Convicts and College

[Stacks]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...e=search_story

Today in Corrections class we were shown this video, and a discussion ensued. How do you all feel about prisoners, serving a sentence for crimes such as murder and rape, being given the chance to gain a higher education in this manner?? How does it make you feel that these individuals are receiving their education with funding from a private organization, while there are so many other individuals who haven't committed crimes that are struggling to go to college, and are forced to take out loans that they will have to pay back in the future?

A few individuals in the class believed that it was wrong to allow criminals to do things such as study and attend class while incarcerated because they committed a crime and this is supposed to be punishment. That the individuals should serve their sentence, get out, and then try to better themselves. Others believed it's best to let them better themselves while incarcerated, and that with a program such as the above we are at least reforming some individuals that we would not have otherwise.

Thoughts?

[sil693]

if they're in there for murder/rape then just put them all in a big room together, and leave them be. fuck feeding them etc, fuck how much room they have, fuck giving them toilets/showers.

happy days.

also i think it sucks, im at uni and im paying out the arse for it. i should just rape someone and WHEEEEEEEEE no monies out of my wallet.

[bode]

there are pro's, but more con's imo

[Stacks]

The only con I see is how the money issue is handled. Obviously, being a college student and having to take out loans to do so, I don't want individuals who have done crimes get the same opportunity as me, while paying nothing for it. But tbh I feel the same way about individuals who just cruised through high school getting the lowest grade possible, and who did subpar on the ACT/SAT, yet get grants, etc. that i'm not available for simply because their parents make less money than mine (even though my parents aren't contributing towards my education).

I believe that allowing individuals to better themselves while in prison makes it much easier and more ideal from them, and the rest of society, once their imprisonment is over and they begin to intergrate back into society. In which time we will expect, or at least hope, they contribute in some way. And by bettering them through education, the chances they don't fall back into a life of crime are reduced.

[bode]

The only con I see is how the money issue is handled. Obviously, being a college student and having to take out loans to do so, I don't want individuals who have done crimes get the same opportunity as me, while paying nothing for it. But tbh I feel the same way about individuals who just cruised through high school getting the lowest grade possible, and who did subpar on the ACT/SAT, yet get grants, etc. that i'm not available for simply because their parents make less money than mine (even though my parents aren't contributing towards my education).

I believe that allowing individuals to better themselves while in prison makes it much easier and more ideal from them, and the rest of society, once their imprisonment is over and they begin to intergrate back into society. In which time we will expect, or at least hope, they contribute in some way. And by bettering them through education, the chances they don't fall back into a life of crime are reduced.

fwiw i completely agree with this

[ProZachNation]

If a private organization wants to fund prisoners getting an education really nothing we can do.

[JKDS]

yes, but who will higher a convicted murderer/rapist even if he did haev a college degree?

[Lukie]

The only con I see is how the money issue is handled. Obviously, being a college student and having to take out loans to do so, I don't want individuals who have done crimes get the same opportunity as me, while paying nothing for it. But tbh I feel the same way about individuals who just cruised through high school getting the lowest grade possible, and who did subpar on the ACT/SAT, yet get grants, etc. that i'm not available for simply because their parents make less money than mine (even though my parents aren't contributing towards my education).

This is so true. I never really quite understood how you could punish a kid because his or her parents saved money or have a good job. 18, adult, independence, etc..

[The_OG_Rocco]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...e=search_story

Today in Corrections class we were shown this video, and a discussion ensued. How do you all feel about prisoners, serving a sentence for crimes such as murder and rape, being given the chance to gain a higher education in this manner??
Thoughts?

We should do what China would do to all Murderers, Rapists and Pedophiles. Shoot them dead and then charge the offenders family for both the trial and the bullet. Simple yet very effective. You cannot rehabilitate a scumbag like a rapist or a pedophile.
Please stop wasting our Tax Dollars on these lowlifes. Tax dollars that can be better spent on orphaned children, injured war veterans and other such good causes.

[Stacks]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...e=search_story

Today in Corrections class we were shown this video, and a discussion ensued. How do you all feel about prisoners, serving a sentence for crimes such as murder and rape, being given the chance to gain a higher education in this manner??
Thoughts?

We should do what China would do to all Murderers, Rapists and Pedophiles. Shoot them dead and then charge the offenders family for both the trial and the bullet. Simple yet very effective. You cannot rehabilitate a scumbag like a rapist or a pedophile.
Please stop wasting our Tax Dollars on these lowlifes. Tax dollars that can be better spent on orphaned children, injured war veterans and other such good causes.

I'm not so sure about this tbh. I'm a supporter of capital punishment if we are certain that the convicted individual is 100%, without a doubt, the individual that committed the murder, rape, etc. But we have yet found a way that makes it that accurate in most instances. I mean, as we speak, there are people on death row that didn't commit the crime they are convicted of. It happens. Which is really shitty. But at least you didn't take the life of an innocent individual. I mean you could argue that incarceration for life is the equivalent of a death sentence because rights and freedoms have been revoked, but it's not imho.

But sure, if we can be certain that the individual committed the crime, and there was no need for the action (to weed out the cases where it was self-defense etc), then I wouldn't have any regrets sentencing such an individual to death. And I agree that a simple shooting would be more effective, and cost friendly, than many of the means we use or have used.

However, I don't think it would deter crime.

[ProZachNation]

The problem with the death penalty is that innocent people are convicted of crimes. When we kill an innocent person we become murderers.

""Wrongful execution" is a miscarriage of justice occurring when an innocent person is put to death by capital punishment.[26] Many people have been heralded as innocent victims of the death penalty.[27][28][29] At least 39 executions have been carried out in the U.S. in face of compelling evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt.[30] Newly-available DNA evidence has allowed the exoneration of more than 15 death row inmates since 1992 in the U.S.,[31] but DNA evidence is only available in a fraction of capital cases. In the UK, reviews prompted by the Criminal Cases Review Commission have resulted in one pardon and three exonerations with compensation paid for people executed between 1950 and 1953, when the execution rate in England and Wales averaged 17 per year."

So if not for DNA evidence we would have executed 15 victims for sure that were innocent... Pretty clear that we have or will execute an innocent person.

Furthermore the death penalty does not reduce crime.

Now if they catch a guy who raped and murdered a child, there were witnesses who saw him do it there is concrete evidence he did it, shit kill him.

Bullshit with Penn and Teller did a very good show on the death penalty worth watching for anyone who is pro or anti death penalty.

[gabe]

i think its a good thing for everyone to get as much education as possible

[ProZachNation]

i think its a good thing for everyone to get as much education as possible

[ATOTHEC101]

We should do what China would do to all Murderers, Rapists and Pedophiles. Shoot them dead and then charge the offenders family for both the trial and the bullet. Simple yet very effective. You cannot rehabilitate a scumbag like a rapist or a pedophile.
Please stop wasting our Tax Dollars on these lowlifes. Tax dollars that can be better spent on orphaned children, injured war veterans and other such good causes.[/quote]

This

[pgil]

state sanctioned murder is still murder.

The death penalty does not fulfill it's supposed role as a general deterrent. It does not send a good message to society in general either, that violence can only be solved by violence.

I am always surprised when a conservative tells me they are for the death penalty. I am pretty far to the left, and I don't trust the government to deliver mail properly, so there is no way in hell I want them to have the power to kill someone.

[killerkebab]

I thought most crimes were committed not because the deterrent is too small, but because the criminal genuinely believes he won't be caught.

No use saying you'll execute the guy if he doesn't think you'll find him in the first place. As for educating convicts, I'm all for it. Prison isn't about punishment, it is mainly about rehabilitation - after all if it was only about punishment we'd just kill every criminal going.

[Stacks]

I'm all for educating criminals as well. I was the individual who stated that while they are serving their "time" and "repaying their debt to society", it is our governments duty to set forth ways in which they can correct their unlawful ways, and reform. And that education is a great way. Even if only a small group of individuals take part in these educational programs and succeed, that is still individuals that have been reached, and have a greater chance at a successful rehabilitation, than it would have been otherwise.

However, as stated the only problem I see is how they are being given this equal opportunity chance of getting a secondary education, with no expenses being thrown their way. I would have no problem if the convicts were forced to take out loans in order to attend classes, or at least held accountable in some way.

I understand what JKDS was saying about how no individual would hire them anyways, which in general is probably true. But I'm not trying to look at education as a means of obtainng a better job, which would pay higher dividends, etc. But instead looking at it in a sense of bettering the individual solely as a person, and changing the way they think/react. I'm of the group that believes education is highly valueable and surely worth it even if there wasn't anything to gain other than knowledge. Well these convicts are gaining the knowledge that a large group of individuals seek, while not having to pay for it in the process. Therefore, while the private organization could fund for law-abiding citizens, instead they fund of law-breaking convicts. That is my only hang-up.

And as ProZach said, we are pretty much shit out of luck if a private organization wishes to fund this. And this is true. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on the matter is.

[Ragnar4]

I think the root of the matter is this:

Will a convicted criminal use his newfound knowledge to pull himself up by the bootstraps and engage in contributing to society afterwards?

Or will he dedicate his time to learn how to become a better criminal?

Because when it comes right down to it. People who waste their time in jail, spending all day being Bubba's new girlfriend, and playing poker for smokes, will most definitely have a 95% recidivism rate.

I honestly believe that our only option is to educate society. Some of guys in prison are there because they lack the mental capacity to move forward with their lives beyond 15 year old thuggery. I also, don't see any problem with charging them tuition for the education they receive.

[flomo]

i think its a good thing for everyone to get as much education as possible

i agree




and as for capital punishment, i'm for killing at both ends
kill unwanted babies(abortion)
and kill scumbags(capital punishment)

[The_OG_Rocco]

i think its a good thing for everyone to get as much education as possible

i agree
and as for capital punishment, i'm for killing at both ends
kill unwanted babies(abortion)
and kill scumbags(capital punishment)

''Killing'' and ''Murder'' are two different things people. That's why they are spelled differently.
To 'kill' an attacker or a violent criminal is justified.
To 'murder' an innocent person or child is not justified.

Do I now need to give you folks the definition of the words; Justified and Justice? Or can we all comprehend any of this stuff? Jeeeezuz!