**** Elections thread *****

[Poopadoop]

Now I remember why I don't take this kind of shit seriously.

[wufwugy]

Now I remember why I don't take this kind of shit seriously.

It's not all noise, but yeah you have to treat it like it's wrong 90% of the time.

[wufwugy]

The "pizza" thing is interesting. The Alex Jones crowd thinks that's code for child molestation, but it looks much more to me like it's about prostitutes.

[Poopadoop]

Lol.

[Savy]

The "pizza" thing is interesting. The Alex Jones crowd thinks that's code for child molestation, but it looks much more to me like it's about prostitutes.

Tbf I don't know how much the US press gets about what goes on over here but I think it's a given that anyone with any sort of power fucks children. They just don't let it get out until the next lot of people are in so they can be like "yeah x is a cunt but at least he didn't fuck kids like y" until you know we find out about it when z is in charge.

[OngBonga]

You literally said they should so x or nothing at all. At least read your own posts, I know it's not fun.

You literally take me too literally.

I said protest about the method of democracy or go home. Words to that effect. The "go home" is not an order, it's a throw away comment that basically means they are wasting their time. You can take it how you like, but if you think that's me telling anyone anything, then you're taking me too literally. It's not like they are actually reading my comments.

I'm not going to start using caveats like "I suggest..." or "these people should..." just to make it easier for you people to figure out what I'm saying. It's up to you to read between the lines. If you don't, well then you're going to continue to take my comments out of context.

[wufwugy]

I'd love to watch a movie with this sort of premise: a crazy American vet and a suave British gentleman team up to beat up all the bad guys. Makes me lol. Plus it's awesome. Call it Rambo and Bond Make Everything Great Again.

[Poopadoop]

Tbf I don't know how much the US press gets about what goes on over here but I think it's a given that anyone with any sort of power fucks children.

Headasplode.jpg

[wufwugy]

Tbf I don't know how much the US press gets about what goes on over here but I think it's a given that anyone with any sort of power fucks children. They just don't let it get out until the next lot of people are in so they can be like "yeah x is a cunt but at least he didn't fuck kids like y" until you know we find out about it when z is in charge.

I've heard tell that there was some huge pedo ring bust in the UK government. True?

[Savy]

You literally take me too literally.

I said protest about the method of democracy or go home. Words to that effect. The "go home" is not an order, it's a throw away comment that basically means they are wasting their time. You can take it how you like, but if you think that's me telling anyone anything, then you're taking me too literally. It's not like they are actually reading my comments.

I'm not going to start using caveats like "I suggest..." or "these people should..." just to make it easier for you people to figure out what I'm saying. It's up to you to read between the lines. If you don't, well then you're going to continue to take my comments out of context.

Literally as in literally or metaphorically?

Protests are almost always a waste of time from mental people moaning about something they don't understand. That isn't the point. Someone once said something along the lines of "I couldn't care less what Katie Price has to say about anything, in fact I probably disagree with a lot of I'd die for her right to do so". The freedom to write and say what you think, to talk about ideas is vastly important.

[Savy]

I've heard tell that there was some huge pedo ring bust in the UK government. True?

Every tv personality, monarchy('s extended relatives), MPs. They're all at it. But not even that level of power only just any sort of power.

The thing you're talking about is probably about the labour MP, who was heading enquiries into important issues and it turns out he was paying for sex parties with young men (not sure if illegally young) and doing loads of drugs.

[OngBonga]

Headasplode.jpg

How do you suppose Jimmy Savile gets away with his crimes until he's dead?

[Poopadoop]

The freedom to write and say what you think, to talk about ideas is vastly important.

Tbf to Ong, all he said was they were protesting over something stupid. Like if the election had been rigged, they would have had a reason to protest. But their protest was basically 'i didn't vote for him, therefore it's bullshit he won'. And sure they are free to say that, but it's still a stupid thing to say.

[Poopadoop]

How do you suppose Jimmy Savile gets away with his crimes until he's dead?

Satan?

[wufwugy]

Every tv personality, monarchy('s extended relatives), MPs. They're all at it. But not even that level of power only just any sort of power.

The thing you're talking about is probably about the labour MP, who was heading enquiries into important issues and it turns out he was paying for sex parties with young men (not sure if illegally young) and doing loads of drugs.

I'm guessing British humor.

[OngBonga]

Literally as in literally or metaphorically?

Protests are almost always a waste of time from mental people moaning about something they don't understand. That isn't the point. Someone once said something along the lines of "I couldn't care less what Katie Price has to say about anything, in fact I probably disagree with a lot of I'd die for her right to do so". The freedom to write and say what you think, to talk about ideas is vastly important.

Right. I mean I agree with you here. I don't mean to say that protesting shouldn't happen if I disagree with the message. But it's hard for me to get on board with those saying "fuck the democratic will of the people". We've been through this with Brexit, people moaning about a democratic event, trying to suggest that MP's should say "fuck you" to the people. That's what's happening with people protesting in America about Trump winning. They're saying "fuck democracy". While I acknowledge they have the right to do this, they are cunts for doing so. That's my point.

I'm not intending to say they shouldn't have that right, far from it.

[Savy]

How do you suppose Jimmy Savile gets away with his crimes until he's dead?

You seen the Theroux documentary on it? Seems like literally everyone knew he was doing it and no one could be arsed doing anything about it.

One scene where he is with a reporter who knew about it and she was like yeah but I couldn't risk my job and getting sued & I don't appreciate how you're trying to say that it's my fault, which he didn't say, just she realised how badly it sounded on her.

[OngBonga]

I'm guessing British humor.

He could be trolling me.

[OngBonga]

You seen the Theroux documentary on it? Seems like literally everyone knew he was doing it and no one could be arsed doing anything about it.

I don't think it was a case on not being arsed. He was protected.

[Savy]

I don't think it was a case on not being arsed. He was protected.

There were enough people with enough evidence to say some pretty damning things which would have resulted in him getting stopped. Newspapers didn't because of libel laws, victims didn't because he was a huge authority to the schools & hospitals, people who knew in schools and hospitals didn't say anything because he was basically bankrolling them. People at places like the BBC, journalists etc didn't say anything because he could end their careers.

[OngBonga]

imo, he didn't get exposed because he could've taken down a lot of prominent people in the process.

When you say this...

Every tv personality, monarchy('s extended relatives), MPs. They're all at it.

...you acknowledge just how high it goes (assuming you're being serious, of course). These are the people who were protecting him. There are victims who tried to blow the whistle, but they were frustrated by the police. The system was protecting him.

[Poopadoop]

imo, he didn't get exposed because he could've taken down a lot of prominent people in the process.

When you say this...

Every tv personality, monarchy('s extended relatives), MPs. They're all at it.

...you acknowledge just how high it goes (assuming you're being serious, of course). These are the people who were protecting him. There are victims who tried to blow the whistle, but they were frustrated by the police. The system was protecting him.

No, he's saying everyone in power is a pedo. Did you not read his first post on the topic?

Tbf I don't know how much the US press gets about what goes on over here but I think it's a given that anyone with any sort of power fucks children.

[OngBonga]

No, he's saying everyone in power is a pedo. Did you not read his first post on the topic?

And I'm saying that Sir Jimmy Fucking Savile would likely have been in a position to name many of these prominent paedos, hence the reason he was protected.

Savy is wrong when he says everyone in power is at it. It's just a lot of them.

[Poopadoop]

And I'm saying that Sir Jimmy Fucking Savile would likely have been in a position to name many of these prominent paedos, hence the reason he was protected.

Assuming those prominent pedos existed, he would have. But there's no evidence of that afaik. The reason he was protected isn't clear, and it could have had to do with a lot of other things. Like the fact that it would have ruined everyone's xmas to find out their favourite childhood star was a perv. Stuff like that.

Savy is wrong when he says everyone in power is at it. It's just a lot of them.

So it's ok now that his comment made my head aslode? Oh, that's a relief.

Of course I should be open to that idea, since I gave your Satanism conspiracy theory a chance. Mind you, your response to a request for evidence was basically to tell me to go find it myself.

[OngBonga]

Jesus, the Germans are living on another planet. I'm so glad we're cutting ties with these kind of morons.

Mr Schafer told The Times: "What changed is the likelihood of a speedy and preferential trade deal between the UK and US. Even before Tuesday the chances were rather low, now the hope for this kind of deal seems delusional."

He's trying to talk down trade links between the UK and USA, knowing it's now very likely, because it justifies our decision to leave. This is really bad news for the EU, because Britian will not suffer like they were hoping. These comments from Mr Schafer, whoever the fuck he is, are music to my ears.

We'll have free trade with USA within weeks of us actually leaving the EU. Of course we will. We'll need cheap imports, and USA will want a large consumer-driven export market such as the UK. The EU can do fuck all to stop it now.

[OngBonga]

Assuming those prominent pedos existed, he would have. But there's no evidence of that afaik. The reason he was protected isn't clear, and it could have had to do with a lot of other things. Like the fact that it would have ruined everyone's xmas to find out their favourite childhood star was a perv. Stuff like that.

There's plenty of evidence of people who have links to Savile. Rolf Harris for a start, who's now in prison. Then there's a dead Prime Minister, Edward Heath. They'll throw some people under the bus while they protect those who either know too much or are protected for another reason. People like Cliff Richard spring to mind. The police tried to go after him, but nothing will come of that. I'd say with 90% confidence that his name will be dragged through the mud when he's dead.

Of course I should be open to that idea, since I gave your Satanism conspiracy theory a chance. Mind you, your response to a request for evidence was basically to tell me to go find it myself.

Well yeah. If you give a shit, don't expect others to spoon feed you. There's evidence out there. Do you want to see it? Google is your friend.

[JimmyS1985]

I like the Trump people in this thread because they seem pretty intelligent compared to my stereotype, even if I did vote for Hillary.

(If you want to see my stereotype of a trump supporter watch this youtube video lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZdF3agiJ7Y)

Anyways, I'm not wealthy like you guys are, maybe I didn't try hard enough in life, thinking about working in the school system and working with children or teenagers to be honest.

My friend voted for Trump, he gave me one of the most compelling reasons ever. I can't fact check him, but I don't really have a reason to believe he's bullshitting me. He installs satelite dishes for $40-$50k a year. Well he's too rich to get subsidies for healthcare, and too poor to finance the healthcare on the exchange himself. So he just pays the god damn fine, which adds up to $200-$225 a month. Think about that, that's like getting a speeding ticket once a month from the Federal Government which it will spend on people who don't have a middle class job like he got, to get their healthcare.

Even still though, I like to study economic policies that worked/failed, and I'm really hoping that President Trump doesn't implement about 90% of what he said, but to be fair I strongly supported his plan to spend fuck tons of money on the infrastructure of this country, but his trade policies, while trade needs to be addressed, they sounded very likely to get us into massive trade wars with other countries.

Just in case, on my meager earnings, I wound up buying about $3,500 in market traded gold on Wallstreet yesterday as insurance in case the economy goes south. Add that to my $600 or so in physical silver that I own, I got some precious metal for insurance in case SHTF, a lot of economists predict if he does actually implement huge portions of the policies he said he would, it would result in a massive recession. I think it's ok now to doubt political pundits, and pollsters in light of this election, but I have a pretty high opinion of the economists.

For us poker players, we'll be fine though, poker is kind of a recession proof game.

[OngBonga]

JimmyS your name is really unfortunate.

[wufwugy]

The man gets it right:

[Poopadoop]

Well yeah. If you give a shit, don't expect others to spoon feed you. There's evidence out there. Do you want to see it? Google is your friend.

Well yeah, I don't give a shit. You're the one who thinks it's true, I think it's a joke. So you're the one who has to make a case, not me.

When you argue something and someone says 'where's the evidence?', and your answer is 'google', it basically means you don't even know yourself.

[OngBonga]

jimmy, it's interesting that you see trade wars with other nations. I don't. I see better trade between the UK and USA.

A trade war between USA and China, which I assume is the danger here, is not in China's interests any more than USA's. China have a fuckton of dollars in reserve. If the dollar collapses, it renders their investment worthless. China want to see strong trade between the two to maximise the value of the American debt they own.

[OngBonga]

Well yeah, I don't give a shit. You're the one who thinks it's true, I think it's a joke. So you're the one who has to make a case, not me.

When you argue something and someone says 'where's the evidence?', and your answer is 'google', it basically means you don't even know yourself.

It means I can't be arsed to spoon feed someone who doesn't care.

[Savy]

No, he's saying everyone in power is a pedo. Did you not read his first post on the topic?

I am obviously being very fastidious when I say that (sarcasm). I think when it comes to paedophiles I think there are obviously a lot of people messed up in the head who are attracted to children but the reason we see so much of it at a high level is because it's a taboo thing and they're more so getting off on their power & abuse of it than anything else. That explains much large rpercentage of paedophiles in places such as the catholic church compared to general populations.

imo, he didn't get exposed because he could've taken down a lot of prominent people in the process.
...you acknowledge just how high it goes (assuming you're being serious, of course). These are the people who were protecting him. There are victims who tried to blow the whistle, but they were frustrated by the police. The system was protecting him.

I agree with all of this yes. Maybe my phrased couldn't be arsed gives the wrong implications.

[Poopadoop]

It means I can't be arsed to spoon feed someone who doesn't care.

I'm happy to hear about the evidence, I just don't want to spend my time doing your homework for you.

[OngBonga]

Here you go poop...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv2GfVAwhoU

Straight in, no kissing, Bob Dylan saying he got where he is today by making a deal with the "chief commander".

Next up is some black chick literally saying "sign your name in blood, and a contract with the devil".

It's two hours long and part 1 of 2. If you make it through them both, fair play to you.

[Poopadoop]

I am obviously being very fastidious when I say that (sarcasm). I think when it comes to paedophiles I think there are obviously a lot of people messed up in the head who are attracted to children but the reason we see so much of it at a high level is because it's a taboo thing and they're more so getting off on their power & abuse of it than anything else. That explains much large rpercentage of paedophiles in places such as the catholic church compared to general populations.

Well ok that makes more sense. When you think about what a pedo needs to get off and get away with it, it comes down to a) access to kids; and b) the ability to keep the victims from talking (or at least from being believed). So naturally certain professions attract more than others.

[wufwugy]

Even still though, I like to study economic policies that worked/failed, and I'm really hoping that President Trump doesn't implement about 90% of what he said, but to be fair I strongly supported his plan to spend fuck tons of money on the infrastructure of this country, but his trade policies, while trade needs to be addressed, they sounded very likely to get us into massive trade wars with other countries

I don't think we're at risk of that. The details Trump has given wouldn't cause a trade war.

[Poopadoop]

Here you go poop...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv2GfVAwhoU

Straight in, no kissing, Bob Dylan saying he got where he is today by making a deal with the "chief commander".

Next up is some black chick literally saying "sign your name in blood, and a contract with the devil".

It's two hours long and part 1 of 2. If you make it through them both, fair play to you.

Ya I got one minute in and realised this is not evidence.

Fuck me, you just finished giving someone shit for taking you literally.

Edit: A music video with a triangle in it. Then showing stuff from movies ffs. Like Jack Black is evidence.

Ong, time to cut back on the weed man, seriously.

[OngBonga]

Ya I got one minute in and realised this is not evidence.

Fuck me, you just finished giving someone shit for taking you literally.

Ok, if confessions and admissions aren't evidence, I'll try to find you some main stream media articles to convince you. I might be some time.

[Savy]

Well ok that makes more sense. When you think about what a pedo needs to get off and get away with it, it comes down to a) access to kids; and b) the ability to keep the victims from talking (or at least from being believed). So naturally certain professions attract more than others.

Yeah there are multiple factors I just think the one you mention is true but a somewhat weaker explanation that gets mentioned. For the rich and powerful there are also things like well we do some fairly shady stuff we'd prefer people not to know about so when accepting new people into their groups they get them to get involved in some really fucked up shit so they all have some sort of fail safe and can't fuck each other over. Sadly I think that is somewhat too much of a solid thought out thing and is more of a byproduct of power just being something that fucks people up in the head.

[Savy]

Sorry I've really taken this thread off topic, I'll make it great again with this little gem.

Even though I think Bush is electorally quite strong, the time is ripe for a "surprise" nominee in the GOP, but I don't think any of the current big names can do it.

Whilst googling nostradamus to check on spelling I accidentally typed wufstradamus and got this.

Seriously can't be real...

Also you're only wufstradamus if you predicted that shit before it happened. If true, this leaves you as mildly-insightful-wugy.

Which really should be Wufs new username.

[Poopadoop]

Ok, if confessions and admissions aren't evidence, I'll try to find you some main stream media articles to convince you. I might be some time.

Well, first Bob Dylan referred to the "Great Commander" . That could also be God or whatever fucking weird space alien he saw when he was stoned one day. Or he could just be being mysterious cause he thinks it's cool. A lot of artists are pretty weird people.

Second, the black woman was speaking metaphorically about the kinds of sacrifices people have to make to get ahead as artists. You know, like the actress who has to fuck the producer to get a role. That's how I interpret that, not that you literally have to sign your allegiance in blood to the devil to get an album deal. Ffs.

[OngBonga]

They're all speaking metaphorically, one after the other. All four hours of it is metaphoric.

What does Bob mean by "I'm holding my hand up"? I guess he could be passing a spliff.

[wufwugy]

We don't have free trade. We have trade deals. Trump is not wrong when he says America is losing on trade.

Policies like penalizing American companies from moving to Mexico is probably a good thing. A kind of deal that needs to be made is one where in order for America to accept a certain quantity of immigration from Mexico, Mexico must change its laws and let Americans buy up the "restricted" property in Mexico. What we have now is American companies going to Mexico and Mexican labor going to America. What we want instead is a more free flow of both labor and capital in both directions. Mexico would benefit astronomically by allowing Americans to buy up property in the "restricted" zone. But Mexicans don't want this because they think it would dissolve national identity. Well, how do they think Americans feel about the national identity of 1/3rd of America being gradually dissolved into Mexican identity?

Everybody wants their nation to stay their nation but wants America to change. How many realize that it's because of the national identity of America that America has become so attractive to the rest of the world in the first place?

[OngBonga]

Everybody wants their nation to stay their nation but wants America to change. How many realize that it's because of the national identity of America that America has become so attractive to the rest of the world in the first place?

America hasn't been attractive to the rest of the world for the best part of two decades.

[Poopadoop]

They're all speaking metaphorically, one after the other. All four hours of it is metaphoric.

What does Bob mean by "I'm holding my hand up"? I guess he could be passing a spliff.

Well that's the problem then isn't it? If all you have are a bunch of people speaking in riddles that are all open to multiple interpretations then you don't have much.

Show me someone who comes out on the deathbed and says directly "I did it for Satan. Blood contract is in the bottom drawer" or some other thing, and they're not baked out of their head when they say it, I might buy it.

[JimmyS1985]

I don't think we're at risk of that. The details Trump has given wouldn't cause a trade war.

Renegotiating trade deals to more favor the American worker, I'm fine with that.

Here's the issue I have, specifically his tariffs. Because in 1930, they passed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (Ben Stein even talked about in the film Ferris Bueller's day off) and I believe it was widely regarded to be an economic disaster that hurt America and the rest of the world.

If he puts into law, 45% tariff on Chinese goods, and 35% tariff on Mexico's goods, he has no power to stop China from responding with their own tariff of American goods, and the same with Mexico. I'm pretty sure that would put all 3 of our economies into recession. Those policies specifically, also he's not popular with a lot of our allies, I basically got about $4,100 in precious metals now incase SHTF, usually if I ramp up my holdings in precious metals, it's because I'm worried about a recession.

Also deporting 6.8 million migrant workers, I would imagine the US Economy losing 6.8 million workers would heavily impact our economy as well, that was another reason I bought precious metal yesterday.

One last thought, we should all keep in mind our war with Japan, and entry into WWII stemmed from a major trade dispute between our two countries.

[Poopadoop]

I agree. Slapping a huge tariff on a trading partner is not going to work unless part of the plan is to never export to them yourself.

[Savy]

Why would you want to favour the american worker?

The reason places lose industry and jobs etc is because they can't compete. If the places that America has lost a lot of jobs to are so behind America in so many things why is it that they can't compete?

[Poopadoop]

Why would you want to favour the american worker?

Because their manufacturing industry is being undercut by cheap imports? At least I think that's the argument.

[wufwugy]

America hasn't been attractive to the rest of the world for the best part of two decades.

It's the most attractive country in the world, by far, and has been for a long time. Way more people wanna come to America than go anywhere else, and the reason is the economic dynamism and the culture that embraces that. Also, weather.

Other countries are attractive too. Like Britain. Just keep this one thing in mind: there's a reason people wanna leave their shitty countries and move to great countries. Shitty ideals make shitty countries. Great ideals make great ones.

[wufwugy]

Renegotiating trade deals to more favor the American worker, I'm fine with that.

Here's the issue I have, specifically his tariffs. Because in 1930, they passed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (Ben Stein even talked about in the film Ferris Bueller's day off) and I believe it was widely regarded to be an economic disaster that hurt America and the rest of the world.

If he puts into law, 45% tariff on Chinese goods, and 35% tariff on Mexico's goods, he has no power to stop China from responding with their own tariff of American goods, and the same with Mexico. I'm pretty sure that would put all 3 of our economies into recession. Those policies specifically, also he's not popular with a lot of our allies, I basically got about $4,100 in precious metals now incase SHTF, usually if I ramp up my holdings in precious metals, it's because I'm worried about a recession.

Also deporting 6.8 million migrant workers, I would imagine the US Economy losing 6.8 million workers would heavily impact our economy as well, that was another reason I bought precious metal yesterday.

One last thought, we should all keep in mind our war with Japan, and entry into WWII stemmed from a major trade dispute between our two countries.

Those policies are indeed terrible, like you say. Trump doesn't want to do those. Penalizing companies that make their nut in America then wanna move to a different country is not the same thing. Granted, the penalizing by itself can be called economically bad in pure microeconomics terms, but there are some other advantages regarding culture and stuff. It is probably a good idea to encourage domestic solutions before foreign ones.

[Savy]

Because their manufacturing industry is being undercut by cheap imports? At least I think that's the argument.

I edited my post before you read it so here is what I added.

The reason places lose industry and jobs etc is because they can't compete. If the places that America has lost a lot of jobs to are so behind America in so many things why is it that they can't compete?

The things that people do to try and help workers just make them less and less competitive and as a result everyone loses out. Yet no workers are getting behind the party that tries to make them competitive by taking away things like minimum wage, work related perks and benefits.

[wufwugy]

Why would you want to favour the american worker?

The reason places lose industry and jobs etc is because they can't compete. If the places that America has lost a lot of jobs to are so behind America in so many things why is it that they can't compete?

Yeah that's it. The protectionist types on trade overestimate what a change in trade policies could do for them. Yet, there are still things that can be done. The most important is actually deregulating domestic policies, but Trump never used that messaging since it does not sell. People instinctively think "deregulation" is bad even when it's good. So instead Trump used protectionist rhetoric. People instinctively love that shit even when it's bad.

[Poopadoop]

The things that people do to try and help workers just make them less and less competitive and as a result everyone loses out. Yet no workers are getting behind the party that tries to make them competitive by taking away things like minimum wage, work related perks and benefits.

Not sure what you mean. If a factory can pay someone $10 a day to work in China and it costs $100 a day in the US, they're better off going to China.

Penalizing companies for leaving seems like kind of a weird solution. First, the companies that stay will either have to lower their wages dramatically, or go bankrupt. Second, it will discourage companies from coming to the US since they'll know there's a price to pay if they want to leave some day.

[Savy]

Yeah that's it. The protectionist types on trade overestimate what a change in trade policies could do for them. Yet, there are still things that can be done. The most important is actually deregulating domestic policies, but Trump never used that messaging since it does not sell. People instinctively think "deregulation" is bad even when it's good. So instead Trump used protectionist rhetoric. People instinctively love that shit even when it's bad.

I'm not so fussed on the selling of ideas more so just wanting to talk about ideas in of themselves really.

This issue is just one that annoys me. In the UK we have a really big "buy local", "local produce", "made in britain" and people saying all this rhetoric. No, you should buy the best products. Let's say I can buy tomatoes from a local place where they aren't that great or get some imported from somewhere else where they are nice at the same price point when you're an idiot not to get the nice ones. The question should be why can they get them for the same price whilst one is great and the other is shit. What are we doing wrong and they doing right?

Unfortunately due to more and more concerns about the environment they benefit from token greenism from the general public.

Not sure what you mean. If a factory can pay someone $10 a day to work in China and it costs $100 a day in the US, they're better off going to China.

Penalizing companies for leaving seems like kind of a weird solution. First, the companies that stay will either have to lower their wages dramatically, or go bankrupt. Second, it will discourage companies from coming to the US since they'll know there's a price to pay if they want to leave some day.

Yes but why does it cost $10 in one place and $100 in another? Baring in mind all the ballache of cultural difference, moving production to another place, being further behind in technologies etc (not so much now I'm talking years and years ago).

If you can't compete you ask why, if there are valid reasons that you never will be able to then tough shit that's life you can't do it. If there aren't or there are ways to improve then do them. Don't say we'll just stop the other people to everyone's detriment (something I'm aware you aren't arguing for).

[wufwugy]

Penalizing companies for leaving seems like kind of a weird solution. First, the companies that stay will either have to lower their wages dramatically, or go bankrupt. Second, it will discourage companies from coming to the US since they'll know there's a price to pay if they want to leave some day.

The economics case certainly can be made that it's not a good solution. I don't disagree with that economics. I don't particularly like the solution, but I think an argument can be made that encouraging domestic solutions first makes the economy and society healthier overall to a great degree than foreign ones.

[JimmyS1985]

With so many unknowns, I don't think it's a bad idea to hold precious metals at this point in time. He did specifically say he would, or threaten to, put gigantic tariff's on Mexican and Chinese goods, as well as deporting 6.8 million migrant workers, I don't think there's enough unemployed to fill those jobs so they'll very likely disappear.

Also his tax policies, basically we're going to heavily invest in the wealthy, in hopes, that they'll spend it on normal people. I highly doubt that will happen.

I'd would recommend you guys consider purchasing precious metal too with so many unknowns.

Also if the Mexican people have any pride in themselves and their people, they won't be extorted by Trump and America, into paying for that $25 billion wall.


I go to Mexico every 6 weeks or so, I hope I'll still get a warm welcome from their people and businesses, in light of this election. I honestly consider ourselves lucky to have such great neighbors, south of the border.

[wufwugy]

I'm not so fussed on the selling of ideas more so just wanting to talk about ideas in of themselves really.

This issue is just one that annoys me. In the UK we have a really big "buy local", "local produce", "made in britain" and people saying all this rhetoric. No, you should buy the best products. Let's say I can buy tomatoes from a local place where they aren't that great or get some imported from somewhere else where they are nice at the same price point when you're an idiot not to get the nice ones. The question should be why can they get them for the same price whilst one is great and the other is shit. What are we doing wrong and they doing right?

Unfortunately due to more and more concerns about the environment they benefit from token greenism from the general public.

I certainly is an interesting problem to have.

I think the solutions come more from the production side. If a tech company can't simply hire Indian labor to replace its American labor to make greater profit by being able to lower prices and increase quantity output due to cheaper labor, it has to get a little more creative. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Also there are other effects that are not accounted for in productivity assessments. There are all sorts of ways that Americans working for American companies could benefit productivity over Indians working for American companies. One way is that the American probably has a greater sense of loyalty since if it fucks up, its his home fucking up; whereas the Indian, with loyalties and family and friends in India, might not do as well of a job in some ways.

[wufwugy]

Also his tax policies, basically we're going to heavily invest in the wealthy, in hopes, that they'll spend it on normal people. I highly doubt that will happen.

How so?

Much of the rhetoric about certain taxes benefiting the wealthy isn't true. One example is the corporate tax. It's paid for by consumers in the price of goods and services. Another is estate/death taxes, that kill family farms.

In addition, tax is one of the ways that the "we the people" part of the Constitution is undermined. The more the government taxes income and estates, the more it harms small, private entities.

[JimmyS1985]

family farms is one thing, but why is his estate tax repeal also benefitting people with over $20 billion in wealth? I mean they're not small family farms.

I mean why not just make an exception, if your estate exceeds something like $500 million, you start paying 55% or so for every dollar over $500 million. A tax free $500 million, I don't know anyone who would complain about that.

I'm just throwing numbers out btw, but we need to figure out a way to narrow the income/wealth gap, and if there's a better method to do that than increase taxes only on the wealthiest of the wealthy, I'd like to hear it.

[wufwugy]

family farms is one thing, but why is his estate tax repeal also benefitting people with over $20 billion in wealth? I mean they're not small family farms.

I mean why not just make an exception, if your estate exceeds something like $500 million, you start paying 55% or so for every dollar over $500 million. A tax free $500 million, I don't know anyone who would complain about that.

I'm just throwing numbers out btw, but we need to figure out a way to narrow the income/wealth gap, and if there's a better method to do that than increase taxes only on the wealthiest of the wealthy, I'd like to hear it.

Scott Adams has addressed this. He said that he would very likely stop working on his new projects if Hillary's estate tax plan was passed. And I believe him. The inputs to his estate has already been taxed at a pretty high rate; the estate tax, especially a high one, is just a great burden on top of all that.

Anyways, the reason it's important for somebody like Scott Adams to not be discouraged from working due to very high taxes is because they benefit society so much. He's working on an app that he thinks may one day be near the popularity level of Uber. This type of thing is relevant all over the place. We don't want to discourage production, but that's what high taxes do.

[wufwugy]

My life has benefited greatly from Scott Adams working. His book How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big is one of the best things I've read and has helped me and many, many others be happier and more productive. Taxing incomes at ~40% or whatever then taxing estates later at ~60% or whatever goes a long way to discouraging people from producing the types of things that benefit others.

[JimmyS1985]

Scott Adams has addressed this. He said that he would very likely stop working on his new projects if Hillary's estate tax plan was passed. And I believe him. The inputs to his estate has already been taxed at a pretty high rate; the estate tax, especially a high one, is just a great burden on top of all that.

Anyways, the reason it's important for somebody like Scott Adams to not be discouraged from working due to very high taxes is because they benefit society so much. He's working on an app that he thinks may one day be near the popularity level of Uber. This type of thing is relevant all over the place. We don't want to discourage production, but that's what high taxes do.

The problem with giving a tax cut to someone who already is flush with far more disposable income than your average person, is they're the quickest to run into "the law of diminishing marginal utility".

If you got $500 million tax free in an inheritance, you have enough money for you to never work, or your kids, kids, kids, to never work.

I don't think unbridled wealth is good for a society, or an economy. Most people who support these tax cuts argue on moral grounds, and perhaps shaky economic grounds, I argue purely on economic grounds however that heavily investing in our wealthy be alleviating them of their former tax burden, actually does damage to the country, and the economy.

If you pass a giant tax cut, it should not be financed with borrowed money from china and japan, in order to pay for it, if that's the case, than it's better for the strength of the nation, to have never been passed in the first place.

[wufwugy]

The problem with giving a tax cut to someone who already is flush with far more disposable income than your average person, is they're the quickest to run into "the law of diminishing marginal utility".

The individual will have diminishing marginal utility of their own consumption, but that isn't the only thing their wealth does. The "leftover" wealth is all savings (which is future consumption) and investment (which is what drives economic growth).

I argue purely on economic grounds however that heavily investing in our wealthy be alleviating them of their former tax burden, actually does damage to the country, and the economy.

On average, net taxation already comes from the wealthy. On average the poor and middle class pay less net tax (IIRC it's actually negative tax). Also, we should keep in mind that it's the private entities that created the wealth in the first place. We should not frame it as government having a duty to the proceeds created by citizens.

If you pass a giant tax cut, it should not be financed with borrowed money from china and japan, in order to pay for it, if that's the case, than it's better for the strength of the nation, to have never been passed in the first place.

I agree. Reform involves creating an economy that grows at a pace at least double what it has under Obama and drastically reducing welfare. Tax reductions can help the former but also can only be permanent as long as the latter doesn't outpace.

[JimmyS1985]

I forget how much CEO pay has gone up in the past 30 years, lets say I dunno, 700%? I'm throwing numbers out btw.

I think if the CEO gets a 700% pay raise in 30 years, I think the average worker or median household income should get a 700% pay raise in 30 years. You know an economy where everybody truly does benefit when the countries economy expands.

I disagree with the idea, that only CEO pay should go up, but your average worker's should remain stagnant, things of that nature. Or perhaps I should say median household income remains stagnant, to get rid of the extremities at both ends of the extremely poor, and extremely rich.

[wufwugy]

I forget how much CEO pay has gone up in the past 30 years, lets say I dunno, 700%? I'm throwing numbers out btw.

I think if the CEO gets a 700% pay raise in 30 years, I think the average worker or median household income should get a 700% pay raise in 30 years. You know an economy where everybody truly does benefit when the countries economy expands.

I disagree with the idea, that only CEO pay should go up, but your average worker's should remain stagnant, things of that nature. Or perhaps I should say median household income remains stagnant, to get rid of the extremities at both ends of the extremely poor, and extremely rich.

Wages and salaries at all levels reflect productivity pretty well. The faster rise at the top level compared to lower levels is a natural phenomenon that cannot be fixed with government policies. The government can make some difference, but it isn't through regulatory redistribution policies.

The common idea that it is wrong that CEO income growth is faster than others is itself wrong. CEO income growth rates have been pushed up by things like economies of scale. Differential incomes is not a sign of bad in an economy. The bad comes from regulatory, tax, and welfare policies that make it more necessary for companies to have things like economies of scale in order to function.

[wufwugy]

Here's a useful way of looking at it: triple everybody's income and it'll result in poverty eliminated and income inequality increased. Income inequality is a useless idea.

[JimmyS1985]

Wages and salaries at all levels reflect productivity pretty well. The faster rise at the top level compared to lower levels is a natural phenomenon that cannot be fixed with government policies. The government can make some difference, but it isn't through regulatory redistribution policies.

The common idea that it is wrong that CEO income growth is faster than others is itself wrong. CEO income growth rates have been pushed up by things like economies of scale. Differential incomes is not a sign of bad in an economy. The bad comes from regulatory, tax, and welfare policies that make it more necessary for companies to have things like economies of scale in order to function.

I'm reminded of the El Salvadoran Civil War, they had an economic system in place, that funneled 95% of the nations income to the wealthiest 2% of the population. This disparity helped fuel an extremely violent and brutal Civil War.

That's why I like watching that movie "Romero" it's about Catholic Bishop Oscar Romero in El Salvador who became a Martyr during the El Salvadoran Civil War, the wealthy people had him assassinated because he was helping out the poor masses too much, almost a Christ like character really.

I think he was Canonized by the Pope recently, which is a major step on the way to Sainthood.

[chemist]

Jesus, the Germans are living on another planet. I'm so glad we're cutting ties with these kind of morons.


He's trying to talk down trade links between the UK and USA, knowing it's now very likely, because it justifies our decision to leave. This is really bad news for the EU, because Britian will not suffer like they were hoping. These comments from Mr Schafer, whoever the fuck he is, are music to my ears.

We'll have free trade with USA within weeks of us actually leaving the EU. Of course we will. We'll need cheap imports, and USA will want a large consumer-driven export market such as the UK. The EU can do fuck all to stop it now.

You do realise the president-elect has about a billion dollars (yes that's right a billion dollars) of his own money invested in Scotland.
That's quite a few reasons for maintaining a good relationship. (not that personal interests would come before national duty of course).
BTW, The US is also the UK's largest export market, so significant trade goes both ways.
And you can't replace Harris Tweed with home spun nylon or slap a Rolls-Royce badge on a Chevrolet, though ironically the Jaguar is actually a badge on a Ford Scorpio.

[OngBonga]

BTW, The US is also the UK's largest export market, so significant trade goes both ways.

I think this depends if we're considering the EU as a single market or a group of markets. Our exports to Germany and France alone surpass our exports to USA, according to the first page I clicked off a google search. That said, our exports to the EU are decreasing while to the rest of the world they are increasing.

[wufwugy]

Trump is not wrong when he says US gets killed on trade. It's not too much because of differentiation in tariffs (there doesn't seem to be as much of that), but is mostly about differentiation in regulation. This is one reason why I'm skeptical about Trump being able to really fix trade. Fixing trade would mean deregulating industry domestically. But maybe it can be done. RGDP growth would skyrocket.

[wufwugy]

All Brits are now Trump supporters. https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/sta...8665968642?=01

If you disagree, you want God to not save the queen.

[Savy]

Thank fuck I fall into that group.

[wufwugy]

Yeah but it's opposite day.