Bigred's Video Game Thread

[BananaStand]

So you bought hook line and sinker what their lawyer is saying?

Is there a compelling reason not to??

As, your words are literally word for word what this article says: https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/18/1...-of-use-tmartn

Yep, it appears we have the same google machine.

Here is what tmartn said back in the day

No one is disputing the dishonesty. What seems to be in dispute...is the man's intent. You see "sinister villain". I see "idiot".

It seems that law enforcement and the justice system agree with me. So, why are you right and we're all wrong?

They meted out a punishment that was commensurate with a non-nefarious intent. Corrected the behavior, and now it's not a problem anymore. The system worked....so what's your beef?

[Jack Sawyer]

Is there a compelling reason not to??

More than have already been presented?

Yep, it appears we have the same google machine.

Yes, the difference being that I try to understand what I read before putting it in a thread trying to make arguments

No one is disputing the dishonesty. What seems to be in dispute...is the man's intent. You see "sinister villain". I see "idiot".

It seems that law enforcement and the justice system agree with me. So, why are you right and we're all wrong?

OJ did it

hey meted out a punishment that was commensurate with a non-nefarious intent. Corrected the behavior, and now it's not a problem anymore. The system worked....so what's your beef?

I don't really know what my beef is, you know. Maybe it's the fact that he willfully and intentionally tried to deceive the public with something so crucial as ownership of a gambling site (as you know superusers are still a thing [POTRIPPER anyone?]), or that it's gambling (by every definition of the action except current laws apparently simply refuse to recognize this) aimed at kids, or that once caught he deflected, still denying ownership, and then eventually owned up to it with apologies claiming "I didn't know", or the fact that these assholes got off with nary a slap on the wrist whereas if one steals fruit from a store you can go to jail for a long longass time

I just don't know what my beef is with this particular situation. Never really been a CSGO player

[BananaStand]

More than have already been presented?

All that's been presented is a case of a dishonest non-disclosure. I haven't seen any definitive evidence of malice. The dishonesty was caught, punished, and corrected. What should have happened instead?

Yes, the difference being that I try to understand what I read before putting it in a thread trying to make arguments

I understand that according to the letter of the law, it's not gambling. If you have a problem with that, take it up with lawmakers. Explain to them how the McDonalds monopoly game is ruining kids lives, and needs to be stopped. Start a petition. Get a gofund me page to help all of the afflicted underage gamblers out there.

But DON"T stomp your feet and demand a whole new judicial precedent that expands the definition of gambling, just so it can be used to shut down a perfectly legal business practice that you find distasteful. And I'll reiterate, this concern you seem to have for the children feels really really phony. I know for a fact there were some terrible stories of kids losing shitloads at online poker about a dozen years ago. I'll bet anything that no one on this forum gave a shit.

Be honest now Jack...let's say hypothetically you took $1,000 from someone in heads-up cash games online. Then later you got a letter from PokerStars saying "Your opponent was actually underage, and it would be nice if you gave the money back". Are you gonna give the money back?

See, shutting down poker to protect kids would take away something you like. But shutting down skin-gambling takes away something you don't like, so now it's ok to invoke the "what about the children" argument.....why?????

OJ did it

Not relevant. That was one case 25 years ago. As I see it, your problem here stems from the fact that these guys were not prosecuted aggressively enough, and that the 'slap on the wrist' was not a fitting punishment. How is that relevant to OJ? They charged him with two counts of capital murder, and sought a minimum punishment of life in prison.

There are plenty of bad people who get prosecuted and punished with the full power of the law, every single day. Are you really telling me that your faith in the justice system is shaken because they didn't absolutely destroy the life and livelihood of these kids? Like....is it at all possible in your mind that they're actually good people who just got carried away and made a mistake??

If not, then maybe you should run for attorney general and actually DO something about the problem. Or communicate with your own local judicial authorities and let them know of your concern. If enough people do that, then it will be considered in future cases.

But if you're just gonna sit here and say "NAAAAAH, I don't like that....change it!" Then don't get pissy when no one listens or cares.

I don't really know what my beef is, you know. Maybe it's the fact that he willfully and intentionally tried to deceive the public with something so crucial as ownership of a gambling site (as you know superusers are still a thing [POTRIPPER anyone?]),

From what I gather, this isn't the same thing as potripper. The superuser problem in poker resulted in people actually losing money through exploitation. There were actual victims, with measurable damages. This skin-gambling thing seems to be limited to a simple non-disclosure in advertising. Not even close.

Like, if potripper owned the site, and was playing on the site, but was doing so in a way that did not give him an advantage....that's still bad. But it is decidedly LESS bad than if he used his superuser status to cheat.

or that it's gambling (by every definition of the action except current laws apparently simply refuse to recognize this) aimed at kids,

There is obviously a lot of gray area here. Laws can't "refuse" to do something, only people can. If the law is being broken, report it to law enforcement. If it's really a problem, if the law is really being broken, they will do something about it.

But as you are learning....the law is alot more than your own personal narrow understanding of it.

or that once caught he deflected, still denying ownership, and then eventually owned up to it with apologies claiming "I didn't know",

So what? Scrambling, desperate denials are not uncommon when people are caught. His denials were proven false, and the FTC acted. So what's the problem?? If the guy has lost credibility in your eyes because of his dishonesty....so be it. He risked his reputation, he lost, and now it's tarnished. I have no problem if you choose to participate in a market response.

or the fact that these assholes got off with nary a slap on the wrist whereas if one steals fruit from a store you can go to jail for a long longass time

Again, that's a crime with identifiable victims and measurable damages.

Do you really really think that these guys should go to jail for a "long, longass time"?

[Jack Sawyer]

All that's been presented is a case of a dishonest non-disclosure. I haven't seen any definitive evidence of malice. The dishonesty was caught, punished, and corrected. What should have happened instead?

Gone to prison for a long, longass time

I understand that according to the letter of the law, it's not gambling. If you have a problem with that, take it up with lawmakers. Explain to them how the McDonalds monopoly game is ruining kids lives, and needs to be stopped. Start a petition. Get a gofund me page to help all of the afflicted underage gamblers out there.

But DON"T stomp your feet and demand a whole new judicial precedent that expands the definition of gambling, just so it can be used to shut down a perfectly legal business practice that you find distasteful. And I'll reiterate, this concern you seem to have for the children feels really really phony. I know for a fact there were some terrible stories of kids losing shitloads at online poker about a dozen years ago. I'll bet anything that no one on this forum gave a shit.

Of course no one on this forum gives a shit. Does that make it less bad?

Be honest now Jack...let's say hypothetically you took $1,000 from someone in heads-up cash games online. Then later you got a letter from PokerStars saying "Your opponent was actually underage, and it would be nice if you gave the money back". Are you gonna give the money back?

See, shutting down poker to protect kids would take away something you like. But shutting down skin-gambling takes away something you don't like, so now it's ok to invoke the "what about the children" argument.....why?????

Strawman, but I'll bite. You do understand how the blame in this particular strawman falls on Stars right? In proper poker parlance, DUCY?

Not relevant. That was one case 25 years ago. As I see it, your problem here stems from the fact that these guys were not prosecuted aggressively enough, and that the 'slap on the wrist' was not a fitting punishment. How is that relevant to OJ? They charged him with two counts of capital murder, and sought a minimum punishment of life in prison.

There are plenty of bad people who get prosecuted and punished with the full power of the law, every single day. Are you really telling me that your faith in the justice system is shaken because they didn't absolutely destroy the life and livelihood of these kids? Like....is it at all possible in your mind that they're actually good people who just got carried away and made a mistake??

It happened a million years ago, yet he still got away light.

If not, then maybe you should run for attorney general and actually DO something about the problem. Or communicate with your own local judicial authorities and let them know of your concern. If enough people do that, then it will be considered in future cases.

But if you're just gonna sit here and say "NAAAAAH, I don't like that....change it!" Then don't get pissy when no one listens or cares.

Sure, had I been a Yankee

From what I gather, this isn't the same thing as potripper. The superuser problem in poker resulted in people actually losing money through exploitation. There were actual victims, with measurable damages. This skin-gambling thing seems to be limited to a simple non-disclosure in advertising. Not even close.

Like, if potripper owned the site, and was playing on the site, but was doing so in a way that did not give him an advantage....that's still bad. But it is decidedly LESS bad than if he used his superuser status to cheat.

All rise!

Evidence #651 your honor.



So he wins big at his own site. WHAT A COINCIDENCE?

95% of his videos were big wins. I wonder why ...

Oh, and just to help you get your facts straight, it WAS an owner of then UB who did the POTRIPPER-ing. Also the one on Absolute Poker.

Owners, man, never with any malicious intent

https://www.highstakesdb.com/communi...iliar-with-it/
https://www.pokernewsdaily.com/new-e...scandal-10735/

There is obviously a lot of gray area here. Laws can't "refuse" to do something, only people can. If the law is being broken, report it to law enforcement. If it's really a problem, if the law is really being broken, they will do something about it.

But as you are learning....the law is alot more than your own personal narrow understanding of it.

So, you just lay down and take laws? You never dispute anything? If it has been made THE LAW it is correct for you every single time?

So what? Scrambling, desperate denials are not uncommon when people are caught. His denials were proven false, and the FTC acted. So what's the problem?? If the guy has lost credibility in your eyes because of his dishonesty....so be it. He risked his reputation, he lost, and now it's tarnished. I have no problem if you choose to participate in a market response.

Yup, he got caught, and now came the lies and the denials. If you were just "an idiot" doing it "without malice", fess the fuck up. You already got caught with the hand in the cookie jar. That's an extra 20 years right there

Again, that's a crime with identifiable victims and measurable damages.

Do you really really think that these guys should go to jail for a "long, longass time"?

What a silly question

[BananaStand]

Gone to prison for a long, longass time

Holy shit dude.....really???

Of course no one on this forum gives a shit. Does that make it less bad?

It makes any criticism of similar behavior on this forum seem ironic.

Strawman, but I'll bite. You do understand how the blame in this particular strawman falls on Stars right? In proper poker parlance, DUCY?

Dodge....but I'll bite.

I get that. I'm asking you if your 'save the children' value system would compel you to give the money back. Regardless of who is technically to blame, in this case you would still have money that you acquired through the exploitation of a child. Would you keep it?

If so, then your entire argument about kids gambling is a STRAWMAN.

It happened a million years ago, yet he still got away light.

He was acquitted. Do you really not understand this? The prosecutors put mountains of damming evidence in front of a jury and they still said "not guilty". What do you think should have happened??

95% of his videos were big wins. I wonder why ...

Yeah, I also wonder why casino ads always show cool people having fun instead of showing degenerates giving away their social security check.

Oh, and just to help you get your facts straight, it WAS an owner of then UB who did the POTRIPPER-ing. Also the one on Absolute Poker.

I already have that fact straight. It's like you're deliberately trying to avoid my point.

There is a MASSIVE difference between an owner playing on his own site, and an owner using his ownership privileges to cheat. Both are bad. But surely you understand why one should be punished more severely than the other.

Was the CSGO lotto site cheating? Did they alter the algorithms in a way that resulted in them winning all the time? Did they actually make money by defrauding other players? Cuz I'm pretty sure that the FTC would have looked into that. Once they were busted for non-disclosure, any sensible investigation would have sought to uncover their motive. So I'm sure they all got a look at the code.

So, you just lay down and take laws? You never dispute anything? If it has been made THE LAW it is correct for you every single time?

Does not follow...

I suggested to you, that if a law has been broken, to report it to law enforcement. What does this have to do with disputing laws?

It sounds like you're just miffed that the legal definition of gambling doesn't exactly fit this CSGO lotto site because they used a slippery loophole where you don't actually have to pay to play. I think that according to your own personal specific 'eyeball test', it's gambling. And because your eyeballs say it's gambling, you expect the law to conform to your preferred interpretation.

Good luck with that.

Yup, he got caught, and now came the lies and the denials. If you were just "an idiot" doing it "without malice", fess the fuck up. You already got caught with the hand in the cookie jar. That's an extra 20 years right there

Puh-leeeze! I've walked into a room where two of my three kids are crying and the other one is sitting there pretending like nothing is going on. And I"m like "what did you do to your sisters?" Then she says "nothing"

lol.....20 years.....el oh fucking el.

They're kids Jack. Chill the fuck out.

[Jack Sawyer]

Holy shit dude.....really???


It makes any criticism of similar behavior on this forum seem ironic.


Dodge....but I'll bite.

I get that. I'm asking you if your 'save the children' value system would compel you to give the money back. Regardless of who is technically to blame, in this case you would still have money that you acquired through the exploitation of a child. Would you keep it?

If so, then your entire argument about kids gambling is a STRAWMAN.


He was acquitted. Do you really not understand this? The prosecutors put mountains of damming evidence in front of a jury and they still said "not guilty". What do you think should have happened??


Yeah, I also wonder why casino ads always show cool people having fun instead of showing degenerates giving away their social security check.


I already have that fact straight. It's like you're deliberately trying to avoid my point.

There is a MASSIVE difference between an owner playing on his own site, and an owner using his ownership privileges to cheat. Both are bad. But surely you understand why one should be punished more severely than the other.

Was the CSGO lotto site cheating? Did they alter the algorithms in a way that resulted in them winning all the time? Did they actually make money by defrauding other players? Cuz I'm pretty sure that the FTC would have looked into that. Once they were busted for non-disclosure, any sensible investigation would have sought to uncover their motive. So I'm sure they all got a look at the code.


Does not follow...

I suggested to you, that if a law has been broken, to report it to law enforcement. What does this have to do with disputing laws?

It sounds like you're just miffed that the legal definition of gambling doesn't exactly fit this CSGO lotto site because they used a slippery loophole where you don't actually have to pay to play. I think that according to your own personal specific 'eyeball test', it's gambling. And because your eyeballs say it's gambling, you expect the law to conform to your preferred interpretation.

Good luck with that.


Puh-leeeze! I've walked into a room where two of my three kids are crying and the other one is sitting there pretending like nothing is going on. And I"m like "what did you do to your sisters?" Then she says "nothing"

lol.....20 years.....el oh fucking el.

They're kids Jack. Chill the fuck out.

ITT I learned 25-year olds with clear malicious intent are kids. Good to know

[Jack Sawyer]

Oh, I didn't really see this one

No one is disputing the dishonesty. What seems to be in dispute...is the man's intent. You see "sinister villain". I see "idiot".

That's a lot of discrepancy there. Not as a comparison obviously, but I just wonder what you think about Bernie Madoff. A misunderstood idiot, perhaps?