Dat inequality

[Renton]

I'm not trying to say you are. I'm just trying to dispel the notion that innovation is somehow separate from capitalism.

Great minds are going to think of great shit in the absence of a monetary incentive, but it still takes capital to realize ideas, and I think that's where capitalism really becomes indispensable. And this is the area were we can really postulate the huge opportunity costs incurred by states. If all the money that went to wars over the last 50 years instead went to private sector innovation, we may have invented teleportation by now, who knows?

[CoccoBill]

If all the money that went to wars over the last 50 years instead went to private sector innovation, we may have invented teleportation by now, who knows?

Quite possibly, but you're not saying "wars" only happen when there are governments, or that having governments equals wars, right? Local skirmishes, from what I've been told, where much more frequent before governments and laws.

[wufwugy]

Quite possibly, but you're not saying "wars" only happen when there are governments, or that having governments equals wars, right? Local skirmishes, from what I've been told, where much more frequent before governments and laws.

I think the best we can get now is a government that enforces strong security from foreign powers. But we're also seeing how this is becoming less necessary. A great example is how Putin backed down due to economic reasons. Because of economic reasons, US and Britain will never again invade Germany, and at some time in the future we'll be able to say that about every country.

[Savy]

I'm not trying to say you are. I'm just trying to dispel the notion that innovation is somehow separate from capitalism.

Great minds are going to think of great shit in the absence of a monetary incentive, but it still takes capital to realize ideas, and I think that's where capitalism really becomes indispensable. And this is the area were we can really postulate the huge opportunity costs incurred by states. If all the money that went to wars over the last 50 years instead went to private sector innovation, we may have invented teleportation by now, who knows?

It's actually been shown that throwing money at innovation and invention doesn't work. In fact it tends to have the opposite effect. If you mean that the culture and facilities would be there to nurture innovation and invention more then maybe but I'm not really sure this would be the case..

source - yaawn in irc chat a couple of months ago

[Renton]

It's actually been shown that throwing money at innovation and invention doesn't work. In fact it tends to have the opposite effect. If you mean that the culture and facilities would be there to nurture innovation and invention more then maybe but I'm not really sure this would be the case..

source - yaawn in irc chat a couple of months ago

You're correct that it doesn't work when governments throw money at research, this can be seen clearly with the failed efforts around the world at promoting alternative energy. But when people with entrepreneurial savvy throw their money at an innovation, it works really really well.

[jackvance]

You're correct that it doesn't work when governments throw money at research, this can be seen clearly with the failed efforts around the world at promoting alternative energy. But when people with entrepreneurial savvy throw their money at an innovation, it works really really well.

But governments who fund research are quite essential too because they all add to the knowledge pool that everyone taps from, by the design of how science is conducted. It is true that it won't lead directly to commercial application but a lot of research can be done that would otherwise not be done. A lot of government funding flows directly to universities and doctorate students as well - here in Belgium at least, I assume it's the same everywhere and I know of several instances where it led to spin-offs and companies.

Another interesting matter I find is how we can first see technologically advanced applications in specific industrial areas which, when perfected, comes to mass consumption. One of the most famous examples is remote controls and microwave ovens. They came from NASA research and the space exploration and moonlanding attempts. And I believe the same thing is happening as we speak in another field: 3D printing. These have already grown beyond printing mere plastic, spaceflight and aviation already strongly use 3D printers to print metal components in any shape you want with no need for welding. Same in medical sciences, which use 3D printing for stuff like hearing aids (over 1 million sold in the US that have been printed in metal), prosthetic limbs and even organs! 3D printing is also being used for food - to have astronauts print stuff like pizza's. It's already happening so if we see this as history repeating itself, in the next 10-20 years we can expect every household to get their own 3D printer to print whatever you want. One friend of mine is already reschooling himself in 3D Studio Max.

But this future prediction aside, I wouldn't dismiss governmental funding offhand because it doesn't lead directly to commercialisation. It usually goes through universities and they are directly connected to the industry in most cases and in general whatever the results, everyone benefits from them.