from a great Christmas with my kids.

lol moment

Odd thing - my bank's free checking went away, the place where I keep my poker $$ (when there is any, which hasn't been very often lately). Well, they changed their accounts and started charging me for not maintaining a minimum of $1,000. Right. So I end up changing to their "small business" account, which is free, and which poker does qualify for.

So here's the funny part. You have to pick a DBA name. I had to ask what that meant: Doing business as... . I guess it's your small business name, but it's just for banking purposes. My banker suggested Robb Sinn Poker. Nope.

I decided on...


...wait for it...



Robb Sinn Online Investmests


Well, I laughed.

All right, here's my preflop for 6HUT's.

TAGG STANDARD (45%)

PFR = 3x (no limps - raise these hands)
Any two cards 8 or better
54s+
All pp's
Ax and Kx

LAGGY TAGG (60%, ~20% open limps)

PFR = 2.5x (or limp - see below)
Any two cards 7 or better
54s+, 64s+
All pp's
Ax and Kx
Qx and Jxs

Here, I just limp 25% of ALL the above hands (randomized based on starting combos). Then I add the worst 8 - 10% of all the rest for a nicely organized and deceptive limping range. As I get more comfortable limping, I'm doing it more often, so I'll have to revisit how much of the quality range gets limped. I don't want it to sag much in quality or, imo, the whole purpose is defeated. I want to limp a VERY different range than expected and clean up on TPGK+ type hands that won't seem to be in my range.

Experiment has worked well. It's pretty clear that almost no mistakes prfelops are going to get punished at these stakes, so you can pretty much open what you want how you want if you've got even half a clue post flop.

Lots of negative variance tonight. HEM says I'm $20 behind expectation, though I have no idea how it calculates that. I do know I've been coolered a couple times, and the computer doesn't think of coolers as luck. I also know I've gotten my money in good a LOT tonight, and faced the bad beats. Still, I can play better, but I think that if I just played this well night in and night out, I would be fine.

Overall, I'm 21 wins vs. 19 losses, so about a dollar up after rake. So, played for points and rakeback tonight. Still, the thing I like about HUT's is that, even with bad variance, they're just aren't very many negative nights. You can establish a skill difference here that just makes running negative over 50+ HUT's pretty unlikely.

Kill Everyone came in the mail today. Interesting reading. Love all the maths and charts.

I love the name. Hope business is good!

Originally Posted by supahaole

I love the name. Hope business is good!

Thanks, me 2!!

OK, so I was dreading this business trip (math geek conference) first week of January. It's the first week of classes, and I've enjoyed some time off, so working extra to get ready and leave town - no joy.

It's New Orleans, cool, but not gonna be there with anyone I would want to go to Bourbon Street with, so good food, some cheap booze, do the conference and get out.

THEN I REALIZED GAMBLING'S LEGAL THERE!!

Now I'm thinkin' the trip might not be a bust. Checked out poker rooms, found that Harra's New Orleans is 3 blocks - only 3 freakin' blocks from the conference center. The conference hotels had filled up, so they had their $99 rate available at the Doubletree which, since the stars are aligning, is across the street from Harrah's.

Z. O. M. G.

Now, gotta get some cash to play. Called Harrah's, asked for the poker room, and they've got $1/2, $2/5 and $10/20 nlh tables, with 100xSB minimum buyins and max buyins up to the largest stack on the table (at $10/20, there's no limit at all). Next step, get at least one buyin OK'd with the wife who is a wonderful woman who's actually glad I play poker as my main hobby rather than golf or hunting or season tickets to a sports team or some other activity that would keep out of the house all the time. We discuss the finances, and decide a $200 early birthday present is appropriate which, since I checked ahead of time, is one 100bb buyin to the game I want to sit in.

Oh, yeah, and if I win anything, we split the difference above $200 and put the $200 back into the family budget and I get a real birthday present in February. If I lose, no harm, no foul and no other birthday present. Sort of like a backer. She's probably happy I'm heading for the casino in New Orleans rather than the strip clubs, Bourbon street and whorehouses. I'm not much into that scene, but a walk down Bourbon street is always educational, even if you're with a bunch of math geeks, most of whom seem to have more of a theoretical knowledge of life rather than much experience living it (me included, though poker keeps me in touch with real people, somewhat).

So...that's me, having played live poker exactly once in the past 20 years, off to the casino next Wednesday with $200 burning a hole in my pocket and about 10 hours to go busto.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

If I'm done in 10 hands, it's back up to the room for $2 Heads Up SNG's on the hotel's free WiFi, an good night's sleep, and a sad flight home the next day. If I'm up a BI, that's me playing until dawn, gettin' hammered and flying home tired and drunk as hell.

Oh, yeah, and the whole trip (except the $200 gambling money) is paid in full by the university I work for. Thanks, guys.

Originally Posted by Robb

Odd thing - my bank's free checking went away, the place where I keep my poker $$ (when there is any, which hasn't been very often lately). Well, they changed their accounts and started charging me for not maintaining a minimum of $1,000. Right. So I end up changing to their "small business" account, which is free, and which poker does qualify for.

Now go get yourself an EIN, hire a sexy secretary as a sub-contractor to bring you drinks and give back rubs while grinding. Then write it off as business expense, along with your 'dedicated' office space and your biz will be smooth sailing!

Back to monotablings *sigh*

I can 2-table the $2 games for a good win rate, apparently, but not the 5 euro and $6 games. I get luckier when I'm 1-tabling, which isn't all that surprising. I think I grind just that little bit more out of each hand, folding one street earlier every few hands, picking up an extra bet with the right line every few hands. So I'm up 2200 to 800 instead of 2k to 1k when we go racing the first time. There's a big difference in game state there if he doubles through with only 800 chips.

Good news, after switching to 1-tabling, I have done well at the higher stakes. Volume is overrated. My hourly is MUCH higher 1-tabling. Wonder if I'll ever be good enough at splitting my attention to 2-table HU's effectively? If not, then any serious Iron Man bonuses will have to wait until I'm at the $10 and $11 games. Still, I'm up $100 in December, and hope to increase that a good bit before 2011 kicks in. I get to start 2011 with a day of grinding - the kids are going to their grandparents for a few days starting tomorrow around lunch time. So Valerie and I will be kidless for a while, and I hope to play a good bit.

HU Reads.

I have been taking notes on most big hands in my HUT's, and I am close to finishing an AHK hotstring notetaking script. I doubt my effort would help many folks at ring or other tourneys since the reads and ranges are so different. But I'll post it in the Tools forum, and link to it.

The better notes have led to more refined styles of playing. I have been developing a style I call Laggy Tagg, which has several variants. The main line includes about 20% limps (about 1/3 of which are limp/3b's), another 50% PFR's, and lots of 3betting and raising opp's limps. BTW, even though I have a basic template for playing certain hands, I do change it up based on game flow and reads. The style is just suggestive, not constraining. I can play Laggy Tagg "value town" which ditches the 3b'ing. I can play Laggy Tagg "small ball" which opens even wider, and uses a lot more bets and raises but almost all of them min-opens and half psb's or less on the flop and turn.

Laggy Tagg "value" is for stations obv. Play lots of hands, keep it small preflop, and bet for value with decent hands since he'll call down a couple streets with 3rd pair and think 2PGK is the nuts.

Laggy Tagg "small ball" is for that bad Tagg-reg or weak-tight player that's too "fit or fold" on the flop.

Laggy Tagg 3b is for the TAGG standard player who is decent at this level. Cbets are chosen with care but there's barreling in good spots, c/r's and turn raises. The 3b'ing is pretty wide, and limp/3b is a lot wider, too. (I do limp/call some, but not much, and I think it's pretty cards face up when I do, which will be a problem when I move up and bears some thinking about some day.)

My Tagg standard game is for the maniacs who are like glue, playing every hand, calling a lot, betting a lot. You can't seem to get them to fold, so bluffing is out. They're aren't stations, exactly, 'cuz they can bet right out. But their ranges are so wide and weak that, once you get some reads you can tighten it up and outplay them postflop, where it only takes a couple of decent hands or even one big bluff to turn the game around and get the advantage.

I can go nittier or play maniac, but the situations where I do are very rare. At the moment, I play an ABC style. I try to beat villains with A, and only go BC if I have too. I almost never pull out the fancy plays since you don't really need them until things get desperate.

Some thoughts on live play. I am/was fairly new to it and it takes me a while to get used to it. Biggest thing I can recommend is buy in short(100), at first, you can always add more. This way you have some time to vet used to the action without putting your entire roll on the line. It will also make the game easier since live STD raises are larger a 12-15 raise with 3 callers is common in a decent game, which means if you have AK-AJ and hit top pair you basically have to stack off on the flop since the SPR will be close to 1.

Good luck to you. I really enjoy live. Btw, I'm sure you know that your BR is a bit thin.

Originally Posted by !Luck

Btw, I'm sure you know that your BR is a bit thin.

one-hand downswong and i'm done (plz plz ++ variance)