Family calls shooting of car thief ‘senseless’

[mrhappy333]

Don't steal = Don't get shot

[Lukie]

Don't steal = Don't get shot

Yeah, burglary and grand theft auto are very high risk ventures.

Based on the attitude in this thread, it seems like those would be extremely profitable and low risk over in Euroland. Why shouldn't somebody smash into your house and take your money and jewelry if there is no real deterrent? Personally I think doing that is very wrong and wouldn't do it regardless, but there are a great many people in the world who would do much worse things for much less money. So what stops them?

[WillburForce]

Yeah, burglary and grand theft auto are very high risk ventures.

Based on the attitude in this thread, it seems like those would be extremely profitable and low risk over in Euroland. Why shouldn't somebody smash into your house and take your money and jewelry if there is no real deterrent? Personally I think doing that is very wrong and wouldn't do it regardless, but there are a great many people in the world who would do much worse things for much less money. So what stops them?

I would imagine our violent/murder home intrusions are one hell of a lot lower than yours.

[Lukie]

I would imagine our violent/murder home intrusions are one hell of a lot lower than yours.

Standard protocol here is that people who don't like guns compare violent crime stats between European countries (strict gun control) and USA (lax gun control).

People who shoot guns compare stats between Central American countries (strict gun control) vs USA (lax gun control)

Again there are tons of confounding variables which make the stats tell only part of the story at best. I know for a fact that homocide and firearm death is higher in the US than the UK; you don't need to tell me that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

[WillburForce]

Standard protocol here is that people who don't like guns compare violent crime stats between European countries (strict gun control) and USA (lax gun control).

People who shoot guns compare stats between Central American countries (strict gun control) vs USA (lax gun control)

Again there are tons of confounding variables which make the stats tell only part of the story at best. I know for a fact that homocide and firearm death is higher in the US than the UK; you don't need to tell me that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

I think its hard to compare Central America with Europe. They may ban guns, but I don't think they have the political or police clout to enforce it, just look at Mexico (I think guns are banned???).

Over here if you're caught with a gun you go to prison for a long time.

My uncle is a farmer and his neighbor threatened to shoot him over some farming dispute, very heat of the moment (when I say threatened I mean he said along the lines of "You should get a gun shoved up your arse"). Neighbor got a suspended prison sentence and is banned from ever holding a gun licence.

Out of interest Lukie where do you stand on guns? Do you own one? You seem like a v intelligent and measured guy, so I'd be interested.

On a side note, I think we in Britain think of US as having the same sort of views as us because you speak the Engrish, but I think culturally and politically we're miles apart!

[Lukie]

I think its hard to compare Central America with Europe. They may ban guns, but I don't think they have the political or police clout to enforce it, just look at Mexico (I think guns are banned???).

Over here if you're caught with a gun you go to prison for a long time.

My uncle is a farmer and his neighbor threatened to shoot him over some farming dispute, very heat of the moment (when I say threatened I mean he said along the lines of "You should get a gun shoved up your arse"). Neighbor got a suspended prison sentence and is banned from ever holding a gun licence.

Out of interest Lukie where do you stand on guns? Do you own one? You seem like a v intelligent and measured guy, so I'd be interested.

On a side note, I think we in Britain think of US as having the same sort of views as us because you speak the Engrish, but I think culturally and politically we're miles apart!

Thanks for the compliment.

If you can't compare crime stats between Central America and Europe, then you shouldn't be able to compare crime stats between Europe and the US, or US and Central America. Each has its own unique demographics, socioeconomics, and other considerations. As a generality it seems like the US is in the middle both in wealth disparity and crime, so directly comparing violent crime rates vs gun ownership seems unfair. Also it's one thing to start from a position where there guns are very heavily regulated and not accessible. Compare that to a scenario where there is already roughly 1 gun per person floating around.

I don't think what if anything I own really matters, but I don't live or work in a rough neighborhood, don't make myself a target or leave much valuable stuff laying around, and just generally live a low risk lifestyle. We'll say that my defense needs are not very high. I would feel a lot differently if I worked in the jewelry business or had a wife and kids to protect.

I consider myself to be fairly pro-gun. In any other country I would definitely be pro-gun, but the paradigm has shifted so much in this country and there are some types out there that I just can't support. I could go into more detail if you want but I went over some of the topics earlier in the thread.

[d0zer]

If you can't compare crime stats between Central America and Europe, then you shouldn't be able to compare crime stats between Europe and the US, or US and Central America. Each has its own unique demographics, socioeconomics, and other considerations

The difference is that western europe and america are both considered industrialized, "first-world" nations, and central/south america is either third-world or newly industrialized.

America is interesting because it's more 'capitalist' and less 'socialist' than the rest of the first-world, and one of the apparent byproducts of that is more socio-economic variability. More extreme rich, and more extreme poor, which will inevitably pad the crime stats.

[d0zer]

Based on the attitude in this thread, it seems like those would be extremely profitable and low risk over in Euroland. Why shouldn't somebody smash into your house and take your money and jewelry if there is no real deterrent? Personally I think doing that is very wrong and wouldn't do it regardless, but there are a great many people in the world who would do much worse things for much less money. So what stops them?

I didn't gather as much from this thread's attitude as you did...


The fundamental motivations behind home invasion are always more powerful than the deterrents are at dissuading the action. Going into someone's home is always full of risk, regardless of guns. The presence of guns would definitely be a stronger dissuading factor, but the decision is still going to be primarily motivated by whatever shit the f'n assholes want.

The real way to reduce home invasions is to have everyone in a comfortable enough situation that the risk/reward to rob people just isn't there. Stats are incomplete, heavily biased on both sides of the argument and largely inconclusive around gun ownership & safety, but socio-economic stats are pretty clear.

That being said, if I lived in a rough neighborhood in 'merica I just might be convinced to sleep next to a gun...

[Savy]

Based on the attitude in this thread, it seems like those would be extremely profitable and low risk over in Euroland. Why shouldn't somebody smash into your house and take your money and jewelry if there is no real deterrent? Personally I think doing that is very wrong and wouldn't do it regardless, but there are a great many people in the world who would do much worse things for much less money. So what stops them?

There are plenty of deterrents. Just because the threat of getting shot isn't there doesn't mean everyone thinks it's a fantastic idea to go and steal shit.

In fact, it'd be interesting to consider similar places in Europe & America where the only real difference is the fact that guns are allowed and see how their crime statistics compare.

It's also interesting to see how where people grew up influences their decisions, however I'd like to point out that the feeling of fear which a lot of Americans seem to have is completely unrealistic. In lots of places it's completely common place to leave your front doors unlocked whilst you are in. And I don't mean in places that you'd consider nice affluent areas, there are some pretty rough places where this happens. Yet crime statistics comparing similar areas in terms of burglaries are no different.

Suppose you can blame your media for pumping fear into you 24/7.