Bigred's Video Game Thread

[Jack Sawyer]

Why? You hate those for the same reasons as you hate Destiny 2's XP cheat.

If you say so. You apparently know why I hate one thing or another.

Why not get the government to fix everything you don't like? Where would you like the government intervention to stop? What if an angry vocal minority gets the government to take away something you do like. How are you gonna get the toothpaste back in the tube?

The government exists for a few reasons, chief of which being protection of its citizens.

Is underage gambling really big enough an epidemic that you're prepared to slide down that slippery slope of nanny-state meddling?

Have you been keeping up with the news?

no that's not the crux.

Yes it is. I'm not going to tolerate a company which intentionally misleads me. Does that not warrant being snitched to the BBB?

Say you go to a restaurant and order a chicken sandwhich. Instead you get an iguana sandwhich. On your receipt, there is still chicken sandwhich. The waitress tells you "here you go, this is your chicken sandwich". I'm told they are virtually indistinguishable qua taste. Later, through test, you figure out that this restaurant has been serving iguana as chicken because it's cheaper meat hopin no one finds out. Would you not be angry as fuck, knowing that said restaurant WILLFULLY AND INTENTIONALLY LIED about said sandwich being chicken?

The actual crux of the issue is WHY THEY LIED.

I don't care.

-Did they lie to purposefully drive increased microtransactions in order to greedily pad a profit margin that was already fair?

I don't care.

-Were development costs so high that they were denied a fair profit margin, and thus need to drive MicroTx sales to compensate?

I don't care. This is the part where I tell you "But have you seen their earnings call?" and then you'll rebut with "B'S A COMPANY THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING MONEY HOWEVER THEY PLEASE IDC ABOUT FAIR THEY NEED TO MAKE THE MONIES" etc. I think we've done this dance before too.

-or did they just make a game who's enjoy-ability depends on a thriving community of active gamers. As such, it is in the community's interest to create mechanisms that encourage players to play longer, and have more diverse gameplay objectives.

I don't care. How many gaming communites just like the one you describe do not exist, and all of these without having to have had to lie, deceive and con their customers in the name of money?

The point is that the company lied to me. Tried to, at least. Once caught with the hand in the proverbial cookie jar, it didn't even say it was a mistake nor anything. Just that "the system did not function as intended". Indicating that there WAS a system in place doing this, which only came to light after investigative digging.

It could be any of those. So until I see some EVIDENCE of the worst case scenario, I don't think it's fair to assume the worst case scenario.

There is simply no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Dude, seriously, you are the best customer ever. Of all time.

You're misquoting me. But it's not important. It doesn't matter if we're talking about magazines or memory cards, just because they aren't published, produced, distributed, or sold by a the game-makers, doesn't mean that the game-makers aren't benefiting.

Here is me, "misquoting" you

https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...11#post2280911

https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...97#post2280897

This is the actual interaction, in context

Extra hardware, HD wires, magazine subscriptions, 900-numbers, memory cards......these were all revenue streams that gaming companies used to have, but don't anymore.

LOL, those that made the games really did benefit from selling those magazines back in the day.

You are making less and less sense, but let's continue.

Dude....we didn't have the internet. Video games were not mainstream enough to be advertised in prime time. If you wanted to know what was up, you needed to read the magazines. The only reason I knew Final Fantasy existed is because of Nintendo Power. It made me want to buy the game. I did end up buying the game. So....yeah, game makers benefited ALOT from that shit.

You do understand, I assume, that Nintendo is just one publisher which also happened to be the dominant console maker back in the day right? What about all of the other devs? Did they have magazines too?

Electronic Gaming Monthly was a thing back then. So, yes.

Definitely not trolling. Everything I posted was sincere.

Of course. Yet first line you claim somehow EGM == Nintendo Power.

Nintendo Power was first party. EGM was just a fucking magazine that covered gaming. How the fuck did they have anything to do with Konami is beyond me.

And then you go on strawmanning and throwing more false equivalencies around, and yet claim to be serious.

You cannot be this dense. Of course you are trolling

... more nonsense, the classic $60 argument etc ...

Have you seen Take2's earnings call? Bear in mind they haven't released a fucking game in two years.

Claiming that companies have a tough time etc, as it's soo expensive making games nowadays, because why else would they require so much money. Have you seen EA's share price recently? Bear in mind that It was $15 in 2013. It was $120 prior to Star wars battlefront 2 release, november 2017. It's now at $105 after the backlash, and rebounding.

They can't make money right? They are having SUCH A TOUGH TIME selling games at $60 a pop.

What you are saying about games being OH SO EXPENSIVE TO MAKE MY GOD is a myth, perpetrated by those who will simply try to milk you dry of every penny you have by introducing consumables, lootboxes, and every other possible avenue to turn you upside down and shake you, bully-style. That is the main problem in the games industry right now. But you will never understand this; I will now shut up as I don't want to insult you

What are you talking about? Are you saying that there are games out there that launched with certain features, and then those features were taken back with some kind of update later? Is that really a widespread problem?

Please watch the video above for some examples

If you bought a car with doors, and some repo men came by later and took the doors away, then you have a beef. But if you drove off the lot with no doors......that's a YOU problem.

This is the problem. You will pay for said car and drive off, and then the doors will simply dissapear as they were generated by hologram and of course you were not notified of this in any way, shape or form. Now that you think of it was kind of suspect that the doors would open themselves whenever you approached the car, Tesla Model S style.

yeah, details I guess. Companies will sell products where there is a market for them. If there is a market for selling games piecemeal, why should a company be denied the chance to compete in that market? Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

Yes, and when they cross the proverbial line, they have to bear with the consequences of crossing said line. And turns out I'm not the only one who is not a Perfect Customer.

Just because you personally don't care for it, doesn't mean that it's time to call in the sheriff and outlaw the practice entirely.

I wonder what would happen in the wild wild west, since you brought up a sheriff.

That you know of.

And once I know of it, there will be hell to pay. I will not support deceiptful business practices.

Question: Does it matter if they deceive you specifically? Or is any underhanded business practice enough to initiate a boycott from you?

Sure. Classic example would be a hookers blowjob. A very pretty hooker, and then she blindfolds and cuffs you before the blowjob. It starts feeling like a great blowjob, but a minute in the blindfold slips and you find you were getting a blowjob by an old toothless witch. Boner gone. Would you A) come back to this hooker and b) pay for the current session?

I mean, what if cuphead was made by nazis using stolen IP. Would you stop playing even though it's a good game?

Ah, reductio ad hitlerum. I wonder when that would show up. And the answer to that is no, they did not deceive me with the game. I have noidea who made any of the games I play, and there may or may not be actual fucking skinheads on the development team, yet no way to know for sure. It would be stupid to boycott on such a basis.

lol....have you bought anything, ever? Then I think you might have broken your vow here.

Definitely not off late night TV ads

Again, if you like buying stuff knowing full well they deceive you, go ahead. I, however, refuse to. A company/product that willfully, knowingly deceives me is not worth my money. It can go fuck itself.

[BananaStand]

If you say so. You apparently know why I hate one thing or another.

It seems pretty obvious that you hate spending money on video games while simultaneously experiencing the frustration of wanting to play video games. Classic poverty-induced jealousy.

The government exists for a few reasons, chief of which being protection of its citizens

Aggressive sales tactics from video game companies is not a threat to national security.

Have you been keeping up with the news?

Yeah

Yes it is. I'm not going to tolerate a company which intentionally misleads me. Does that not warrant being snitched to the BBB?

Have you filed a complaint? If not, STFU. You know if you do file a complaint, they will respond. Let's see if the BBB agrees that you need more bright engrams. Be ready though...they will ask you what damages you incurred. They kinda need that info if they are going to offer you a remedy.

So, what damages have you incurred?

Say you go to a restaurant and order a chicken sandwhich. Instead you get an iguana sandwhich

That would suck. Fortunately there is a government body that enforces restaurant practices and requires certain disclosures that are explicit and accurate. That government body exists because FOOD is something vital to the health and safety of the citizenry.

Sorry, but XP and StarCards just don't rise to that level. If you feel that they do, then you need therapy because you have become WAY too invested in your toys.

I don't care

LOL why? It's perfectly ok to perceive an act differently based on whether or not the intentions were honorable.

I don't care. This is the part where I tell you "But have you seen their earnings call?"

I'm not going down the road of what is "enough" profit. Any company, in any industry, anywhere, is seeking the maximum profits that a market will yield. If the market will pay it, then it's justified. Period. If you choose to leave that market....then fine. That's your decision. But you aren't OWED anything.

Explain why you feel so entitled to get the games you want, with the features you want, at the price you want.

I don't care. How many gaming communites just like the one you describe do not exist, and all of these without having to have had to lie, deceive and con their customers in the name of money?

Prove that they were motivated only 'in the name of money'. Prove the me that they didn't to it to bolster the community within the game. Prove to me that they didn't do it for some benign game-balancing reasons.

The point is that the company lied to me. Tried to, at least. Once caught with the hand in the proverbial cookie jar, it didn't even say it was a mistake nor anything. Just that "the system did not function as intended". Indicating that there WAS a system in place doing this, which only came to light after investigative digging.

Yeah...they did it. You still don't know WHY they did it. You have your assumptions, but that's all they are.

There is simply no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Do you not see that Destiny 2 is an awesome friggen game with a very satisfying pace of play and frequency of rewards? Does that not matter to you at all?? You've blocked out everything about the game except for a laser-focused obsession with a mildly deceptive nuance of the XP system that has since been fixed. And you call other people "blind"?

Claiming that companies have a tough time etc, as it's soo expensive making games nowadays, because why else would they require so much money

I never said any of that. I'm not shedding any tears for game companies. However, at the same time I'm not going to begrudge them any profits that the market is willing to give them. If you're not part of that market, that's your choice. But don't be a bitch sitting on the fringe and crying "but I have a tough time and it's sooo expensive playing games nowadays"

Have you seen EA's share price recently? Bear in mind that It was $15 in 2013. It was $120 prior to Star wars battlefront 2 release, november 2017. It's now at $105 after the backlash, and rebounding

What's your point? They goofed, the market responded, they lost value. Then they did away with the offensive practice, and now their stock is rising again. What about this confuses or offends you?

They can't make money right? They are having SUCH A TOUGH TIME selling games at $60 a pop.

I never said that.

What you are saying about games being OH SO EXPENSIVE TO MAKE MY GOD

When did I say that?

is a myth, perpetrated by those who will simply try to milk you dry of every penny you have by introducing consumables, lootboxes, and every other possible avenue to turn you upside down and shake you, bully-style.

That's a pretty grim outlook. If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe smoke less pot. Other than, the only thing I can recommend is when a game presents you with some unsavory solicitation...TURN IT OFF!

You know that no one is making you do this right? You know that the only people affected negatively by this are people who are delusionally invested in video game accomplishments as if they matter in the real world. Maybe all your problems would go away if you just chilled out and realized it's just a toy.

That is the main problem in the games industry right now.

No it's the main problem YOU have with the games industry right now. Not the same thing.

This is the problem. You will pay for said car and drive off, and then the doors will simply dissapear as they were generated by hologram and of course you were not notified of this in any way, shape or form.

That's NOT the example you gave originally. What you're describing now is a deceptive business practice where a customer was led to believe they were paying for doors, and then got no doors. There are consumer protection agencies out there to prosecute these kind of offenses. Do you see why? Because there are actual DAMAGES. You gave away money in exchange for doors but instead got nothing.

You'll never convince me that getting less XP than you expected represents DAMAGES.

A more apt example would be if you bought a car that advertised gas mileage of 40mpg. Then you drove it for a year and found that it only got 36mpg. You went back to the dealer and complained. You were told that the estimate of 40 is "just an estimate" and was calculated in a factory test facility under ideal conditions. If you drive your car on a hill, in the wind, loaded with cargo, or anywhere other than an ideal-condition factory test facility then YMMV.

Only a stupid fucking douchebag would throw a fit saying "but that wasn't explained to me upfront!"

Yes, and when they cross the proverbial line, they have to bear with the consequences of crossing said line. And turns out I'm not the only one who is not a Perfect Customer.

And that's exactly what happened. SWBF2 got terrible reviews and sold poorly. EA's stock took a hit because of it.

Honestly, what else do you want?

I wonder what would happen in the wild wild west, since you brought up a sheriff

.
Why would that matter at all?

This is a poker site. Do you know how the handled bad beats in the wild west?

Player A: "I got a four of a kind"
Player B: "I got a straight flush"
Player A: "No you got a bullet in your gut. I'm taking your money, and I'll probably fuck your wife later. Enjoy being dead"

And once I know of it, there will be hell to pay. I will not support deceiptful business practices.

I'll bet you've used over a dozen products today from companies that told you little white lies. Your car's gas mileage is definitely one example. Have you ever seen laundry detergent packages that say "32 loads"? Have you ever counted? Is it fair for potato chip companies to say that their product is only 200 calories per serving while referring to an absurdly small portion of chips as a "serving". This shit happens every day. This crusade you're on is akin to pissing your pants. Sure it feels good, but you look fucking stupid.

Sure. Classic example would be a hookers blowjob. A very pretty hooker, and then she blindfolds and cuffs you before the blowjob. It starts feeling like a great blowjob, but a minute in the blindfold slips and you find you were getting a blowjob by an old toothless witch. Boner gone. Would you A) come back to this hooker and b) pay for the current session?

This doesn't answer the question that I asked, at all. I would say though, don't fuck around with witches. Pay her. Be polite, and leave her a good rating on Erotic Review. You don't want her to put a spell that makes your dick grow tree-bark or some shit like that.

Definitely not off late night TV ads

Such a specific answer to a broad question. LOL. I think what you meant to say is "Yes, I buy things". Whether you like to admit it or not, you are manipulated by advertising. The only things you actually need are food, and shelter. Literally everything else you buy is the result of a psychological manipulation.

Again, if you like buying stuff knowing full well they deceive you, go ahead. I, however, refuse to. A company/product that willfully, knowingly deceives me is not worth my money. It can go fuck itself

Have you ever had a beer? You know that despite how it's advertised, you wont' always find yourself in the midst of a huge party full of attractive people every time you open a can, right?

Do you still drink beer even though its makers spend millions upon millions engaging in deceptive and predatory advertising?

You know the expiration date on your milk is deliberately manipulated to make you consume it faster and buy more sooner. Are you giving that up too?

Have you ever seen a big mac that actually looks like the perfectly manicured burger creation that you see in the commercials?

Where do you buy your games? If it's gamestop, then you're patronizing foul unsavory liars. I worked there back in the days when it was called FuncoLand. We used to give out a cheap magazine with news, reviews and previews of upcoming games. That magazine was owned by the same company that owned the game stores. Do you see the conflict of interest?

Do you think it was a coincidence that Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer for N64 was named "Game of the Year" at precisely the same time that stores had accidentally over-stocked their inventories with that particular game??

Look man, it sure sounds noble to be crusading against deceptive business practices. But I think you need to raise the bar on what you consider to be an injustice. Otherwise you're just a ranting, nit-picking lunatic getting his feathers ruffled every time someone offends your particular chosen set of principles.

[Jack Sawyer]

It seems pretty obvious that you hate spending money on video games while simultaneously experiencing the frustration of wanting to play video games. Classic poverty-induced jealousy.

If it's worth my money I'll gladly spend my money on it. I'm an avid practicioner of, what's the term again ... voting with my wallet. If it has greedy practices in it, they can kindly go fuck themselves.

Yeah

LOL

Have you filed a complaint? If not, STFU. You know if you do file a complaint, they will respond. Let's see if the BBB agrees that you need more bright engrams. Be ready though...they will ask you what damages you incurred. They kinda need that info if they are going to offer you a remedy.

So, what damages have you incurred?

So we, as consumers, as the community, must accept whatever shitty practice the developers and publishers implement in a game, because the damage is not that much. If they need more payment without reason, we should just pay and shut the fuck up.

Great logic there, Watson. Never seen a slippery slope before I imagine

That would suck. Fortunately there is a government body that enforces ...

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha just too good

I'm not going down the road of what is "enough" profit. Any company, in any industry, anywhere, is seeking the maximum profits that a market will yield. If the market will pay it, then it's justified. Period. If you choose to leave that market....then fine. That's your decision. But you aren't OWED anything.

Explain why you feel so entitled to get the games you want, with the features you want, at the price you want.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have the "games are too expensive to make" argument while simultaneously oblivios of the "you are making money hands over fist, covering your expenses many times over" argument. DUCY?

Yeah...they did it. You still don't know WHY they did it. You have your assumptions, but that's all they are.

1+1=2. Unless you live in a parallel dimension. Or if you are Banana

Do you not see that Destiny 2 is an awesome friggen game with a very satisfying pace of play and frequency of rewards? Does that not matter to you at all?? You've blocked out everything about the game except for a laser-focused obsession with a mildly deceptive nuance of the XP system that has since been fixed. And you call other people "blind"?

Sure. Did you buy the Curse of Osiris yet?

What's your point? They goofed, the market responded, they lost value. Then they did away with the offensive practice, and now their stock is rising again. What about this confuses or offends you?

My point is they can't bitch about "games are too expensive to make" arguments while simultaneously oblivios of the "you are making money hands over fist, covering your expenses many times over" argument. DUCY?

When did I say that?

Of course you didn't. What did you say? That made sense?

That's a pretty grim outlook. If you think everyone is out to get you, maybe smoke less pot. Other than, the only thing I can recommend is when a game presents you with some unsavory solicitation...TURN IT OFF!

Sure. Did you buy the Curse of Osiris yet? Else you may not have the content that you already had anymore. Just a heads-up.

You know that no one is making you do this right? You know that the only people affected negatively by this are people who are delusionally invested in video game accomplishments as if they matter in the real world. Maybe all your problems would go away if you just chilled out and realized it's just a toy.

Sure. Which is why I keep my money in my pocket and I only buy the deserving games.

No it's the main problem YOU have with the games industry right now. Not the same thing.

I assume that with this "YOU" you mean a lot of fucking people and not just me. Or you may not have been paying attention.

That's NOT the example you gave originally. What you're describing now is a deceptive business practice where a customer was led to believe they were paying for doors, and then got no doors. There are consumer protection agencies out there to prosecute these kind of offenses. Do you see why? Because there are actual DAMAGES. You gave away money in exchange for doors but instead got nothing.

For a normal person with a normal train of thought, yes, that should have been the original conclusion.

You'll never convince me that getting less XP than you expected represents DAMAGES.

Of course not.

A more apt example would be if you bought a car that advertised gas mileage of 40mpg. Then you drove it for a year and found that it only got 36mpg. You went back to the dealer and complained. You were told that the estimate of 40 is "just an estimate" and was calculated in a factory test facility under ideal conditions. If you drive your car on a hill, in the wind, loaded with cargo, or anywhere other than an ideal-condition factory test facility then YMMV.

That's an example of a very different thing. The gas for that car is not something you can buy at only that particular dealer, or that particular car manufacturer. Incentives change intentions a lot. Don't you think?

Only a stupid fucking douchebag would throw a fit saying "but that wasn't explained to me upfront!"

Then I would be a stupid fucking douchebag when I realize that my car doors have disappeared. I would throw a fit.

Oh, and about the disappearing car doors, you can find a real world example here:

https://kotaku.com/forza-7-turns-the...not-1819110716

Why would that matter at all?

This is a poker site. Do you know how the handled bad beats in the wild west?

Player A: "I got a four of a kind"
Player B: "I got a straight flush"
Player A: "No you got a bullet in your gut. I'm taking your money, and I'll probably fuck your wife later. Enjoy being dead"

Rhetorical question Banana. You did not have to answer.

I'll bet you've used over a dozen products today from companies that told you little white lies.

It's not a little white lie banana, but I'm done trying to make you understand because you'll never understand as you just admitted above

Such a specific answer to a broad question. LOL. I think what you meant to say is "Yes, I buy things". Whether you like to admit it or not, you are manipulated by advertising. The only things you actually need are food, and shelter. Literally everything else you buy is the result of a psychological manipulation.

Still, you got deceived. It's not the bitch you wanted, nor the one you entered an agreement with.

Have you ever had a beer? You know that despite how it's advertised, you wont' always find yourself in the midst of a huge party full of attractive people every time you open a can, right?

Do you still drink beer even though its makers spend millions upon millions engaging in deceptive and predatory advertising?

Oh, I sure drink beer. Not american beers though. And I haven't seen the deceptive and predatory advertising, but it wouldn't surprise me. One question though; do they market beer to teens?

You know the expiration date on your milk is deliberately manipulated to make you consume it faster and buy more sooner. Are you giving that up too?

There is something way too funny about expiration dates. I'll leave that for you to find out on our own.

Have you ever seen a big mac that actually looks like the perfectly manicured burger creation that you see in the commercials?

Every living soul knows about this one? Your point being?

Where do you buy your games? If it's gamestop, then you're patronizing foul unsavory liars. I worked there back in the days when it was called FuncoLand. We used to give out a cheap magazine with news, reviews and previews of upcoming games. That magazine was owned by the same company that owned the game stores. Do you see the conflict of interest?

LOL, gamestop. I'm not american Banana

Do you think it was a coincidence that Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer for N64 was named "Game of the Year" at precisely the same time that stores had accidentally over-stocked their inventories with that particular game??

LOL conspiracies. A quick cursory glance reveals it wasn't really in the running for either '99 nor '00. Odd.

Anyway, you really have a warped idea about what I think about games journalism & journalists. Spoiler alert: I do not like them

Look man, it sure sounds noble to be crusading against deceptive business practices. But I think you need to raise the bar on what you consider to be an injustice. Otherwise you're just a ranting, nit-picking lunatic getting his feathers ruffled every time someone offends your particular chosen set of principles.

It is an injustice, but it's a far reaching injustice. This is just the latest symptom of a long running malady of the industry.

Did you buy Curse of the Osiris yet?

[Jack Sawyer]

Destiny never attracted me for some reason.

Like, before all the controversies. Now, with the controversies, fuck 'em