driving at 2am

[bigred]

I was ran over a raccoon. My car got rabies and I had to take it outback and shoot it. It was a sad time.

definitly in the running to become the funniest poster on FTR. And sarcasm doesn't count.

Why'd you have to go and say a thing like this? He won't shut up now!

Now?

[Irisheyes]

See what I mean?

[alias2211]

ok so fuck the ants that are stealing from you.. how about if you step on a bug, or back to the bug hitting the windshield example.

the difference is that the dog is a sentient animal whereas the bug is not.

if you express remorse for the fact that you injured the bug, it is for your sake alone, since the bug cannot feel comfort from anything you do. some religions and cultures would be inclined to exhibit compassion towards this bug while others would not.

if you do not express remorse for the fact that you injured the dog, you are leaving another living being - one that is aware of its pain, agony and terror - alone to die a cruel and unusual death. there is more compassion in backing up over the dog to make sure it's dead than there is in simply driving away.

the least you could have done was call 911 to alert the agencies with the skill and authority to give the dog proper attention. doing nothing is the worst option.

[Greedo017]

if you express remorse for the fact that you injured the bug, it is for your sake alone, since the bug cannot feel comfort from anything you do.

link? bugs feel pain just like anything else, they're just too small and too numerous for us to care. Do you fish?

[Greedo017]

Greedo, bring back the weird Green Thingy.

[bigred]

[Irisheyes]

Greedo, bring back the weird Green Thingy.

Should we stop if we hit one of these bad boys?

[Greedo017]

me and bigred were talking, we think its a penis with a penis, so i'm there

[alias2211]

link? bugs feel pain just like anything else, they're just too small and too numerous for us to care. Do you fish?

no i do not fish.

let's get our semantics in line: 'pain' is the subjective mammalistic experience that happens as the result of instinctual neurological response to external stimulae. step on a george forman grill after breakfast in bed, and you'll tear your foot off the hot surface before you decide to commit that action in a self-aware manner. there are humans that have neurological disorders that rob them of this protective reaction, perhaps you have seen the people who can stick forks in their legs and stuff, but these same people are able to experience the terror of 'fear' in different situations, like being in a convenience store while it's being robbed.

invertebrae also experience these same natural responses to stimulae, but they are not 'aware' of it in the same way that mammals are. is this 'pain' in the same sense that mammals experience it? i don't think so, but it's almost impossible to prove.

http://www.enature.com/expert/expert...stionID=20796/

http://dels.nas.edu/ilar_n/ilarjourn...Question.shtml

[ItDepends]

We used to chase and kill rabbits when we were young. Does this make me a bad person?

[mrhappy333]

how about shooting frogs with a BB gun?

[EricE]

How about popping the kittens necks because the damn cat had too many kittens again. +EV?

(Apparently my parents were too cheap to spring for a spaying)

[mrhappy333]

how about taking the cat for a ride and dropping them off in an apartement complex somewhere? +EV?

[ItDepends]

How about popping the kittens necks because the damn cat had too many kittens again. +EV?

(Apparently my parents were too cheap to spring for a spaying)

ev+ for sure

[ensign_lee]

Now that we're on the subject of Ensign Lee there's something I've been wondering for at least a year now. Who is Cameron and why are you friends with a five year old?

Hahahahaha. I never thought when I wrote that that somebody would think that my buddy was STILL 5.

He's 20 now. He's one of my best buddies. When he was 5, he did this. His mom told everyone this story during dinner one time and I thought it was hilarious.

I'd turned sig's off, so I completely forgot about it. Hahaha.

[ensign_lee]

How about popping the kittens necks because the damn cat had too many kittens again. +EV?

(Apparently my parents were too cheap to spring for a spaying)

Very negative expected morality...

[Warpe]

We used to chase and kill rabbits when we were young. Does this make me a bad person?

No, it makes you a dog. Stay off the roads at night.

[Greedo017]

alias - bugs have nerve cords. I assume that nerve cords have the same function in humans as they have always had in every other creature. Just because a grasshopper doesn't duck and cover after I rip its leg off isn't sufficient to assume it isn't feeling pain. A large part of the human response to pain is learned - not instinctive, and I don't think we can generalize that our reaction is the only appropriate one, especially to a creature that might not even be intelligent enough to realize that when something rips its leg off it should protect its leg.

Your first link didn't work, your second one more explores the idea than anything else. In fact it says this in one place, "The well-being of invertebrates used for research is being taken increasingly seriously. Wigglesworth (1980), for example, has suggested that for practical purposes it should be assumed that insects feel pain and that they should, therefore, be narcotized in procedures that have the potential to cause pain".

Another example is that if you shock an animal it will demonstrate a memory. For example aplysia have basically a couple "limbs" sticking out. If you shock one it will pull it back in, and next time you touch it even without shock, it will jerk that "limb" back in extra hard clearly demonstrating memory. Why is it showing "fear" of the shock if it didn't find it unpleasant? Sure, none of this is conclusive, but its a lot more likely that I am right and a cricket getting its leg ripped off hurts it, than that it doesn't, just by common sense.

[Rabid Dog]

One time I was with my roommates dad driving to his farm to help him cut firewood and he hit a deer on the way there.. he got out and tried to see if it was okay.. deer tried to attack him so he got back in the car.. later that day he went back to check on the deer and it was dead on the side of the road... so he ate it.. the end

Illegal in the state I live in. If you hit a deer with an automobile you have to leave it there and are supposed to call the authorities. If you are caught picking up a dead deer from the side of the road you will be fined, if not worse.

[alias2211]

alias - bugs have nerve cords. I assume that nerve cords have the same function in humans as they have always had in every other creature. Just because a grasshopper doesn't duck and cover after I rip its leg off isn't sufficient to assume it isn't feeling pain. A large part of the human response to pain is learned - not instinctive, and I don't think we can generalize that our reaction is the only appropriate one, especially to a creature that might not even be intelligent enough to realize that when something rips its leg off it should protect its leg.

yes, a part of our subjective experience of pain is learned. but the part that gets your leg off the damn grill is all old brain nerve instinct, free of charge, and still most efficient for reaction. and that is more like what the bug response is like. your new brain instead focuses on communicating to others that you need assistance, and formulates a plan of avoiding that situation altogether in the future.

this is not a value judgement in favor of humans' awareness-added experience of pain, just clarifying the physiological response.

Your first link didn't work

fixed, sorry and thank you.

your second one more explores the idea than anything else. In fact it says this in one place, "The well-being of invertebrates used for research is being taken increasingly seriously. Wigglesworth (1980), for example, has suggested that for practical purposes it should be assumed that insects feel pain and that they should, therefore, be narcotized in procedures that have the potential to cause pain".

that assumption is not practical in nature, but ethical. it's more practical for scientists to be able to do anything they want with the test subjects. it's ethical for them to adapt their normal investigative process based on the belief that the insects do feel pain, even if there is no possible way to know for sure.

Another example is that if you shock an animal it will demonstrate a memory. For example aplysia have basically a couple "limbs" sticking out. If you shock one it will pull it back in, and next time you touch it even without shock, it will jerk that "limb" back in extra hard clearly demonstrating memory. Why is it showing "fear" of the shock if it didn't find it unpleasant?

only sentient animals can be afraid.

this is not memory as we experience it, either, and another example of how non-sentient beings and sentient animals differ fundamentally. for the aplysia it's mapped stimulae, that's it. the aplysia is not going to therapy to work on his fear of death after this incident.

the purposeful abuse of insects should not be tolerated any more or less than it would be against any other being. you don't owe the insect an apology, because it doesn't have feelings to be hurt in the first place. if you want to have a moment of silence for it, that is fine, but it's not going to know one way or the other. so if that is important to you in the construct of your belief framework, then do it, but realize first that it's for your own benefit and not helpful to the bug in any meaningful way.

but back to the matter at hand, i would encourage you to stop and assist the animal next time you find yourself in a similar situation. and if you don't feel up to it (rabid dog concerns, large animal like a deer, etc.) that is reasonable. but then at least call the authorities who might be able to offer the animal medical attention or a less painful death. just be aware that there might be a family out there - human or otherwise - that relies on that animal as a member.

[PO$$E$$ED]

but back to the matter at hand, i would encourage you to stop and assist the animal next time you find yourself in a similar situation. and if you don't feel up to it (rabid dog concerns, large animal like a deer, etc.) that is reasonable. but then at least call the authorities who might be able to offer the animal medical attention or a less painful death. just be aware that there might be a family out there - human or otherwise - that relies on that animal as a member.

[mrhappy333]

but back to the matter at hand, i would encourage you to stop and assist the animal next time you find yourself in a similar situation. and if you don't feel up to it (rabid dog concerns, large animal like a deer, etc.) that is reasonable. but then at least call the authorities who might be able to offer the animal medical attention or a less painful death. just be aware that there might be a family out there - human or otherwise - that relies on that animal as a member.

sounds reasonable........................................ ........................................

[Greedo017]

of course it is reasonable. i probably should've looped around and looked for it for a minute and if i saw it injured it probably would've meritted calling 911. i just doubt any of you would've done it if it was you.

[boost]

i carry, in my glove box, a beretta 92fs 9mm for putting holes in wounded animals hit by my car(and sometimes unwounded animals or street signs). i don't find a need to put the car in reverse to finish the job. and there are no witnesses.
God bless the USA.

cant own hand guns in chicago and a lot of suburbs around it, and you def cant carry it in your car

[flomo]

i carry, in my glove box, a beretta 92fs 9mm for putting holes in wounded animals hit by my car(and sometimes unwounded animals or street signs). i don't find a need to put the car in reverse to finish the job. and there are no witnesses.
God bless the USA.

cant own hand guns in chicago and a lot of suburbs around it, and you def cant carry it in your car

this chicago must be in holland or some other fag country
come to america and enjoy the freedom of owning guns and shooting stuff

[mrhappy333]

of course it is reasonable. i probably should've looped around and looked for it for a minute and if i saw it injured it probably would've meritted calling 911. i just doubt any of you would've done it if it was you.

I would have definetely turned around. Maybe to run it over again if it was really messed up. Or hit it over the head with the softball bat in my trunk.

[Galapogos]

Why would you call 911?? It is for life and death emergencies of people. You call them for a dog that has been hit you could be jeoprodizing a person's life. I think even Esign has to admit a person's life is more valuable than a dogs.

[Warpe]

All Dogs Go To Heaven. Just remember that.

[mrhappy333]

i carry, in my glove box, a beretta 92fs 9mm for putting holes in wounded animals hit by my car(and sometimes unwounded animals or street signs). i don't find a need to put the car in reverse to finish the job. and there are no witnesses.
God bless the USA.

cant own hand guns in chicago and a lot of suburbs around it, and you def cant carry it in your car

this chicago must be in holland or some other fag country
come to america and enjoy the freedom of owning guns and shooting stuff

[bode]

good bump

[tcpj4]

step on a george forman grill after breakfast in bed, and you'll tear your foot off the hot surface before you decide to commit that action in a self-aware manner.

haha, nice Office reference.

[mrhappy333]

This is one of my favorite threads, anything new?

[bigred]

I'm gonna run you over.

[mrhappy333]

then u can call me SpeedBump333
lol

[Greedo017]

i just got a new dog the other day here is a picture of me and the little fella isn't he cute.

[Lukie]

Jesus christ man, did you take an axe to his left leg or something before you put it out of it's misery for good?


So earlier I'm driving home and listening to WMMS on the radios (rock station, airs the browns football games). And inbetween songs, the voice on the radio says "here's a fun little fact, a cat will blink when struck with a hammer."

BTW I was going to put this awesomeness in my thread, but I figured I'd give you guys a treat.

[ProZachNation]

If this was a person, you'd still think the same thing? Yeah, I thought so.

Are we talking person as in my mom or a loved one...or prozach nation?

Case 1: If it was my mom, I'd definately call the authorities and do everything possible to save her.

Case 2: Prozach....shift the car into reverse and gun it, shift into drive, gun it...rinse and repeat.

About the hippy thing, I hope you can tell my loving sarcastic remarks from my hateful ones. That was a loving, joke one.

wtf Im gona forever, and you still love me enough tgo post about me?!

And Im back. Not that anyone cares.

[givememyleg]

If this was a person, you'd still think the same thing? Yeah, I thought so.

Are we talking person as in my mom or a loved one...or prozach nation?

Case 1: If it was my mom, I'd definately call the authorities and do everything possible to save her.

Case 2: Prozach....shift the car into reverse and gun it, shift into drive, gun it...rinse and repeat.

About the hippy thing, I hope you can tell my loving sarcastic remarks from my hateful ones. That was a loving, joke one.

wtf Im gona forever, and you still love me enough tgo post about me?!

And Im back. Not that anyone cares.

lies

[Numbr2intheWorld]

why'd in god's name did you bump this.

[lolzzz_321]

I bumped the Open Letter to FTR post then about a min later I get pure pwnage pm from Xianti.

[EzDuzIt]

since this got bumped for some reason