12 steppin' my way to being healed!

[will641]

Hallelujah everyone! i am going to begin my healing process with AA tomorrow, and rid myself of this grueling disease. when i get out of that 3 hour meeting tomorrow, i assure you i will be a different man, and have the good lord flowing throughout me. i get to enjoy 60 hours over 6 weeks of virtually FREE healing. they only make me pay about $150, and the rest is subsidized through your tax dollars! Hallelujah!

[bikes]

I hate our rehab system for everything including drugs, alcohol and mental disorders. What a fkn joke.

I don't mean any of this as a personal attack on you will =)

[will641]

I hate our rehab system for everything including drugs, alcohol and mental disorders. What a fkn joke.

I don't mean any of this as a personal attack on you will =)

oh no no bbickes, no offense. you see, i was lucky enough for the courts to tell me that i had a problem. i didnt even fuckin know it! thats how fucking cool and intune the government is with us. they know whats best for us! isn't that fucking awesome that we have a government that knows whats best for us?!

[BankItDrew]

You sound like one pissed of alcoholic.

[swiggidy]

DUI dodging?

[Deanglow]

I have heard from many sources that most people in AA need it. You probably aren't one of them though GL

[will641]

I have heard from many sources that most people in AA need it. You probably aren't one of them though GL

the thing is, they put them under the illusion that it was god that saved them, and that they were powerless to it, when it fact they were powerful.

[JKDS]

I have heard from many sources that most people in AA need it. You probably aren't one of them though GL

the thing is, they put them under the illusion that it was god that saved them, and that they were powerless to it, when it fact they were powerful.

u serious? thought that was just South Park exaggerating. Gonna have to watch that episode again...

[jyms]

Hallelujah everyone! i am going to begin my healing process with AA tomorrow, and rid myself of this grueling disease. when i get out of that 3 hour meeting tomorrow, i assure you i will be a different man, and have the good lord flowing throughout me. i get to enjoy 60 hours over 6 weeks of virtually FREE healing. they only make me pay about $150, and the rest is subsidized through your tax dollars! Hallelujah!

Lol at this. I had an uncle that was a complete douche drunk. He "found" AA through a friend. It came to a point in his sobriety that he thought all his family and friends could not stand him "bettering himself". Truth was, they couldn't stand his preaching and dissecting everything they did like it was against god.

[Galapogos]

Hallelujah everyone! i am going to begin my healing process with AA tomorrow, and rid myself of this grueling disease.

Sounds to me like your only "disease" is your lack of confidence in your drinking.

[drmcboy]

It's tough because AA really does help a lot of people, and it really does get cult-y. I think the biggest problem is that once addicts hit bottom, they decide they were miserable because of the drug(s), then they get sober and it turns out life is still a pretty fuckin rough go. So they only hang out around other sober 12 step people and it gets harder and harder for a lot of them to relate to 'normal' people. Remember how annoying you were when you first learned all the rules about driving? ZOMG mom you didn't signal changing lanes! Anyone who uses anything tends to get labeled an addict. Until I was 17 I legitimately thought anyone who drank (I mean a drop) was a clueless moron headed for total disaster.

I think one of the unspoken 12 steps problems is addiction to 12 step meetings, you'll see people who have an NA meeting, two AA meetings, SA, and then they do group therapy and individual sessions. Doing nothing but dealing with your problems becomes just another way to not deal with your problems.

Re the god thing, if it's God I would see if you can find different meanings/treatment center. It should be lower case g, higher power type talk.

I'm more or less with you on the powerless thing. The idea is sound - lose the guilt, get over the idea that wanting a drink/smoke/screw/dice roll will go away and start livin. In practice, it tends to translate to "my parents fucked me over, not my fault."

This is my stock 12 step story:

We moved when I was in 8th grade. My parents had a bunch of their 12 step friends over to help. As we're moving, there is an occasionally EPIC bad smell in the house. Finally one of the guys stops and says "My wife shared with me this morning that I have gas. I am owning it".

This is classic 12 step thinking, because shame is a no no. Which is great when you're trying to get over 20 years of being a drunk and screwing up people's lives. But it isn't so great when you could just GO FART OUTSIDE you STINKY GOOF.



Note, the South Park episode was in no way an exaggeration IIRC although it's been long enough I don't remember specifics about it, just that it was like someone was speaking from my soul.

[will641]

stats from penn and teller's Bullshit! episode on 12 step programs:

1) % of people that still go to AA after 12 months = 5%. that is basically the success rate.

2) % of people that quit drinking without AA = 5%.

Now, it is equal in number value, but when you take into account all the silly bullshit they make you do, it is surely -EV. i dont denounce non 12 step programs for drinking btw.

Also FWIW, i think that south park is incredibly on point on most, if not all, issues. they just dont get much credit for it because its a comedic show.

[will641]

not to mention that their classification of alcoholism as a disease is really insulting to those out there with real diseases like cancer, parkinsons, etc. i mean, drinking is a choice, so therefore if you are an alcoholic you chose it. the people with cancer did not choose it.

[drmcboy]

Without agreeing or disagreeing with the idea, their whole point is it isn't a choice. I understand where you're coming from - it's like asking someone to imagine being the opposite sex. Maybe a better way to say it is that it is a choice, but not between drinking and not drinking. Rather it's being miserable or being happy, which is a choice that is really hard to get 'right'.

[nutsinho]

2 years ago my mom sent me to GA. now she is a very proud mommy.

[drmcboy]

PS if 5% is the number, which I would believe although I think it's dumb to even try and collect such a stat, my guess is people who go on their own make up 99% of the 5%. I have always thought community service made more sense than forcing people who don't want to quit into rehab.

[spoonitnow]

2 years ago my mom sent me to GA. now she is a very proud mommy.

Was there a thread on this? I seem to vaguely remember something like this around that same time frame, not sure if it was you though.

[nutsinho]

I don't think so. It was the most creepy cultlike thing i've ever experienced and I never said a word in any of the meetings and eventually evoked rage in the group leader through my silence at which point I said fuck you I'm done with this nonsense. My mom had said I wouldn't be allowed to stay at home unless I went to these meetings but after I refused to sit in the room anymore after the guy's ridiculous outburst there wasn't much she could do. Only over the past couple of weeks have my parents even developed any concept whatsoever of what poker even is and stopped referring to it exclusively as "gambling" or "betting".

[Jack Sawyer]

fight club, anyone?

I don't think so. It was the most creepy cultlike thing i've ever experienced and I never said a word in any of the meetings and eventually evoked rage in the group leader through my silence at which point I said fuck you I'm done with this nonsense. My mom had said I wouldn't be allowed to stay at home unless I went to these meetings but after I refused to sit in the room anymore after the guy's ridiculous outburst there wasn't much she could do. Only over the past couple of weeks have my parents even developed any concept whatsoever of what poker even is and stopped referring to it exclusively as "gambling" or "betting".

This shit makes me feel so grateful that my parents fully support me playing poker, so I don't have to own a WSOP event to prove myself right

[will641]

I don't think so. It was the most creepy cultlike thing i've ever experienced and I never said a word in any of the meetings and eventually evoked rage in the group leader through my silence at which point I said fuck you I'm done with this nonsense. My mom had said I wouldn't be allowed to stay at home unless I went to these meetings but after I refused to sit in the room anymore after the guy's ridiculous outburst there wasn't much she could do. Only over the past couple of weeks have my parents even developed any concept whatsoever of what poker even is and stopped referring to it exclusively as "gambling" or "betting".

only after you said look ma! i just made over 500k!

[zook]

Addiction is a disease. And AA, while fucked up in some ways, is the best treatment option available for most people. Sorry you're stuck there though Will, since it sounds like you're not an alcoholic.

[a500lbgorilla]

Addiction is a disease. And AA, while fucked up in some ways, is the best treatment option available for most people. Sorry you're stuck there though Will, since it sounds like you're not an alcoholic.

Buh? A disease? How?

[zook]

The brain is an organ like the heart or liver. The brain changes physically and chemically as you become addicted. These changes cause harmful behaviors and are evidence of a "disease state" (like a black lung or hardened artery). Many of these changes are irreversible. People argue that you choose to become an addict but you don't choose to get heart disease, but that's false. No one wants to be an addict, but their genetics and lifestyle choices lead them to that state. It's exactly the same with heart disease. Some combination of genetics, diet and exercise determines your risk.

[will641]

that shit sucked so bad.

[a500lbgorilla]

The brain is an organ like the heart or liver. The brain changes physically and chemically as you become addicted. These changes cause harmful behaviors and are evidence of a "disease state" (like a black lung or hardened artery). Many of these changes are irreversible. People argue that you choose to become an addict but you don't choose to get heart disease, but that's false. No one wants to be an addict, but their genetics and lifestyle choices lead them to that state. It's exactly the same with heart disease. Some combination of genetics, diet and exercise determines your risk.

Without making the most personal and exposing post ever, I will tell you that I know what addiction is and I know that anyone that calls it a disease is bullshitting you. If you really and truly want the whole story, you can pm me and i'll tell you everything. Anyone that wants to know privately may pm me.

[wufwugy]

The brain is an organ like the heart or liver. The brain changes physically and chemically as you become addicted. These changes cause harmful behaviors and are evidence of a "disease state" (like a black lung or hardened artery). Many of these changes are irreversible. People argue that you choose to become an addict but you don't choose to get heart disease, but that's false. No one wants to be an addict, but their genetics and lifestyle choices lead them to that state. It's exactly the same with heart disease. Some combination of genetics, diet and exercise determines your risk.

Without making the most personal and exposing post ever, I will tell you that I know what addiction is and I know that anyone that calls it a disease is bullshitting you. If you really and truly want the whole story, you can pm me and i'll tell you everything. Anyone that wants to know privately may pm me.

i tend to agree with this, but i wiki'd it. wiki agrees with zook.

now wiki doesnt know all, but it knows most. im not interested enough to investigate further.

[JKDS]

restlessleg syndrome is a disease too

[Aces]

The brain is an organ like the heart or liver. The brain changes physically and chemically as you become addicted. These changes cause harmful behaviors and are evidence of a "disease state" (like a black lung or hardened artery). Many of these changes are irreversible. People argue that you choose to become an addict but you don't choose to get heart disease, but that's false. No one wants to be an addict, but their genetics and lifestyle choices lead them to that state. It's exactly the same with heart disease. Some combination of genetics, diet and exercise determines your risk.

Without making the most personal and exposing post ever, I will tell you that I know what addiction is and I know that anyone that calls it a disease is bullshitting you. If you really and truly want the whole story, you can pm me and i'll tell you everything. Anyone that wants to know privately may pm me.

Have to agree with Zook. I wouldn't say I"ve personally been an addict but it definitely runs through my family, and I've been to more than a few 12 step meetings(as a supporter) in the process as well as family group/education meeting for other non-AA treatment facilities. Addiction most definitely is a disease and I think it becomes easier to overcome once you treat it as such.

As to all the misinformation here regarding AA....it may not be for everyone, but it does work pretty damn well. Most of the "religous" references I"ve seen are not to God as such but to a higher power. I'm sure there are some meetings that are better or worse in this regard, but if you're an addict you might try a few different meetings before denouncing the entire program. A very close relative went through a half dozen different treatment programs and finally this one worked. It also provides a continuing support group with having a sponser and meetings that you can find all over the country. I have no doubt they would be dead or in jail if not for this program.

[vaks]

lol i had a friend in rehab... they told him that he was addicted to everything, and always would be and if he were to ever try alcohol or anything again he would relapse on coke+heroin+what the hell ever else

[Aces]

lol i had a friend in rehab... they told him that he was addicted to everything, and always would be and if he were to ever try alcohol or anything again he would relapse on coke+heroin+what the hell ever else

That's pretty much true though I doubt that's how it was phrased...if you're addicted to one drug it's highly likely you would become addicted to another one. Pretty common sense really.

[will641]

if addiction is a disease, then why is it the only disease where the only cure is through spirituality?

[zook]

if addiction is a disease, then why is it the only disease where the only cure is through spirituality?

Because the brain is our most complicated organ and we understand the least about how to affect it chemically. That being said, the most effective treatment for heroin addiction is methadone, not 12-step programs. (But methadone's really just a replacement that doesn't fuck you up as much.) And there are some drug treatments for nicotine and alcohol addictions, they just aren't fantastic yet. But we're working on it...

[will641]

if addiction is a disease, then why is it the only disease where the only cure is through spirituality?

Because the brain is our most complicated organ and we understand the least about how to affect it chemically. That being said, the most effective treatment for heroin addiction is methadone, not 12-step programs. (But methadone's really just a replacement that doesn't fuck you up as much.) And there are some drug treatments for nicotine and alcohol addictions, they just aren't fantastic yet. But we're working on it...

okay, but it is their contention that this is the ONLY way to free yourself. they actually protest the drugs that help reduce alcoholism.

[Monty3038]

restlessleg syndrome is a disease too

ALright... now you've done it... us RLS people are pissed.

[zook]

okay, but it is their contention that this is the ONLY way to free yourself. they actually protest the drugs that help reduce alcoholism.

I didn't know that. That's stupid.

[drmcboy]

I can't speak for alcoholism drugs but nicotine drugs fail because the problem with tobacco isn't the chemical addiction (which is real but mild) but the ways your mind convinces you to satisfy that addiction. Doing the patch or whatever just reinforces the idea that you can't cope without smokes. Call it a mental illness rather than a physical one if that works better for you

[will641]

fwiw, i quit smoking a little over a year ago, and i used a really effective method. JUST STOP FUCKING SMOKING. i was certainly addicted, and still am to some degree.

[drmcboy]

yes - that's your mind, unless you are still sneaking smokes physical addiction is gone in less than 2 months.

[d0zer]

alcoholism is a disease because free will is an illusion

[will641]

so i made some reference that i play poker in AA, and this guy invited me to an illegal house game where they play anywhere from $20- $1k buy in. i asked what the blinds were and he said $1/$2 but was unclear whether it was like uncapped or whatever. they take a rake, making it illegal. being that im on probation, and i dont know this guy at all, this surely must be -EV right?

[bigspenda73]

If it violates your probation I would say it's -EV

[will641]

well obv im not allowed to break the law, so....

im more concerned that if i take a big pot off a fish he wont pay or whatever.

[bigspenda73]

come to Houston and play in Farha's rooms!!

[EzDuzIt]

werent you the one who had his BR stolen too? you run bad in life.

[wufwugy]

yea drinking and driving is def running bad

[will641]

A) i didnt drive drunk wufwugy . i was heavily intoxicated with a friend who was driving "drunk", even though he had like 4 drinks all night. i wouldnt consider that drunk, and i think the .08 law is kind of ridiculous.

B) yes ez, i do run bad in life. ive known this and realized that my life will probably not ever be good. it will be either okay, or marginally bad, because if something good eventually does happen, in a short period of time i will end up worse than i started. perfect example of this is when i got my account hacked. i kind of have the mentality of a george costanza. its sad.

[wufwugy]

A) i didnt drive drunk wufwugy . i was heavily intoxicated with a friend who was driving "drunk", even though he had like 4 drinks all night. i wouldnt consider that drunk, and i think the .08 law is kind of ridiculous.

well if he wasn't drunk then glad to hear it. i must profess that i despise drunk drivers. this is a sorta predicament for me since ive known a number of people i really like who drunk drive.