Capitalism Rules, Socialism and Communism Suck Thread

[Poopadoop]

You are missing the point by miles man. The fisherman's problem isn't a lack of wanting things....it's a lack of wanting meaning

The problem is your inability to appreciate his idea of meaning, or more generally the idea that anyone can differ from you without meaning there's something wrong with them in the head.

[BananaStand]

The problem is your inability to appreciate his idea of meaning, or more generally the idea that anyone can differ from you without meaning there's something wrong with them in the head.

Wrong. He's over-appreciating his own idea of meaning.

It's really not a subjective opinion to say that the fisherman's life of lazy indulgence is not a good thing.

Ask any clinical psychologist you can find: "What would you say if a patient came into your office and told you that he spends every day doing the minimum amount of labor, napping, and then getting drunk every night?"

Their answer will probably contain the word "depression".

[Poopadoop]

Wrong. He's over-appreciating his own idea of meaning.

It's really not a subjective opinion to say that the fisherman's life of lazy indulgence is not a good thing.

Ask any clinical psychologist you can find: "What would you say if a patient came into your office and told you that he spends every day doing the minimum amount of labor, napping, and then getting drunk every night?"

Their answer will probably contain the word "depression".

Pretty sure that's not how depression is diagnosed. I'm pretty sure the person saying they're happy pretty much rules out that diagnosis.



Apart from that you just confirmed my point 100 %.

"I wouldn't be happy living that way, so neither can anyone else. Must be something wrong with that guy"

[BananaStand]

Pretty sure that's not how depression is diagnosed.

Yeah, irl a depression diagnosis probably more closely resembles a drug-deal.

I'm pretty sure the person saying they're happy pretty much rules out that diagnosis.

When did the fisherman say he was happy?

"I wouldn't be happy living that way, so neither can anyone else. Must be something wrong with that guy"

I suppose I can see how you can interpret what I said as that. Though you have to put some effort to get there. Not sure why that's you're aim.

Anyway, if I misled you by conflating happiness with meaning, then I stand corrected.

Let's get away from the term "happiness" as that a rabbit hole I don't wanna go down. It could be merely "joy" at getting a blowjob, or it could be satisfaction from fulfilling some existential purpose. And there is a whole spectrum in between.

I'll rephrase my assertion. Meaning occurs at the intersection of order and chaos.

The fisherman, insulated by order and far removed from the point of intersection, is living a life with no meaning.

Or...at least that's how he's portrayed in the story. Perhaps the songs he sings while drunk with his buddies are meaningful and well loved by the community that comes to hear him sing. Perhaps they find his lyrics inspirational and are compelled to live better lives.

In that case, the community is in chaos and then brought to a slightly higher level of order through song. The fisherman finds meaning by existing at that intersection. So I guess you could say that 'meaning' is the change you impose on the world.

It could be said then, that the fisherman would have greater meaning if he partnered with teh businessman to rent a recording studio, produce and album, and distribute to more people. The order in his songs spreads more broadly through the chaos of the world. More lives are affected. Greater change. Greater meaning.

Getting back to fishing now...the businessman is offering the fisherman meaning. By growing his business he is employing other people, and feeding many families. That has meaning. Or maybe he has a business that he can pass down to his children. That also has meaning as it affects the state of the world. The world is changed because the fisherman lived.

None of that is possible if the fisherman just shrugs and says "Fuck it, I'm doing alright and having fun"

And that's bad.

[Poopadoop]

yea tl;dr

The convo was about happiness; do you remember that?

If you want to have a convo about 'meaning' maybe don't try to start it in the middle of a convo about happiness.

The fisherman also doesn't gaf about you or your taoist concepts of meaning or yin and yang or chaos and order. Same with a lot of people in Finland I guess.

[BananaStand]

yea tl;dr

The convo was about happiness; do you remember that?

If you want to have a convo about 'meaning' maybe don't try to start it in the middle of a convo about happiness.

The fisherman also doesn't gaf about you or your taoist concepts of meaning or yin and yang or chaos and order. Same with a lot of people in Finland I guess.

From you, this is the closest thing to a concession that I could ever hope for.

[Poopadoop]

This is the closest thing to a concession that I could ever hope for from you.

Or maybe I don't think I can learn much about meaning from someone who acts the way you do.

[Poopadoop]

Yeah, irl a depression diagnosis probably more closely resembles a drug-deal.

Maybe for some patients the therapist would just prefer to give them drugs than have to talk to them every week. Such a person might then conclude it's a form of drug-dealing I guess.

[BananaStand]

Maybe for some patients the therapist would just prefer to give them drugs than have to talk to them every week. Such a person might then conclude it's a form of drug-dealing I guess.

I thought we weren't allowed to switch subjects mid-thread? Who decides what we're talking about around here anyway?

Regardless, this is a rabbit hole I'm happy to go down.

Psychiatrists = drug dealers.

Discuss....

[Poopadoop]

Ask any clinical psychologist you can find: "What would you say if a patient came into your office and told you that he spends every day doing the minimum amount of labor, napping, and then getting drunk every night?"

Lol, i spent an entire summer doing this when i was 18. Some of the happiest days of my life. Never felt the need to go for therapy.

Again, happiness is subjective. Just cause you hate having fun and being lazy doesn't mean everyone else does (or should) too.

[BananaStand]

Lol, i spent an entire summer doing this when i was 18. Some of the happiest days of my life.

Were those days meaningful? Is the world changed by you having lived those days?

Again, happiness is subjective. Just cause you hate having fun and being lazy doesn't mean everyone else does (or should) too.

Again, let's drop the term "happiness", and use the term "meaning". Goalpost moved.