Taking the next step: The evolution of a Grinder.

Well another 4k hands down, and another losing session. Lost 3 more BI's, but was down 7.5 at one point. Including Mondays run I hit a 12 BI downswing. This session was again more of the same. QQ was down -720 all by itself. Lost 4 BI's with it, 2 QQ v AK AI pre, QQ v AJs AI pre, and QQ v TT AI pre. I also lost 3 more flips, overall I was 1 for 6 in flips. Lost another BI when KQs hit an under flush. If I didn't get some nice hits with AA, I would have lost a ton.

This has to end soon. I am now down 7.5 BI's overall for this week, and its only Tuesday Morning. I am playing solid +EV poker. My EV graph is sick, net run is -3.7 bb/100.

u r expecting to lose so u do
u r too result dependent only look at ur weekly results

i expect look at ur poker tracker throughout the session - like every two minutes which makes u too results dependent and makes u think 'o no i am losing again' and get all depressed at the start of a session and then get too u[ptight.

i no this is ur problem. u r gonna keep losing unless u change. or u can keep lying to urself and keep losing money to superiour poker players.

my advice is get rid of poker tracker

i hope u turn it around but dont think u will unless u change

Sorry Zidane but 1 in 6 for flips and combined with the vbet hands in the post before last it looks like he's playing good to me and being very unlucky. Since you were ahead in all 6 flips, to only win 1 is like pretty sick.

Hope they start coming in soon fella

ok lets just tell him what he wants to hear then, thats what this thread seems to be for, with those of us trying to be honest and help the guy told they are wrong.

U have been so unlcuky jager and that is the only reason for your 70 buy in losing run in unnder a month. u r clearly amazing and playing well!

Just got done with an afternoon session. Down another 5.5 BI's. I can't win a big pot to save my life. Lots of coolers this session. QQ v KK, Top 2 v set, JJ v KK v super light 3better. Hit a couple of sets which is nice and all, but I am losing a ton. I am getting killed in hands that aren't going to showdown. I am not hitting any draws and I am being drawn out on a ton. Here is a good example:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($278.95)
BB ($212.70)
UTG ($117)
MP ($40.75)
Hero ($236.90)
Button ($194.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 6.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, SB calls $9, 1 fold, UTG calls $8.

Flop: ($32) K, 8, 6 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $20, SB calls $20, UTG folds.

Turn: ($72) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero raises to $80, SB calls $64.

River: ($232) K (2 players)
SB bets $168.95 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $63.05

Afterwards Villain said he had AA, which is really irrelevant. I knew he had a top end hand. This is how bad its gotten, I have had 1 winning day in the last 10 days. This also happens to be the only day where I won more big pots than I lost and my W$SD is greater than 50%. Every other day my W$SD is less than 48%. Since last Thursday I am down 18 BI's. Since 06/25 I am down 60 BI's including 2/4.


Shot at 2007-07-31

Well I was kinda wrong. I went through my latest 18 BI downer, and found out that I played pots where I won or lost 3/4 BI's or more 60 times. I have 30 winners and 30 losers. This is still not acceptable, so I checked each hand to see where I was at when the money went in.

60 total hands: I won 30 and lost 30
+EV: 39
-EV:10
Flipping:11

In the 10 -EV hands, 8 were coolers, one was a bad call, and one I flat out missclicked for $150.
I won only 2 flips out of the 11 for a whopping 18%.
So I 'shoulda' won 39 + ~5 flips for a total of 44 out of 60, not 30.

I have a good feeling that this is why my EV graph says I should be up over this stretch.

I always turn on my computer pumped about a big session in poker and stop by FTR first to read what's new. Then I end up coming across this thread and it scares the piss out of me every time.

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I always turn on my computer pumped about a big session in poker and stop by FTR first to read what's new. Then I end up coming across this thread and it scares the piss out of me every time.

Sorry...

Well another 1700 hands -5.5 BI's. I lost 3 in the first 100 hands back on the tables, 2 suckouts and a cooler. I am now down almost 3k since yesterday. If this keeps up its back to 100 until I go broke. I am getting killed whenever I 3bet out of the blinds.

I think you should stop playing too many tables at once.
Also, keep big pots for big pot hands. For me, that is sets+.
With that, I mean don't threebet with a hand that's not worthy a threebet. One such hand, you're never gonna fold anyway.
I believe this will keep you out of a lot of trouble.

But then again, for now I'm a SnG player until I can get to 100NL, so don't pay too much attention to what I say. I only have some limited experience at 25NL, but for now, I believe SnG's at around the same level are more profitable for me.

Here is a graph since last Thursday:


Shot at 2007-08-01

I have played 20k hands since Sunday and have lost 20 BI's , and 25 since last Thursday. I run like complete crap every day. This is my last hand from July(I know the date is 08/01, but I started this table before 12:00, so it is my last in my DB):

POKERSTARS GAME #11249256848: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/08/01 - 04:34:16 (ET)
Table 'Antonia II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: MrteddyKGB ($704.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Devriesimo ($227 in chips)
Seat 3: DaveMacD ($170.40 in chips)
Seat 4: Jager244 ($211.85 in chips)
Seat 5: akman111 ($116.80 in chips)
Seat 6: dolla$time ($366.05 in chips)
akman111: posts small blind $1
dolla$time: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jager244 [Qd Qc]
MrteddyKGB: folds
Devriesimo: raises $6 to $8
DaveMacD: calls $8
Jager244: raises $24 to $32
akman111: folds
dolla$time: folds
Devriesimo: raises $195 to $227 and is all-in
DaveMacD said, "yeah kick his butt" <-----------------------note the animosity towards me, he says I take his money all the time...
DaveMacD: folds
Jager244: calls $179.85 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [3c As 7c]
*** TURN *** [3c As 7c] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [3c As 7c Ac] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Devriesimo: shows [8h 8s] (a full house, Eights full of Aces)
Jager244: mucks hand
Devriesimo collected $431.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $434.70 | Rake $3
Board [3c As 7c Ac 8c]
Seat 1: MrteddyKGB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Devriesimo showed [8h 8s] and won ($431.70) with a full house, Eights full of Aces
Seat 3: DaveMacD folded before Flop
Seat 4: Jager244 (button) mucked [Qd Qc]
Seat 5: akman111 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: dolla$time (big blind) folded before Flop


I had a good 2p2 regular tell me today that he thought I was just pwning 200nl. He even has me as a big winner in his DB and I just started seeing him in July, I think hes on crack. It is my one year anniversary since I started to play poker seriously. My first 10 months were all winners, and I supproted myself on poker. The last 2 months have been awful, and I think if this keeps I will be broke well before October. I now think I suck at poker, there is no other explaination. I lost 50 BI's in July. 135k hands and lost 10k. I have watched 15 or so CR videos. I play pretty close to how those guys play, in fact very close to some of them. I make +EV plays, understand odds and position, and read hands with the best of them, yet I am a loser. There is no longer any light at the end of the tunnel, I will just keep playing until I go busto...

so like how much do have?? Infinite funds!!

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

so like how much do have?? Infinite funds!!

I had 3 5 figure months, March(12k), April(11k), and May(16k). With my bonuses I also showed a profit in June, even though I lost 4k on the tables completely due to my shot a 2/4. I am still well overrolled for 1/2, and I have the 4k milestone bonus coming any day now. I think I am using most of that money for my vacation though.

ah okay, just wondering since you seem to always lose

Why a non-US player plays the $200NL SH games on Pokerstars I will never know?!

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I think to sum up what you're trying to say. Just because a player makes a bad play doesnt mean you didn't too.
Let's say there's a sitation where you're ahead of opp 99% of the time in a certain spot and opp calls anyways. You happened to be bluffing that 1% of the time and lose. What a dumb call by opp right? Well what a dumb play by you. If opp is calling 100% of the time than we should never bluff him in this spot ever.

ya ty for summarizing. for some reason seeing that hand got me frustrated...and then i wrote too much.

jager, plz stop bluffing when ppl call way too much!!!

Originally Posted by silu_nz

Why a non-US player plays the $200NL SH games on PokerStars I will never know?!

I am a US player...

And I will stop bluffing too much when I have ZERO FE.

I deceided last week to find a way to improve my blind play. I am not as bad as a lot of people in my DB, but I feel that I should be so much better. I think that the difference between the good players and the great players is their blind play. I see most of the good players that give me trouble(ie the ones who are better than me), are awesome with their blind play. A lot of them are winners in the SB OR they are winning back a ton in the BB. I have found that reraising my small PPs in the blinds is becoming ultra spewy as soon as a good players gets that read. I have perhaps found a way to play my small PPs without having to 3bet them preflop, this took about 6 hours of multible levels of EV calcs along with range estimates/play back %'s and counter EV calcs and more %'s. We will see if this works , I think it will but really won't know until at least 100k hands of testing. So after learning a lot about poker and how to counter the way the standard Tag/Lag's of the world play their hands, I deceided to reengineer my entire game. I spent another 6 hours today, working on every position, going through my 500k hand DB, seeing how I played my hands and how much I won with them and where. I based most of my new game around my plan for my Blind Defense, because I feel that it is so strong I should be using it UTG and a lot in MP. The CO and BT are a little different, so there is obviously some adjustments there, however I think it will still be quite effective in certain situations to maximize my value and also make playing me seem like hell, as my image at times may get way out of line but never into -EV territory. I think this plan will put me around a 23/19 game. I am not going to discuss specifics about this at this time, but hopefully you will seem them in my results. Wish me luck!!

Originally Posted by Jager

I deceided last week to find a way to improve my blind play. I am not as bad as a lot of people in my DB, but I feel that I should be so much better. I think that the difference between the good players and the great players is their blind play. I see most of the good players that give me trouble(ie the ones who are better than me), are awesome with their blind play. A lot of them are winners in the SB OR they are winning back a ton in the BB. I have found that reraising my small PPs in the blinds is becoming ultra spewy as soon as a good players gets that read. I have perhaps found a way to play my small PPs without having to 3bet them preflop, this took about 6 hours of multible levels of EV calcs along with range estimates/play back %'s and counter EV calcs and more %'s. We will see if this works , I think it will but really won't know until at least 100k hands of testing. So after learning a lot about poker and how to counter the way the standard Tag/Lag's of the world play their hands, I deceided to reengineer my entire game. I spent another 6 hours today, working on every position, going through my 500k hand DB, seeing how I played my hands and how much I won with them and where. I based most of my new game around my plan for my Blind Defense, because I feel that it is so strong I should be using it UTG and a lot in MP. The CO and BT are a little different, so there is obviously some adjustments there, however I think it will still be quite effective in certain situations to maximize my value and also make playing me seem like hell, as my image at times may get way out of line but never into -EV territory. I think this plan will put me around a 23/19 game. I am not going to discuss specifics about this at this time, but hopefully you will seem them in my results. Wish me luck!!

dont u think u r too into all the statistics. stop trying to play with certain stats - who cares! just take what the games give u! just play dude, just play and dont worry about money or stats or whatever, and dont be predictable.

zidane, why are you always such an asshole in this thread? i dont think you know what it is like to run bad. your the one who sounds dumb trying to go pro with an 8k br playing mtts or w/e.

Originally Posted by EzDuzIt

zidane, why are you always such an asshole in this thread? i dont think you know what it is like to run bad. your the one who sounds dumb trying to go pro with an 8k br playing mtts or w/e.

hehe, fair play mate. sorry u feel that way, i just think he is running bad and doing the same stuff he has tried before to snap out of it. i am sure jager is a good player and i wish him all the luck in the world, i am just trying to help by giving him something to think about. i think it has gone past running bad and am glad jager is starting to think about changing his game and fixing leaks rather than blaming luck. just saying he shud maybe just play whatever the game gives him, and not try too hard to become a certain type of player with certain stats just for the sake of it or because it is considered 'good'.

I am giving my opinion, and trying to be honest and help the guy. i dont wanna come across as an asshole but if thats what u or anyone thinks then i am sorry bout that.

however, i do agree with u that I am clearly not doing any good here though i guess so i will stay out of this thread in future.

gl jager, hope u figure it all out.

p.s. i am dumb

Well I started this thread to fix my leaks. I am also not trying to play certain stat game(ie I want to play 27/22 or 16/12). I have never said that. I only stated that I worked on my game and I think it is leading me towards a 23/19 game. I think some people have gotten the wrong impression of what my goals are here. I am working to get better. I have been running bad, in fact really bad. There is nothing that can explain why I consistently won for 10 months, then all of a sudden lost every time I played without changing the way I played.. All the running bad has done is motivate me to get better. In fact so much better that even if I run this bad again, I may only lose a few BI's or even be BE in that stretch.

this thread is very very scary for a player like me with only 15 buy ins left in my online account. However, im a FR player and i wonder do you ever play FR or is it 6-max all the way? FR is definitely a lot less variance and switching over for a week might help you break out of this funk. Also, how come you dont play at Full Tilt with rakeback? Someone logging as many hands as you do would make a ton of money or do you make more money through star's FPP promotions? Good luck turning this thing around for good.

I don't play at FT right now cause I should hit all the milestone bonuses at stars. If this happens I think It will work out to around 33% psuedo rakeback.

Played a few thousand hands since my latest game plan redo. I feel much more confident in what I am doing in the blinds. I also don't think that my plan is going to work as well UTG or MP, but we shall see. Over my last 5800 hands I am a slight winner in the SB and almost BE in the BB. I have lost $63 overall out of both blinds, which I think is just great so far. I unfortuantely tilted off 2 BI's in this stretch, so I need to knock that shit off. I have had the usual beats too, including 4 under flushes 2 of which where K high , I also sucked out a 2 outer though so that made me feel better .

If you actually are long term break even from the blinds please explain your stratey because that seems impossible.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

If you actually are long term break even from the blinds please explain your stratey because that seems impossible.

Actually my goal here is -.10 bb/hand combined, but I would be very happy with -.15 or maybe even -.20.

It seems I will just continue to run bad, I have lost 5 BI's...

I was AI 14 hands today, I won 4. I was ahead 10 times, and way ahead 9 (a 1 outer, 2 3 outers, 1 4 outer, and 1 70/30 hand)with 1 flip. I am a loser with KK and QQ today and BE with AA. The other 4 loses were 2 tilt bluffs , 1 QQ v KK cooler, and 1 QQ on a low rag flop vs a fishes set...

My stats show I was playing well, Won when Saw Flop 42%, Won $ at Showdwon 45%. As far as my blinds go, I have lost a lot due to my big hands losing big pots, I am now down to -.14 bb/ hand combined over last 8k hands. I also am getting killed on the button, again due to my big hands losing big pots.

ive never seen u post about running hot

Originally Posted by sauce123

ive never seen u post about running hot

Man if I write a blog it would be the opposite...running good, sucking out all the time, running insanely good, sucking out..etc etc

lol

Originally Posted by Jager

It seems I will just continue to run bad, I have lost 5 BI's...

I was AI 14 hands today, I won 4. I was ahead 10 times, and way ahead 9 (a 1 outer, 2 3 outers, 1 4 outer, and 1 70/30 hand)with 1 flip. I am a loser with KK and QQ today and BE with AA. The other 4 loses were 2 tilt bluffs , 1 QQ v KK cooler, and 1 QQ on a low rag flop vs a fishes set...

My stats show I was playing well, Won when Saw Flop 42%, Won $ at Showdwon 45%. As far as my blinds go, I have lost a lot due to my big hands losing big pots, I am now down to -.14 bb/ hand combined over last 8k hands. I also am getting killed on the button, again due to my big hands losing big pots.

sounds bad - what is ur br now just out of interest? u still got a big enuff roll for nl200

Originally Posted by sauce123

ive never seen u post about running hot

There is one in here somewhere, where I ran like 4.5 bb/100 over like 10k hands. Sunday was decent, I think I was up around 5 BI's. Most of my sessions since this started go something like this, I sit down and drop 3+ BI's in the first 500-700 hands. I always have a good mindset and then I get a couple of beats/coolers. I then spend the rest of my session being patient and waiting for more opportunities to pull back to even. Some sessions I get there rather easily, and some I just keep getting beats/coolers, like today. I am still overrolled for 200nl, and I am extremely confident in the way I'm playing. I am consistently putting the money in with the best hand, and this has been that way for the length of this entire thread.

Well after another 3300 hands tonight, I am now down 11.5 BI's since yesterday. I lost all 5 BI's tonight to 2 50+ VPIP fish, who would not stop hitting every single flop. One of them left the table with 10 BI's the other had almost 4 when I left. I am now completely frustrated. The one guy just kept shoving or betting hard, and had a hand everytime. It was me with 4 other regs and he took all the money playing every hand, 700+ of mine. I am now down 74 BI's since the end of June. Not too much happened on my other tables, except I lost a AA v JJ 3bet pot when the JJ hit quads. My W$WSF is still at 41.5 over this stretch, my goal right now is 42+. My week so far:

I have won about half of this back so far. I actually went on a little heater, I won 4 BI's my first 150 hnads of tonights session, although I only ended up 3.5 for the night(AA was a loser). I also won 3 BI's yesterday afternoon. My new blind defense may actually be working, however I am reverting to my old self sometimes and spewing when its SB v BB or when there is a limper out there. I need to work on this situation. I have been rasing pretty liberally here, but I tend to spew when I hit any pair. Still getting better...

Finished up last week down 4 BIs. Not bad for the way the week started out. Today so far has been another nightmare. Lost some monster hands to suckouts. AA on a Jxx flop v JJ in a 4bet pot for -320. Then very next hand AA v 97 same villain and he turns 2 pair for -140. I was down 600 with AA at one point, about 800 total. Then I get KK v AA twice, 99 v KK on a K9x flop, along with this gem:

POKERSTARS GAME #11461337338: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/08/13 - 03:51:00 (ET)
Table 'Benetnash' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: crazyal25 ($396.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Jager244 ($219.75 in chips)
Seat 3: akevin87 ($358.25 in chips)
Seat 4: monkeyboymk3 ($315.65 in chips)
Seat 5: BleedBlue33 ($243.20 in chips)
Seat 6: paleksander ($200 in chips)
akevin87: posts small blind $1
monkeyboymk3: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jager244 [7h 7d]
BleedBlue33: raises $5 to $7
paleksander: folds
crazyal25: folds
Jager244: calls $7
akevin87: calls $6
monkeyboymk3: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [4d 4s 7c]
akevin87: checks
monkeyboymk3: checks
BleedBlue33 is disconnected
BleedBlue33 is connected
BleedBlue33: checks
Jager244: checks
*** TURN *** [4d 4s 7c] [2h]
akevin87: bets $16
monkeyboymk3: folds
BleedBlue33: folds
Jager244: raises $34 to $50
akevin87: calls $34
*** RIVER *** [4d 4s 7c 2h] [2s]
akevin87: checks
Jager244: bets $75
akevin87: raises $226.25 to $301.25 and is all-in
Jager244 said, "you really have quads??"
Jager244: calls $87.75 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
akevin87: shows [4c 4h] (four of a kind, Fours)
Jager244: mucks hand
akevin87 collected $450.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $453.50 | Rake $3
Board [4d 4s 7c 2h 2s]
Seat 1: crazyal25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Jager244 (button) mucked [7h 7d]
Seat 3: akevin87 (small blind) showed [4c 4h] and won ($450.50) with four of a kind, Fours
Seat 4: monkeyboymk3 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: BleedBlue33 folded on the Turn
Seat 6: paleksander folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I am only down ~500 now, which is unbelievable. I am flat out playing great, I am just not hitting enough hands to keep everyone honest, and when I do I get killed. I am still losing more big hands than I am winning, and I am getting the $$$ in ahead 80%+ of the time. Gonna grind through it...

It only took 8k hands, but I was up for Monday 0.75 BI. I think that if I was playing my game from June that I would be down double digit BI's since last Monday. I have made so many adjustments and I am just generally feeling great about my game. I had several stretches were my W$SD was ~40%, but my W$WSF was ~42%. I really feel that your W$WSF% is a real key to how good you really are. If you are strong in the blinds(were you play ~40% of your hands) and your can get your W$WSF% above 42, you are in the top tier of players at your level regardless of winrate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($119.60)
Button ($347.40)
Hero ($305.05)
BB ($202)
UTG ($208.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, UTG calls $8.

Flop: ($22) 4, T, A (2 players)
Hero bets $20, UTG calls $20.

Turn: ($62) K (2 players)
Hero bets $40, UTG raises to $100, Hero raises to $275.05, UTG calls $78.75 (All-In).

River: ($419.50) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $419.50

Results in white below:
UTG has As Ah (full house, aces full of fours).
Hero has Kh Ks (full house, kings full of fours).
Outcome: UTG wins $419.50. Hero wins $96.30.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($198)
SB ($522.60)
Hero ($379.40)
UTG ($286.20)
MP ($297.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
1 fold, MP raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($17) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $10, MP raises to $34, Hero raises to $120, MP calls $86.

Turn: ($257) (2 players)
Hero bets $251.4 (All-In), MP calls $169.25 (All-In).

River: ($595.50) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $595.50

Results in white below:
Hero has 9h 9d (three of a kind, nines).
MP has Td Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: MP wins $595.50. Hero wins $82.15.

The bottom one is the 2nd underset in 3 days for a ~$300 loss. Even with these hands tonight I still managed to pull almost 2 BI's. When I hit a normal variance run I think I may exploid for several BI's. I feel great at the tables right now.

So I can now say I played with a 'real pro', some Vanessa something or other. Got into it a little with her too.

PokerStars Game #11514445568: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/08/16 - 04:53:23 (ET)
Table 'Hertha' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jager244 ($293.40 in chips)
Seat 2: xinghua ($209.55 in chips)
Seat 3: adam001 ($208 in chips)
Seat 4: pennpal ($196 in chips)
Seat 5: suckoutqueen ($1936.35 in chips)
Seat 6: strangehold ($197 in chips)
xinghua: posts small blind $1
adam001: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jager244 [2c 2d]
pennpal said, "i support that initiative wholeheartedly"
pennpal: raises $6 to $8
suckoutqueen: calls $8
strangehold: folds
Jager244: calls $8
xinghua: folds
adam001: folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 2s 4s]
pennpal: bets $16
suckoutqueen: calls $16
Jager244: raises $34 to $50
pennpal: folds
suckoutqueen: calls $34
*** TURN *** [6d 2s 4s] [8d]
suckoutqueen: checks
Jager244: bets $90
suckoutqueen: raises $1788.35 to $1878.35 and is all-in
Jager244: calls $145.40 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [6d 2s 4s 8d] [Js]
pennpal said, "unfortunately not"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
suckoutqueen: shows [8s 9s] (a flush, Jack high)
Jager244: mucks hand
suckoutqueen collected $610.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $613.80 | Rake $3
Board [6d 2s 4s 8d Js]
Seat 1: Jager244 (button) mucked [2c 2d]
Seat 2: xinghua (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: adam001 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: pennpal folded on the Flop
Seat 5: suckoutqueen showed [8s 9s] and won ($610.80) with a flush, Jack high
Seat 6: strangehold folded before Flop (didn't bet)


This was the ensuing chat:
suckoutqueen said, "gawd u sucj'"
suckoutqueen said, "suck"
suckoutqueen said, "yourr eos bad"

And I thought it was good to go in as an 80/20 favorite...

she's one of the best/craziest HU players online.

Fsxleduck on 2+2, Vaness something, she busted out of a WSOP Final table on a huge bluff with like 830 that ran into AA.

Don't take insults from people who cannot spell

Originally Posted by Jager

PokerStars Game #11514445568: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/08/16 - 04:53:23 (ET)
Table 'Hertha' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jager244 ($293.40 in chips)
Seat 2: xinghua ($209.55 in chips)
Seat 3: adam001 ($208 in chips)
Seat 4: pennpal ($196 in chips)
Seat 5: suckoutqueen ($1936.35 in chips)
Seat 6: strangehold ($197 in chips)

Holy shit, nice stack.

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Originally Posted by Jager

PokerStars Game #11514445568: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/08/16 - 04:53:23 (ET)
Table 'Hertha' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jager244 ($293.40 in chips)
Seat 2: xinghua ($209.55 in chips)
Seat 3: adam001 ($208 in chips)
Seat 4: pennpal ($196 in chips)
Seat 5: suckoutqueen ($1936.35 in chips)
Seat 6: strangehold ($197 in chips)

Holy shit, nice stack.

Yes nice, but her name definately applies. I have never seen anyone put their money in behind and win so much. At first I thought she was a major fish, then I just thought she just overplayed every hand, which still made her a fish. She played 284 hands, W$SD 85%. Her is how she won it:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($388)
Button ($197)
SB ($394.60)
BB ($208.30)
UTG ($545.65)
MP ($142.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, 3.
UTG raises to $8, MP calls $8, 2 folds, SB calls $7, 1 fold.

Flop: ($26) 4, T, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $22, MP calls $22, SB calls $22.

Turn: ($92) 7 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

River: ($92) 2 (3 players)
SB bets $54, UTG calls $54, MP folds.

Final Pot: $200

Results in white below:
SB has Ah 2c (three of a kind, twos).
UTG has 5h 6h (flush, ten high).
Outcome: UTG wins $200.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($259)
SB ($214.25)
BB ($134.30)
UTG ($203.45)
MP ($1172.20)
CO ($376.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
1 fold, MP raises to $10, 3 folds, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($21) , , (2 players)
BB checks, MP bets $16, BB calls $16.

Turn: ($53) (2 players)
BB checks, MP bets $152, BB calls $108.30 (All-In).

River: ($269.60) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $269.60

Results in white below:
BB has Tc Js (one pair, jacks).
MP has 8c Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP wins $313.30.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($300)
UTG ($205)
MP ($315.80)
CO ($200)
Button ($947.20)
SB ($344)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
1 fold, MP calls $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $12, 2 folds, MP calls $10.

Flop: ($27) , , (2 players)
MP bets $12, Button raises to $30, MP calls $18.

Turn: ($87) (2 players)
MP bets $32, Button calls $32.

River: ($151) (2 players)
MP bets $64, Button calls $64.

Final Pot: $279

Results in white below:
MP has 9s Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
Button has Kh As (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: Button wins $279.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($314)
Button ($200)
SB ($356.15)
BB ($200.30)
UTG ($743.15)
MP ($139.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
UTG raises to $8, MP calls $8, 4 folds.

Flop: ($19) , , (2 players)
UTG bets $14, MP raises to $28, UTG raises to $735.15, MP calls $103.15 (All-In).

Turn: ($281.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($281.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $281.30

Results in white below:
UTG has Ad Jh (one pair, aces).
MP has Kh 6h (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG wins $885.30.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($319.70)
MP ($248.25)
CO ($56.50)
Button ($215.80)
SB ($2251.95)
BB ($309.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
3 folds, Button raises to $8, SB raises to $28, 1 fold, Button raises to $90, SB calls $62.

Flop: ($182) , , (2 players)
SB bets $2161.95 (All-In), Button calls $125.80 (All-In).

Turn: ($433.60) (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($433.60) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $433.60

Results in white below:
SB has 7c 9c (straight flush, nine high).
Button has Jh Js (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: SB wins $2469.75.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($197)
MP ($225.50)
CO ($804.95)
Button ($197)
SB ($311.10)
BB ($144.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
2 folds, CO raises to $8, 1 fold, SB raises to $26, 1 fold, CO calls $18.

Flop: ($54) , , (2 players)
SB bets $34, CO raises to $154, SB raises to $285.1, CO calls $131.10.

Turn: ($624.20) (2 players)

River: ($624.20) (2 players)

Final Pot: $624.20

Results in white below:
SB has 3s As (one pair, aces).
CO has Ks Js (one pair, kings).
Outcome: SB wins $624.20.

And my favorite:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($256.80)
UTG ($218.85)
MP ($200)
CO ($59.15)
Button ($840)
SB ($856.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
UTG raises to $8, 1 fold, CO raises to $40, Button raises to $840, SB raises to $856.85, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO calls $19.15 (All-In).

Flop: ($187.45) , , (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($187.45) (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($187.45) (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $1766

Results in white below:
SB has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and fives).
CO has Qc Qd (two pair, queens and fives).
Button has 6d 8d (straight flush, eight high).
Outcome: Button wins $1766.

Now can you see how great I played the above hand with her? I new I was getting C/RAI on the turn with whatever she had that I thought was going to be a draw.

I think ive found the problem:

Your table selection is beyond horrible.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I think ive found the problem:

Your table selection is beyond horrible.

Actually its been real good lately. This table had only 1 reg when I first sat down with 3 whales. It turned sour after she broke them, and the other regs sat down. Plus I had position on someone pushing any 5 outs on half the flops/turns they were playing...

good, i like to make sure i have at least 1 fish to my right. Table selection can go for miles, playing at a reggy table its hard to grind out a good winrate.

After have a nice Saturday, I finished up 10+ BI's for last week. It was a nice session as there wasn't any tough regulars on. After pushing everyone around for awhile, I started to hit hands when they deceided to play back. I actually won more big pots than I lost this session as well(7-5).

MiniOP: I am going on vacation next week, and I need to get 50-60k hnads in this week before Saturday. I basically need to play ~10k a day Mon-Thu.

So it seems I may be able to finally put the downswing behind me. I am pleased to present what may be my best ~20k hand stretch:



I feel as though I am running better, as my big hands are back to around where they used to be. I think that the increased winrate can be attributed to all the work I've done in the last 8 weeks to get better. I don't think I am gonna get 50k hands in this week though, but maybe 30k+. Hopefully I am going to be able keep this up, even if its just a 3.00 bb/100.

How close are u to supernova elite?

450k, so not even close... I didn't get enough hands in Jan/Feb. I should hit the 750k bonus. Are you close?

I admire you for being able to play so many hands. I can't even hit 8k hands in a month.

sup?

Originally Posted by Jager

450k, so not even close... I didn't get enough hands in Jan/Feb. I should hit the 750k bonus. Are you close?

I play 1-3 hours a day every day so no.

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

sup?

Vacation, just got back today.

Last night I played my 1st session(3500 hands) since I got back. All I have to say is WOW. After taking 11 days off from poker, then coming back, its like a whole new world at 200nl. I didn't play with a decent reg, and I sat at multiple 40+ vpip tables. It took awhile to get back in the groove and I finished up only +$13, which isn't too bad considering I was running like shit(41.56% for W$SD). I was simply amazed at the amount of bad players on what seemed like every table. Hopefully it stays that way and I can run a little better.

So after going through a couple little downers(9 and 8 BIs) the 1st week of the month, I ended up only down 3 BIs. I played good and ran decent in week 2. I ran at 6.11 for week 2, over only 10k hands. So now comes week 3... I would love to be able to run nicely for about 100k hands. This is just not gonna happen. I hit the wall on Monday and lost 4 BIs. I followed it on Tuesday dropping another 22. Thats right another 26 BI downswing. It was just horrible, AA, KK, QQ, AK all big losers. 2 pair hands were losing huge and my 3 of a kind hands were even, and only winning 50% of the time. I finally got it going later on in the day for a 8.5 BI comeback. I played 12k hands on Tuesday. I feel as I am playing well, my W$WSF is 42%. My problem again is big pots. I won a BI or more on 17 hands, however I lost a BI or more on 25 hands. It is real tough to show a profit being -1600 in the hole in pots you feel you can stack off in. So anyway I will continue to grind away...

Originally Posted by Jager

My problem again is big pots. I won a BI or more on 17 hands, however I lost a BI or more on 25 hands. It is real tough to show a profit being -1600 in the hole in pots you feel you can stack off in. So anyway I will continue to grind away...

You should post all of your big pot hands to get some feedback on whether you are stacking off in good situations. I would definitely look at all of them for you.

Most of these big pots are all super standard. There are only a couple marginal hands, like where I push a combo draw into a set. There was 4 under sets, and a couple top 2 v set, the usual shit.

From Tuesday evening until now I am up 4500. I am now down only 700 for the week. I have really only been running normal, still not what I would consider good but I am playing well and not getting crushed everytime the money goes in. I have a wedding to go to this weekend, so I hope I will have enough time to get positive this week.

Well after another vacation to Florida, I am back. I took a long look through my DB to compare my previous winning months to how I have played my last 100k hands. The results were not what I had expected.

For March - May(my 1st 3 months playing 200 full time)
277,000 Hands
VPIP: 21.95
PFR: 17.14
W$WSF: 39.52
WTSD: 25.52
W$SD: 53.55
Winrate: 2.09


My last ~100k hands
VPIP: 21.41
PFR: 17.95
W$WSF: 42.75
WTSD: 24.34
W$SD: 49.43
Winrate: 2.27

I am very disappointed in my pultry winrate, eventhough my key stat I look at is W$WSF. I have improved over 3% in this area, and I also am playing much better from the blinds. Combined I am winning back 0.08 BB/ hand more now than I was previously, or this seems to equal ~$4800 more for every 100k hands. In 6max we play 37% of the total hands from the blinds so any improvement is big. So with all my improved play, how do I have the same winrate?

WOW! This thread is absolutly sick!

Sorry Jager, I read as much as I could but it was really gross and very exstensive so skimmed somewhat...

I find it pretty unbelievable, from what I've grasped, that you've played over 500k hands and have only had one 20k hand period of >5ptBB/100? That's damn brutal, sorry but I do find it hard to belive its simply bad luck... though I dont think it's impossible.

Also you dont post your AFs, is this just because of pic width? Ppl that play vs you will obv have all your stats logged anyway so you should just post them as they may be somehwat off? Probably not if you're self aware of your own game in any way... How about your position stats, they may be more useful - Id like to see them posted.

Lastly I have a few questions:

• - How many 15bi+ downswings have you had, and over how many hands?
  - What's your longest b/e stretch?
  - What stakes did you start at?
  - Have you ever had any coaching?

Thanks, look forward to your replies.

- How many 15bi+ downswings have you had, and over how many hands?
- What's your longest b/e stretch?
- What stakes did you start at?
- Have you ever had any coaching?

I have had several 15+ downswings, at least 1 every 100k hands.

The longest b/e stretch came in between the 2 big downswings. It was a 45.5 BI downswing over 56.5k hands, then over the next 75k hands I won 3 BIs, and it all ended when over the next 25.5k hands I lost 24.5 BIs. Total 159k hands -65 BI's.

I started at 10nl full ring at party last Aug(06). By Sept I was playing 100nl FR. After the legislation I moved to stars, around mid Nov. I switched to 100nl 6 max. I moved up to 200nl full time in March.

I have never hired a coach.

Here are my last 100k+ hands. I have been running awful again over the last 20k hands or so, actually I feel like Ive been running bad this whole stretch.

Nice one. Stats look very standard, only thing I can see is maybe try and up your turn aggression to get over 2? This could mean value betting turn a bit thinner, or instead of checking through for pot control going for a b/f line more often at the turn?

I have alot of admiration for you sticking through all the varience, do you have any tips to keep as emotionaly stable as possible throughout the hard times?

Jager,

I only play at 25Nl but it seems to me you're too aggressive. You never limp, especially from ep. I believe this causes you to play too many big pots OOP. You might consider reading the new book by Ed MIller. (Can't remember title but something about playing Professional Poker.)

You also mention you feel that W$WSF is your most important stat. I've never seen anything on this, but I think you would find that players with a high won $at SD will have a greater BB/1oo rate than those with a high won$wSF. Why is this? Because a high W$WSF % will likely mean winning smaller pots with aggression by getting your opponent to fold and a high W$SD % will mean that you are winning bigger $ pots because they've had more betting. Obviouly a high % of both would be ideal but you might think about your W$SD rate. I believe a good percentage here is around 56-58.

I know this "advice " is somewhat unconventional but look up Cocco Bill's stats. He plays passively and is crushing the games he plays.

Sink- I really have no choice but to stay level headed as this has been my main income since March and most of it for the last year. I just continue to remind myself that the Bonus $$ will more than support me, ANY winnings are just a plus. I obviously still want to improve and move up.

Sci- If I could ever get my W$SD to 55+ I would be running like god. I have been losing more than my share of big pots lately, but I continue to win because of all the small pots I win with aggression not in spit of it.

I check this thread every once in a while. I chuckle when I read it. I laugh inside sometimes how you think you are so unlucky yet are the best player at 200nl.

Bad news for you is that I know someone who plays as many hands as you can not possibly "run bad" for that long. Stop being in denial and realise that you are a bad nitty regular. You can beat morons but you can't beat regulars that actually have a head and can play the game, not just be a nit and expect to get paid off.

I've played with you a lot. You do suck. I get excited when I sit with you because your hands are so transparent. No, Canuck is not my screen name so don't bother checking your ptracker.

I've played 200nl for a few years on stars and ftp. You are by no means playing good poker. So many players at 200nl are way better than you... it's not because you are unlucky. Here's my last 200k hands for you to ponder.

Just think... if you were actually good, you would of won twice as much money as you have won in the past 200k hands running at 2.19bb/100

Wow the infamous canuck. You must be just owning me then for several(3+) BI's if I am so bad. I also impressed with your ability to read my mind, since it is obvious I am not the best player at 200 nor do I think so, hence the purpose of this thread is for me to get better. Besides if you are really that good, then why do you hide who you are or are you just trying to brag?

2BB/100 isn't bad. I ran about 2.6 over 150k hands at 200NL and i consider myself a pretty good player.

And canuck, any player who is a 2BB/100 winner who goes through a 40+ buy in downswing is extremely unlucky. Also, your winrate will go down depending on how many tables you play. I play 8 at a time, so i play 200k hands in 4 months.

I don't think it's jager who thinks is too good, it's you.

Oh, and can you come back to the short-handed forum!? You haven't posted in a long time.

I play 9.3 tables at once on average. So just imagine if I played 1-2 at a time.

All I'm trying to say, is that <3ptbb/100 is definitely beatable yet I see tons of players that think they are good and can't attain it.

Instead of complaining about "running bad" -> get better.

Originally Posted by canuck

I play 9.3 tables at once on average. So just imagine if I played 1-2 at a time.

All I'm trying to say, is that <3ptbb/100 is definitely beatable yet I see tons of players that think they are good and can't attain it.

Instead of complaining about "running bad" -> get better.

your original comments were mean spirited and in no way constructive. why did you decide to post anyway?

Originally Posted by canuck

I play 9.3 tables at once on average. So just imagine if I played 1-2 at a time.

All I'm trying to say, is that <3ptbb/100 is definitely beatable yet I see tons of players that think they are good and can't attain it.

Instead of complaining about "running bad" -> get better.

behave yourself next time k?

Canuck,

while you have a valid point you said it in the worst way possible, and I think you'd admit that your intentions for that post was strictly flaming. AND if you claim otherwise, you can at least admit that you phrased that post in the worst way possible to help Jager out.

Jager,
I haven't played with you in awhile so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but tbh canuck may be right about you being a transparent nit. You were when I was at 200nl, and you very could be one now. You shouldn't just dismiss someone's opinion because they are an idiot.

If I break down my year so far into 2 parts, before the downswing and after the downswing, I can see how my game has improved. The best way to illustrate this is with these 3 stats, W$WSF, WTSD, W@SD. My W$WSF went from 39.52 to 42.75, or +3.23. My W@SD went from 53.55 to 49.43 or -4.12. This all while my WTSD and my winrate remained virtually the same. So then what does this tell me? That I am now winning many more small to medium pots with improved postflop play, but I am now running much worse when I feel its time to felt a hand.

Now can I say that I feel I am not running as good as before? Maybe when I run like that again over 350k hnads I will post a sick winrate. Either way I haven't posted in the SH forum or have been playing as much lately due to a couple vacations and I have been working on some stuff for my house. I also have a very good idea who canuck is, and if I'm right I really don't think too much of your play either.

2k hands today and all I can say is wow. I finished up a BI, but it was real ugly. These plus one other hand are the only hnads in which I lost $100 or more. Warning some of these are real nasty...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($140.45)
MP ($105.40)
Hero ($400.05)
SB ($198)
BB ($100)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. MP posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $2, MP (poster) checks, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10.

Flop: ($39) 2, 6, 3 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $26, UTG folds, MP calls $26.

Turn: ($91) 7 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $70, MP calls $67.40 (All-In).

River: ($225.80) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $225.81

Results in white below:
MP has Qc As (flush, queen high).
Hero has Jd Jh (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: MP wins $225.80. Hero wins $2.59.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($200)
MP ($108.60)
CO ($63)
Button ($60)
Hero ($395.85)
BB ($369.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
UTG raises to $7, MP calls $7, 1 fold, Button calls $7, Hero raises to $35, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP calls $28, Button folds.

Flop: ($86) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $75, MP calls $73.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($233.20) (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($233.20) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $233.20

Results in white below:
Hero has Qh Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
MP has 3s 4s (flush, queen high).
Outcome: MP wins $233.20. Hero wins $1.40.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (4 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

BB ($139.25)
Hero ($213.70)
Button ($463.75)
SB ($213.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $26, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($69) (2 players)
BB bets $36, Hero raises to $179.7, BB calls $69.25 (All-In).

River: ($279.50) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $279.50

Results in white below:
BB has 9d Ad (four of a kind, aces).
Hero has 5s 5d (full house, aces full of fives).
Outcome: BB wins $279.50. Hero wins $74.45.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

BB ($224.45)
UTG ($312.05)
Hero ($223)
CO ($200)
Button ($236.15)
SB ($208.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, Button raises to $20, 2 folds, Hero calls $12.

Flop: ($43) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($103) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($103) (2 players)
Hero bets $75, Button raises to $186.15, Hero calls $98 (All-In).

Final Pot: $449

Results in white below:
Hero has Jd Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
Button has Kd Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Button wins $462.15.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($269.80)
BB ($524.95)
UTG ($143.20)
Hero ($256.05)
Button ($181)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BB raises to $26, Hero calls $18.

Flop: ($53) , , (2 players)
BB bets $37, Hero raises to $230.05, BB calls $193.05.

Turn: ($513.10) (2 players)

River: ($513.10) (2 players)

Final Pot: $513.10

Results in white below:
BB has Qc Qh (full house, queens full of twos).
Hero has Th 9h (flush, ten high).
Outcome: BB wins $513.10.

on the second to last hand (J-J), i think you should c/r AI on the flop. As played the river is probably c/c not b/c.

hand w/ 5-5 is sickkkkkk

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

on the second to last hand (J-J), i think you should c/r AI on the flop. As played the river is probably c/c not b/c.

I agree with this and it is my standard play here, I can't really say why I didn't do it.