9/11 FRAUD & CONSPIRACY

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[FyrFytr998]

All I know is that I lost a lot of fellow firefighters that day. And I'm saddened by how trendy patriotism has become. And that's the only truth I know about 9/11.

[AllinLife]

check out

http://pixla.px.cz/pentagon.swf

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[mpqz]

"I'm just a believer that what we see on CNN , ABC, CBS and ABC is the 'whitewashed' version which the government tries to slide by the masses of the ignorant American public."

To reply to that, I highly recommend you watch the documentary called "Outfoxed".

I would post a link to the torrent, but that's probably against the rules.

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[DaNutsInYoEye]

Well I am not one to perpetrate paranoia

Haha... I ask you to consider the source folks...


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...341&highlight=

I post on several large Poker message forums (two plus
two, cardplayer.com, FTR etc) and I am going to do everything in my power to insure that everybody knows that your 'random' dealing is exactly the opposite. I'll be committing MANY hours to tell as many people
in the online poker community that your site favors the weaker inexperienced 'chasers'.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...402&highlight=

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[Hotel_Detect]

Hey,... this is my first post, and I must say I do not understand what this has to do with poker. Additionally, this is some of the most conspiratorial garbage I've ever read. No offense to the poster, I know Rip is a good contributor to these forums (I have read them for a while), but I feel he has been mislead by this material. I have followed this topic for the last 3 years in depth, and I have read the report of the 911 commission, a non-partisan oversight committee, and I can say without a doubt that the conspiracies cited here are just simply inane. I really don't think this is worth further discussion, but just some quick thoughts about the alleged discrepancies the poster mentions:

1) I suppose that the flight that "supposedly" crashed into the pentagon was blown up in midair or flown to a secret government base and the passengers were executed. So that the government could simply set off a bomb in the pentagon to justice a future war? .. is this really the argument being made here? What possible sense does this make?

2) The cell phones that the passengers called on were not cell phones at all, but rather the air phones, that work at all altitudes, this is clearly disclosed in the 911 committee's research. If your sources weren't so dramatically one-sided this would be obvious.

3) The notion that the government would set up this entire disaster in order for a few people to profit, and to launch a preemptive war would be laughable if it were not so offensive. I am no fan of politicians, and certainly not of big government, but the damage caused to the US as a result of these attacks and the US economy so far outweigh the benefits cited, that it is absolutely ridiculous. Id be more apt to believe that the Bush adm planned on attacking Iraq no matter what.

4) The material on that site is not impressive in the least, wow the pentagon had planned for a potential scenario like 911 in advance?.,. thats really surprising, since they plan for nearly everything.. right now they have continency plans for massive global warming, does this mean that if it happens it will be the result of the US government and their maniacal weather changing machine?

5) People shorting stocks and investing in security and rebuilding stocks means absolutely nothing, it certainly does not prove a conspiracy. Any intelligent observer could see that a pattern emerged in the 90's and that a large scale terrorist attack was likely if not inevitable. Do not forget that Al Quaeda attacked US interests many times prior, was Clinton overseeing these attacks on our embassies and the USS Cole?.. Apparently he must have been since its such a vast conspiracy.

Actually, im just going to stop here, b/c just about everything on these sites is garbage. I would expect an intelligent person to approach this material with some skepticism. Rip, didn't you notice that the site you were "researching" on is obviously leftist propaganda.. or do you believe all the other anti-bush, anti-US theories on there as well. "the Bush crime family", "the anthrax scam", "CIA Nazis".. I mean maybe it is just hard for me to take this site seriously, while you bash the "mainstream" media like CNN which you somehow envision as in the pocket of the government.

I am telling you, sites like that are going to rot your brain and make you paranoid, there is so much oversight this day in age, that nothing they are describing is likely, maybe 1 out of 25 theories.

[krazyace5]

I agree with Hotel_Detect, 100%

[Xianti]

I do not understand what this has to do with poker.

Just FYI, this FTR Community forum is our "lounge" where you can discuss anything and everything NOT related to poker.

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[michael1123]

And the damage to the building itself was not consistent with the proportion of a 767. The hole prior to the collapse of the outer ring was barely 30 feet wide. A Boeing 767 is 125 feet wide.

Maybe it was a UFO that crashed into the Pentagon.

[krazyace5]

I also read recently some propaganda about how it was really the US military that beheaded nick berg. sad stuff really.

[7ape]

Half the problem with the analysis of US politics since 9/11 is the seemingly unbreachable rift between people of equal intellect but opposing views. Hotel_Detect makes some very good arguments, but all the arguments I've heard, for or against, ANY issue resulting from the WTC attack (the attack itself, the subsequent war, etc) inevitably refer to evidence that can be found in a number of locations in differing forms.

The guy who believes the "company line" will inevitably refute all evidence opposing their argument out of hand, as it is non-officially sanctioned and therefore "subversive" and "conspiracy"-based, a term which in itself is laden with pejorative connotations - if I posit that JFK was not killed by a lone assassin by the name of Oswald, I am a "conspiracy theorist", and therefore a "fruitcake" "crackpot" or whatever.

Equally, the "subversives" who go and dig around - not just in "leftie propagandist" sites - will criticise their opponents for failing to open their eyes and realise just how much they are being sold lie after lie after lie, most noticably by the mainstream media. And so the message, and the argument, gets lost in the tumult, neither side prepared to even acknowledge, much less actually concede any valid, fact-based, substantiated point by the other.

I think this, more than anything else, is what's blocking any kind of accord on the subject, it's turned into a "them and us" debate on both sides, each side utterly lacking in credibility for the other, due to the nature of their argument.

In support of my view (which regular posters will know all too well), I have to make the following observation.

Firstly, the key point of Rippy's post (as I read it, at least) was the media whitewash surrounding 911. Yes, you can look at it from a number of angles, but the ONLY one CONSITENTLY presented in a mainstream forum is the government-approved line. Anyone presenting an alternative view, no matter how articulate or well-researched, is shouted down as a conspiracist, or labelled as unpatriotic, or whatever. Speaking as someone from outside the US, I find it (a) sickening, (b) indescribably hypocritical for a country "built" on democracy and freedom of speech and (c) extremely scary, particularly given Blair's preference for showing the rest of the world that the UK are basically America's lapdog, which puts us right in the firing line for the retribution that will doubtless be returned on the Allies for their actions in the Muslim world since the WTC disaster.

Instead of discounting alternate viewpoints out of hand - particularly based on the premise that they are gleaned from "propagandist" sources - perhaps it would be better to examine ones' own sources more closely, and realise that whilst the "conspiracist" sites contain a lot of unsubstantiated opinion (which is a shame, as it usually presented alongside very easily proven facts, but the entire message ends up discredited), the officially-sanctioned stories are also contradictory, incomplete, and often based on highly specious reasoning.

Just to take one point from Hotel_Detect's post, which soundly rebutted the WHOLE of Rippy's PoV out-of-hand due to the "bias" of the source...

I have followed this topic for the last 3 years in depth, and I have read the report of the 911 commission, a non-partisan oversight committee

Here's the skinny on the 911 commision and it's "non-partisan" nature. Remember, this is the "independent" body that produced the only officially-sanctioned report on the WTC attack.

Thomas Kean:
Director and shareholder of Amerada Hess, which is involved in the Hess-Delta joint venture with Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia, involved in the planning for a trans-Afghan oil pipeline just prior to September 11th.

Lee Hamilton:
Was the chief "fact-finder" and chair of the October Surprise and Iran-Contra committees. Failed to find any wrongdoing by top officials in either investigation, and was "satisfied" with the performance of Oliver North. Held a press conference before the investigation had even begun to clear Bush's name.

Philip Zelikow:
Has close ties to Condoleezza Rice (having co-written a book with her in 1995) and was on the Bush administration's transition team for the NSC, as well as having been a member of Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. Had advised the incoming Bush administration on terror-related intelligence matters and had several discussions about Bin Laden and Al Qaeda in 2000-2001 with Richard Clarke.

Slade Gorton:
Two days after the WTC attacks, told a public television audience that there was "nothing that government intelligence officials could have done" to thwart the attack.

... and, lest we forget, original member of the 911 Comission, former Georgia Senator Max Cleland, who called the commission "a sham" and resigned from it before the investigation was complete.

... so much for the "unbiased" and "non-propagandist" source for your arguments, Hotel_Detect...

The list goes on, but this has taken me long enough already. The point is, that in the current political cliamte, with particular regard to the open and unabashed bias of the mainstream US media, you HAVE to examine the source on EVERY piece of information you uncover. It does no-one ANY good to dismiss every possible argument as being "propagandist" purely because it differs from the propaganda you yourself have been exposed to, be it "officially-sanctioned" propaganda, or "internet crackpot" propaganda.

[Hotel_Detect]

I really don't want to devote more time to this, but just wanted to mention a few things. I was not ascribing or taking at face value the 911 report, I was simply saying, that i DO lend more credence to CNN, BBC, 911 Commission, etc than I do to a website claiming that Nazis run the CIA and that the Bush adm. is trying to sell anti-psychotic drugs to americans. To put these on a level playing field is foolhardy, .. just b/c the other sources are biased does not necessarily legitimize the opposite point of view. Do you see what I am saying here? .. What is more likely, that a rogue group of Islamic extremists got box cutter onto a plan and hijacked it, or that the US government set up a ridiculously complex plot in order to??? (well we aren't sure exactly). Start a preemptive war? Cause panic? Short sell stocks? I mean these are just highly unlikely goals, and thats why i have a problem with giving them the time of day. Also, the conspiracy theorists try to have it every which way, they do not form a coherent conspiracy, but rather string together a chain of "possible" theories. For example, they claim that the events of 911 were sabotage by the US government, yet they claim the US probably shot down flight 93 (rather than it being taken over by the passengers). etc etc. You cannot have this both ways, either they were purposefully using jets as weapons to wreak havoc on their own populace, or they were attempting to save urban populations by shooting down the aircraft over a vacant field. I would have no problem believing the latter, or even a coverup of the latter, but the former? Common sense dictates that this is HIGHLY unlikely. Conspiracy theorists often cannot see the forrest for the trees, because if they do then their case falls apart. They microanalyze to the point of reinvention... step back for a second, put your imagination aside, and ask yourself, what situation is trully more likely?.. Can you honestly say that these conspiracies are MORE likely than the basic version of events "sold" by the mainstream media? Sure certain things were spun, to make this person or that person or this administration or that administration look better, but was the overall set of events so vastly conspiratorial? I guess I just do not understand how a clear-thinking person can answer affirmitively.

[Flatbush]

The current mainstream media is no longer delivering "news". It's mostly government spoon fed bullshit....that's why we have thousands and thousands of ignorant teenagers running around talking about "regime change" and talking about how we saved the poor people of Iraq....despite the fact that every reason we were told for invading was a BLATANT lie.

During the first 6 months of the I raqi war, 91% of Amercians got there news about the war from ABC, CBS, NBC......92% of news stoies on these events came diectly from thw white house press corp.

No dead US soldiers shown.

Hundreds of missing and dead iraqi prisoners. No explanation.

Our governmwent is no longer, if it ever was, trustworthy. If you want to believe what you see on Fox and CNN, feel free, just do not pretend these stations have a monopoly on truth, because that again, would be a BLATANT lie.

I live in NY. 9-11 sucked. Everything about it sucked. I do not believe we know what really happened, and I do not think we ever will. I definitely DO NOT believe anyone involved with our current administration.

And ummm, about Oswald, I'm pretty sure that they never did actually confirm/prove he acted alone.....

[Hotel_Detect]

I love how people claim to have risen above the shroud covering the rest of us by the "elite" media, by distrusting everything. Its simply a pop. culture phenomenon, perpetuated by college kids. J-Lo (or whoever) told them to hate Bush, this has carried over into doubting the media and everything else for that matter, ala Vietnam and the hippies. In my opinion, if you read the NY Times, Washington Times/Post, watch CNN, MSNBC or even Fox, you are getting a fairly diverse and ultimately balanced portrayal of events. I do not buy into these vast conspiracies about the media, there is just too much diversity of opinions within each publication or broadcast for it to be true. Once again, Gore lost in 2000, get over it, don't let your fanatical hatred of Bush cloud everything you read and observe. Just b/c you dont trust the Bush admin, does not mean they have ultimate control over the array of news sources, or over the other half of government. The amount of paranoia is amazing, seems to perpetuate amongst the college kids and partisans. You might want to try some level headed thinking instead of being ruled by passion.

[Toasty]

If you want to check out a real Conspiracy that has been going on for centurys...

just a touch of it.

Why does the US dollar have secret society symbol on it ? here

do a google search for the Illuminati ...

[Flatbush]

" In my opinion, if you read the NY Times, Washington Times/Post, watch CNN, MSNBC or even Fox, you are getting a fairly diverse and ultimately balanced portrayal of events."

--- You are kidding yourself. 100%, absolutely. Diverse? Do you know what "diverse" means? I'm suprised I read any further after reading this seriously preposterous and laughably inaccurate statement.

"You might want to try some level headed thinking instead of being ruled by passion"

--- You might try following your own advice. Also, consider using paragraphs......

--- Your little rant indicates where you come from. Don't presume to know my beliefs because I do not believe FOX news is accurate. I did not vote for Gore. I am not a registered Democrat.

--- Seriously, find a way to break the monotony of your writing. I can't read more than about three fingers worth without getting sea sick in the mumbo jumbo.

[FyrFytr998]

Again, all I know as a fact is that a lot of people died at the hands of terrorists. All I know is that people just as quickly forget as soon as they're reminded of what happened. All I know is that we are now in a situation that has only one recourse for better or worse.

I don't mind what people think or believe about the events surrounding 9/11. The "real" truth I don't think will ever be known or told.

[Humphrind]

" In my opinion, if you read the NY Times, Washington Times/Post, watch CNN, MSNBC or even Fox, you are getting a fairly diverse and ultimately balanced portrayal of events."

If you want, you can use the quote option. When you are quoting someone else, just highlight what you want and click on the "quote" button when typing out the post to have their phrase quoted in your post.

Also, on every post you can click on the top right of the post the little "quote" button and it will quote the entire text, just delete what doesn't matter and the rest will be displayed like your quote is displayed above.

Also, consider using paragraphs

Seriously, find a way to break the monotony of your writing. I can't read more than about three fingers worth without getting sea sick in the mumbo jumbo.

Let him tell his opinion, you can tell yours. But when you slander his writing style as your defense, that is hitting below the belt. In a live debate, you won't say, "My theory is better because you said 'Umm' too much."

[johnnyawe]

Hotel Detect, you are wrong about two things. All of the accounts we've heard about 9/11 passengers calls are that they used both airfones and personal cell phones.

As far as shorting of stocks, I assume we are talking about the large number of put options purchased for airline stocks in the days leading up to 9/11? As Rippy and the other stock traders here must already know, a put option has an expiriation date. If the stock doesn't tank within a number of days or months (it varies depending on the style of option), then the option becomes worthless. In light of this information, your statement "Any intelligent observer could see that a pattern emerged in the 90's and that a large scale terrorist attack was likely if not inevitable" makes no sense as an attempt to explain away the put options.

The put option story was reported on by the San Francisco Chronicle and other reputable mainstream media sources.

[7ape]

I agree with Humphrind's suggestion that we shouldn't use ad hominem arguments here, but equally, I can understand Flatbush's reaction to statements like:

You might want to try some level headed thinking instead of being ruled by passion

(an entirely ad hominem argument based on the premise that the person who disagrees with me must clearly not be thinking straight, or he'd see the pure and perfect truth as I do - very patronising), and

J-Lo (or whoever) told them to hate Bush

... an equally ad himinem argument, citing (with absolutely no evidence whatsoever) that one's opponent is espousing second-hand opinion they heard elsewhere rather than their own, substantiated take on things. Seriously H_D, are you really that egomanical? I'm a 29-year old law graduate with a deep and abiding interest in politics, not a 13-year old Avril Lavigne fan who thinks and does whatever MTV tells him to. If I were as conceited as that, I could just as easily turn around and say "you've just been BRAINWASHED to believe the LIES by the MAINSTREAM MEDIA", but as I am neither a sensationalist or a conspiracist, I see no gain in this kind of pejorative, unsubstantiated baiting of one's opposition (the same tactic that the Bush adminsitration are making such great use of atm...)

this has carried over into doubting the media

No, I don't doubt the media because I am slave to "pop culture", I doubt the media because there are very clear links between the media, big business and politics which make it utterly impossible for us to be presented with something that can be holistically regarded as "the truth" and therefore we are - as INDIVIDUALS - required to use our own perception and do our own research. Just because MY findings do not co-incide to the letter with YOURS does not mean that I am WRONG and you are RIGHT. Please do not condescend to people on this board any more, it's a really offensive attitude to take.

Also, the conspiracy theorists try to have it every which way, they do not form a coherent conspiracy, but rather string together a chain of "possible" theories

... as it happens, I agree with this, in fact I cited it in my original post as the main reason that self-appointed "clear-thinking" people such as yourself see every argument as hogwash, because too many 'subversives' try and push forth all manner of imaginative ideas as being equally valid, when many of them lack the substance and credibility of others - therefore, they ALL end up derided.

I was not ascribing or taking at face value the 911 report, I was simply saying, that i DO lend more credence to CNN, BBC, 911 Commission, etc than I do to a website claiming that Nazis run the CIA and that the Bush adm. is trying to sell anti-psychotic drugs to americans. To put these on a level playing field is foolhardy, .. just b/c the other sources are biased does not necessarily legitimize the opposite point of view. Do you see what I am saying here?

I was not suggesting that sites about little green men and the CIA and so on are as credible as CNN etc, but rather that in the current political climate, it is impossible to ascribe too much credibility to ANY information source. No, I'm not a rabid paranoiac, I am just a "clear thinking" individual who has seen more than enough to prove the point. Whilst some of the sites linked to in the original post were very far-fetched, there is a wealth of far better supported evidence that leads one to the same, or similar, conclusions. If credibility and substantiation is genuinely your biggest issue (it is mine, I just don't take such a high-handed attitude about it), try cutting thru all the web-based conspiracy bullsh!t and refer to some plausible political texts, like Chomsky ferinstance... although I'm guessing you won't, because that would require you to acknowledge someone else's intelligence and tenacity for the truth, in spite of the fact that their opinion differs from your own, right?

Play nice, or don't play at all.

[phylos]

The nice thing about this thread, is that there is a debate. Something sadly lacking on UK and US TV news these days. Politicians are now just allowed to make statements without any comeback or tough questioning. When Cheney said the other day that if Kerry was elected it would be inviting another terrorist attack there should have been outrage - but it was just reported on and here's Carrie with the sport.
An Irish journalist asked Mr Bush some tough questions when he was over there in June. He fumbled for some answers before being led away by his advisers. Who then cancelled Bush's TV appearance as 'punishment for the ambush'.
The search for truth should be inquisitorial, not just a knee jerk response.
If there was a debate, a genuine open dabate - if the Bush administration answered some hard questions and if the conspiracy theorists took a step back and did some listening then maybe we could all make some progress.
But some questions i would like Bush's administration to answer would include
Why no air defence? Is the US airforce so short of planes since the end of the cold war that 4 hijacked airliners was too much of a stretch?
Why was Bush not bundled out of the elementary school after the second plane hit? America was under attack, yet the commander in chief reads a book about goats for another 7 minutes. Even the most diehard Republicans must consider this suspicious?
Where are the flight recorders?
How did they come up with the 19 names and photos so quickly? 8 of the 19 have since turned up alive. Isn't this a story?
Why were members of bin Laden's family flown out of the US on 9/12 and 9/13?
Why did the SEC start and then bury their investigation into the short selling? Was Officer Barbrady invloved? Nothing to see here, nothing at all, move along.
Why did the WTC get insurance against terrorist attacks for the first time only 3 months before 9/11?
Why did Condi Rice tell her mate, San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, not to fly to NY on 9/11.
There are many websites with many more questions. Alone, none of them make a conspiracy theory. But added together, especially when mixed with a government that do not seem to be really open and a compliant media that do not want to ask questions it is only natural that people start shouting 'conspiracy'.

[johnnyawe]

Why did Condi Rice tell her mate, San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, not to fly to NY on 9/11.

WHAT?!?!?

Wow, I knew that Willie Brown received a warning and cancelled his flight plans, but I had no idea there was speculation that it came from Condeleeza Rice. I didn't even know they were friends. I'll have to look into that.

[phylos]

This'll get you started..

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Bush_knew2.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...2/MN229389.DTL

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1000

[dpcjsr]

I went to college with some of these politicians. I assure you that there is absolutely nothing they would not do if it brought them power and money. For them it is a big game. There are too many unanswered questions about 911, and they will never be answered. Is it time to shoot the bastards yet? Too late...

Nice to raze a bit of rabble now and then. Thanks Rip.

[MannerBoy]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194

www.911WasAnInsideJob.com

www.911IsAlie.com

www.ReOpen911.rg

to all my american poker friends. Think before u vote for Bush again. (plz)

[Miffed22001]

Life is rigged!
I have to say my final semester for my degree is on crime and terrorism and its politics so while i'm hard pushed to beleive you can present any evidence that would stand up to hard scrutiny, in a few weeks i may have changed my thoughts.
Its an interesting view point that somewhere somebody/somebodies are lying to you all about certai things. Whether thats true...

[MannerBoy]

I so while i'm hard pushed to beleive you can present any evidence that would stand up to hard scrutiny

After all THE TV SAID Arabs did it. Why lie ?

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[DaNutsInYoEye]

to all my american poker friends. Think before u vote for Bush again. (plz)

1) You're Greek. This is like me telling you not to vote for Feta Baklava for prime minister in the next election.

2) In the US legal system, a president can't serve three consecutive terms anymore. Therefore you won't even have to worry about this possibly happening until 2012.

3) Ignore #2 because there will be another conspiracy, undoubtedly masterminded by conservatives, involving a constitutional amendment allowing George W. Bush to serve as president until his death. At that time he will be cryogenically frozen until science finds a way to resurrect him. He will then be president again until the world ends due to global warming caused by America's love for fossile fuels. It's all part of the United States master plan to annex the entire globe. I know it's true too because I read it on a website. Check it out at www.StupidHippieLiberalConspiracyOfTheWeek.com

[MannerBoy]

to all my american poker friends. Think before u vote for Bush again. (plz)

1) You're Greek. This is like me telling you not to vote for Feta Baklava for prime minister in the next election.

2) In the US legal system, a president can't serve three consecutive terms anymore. Therefore you won't even have to worry about this possibly happening until 2012.

3) Ignore #2 because there will be another conspiracy, undoubtedly masterminded by conservatives, involving a constitutional amendment allowing George W. Bush to serve as president until his death. At that time he will be cryogenically frozen until science finds a way to resurrect him. He will then be president again until the world ends due to global warming caused by America's love for fossile fuels. It's all part of the United States master plan to annex the entire globe. I know it's true too because I read it on a website. Check it out at www.StupidHippieLiberalConspiracyOfTheWeek.com

Sorry didnt know u play poker .

[DaNutsInYoEye]

to all my american poker friends. Think before u vote for Bush again. (plz)

1) You're Greek. This is like me telling you not to vote for Feta Baklava for prime minister in the next election.

2) In the US legal system, a president can't serve three consecutive terms anymore. Therefore you won't even have to worry about this possibly happening until 2012.

3) Ignore #2 because there will be another conspiracy, undoubtedly masterminded by conservatives, involving a constitutional amendment allowing George W. Bush to serve as president until his death. At that time he will be cryogenically frozen until science finds a way to resurrect him. He will then be president again until the world ends due to global warming caused by America's love for fossile fuels. It's all part of the United States master plan to annex the entire globe. I know it's true too because I read it on a website. Check it out at www.StupidHippieLiberalConspiracyOfTheWeek.com

Sorry didnt know u play poker .

I do, just not very well.

[MannerBoy]

Anyway , just watch some videos and want to share them here.
Didnt want to offend ur politic beliefs. Open mind = +EV

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Anyway , just watch some videos and want to share them here.
Didnt want to offend ur politic beliefs. Open mind = +EV

I looked at a couple of those links and they are basically the same as all the other conspiracy websites in seen. They claim "proof" that explosives were used to bring down the WTC. Their "proof" for this and many other allegations though amounts to nothing more than blurry photographs, blurry videos, anecedotal and circumstantial evidence.

Here is a nice piece comparing Bush to Hitler.... http://reopen911.org/hiddenhand.htm I found it under a link entilted: "CIA Literally Takes Over Popular Mechanics to Cover Up 9/11"

I have no problems with opinions or views that differ from my own. If someone wants to discuss an issue with me though and wants to be taken seriously then I suggest they produce credible evidence in support. These websites aren't credible. They make claims which they have little/no evidence to support. In my opinion it amounts to nothing more than propaganda. Any jerkoff can make an allegation.

[Lukie]

I love people who ignore facts, reality, scientific evidence etc., to charge that Bush was the ultimate master-mind of the 9/11 attacks.

Give me a break...

Also, as far as the maximum length a president can serve, this is my understanding. I'm not 100% accurate on this though. A persident can serve two full terms in office. Note that chronology doesn't matter.. a president can serve two full terms at any time but can't serve a third, even if it's not three in a row. Two is the limit. A president that serves less than one half of a full term (ie the vice-president taking over if the president dies in the latter half of his presidency) is still eligible to serve two more full terms.

[Pelion]

There are plenty of people around the world who are angry enough at what american foreign policy has done to their countries/families over the past 60 years to pull of something like this on their own. Why would the US government bother to risk pulling something this huge when they probably only have to wait a couple of years for a genuine terrorist attack? It is entirely possible that they had an idea "something" was going to happen but i doubt they masterminded the whole thing by themselves.

Bush & Co. certainly did use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan and Iraq (and then Syria or Iran or wherever it is they are going next) though.

I don't think the Bush administration would be morally averse to the idea of attacking their own people in order to stir up nationalism and gain better control. I just don't think they actually needed to in this case.

They would never have been able to get away with some of the so called "anti-terrorism" laws brought in both in the US and in the UK (my country) since 9/11 so i think it was something of a blessing in disguise for both governments. That doesn't mean they actually masterminded the plan.

[a500lbgorilla]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

[Pelion]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

huh?

[a500lbgorilla]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

huh?

Isn't this the thread where everyone tries to make the most outrageous comments sound like the truth?

[gabe]

NO

[gabe]

that was my outrageous comment that sounds like the truth

[gabe]

clever eh

[a500lbgorilla]

So then people really think that it's likely our gov't attacked us?

[gabe]

are you keeping the joke alive or did you just not read my posts

[a500lbgorilla]

I posted when I only saw NO. Then you snuck in two others, you sneaky guy.

9/11 was not a 'conspiracy'.

[gabe]

I posted when I only saw NO. Then you snuck in two others, you sneaky guy.

thanks

[boost]

I dont care to argue in this thread, I would just like to point out that its is plausable and not that absurd or outlandish of an idea that what happened at Enron is happening in the US government and economy as a whole. I think anyone argueing this to be an impossibility is just bias themselves. Look back into history, people high in power have abused it over and over for thier and thier close groups gain. Anyone that has half a brain knows the crusades had nothing to do with benefiting the christian followers as a whole. Anyone with half a brain knows that the civil war was not fought over slavery. At the time it appeared to people that the major benefactors where indeed the average christian and the slaves. Looking back we know the real benefactors where the people of high rank who pretended that what they where doing where selfless humane acts. I bet if you told any christian during the time of the crusades that the pope was sending thier sons to war for his and his freinds personal gain, they woulda spat at you, if not done physical harm. Just like if you say the bush group is doing it forthier own gain, people get offended, and call you a quack. Im not asking you to agree, Im just asking you to open your mind a bit, dont be so quick to discredit all these sources just because some are not credible.

Im not saying anything posted is 100%, but a lot of it is plausable, and seeing that the phrase "history repeates istself" has been proven true, it would not suprise me, and should not suprsie you, if a lot of this is true or very close to the truth.

[vqc]

I dont care to argue in this thread, I would just like to point out that its is plausable and not that absurd or outlandish of an idea that what happened at Enron is happening in the US government and economy as a whole. I think anyone argueing this to be an impossibility is just bias themselves. Look back into history, people high in power have abused it over and over for thier and thier close groups gain. Anyone that has half a brain knows the crusades had nothing to do with benefiting the christian followers as a whole. Anyone with half a brain knows that the civil war was not fought over slavery. At the time it appeared to people that the major benefactors where indeed the average christian and the slaves. Looking back we know the real benefactors where the people of high rank who pretended that what they where doing where selfless humane acts. I bet if you told any christian during the time of the crusades that the pope was sending thier sons to war for his and his freinds personal gain, they woulda spat at you, if not done physical harm. Just like if you say the bush group is doing it forthier own gain, people get offended, and call you a quack. Im not asking you to agree, Im just asking you to open your mind a bit, dont be so quick to discredit all these sources just because some are not credible.

Im not saying anything posted is 100%, but a lot of it is plausable, and seeing that the phrase "history repeates istself" has been proven true, it would not suprise me, and should not suprsie you, if a lot of this is true or very close to the truth.

o boost
not to say anything u said was wrong
or that i disagree (im not sure if i do becuase i havnt read it very closely)

but

what do u kno about the crusades =)?

[DoGGz]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

huh?

Isn't this the thread where everyone tries to make the most outrageous comments sound like the truth?

hahaha post of the year. Lets just move on to '07 because we can't top this.

[boost]

vqc, I havent slept in a bout 30 hours at this point, I really dont feel like trying to figure out what you are inferring. So make a fucking clear point or shut up, kthxgg.

[Demiparadigm]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

huh?

Isn't this the thread where everyone tries to make the most outrageous comments sound like the truth?

hahaha post of the year. Lets just move on to '07 because we can't top this.

Ann Coulter beat you to it. Sorry 'Rilla, you just aren't original enough.

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/...cgi?article=92

I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East, and sending liberals to Guantanamo.

hmmm.... Ann Coulter...

[gabe]

id hit it

[a500lbgorilla]

Why am I always living in the shadow of Ann Coulter?!

[Alibi]

I'm going to start a thread entitled "Things Gabe Wouldn't Hit"

[biondino]

id hit it

With an intercontinental missile strike

[dpcjsr]

The object that hit the pentagon is still a mystery. The damage done and lack of any evidence of a plane are facts. The damage does not match what would be expected of a plane, fact. There are videos available that were confiscated by the FBI that could easily put this matter to rest but are not being allowed to be seen by the public, fact.

Conclusion
a) I trust the US government, god bless america, mom, and apple pie.
b) something ain't right
c) pass me a beer

Just send me your chips if you choose a or c.

[Demiparadigm]

The object that hit the pentagon is still a mystery. The damage done and lack of any evidence of a plane are facts. The damage does not match what would be expected of a plane, fact. There are videos available that were confiscated by the FBI that could easily put this matter to rest but are not being allowed to be seen by the public, fact.

Conclusion
a) I trust the US government, god bless america, mom, and apple pie.
b) something ain't right
c) pass me a beer

Just send me your chips if you choose a or c.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/..._evidence.html

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

pwned???

[a500lbgorilla]

How dare you let your facts cloud what's really important! The stuff I may have overheard this morning while walking past the water cooler is sexier then the truth. Sex sells, demi. And God knows with our economy threatening to bottom out like the depression (or so I heard) we need sex now more than ever!

[Greedo017]

If the gov't wants to attack Americans on American soil, then I support that decision.

this is easily the greatest post ever made

dpcjsr (or whatever it is) your facts are terribly wrong read snopes a: there's a picture of airplane debris b: just because your mom tells you a boeing can't only do that damage doesn't make it true.


i watched some conspiracy videos a while ago. i started watching the hour long google video posted higher up here on this site and hung it up for good when he claimed the flash in front of the plane was a missle going off and said sure skeptics claim it was the front of the plane hitting the building, but no, i think instead this was a modified boeing plane that shot missles and the person flying it into the building at 400 +mph just happened to be able to have the reflexes to fire that missle at the exact moment the nose of the plane "coincidentally" hits the building, having the skill to fire the missle at the right moment from a plane traveling 1 mile per 8 seconds. I also feel like i can accurately distinguish where a flash is coming from in a space of time where the camera (likely 24 frames per second) is only getting one frame per 24 feet this plane is travelling.

not that i should be so bold as to critique Ed in his basement who determined so brilliantly that this can only be a missle launch, i must be poisoned by fox news that's in bush's back pocket, you all are right, Ed for Prez.

[PO$$E$$ED]

None of us know shit, and never will, so lets just live in blissful ignorance like the sheep we are. Meeeeeeeh

[UG]

None of us know shit, and never will, so lets just live in blissful ignorance like the sheep we are. Meeeeeeeh

And if we DID know shit, there wouldn't be shit that we could do about it anyway, so, yeah...

That said, all of this interests me like you wouldn't believe. 9-11, the London bombings, Flight 800, the Oklahoma City bombing, JFK's assasination, etc...Each situation has it's own set of unique elements that don't add up, weird coincidences that make you wonder if the "official story" really is the truth. I've got my opinions on each matter but don't share them often because 1) I can't prove it, and 2) people already have their own thoughts on each event so talking about or "debating" these issues will do no good in the end (unless your goal is to frustrate yourself or other people).

[boost]

I'm going to start a thread entitled "Things Gabe Wouldn't Hit"

we're past the days of contentless threads.

[boost]

George good point, I think anyone argueing that what the gov't has told them is absolute fact is a fool, as I think anyone believing what 'Ed-the-basement-dweller' says is absolute fact is a fool too.

[lolzzz_321]

bump for wuf

[TheLongGrind]

better odds dying from a champagne cork popping in your face than dying in a terrorist attack , yet everyone bitches about terrorism which shouldn't even be a topic in politics

[Galapogos]

Some old names in here. What ever happened to Possessed? Who is he on here now?

Also, do you guys remember how Miffed would seem like a pretty level-headed normal guy then every once in a while he'd just totally blame Jews for something bizarre?

Good times.

[lolzzz_321]

po$$ doesn't post here anymore; however, we are myface friends and he is a medic in the army

[boost]

I dont care to argue in this thread, I would just like to point out that its is plausable and not that absurd or outlandish of an idea that what happened at Enron is happening in the US government and economy as a whole. I think anyone argueing this to be an impossibility is just bias themselves. Look back into history, people high in power have abused it over and over for thier and thier close groups gain. Anyone that has half a brain knows the crusades had nothing to do with benefiting the christian followers as a whole. Anyone with half a brain knows that the civil war was not fought over slavery. At the time it appeared to people that the major benefactors where indeed the average christian and the slaves. Looking back we know the real benefactors where the people of high rank who pretended that what they where doing where selfless humane acts. I bet if you told any christian during the time of the crusades that the pope was sending thier sons to war for his and his freinds personal gain, they woulda spat at you, if not done physical harm. Just like if you say the bush group is doing it forthier own gain, people get offended, and call you a quack. Im not asking you to agree, Im just asking you to open your mind a bit, dont be so quick to discredit all these sources just because some are not credible.

Im not saying anything posted is 100%, but a lot of it is plausable, and seeing that the phrase "history repeates istself" has been proven true, it would not suprise me, and should not suprsie you, if a lot of this is true or very close to the truth.

I was ready to facepalm from stupidity contained in my 6 year old post (as is usual)... but then I read it and it wasn't all that bad. The bolded is lolwtf though.

[bigred]

Lolwtf boost. Good stuff.