Fitness Question

[OngBonga]

I would still need to consume 272 grams of protein...

There's a really easy joke here.

[wufwugy]

Maybe everyone is fat because you are saying unreasonable things like this. Two grams of protein per pound of body weight. Are you serious?

I weigh 200lbs, so I would need to eat 400g of protein per day. So after my steak (50g), 2 chicken breasts (60g), and 3 eggs (18g), I would still need to consume 272 grams of protein...

That is a little high. My favorite breakdown has always been 1.5g per kilo of lean mass. So if you're 200 pounds you might have like 150 of lean mass then that comes out to about 120g of protein, which is much more than what people get on "normal" carb-heavy diets unless they simply eat a bunch

[wufwugy]

It's called the thermic effect of food. It's why the Calorie is a calorie thing is a problem for me. 4 calories per gram of protein and carbs. it takes almost half the calories to digest and use protein and about a quarter of the calories for carbs. Excess protein is very hard to convert to fat because the body needs to turn it into glucose first (glucenogenisis) and then convert the sugar to fat. By the time the body does all that it's basically burned it all through processing. Starch is turned to glucose easily and excess glucose is turned to fat rather easily in comparison.

Both the spelling and the theory here is very vague and not to be taken word for word. It's been dumbed down to make it easy to understand. I can link the articles if you want to read hundreds of pages on this stuff.

does dietary fat have a similar thermic effect to protein?

[Pascal]

Yes god damn it do weights. Your not going to build 20 lbs of muscle without some serious time and effort (years) but when you work out with weights you will get stronger, burn tons more calories and actually look better when you have lost considerable weight because the weight loss will be predominantly fat and not muscle because of the muscle sparring effects.

Contraty to popular belief I won't jump on the other post but I will on this one. THIS IS WHY YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE IS FAT. This is the most horrible way to eat to lose weight, I will say it again, fat is no tthe enemy, starches are. Where the fuck is the protien in this day? You need to be eating at least 1 gm of protein per lb of body weight, and I would probably push that to 2 gms per pound until you learned to eat meat at every meal. On a fat loss, healthy meal scale this was 3/10!!


Great job on the smoking. Want a suggestion, I want you to eat 3 whole eggs, one steak the size of your hand and two chicken breasts every day along with two giant salads with some kind of dressing you make yourself with Greek yogurt, cottage cheese or olive oil and vinegar. Next we will talk about supplementation.

Heyooooooooooo. Thanks jyms. I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm willing to learn.

Will follow your meal guide and report back.

[waterboy73]

Main goal is to get thinner. Don't want to sign up to gym tho. Any tips?

Find a free download of the "Insanity" program. My friend got it and within a month, dude looks like a different guy. I just had him upload the workouts to my laptop. I will be starting them soon. Maybe I'll post some before and after shots.

[jyms]

JL, I was talking about someone that needs to get into shape and is typically fat and a carb junkie with no idea how to eat I would make eat 2gms per lb. I also said short term because it's just a corrective measure and helps people understand. It would act to get people off using sugar as a metabolism and shift them to fat and protein when their liver and glycogen stores get low. 1.5 is great Wuf for most people eating lean and clean that lift heavy or workout more than 4 hours a week with resistance.

Wuf, from Lyles site

As it turns out, different nutrients have different individual TEF’s. Protein turns out to have the highest, to the tune of 20-30%. Meaning that of the total protein calories you eat, 20-30% is lost in processing. Carbohydrate stored as glycogen requires about 5-6% of the total calories. Carbohydrate converted to fat (which generally doesn't happen in very significant amounts) uses up ~23% of the total calories as TEF. Most fats have a tiny TEF, maybe 2-3% (because they can be stored as fat in fat cells with minimal processing).

I also read somewhere that when protien and fat become a fuel source due to lack of carbs there is a higher rate of TEF because of the conversion to usable energy.

[Pascal]

Eaten so far today: 2 eggs for breakfast on bagels, then large salads for early lunch (11am) and late lunch (2pm) - whole chicken breast, salad leaves, tomato, pepper and a dressing made from natural yoghurt, olive oil, vinegar and mustard.

Dinner is flank steak with vegetables.

Sound OK?

EDIT: grilled chicken fwiw

[kiwiMark]

chicken should definitely not have been grilled, always try to eat it raw. salmonella is scientifically proven to lead to weight loss.

[Pascal]

Is everything upside down there?

[bigred]

Stop eating bagels.

Amazon.com: Practical Paleo: A Customized Approach to Health and a Whole-Foods Lifestyle (9781936608751): Diane Sanfilippo, Bill Staley, Robb Wolf: Books

[Pascal]

Was only one, I had a weak moment - I'm not normally awake at 8am

[bigred]

I wouldn't suggest following Jym's equation for protein intake as it will be overwhelming. I think Jym's sometimes forgets he's on the upper echelon of nutrition/fitness fanaticism and most people a) don't have a clue and b) don't have the interest or time.

Simply put, any effort you're putting forth short of injuring yourself in the gym is great progress towards a healthier life. Avoid information overload and slowly build your habits a day at a time. Remember, it's not a diet. It's a life style. It takes a long time, discipline, and determination to change your life.

My short term advice would be: stick to meat, vegetables, minimal fruit, and nuts. The occasional deviation is fine but occasional does not mean once a day. Try and get organic and grass fed for meats if your budget allows...but it's expensive! Most importantly though...PLAN!!! PLAN, PLAN, PLAN, PLAN. Did I mention PLAN? Plan your meals at least two days in advance. This gives you a shopping list and keeps you continually investing in your health. Most people on a health kick go to the grocery store, buy a ton of healthy good, and eat wonderfully for 2-4 days. Then they wake up one morning and find they have nothing in the fridge and it's back to fast food or non-perishable garbage in the cupboard like bread, cookies, or pasta.

[bigred]

Oh, the other thing is serving size. I didn't mention this because you're not American so you probably have a decent grip that 3-5 oz of meat is typical...not a 12 oz ribeye.

[bigred]

You also my not know what an oz is...fucking communist.

[Pascal]

An oz is someone from Australia right?

[jyms]

That bagel will now take a full workout and hard sweat to burn. As long as your burning the bagel, you're not burning the fat around your midsection. You need to find your reason for sticking to this plan.

Bigred, yes my plan is a little stupid/ridiculous/extreme. That's the point. It's meant to teach someone to learn to eat protein and lose the starch. People are obsessed with starch to the point they think they can't eat or live without it. Fact is nobody likes starch, we like the things we put on them. People don't eat plain bread and bagels, they don't eat potatoes plain or white rice in a bowl by itself. It's not starch/carbs we crave, its the combination of sugar/fat/salt combined that we need to get our taste buds away from. You can't eat 2gms per lb of body weight day in day out. That's the point. You won't be hungry, you won't eat a lot of calories after a day or two and you have to prepare food in advance. Then we can look at expanding outwards. Nuts, seeds, avocado, fruit. All can be over eaten, but meat, not in a million years has anyone got fat eating meat and salad. I promise this.

[Renton]

I saw bagels plural, that sounds like a lot of calories. I see no problem with eating the occasional bagel or sandwich, carbs in moderation are not a big deal, and not all carbs are created equal. Some starches like grain bread have a significant amount of protein and fiber, unlike others like white rice which are nearly 100% carb.

Against the tide of broscience to the contrary I'd suggest eating 2 or 3 larger meals instead of 4+ smaller ones. Your salads for early and late lunch seem like not a great idea, just combine them into one larger and more satisfying meal, and be wary of dressings and croutons which can make a salad just as calorie dense as a cheeseburger if misallocated.

[Pascal]

It was only one bagel Renton, cut in half. I mean, I had the bagels in the cupboard and I'm not a fan of eggs on their own so it just kinda happened...

The portions of both were pretty big, I didn't feel like eating the whole thing in one go but then I was hungry again 3 hours later after working so that worked well for me. However much I eat I always seem to be hungry a few hours later so small meals are probably a good idea otherwise I'll just eat and eat.

Jyms - I'm taking everything on board. It's hard to cut out all starch overnight. I really appreciate the advice though.

Got uni work to do all evening but planning on going to the gym (and keeping up the diet) tomorrow. Will report back

[jyms]

Against the tide of broscience to the contrary I'd suggest eating 2 or 3 larger meals instead of 4+ smaller ones. Your salads for early and late lunch seem like not a great idea, just combine them into one larger and more satisfying meal,

I love to hear this stuff. This would be gold if people believed and understood it. That's why I mentioned earlier in the thread that frequency and timing of meals means nothing.

[Renton]

Well unless you are like 6'5" i wouldn't advise eating 4 large meals every day.

[Pascal]

Well unless you are like 6'5" i wouldn't advise eating 4 large meals every day.

If this is aimed at me then I'm not eating 4 large meals a day, just 4 normal sized ones. The salad portion was pretty big because there was a lot of salad leaves haha and two eggs for breakfast (even with a bagel) isn't massive

[wufwugy]

The healthiest I've been has always been when I eat only once a day. It certainly takes a lot of getting used to, but when you do that you can generally eat whatever you want without going overboard while still being lean

Jyms, is the 20-30% TEF of protein before it's used as an energy source due to absence of carbs?

[Renton]

If this is aimed at me then I'm not eating 4 large meals a day, just 4 normal sized ones. The salad portion was pretty big because there was a lot of salad leaves haha and two eggs for breakfast (even with a bagel) isn't massive

Unless you are a big (read: tall and muscular) fella, its hard to eat 4 normal sized meals and have a decent calorie deficit.

[Renton]

The healthiest I've been has always been when I eat only once a day. It certainly takes a lot of getting used to, but when you do that you can generally eat whatever you want without going overboard while still being lean

Same, I've had the most successful weight-loss when eating like 1.5 meals a day. My normal lifestyle is to fast when I wake up. I've never been a big fan of breakfast. I usually don't end up eating for a few hours at which point I eat a large meal, then later I get peckish in the evening and have something smaller.

[jyms]

Ya I've used IF religiously for over a year now and have never felt better or been in as good of shape. I eat a post workout shake mid day and a small protein meal later. Then a bigger dinner with most of my daily calories. Usually about 1500-2K cals.


Wuf, the TEF is the cost of digestion and breakdown of nutrients alone. Converting protein to a usable fuelsource (BCAA's and glucose) is timely and not energy efficient so it uses up even more calories

[wufwugy]

Ya I've used IF religiously for over a year now and have never felt better or been in as good of shape. I eat a post workout shake mid day and a small protein meal later. Then a bigger dinner with most of my daily calories. Usually about 1500-2K cals.


Wuf, the TEF is the cost of digestion and breakdown of nutrients alone. Converting protein to a usable fuelsource (BCAA's and glucose) is timely and not energy efficient so it uses up even more calories

So that means that on a high protein/low carb diet you could be burning >30% of the calories compared to a high carb/low protein diet

[Pascal]

Same, I've had the most successful weight-loss when eating like 1.5 meals a day. My normal lifestyle is to fast when I wake up. I've never been a big fan of breakfast. I usually don't end up eating for a few hours at which point I eat a large meal, then later I get peckish in the evening and have something smaller.

I heard this was bad because breakfast kickstarted your metabolism or something?

So confused by this thread haha. I take it the best way to go is lots of exercise and lots of protein heavy meals, but not overeating?

[Renton]

I heard this was bad because breakfast kickstarted your metabolism or something?

IMO whatever positive effect breakfast has on metabolism is more than balanced by the 600+ calories you had to eat to get that boost. Be wary of when people say something boosts your metabolism, its usually crap.

Taking thyroid hormone or doing vigorous exercise will go farther in boosting your metabolism.

[wufwugy]

I heard this was bad because breakfast kickstarted your metabolism or something?

So confused by this thread haha. I take it the best way to go is lots of exercise and lots of protein heavy meals, but not overeating?

Just gradually increase what percentage of your meals is protein and vegetables and gradually increase the amount of non-sitting-around stuff you do.

Jyms' method of going balls-to-the-wall works if you're hardcore, but most of us aren't. Anyways, progress and adaptation on these things is always very slow and gradual, so you want a slow and gradual approach, and there are a handful of "rules" that you can stick to--like the ones I outlined--that will get the job done

No need to be fancy, just trying to move in the right direction

[jyms]

Ideal Metabolism | Brad Pilon's 'Eat Blog Eat'

Gonna throw this out there right now to stop the 6+ meals, breakfast starts metabolism, building muscle burns calories stuff now before it becomes a long post.


Also read his blob or Matin Berhans IF blog and articles to find out more about not eating and still burning fat.

[jyms]

Teh problem with moderation and not going balls to the wall early is changes are slow and in an immediate gratification society we need to witness change fat or we give up too quick. Doing things the other way, and gradually going back intoa maintenance style diet and workout is easier and allows you to find your point of homeostasis.

[Pascal]

Go to gym -> use machine to find out how much % fat I have -> work out lean weight -> eat in that range (less starch, more protein) -> workout and keep active -> be awesome?

[surviva316]

I realize this is a fitness thread, so I don't necessarily disagree with a lot the things being said in this context (losing weight, gaining muscle mass, etc), but I'm not sure a paleo diet is excellent for your actual health (like not getting heart attacks and such). I think pretty much everyone agrees that avoiding white bread and white rice, but ratcheting up protein intake while disallowing non-meat options and saying that fat doesn't matter can really hike LDL and saturated fat intake, while reducing a ton of nutrients like vitamin D, antioxidants, possibly dietary fiber, etc.

It makes sense that the paleo diet will make you "fit" by an evolutionary standard, but there was never any evolutionary advantage to living past 40-years-old.

Not that I'm an expert, and as I already suggested, this isn't NECESSARILY the thread for this, but I did wanna open up this discussion.

[jyms]

but I'm not sure a paleo diet is excellent for your actual health (like not getting heart attacks and such). I think pretty much everyone agrees that avoiding white bread and white rice, but ratcheting up protein intake while disallowing non-meat options and saying that fat doesn't matter can really hike LDL and saturated fat intake, while reducing a ton of nutrients like vitamin D, antioxidants, possibly dietary fiber, etc.

This is all very bad thoughts that have led to the obesity epidemic. Fat intake in lieu of starchy carbs will actually lower LDL, it will raise HDL. It will lower triglycerides and reduce cravings, blood sugar and insulin swings and actually increase vitamin intake and fiber since I bet my diet plan would give people more fiber and vitamins than a diet they are eating now.

[surviva316]

This is all very bad thoughts that have led to the obesity epidemic. Fat intake in lieu of starchy carbs will actually lower LDL, it will raise HDL. It will lower triglycerides and reduce cravings, blood sugar and insulin swings and actually increase vitamin intake and fiber since I bet my diet plan would give people more fiber and vitamins than a diet they are eating now.

You'll have to do more to convince me than to just say it. I can't find anything on my own that has significant long-term support for the claim that unspecified fat intake in lieu of unspecified carb intakes will lower LDL--again, this isn't any nail in any coffin, I was just looking for more specific discussion.

And as for this phrase: "[It will] actually increase vitamin intake and fiber since I bet my diet plan would give people more fiber and vitamins than a diet they are eating now," this is really really really generic stuff. We haven't discussed what type of nutrients (if it covers all of them, for example), and I'm not interested in how it compares to the typical american diet that's laden with processed foods and notably deficient in ALL of fruits, vegetables, dairy and legumes, so you know like whatever.

Yes, the average american eats shit. The question is if legumes (as an example) are bad, which has nothing at all to do with how average americans eat too many potato chips.

[jyms]

I'm not toing to start linking articles and sites. You can spend hours reading tons about what is wrong with all of these thoughts like I did or not. I have spent a ton of time learning these things and will give you tons of specific advice but to go over something as simple as HDL and LDL cholesterol myths would be a waste of time and reading here.

My point about vitamins and fiber is anyone who has no idea how to get healthy and lose fat probably wouldn't eat as much as two to 3 cups of vegetables in a day on a regular diet, particularly a low fat diet laden with starchy carbs.

Also I'm not saying eat all that meat from now till your 80. I've made my point that this is to moderate change. I would need an hour of conversation to discuss this. If anyone wants to spend an hour and have me give details and send you a ton of information and links I can arrange it. But this is my job, I fix this stuff with people daily and have seen my results. People have bought 100+ hours of my time at $52 an hour to find out what I can do for them because of results their friends or family have got.

[surviva316]

I'm not toing to start linking articles and sites. You can spend hours reading tons about what is wrong with all of these thoughts like I did or not. I have spent a ton of time learning these things and will give you tons of specific advice but to go over something as simple as HDL and LDL cholesterol myths would be a waste of time and reading here.

This is what I was looking for because my own research through my Elsevier subscription wasn't getting me anywhere. The first several articles I found either didn't support your claim (eg: obese people with ASVD did a high-fat, no-starch diet and had no change in LDL concentration with an increase in LDL size, though they did lose weight and see decreases in triglycerides) or went directly against it (eg: introducing full fat rice bran and oat bran saw SIGNIFICANT reduction in LDL levels), which again I'm not going to tout these as nails in any coffin, but I was hoping to be shown the nail in the coffin that these things are myths.

My point about vitamins and fiber is anyone who has no idea how to get healthy and lose fat probably wouldn't eat as much as two to 3 cups of vegetables in a day on a regular diet, particularly a low fat diet laden with starchy carbs.

In which case you weren't rebutting my point.

But this is my job, I fix this stuff with people daily and have seen my results.

Unless you're testing their LDL levels and tracking your clients' likelihood of heart-related issues later in life and closely studying their nutritional intake and its effects (including long-term effects) on their overall health, then you're not "see[ing] . . results" that do anything to rebut my point. Again, I'm not questioning how good you are at your job (since I specifically said this may not be a proper thing to bring up in the context of a fitness thread because I believe in the fitness-related science of it), but unless you're an MD, appealing to your professional authority won't be totally relevant.

But again, maybe the issue is that I'm discussing this in a fitness thread and need to take it to a conversation regarding more holistic health effects of diets.

[jyms]

Dude, even your own point of increasing LDL particle size is a huge thing. So is increasing HDL and reducing ratios. Not to mention if you start looking up other sources you will start to find out that Cholesterol and mortality rates are not connected either. High cholesterol is not a significant factor in and of itself to cause heart attacks or heart disease.

Lastly yes I do have people tested. If they come to me with these issues we schedule them to go to there doctor as we continue training. I can't have someone on BP meds or statins lowering their numbers without the medicines being monitored for dosages. Nothing would be worse than having someone get healthier and taking unnecessary amounts of a medicine that could dangerously lower their cholesterol or BP

Do you believe that someone could lose 40lbs of fat, increase LBM by 5-7lbs, their VO2max and overall energy levels and actually raise their blood lipids negatively?

[surviva316]

Do you believe that someone could lose 40lbs of fat, increase LBM by 5-7lbs, their VO2max and overall energy levels and actually raise their blood lipids negatively?

I'd be lying if I said I knew the answer to this (even though I know you're being rhetorical). Anyway, even if your implicit point is assumed, it's difficult to attribute the exact causes (you could just be awesome in the gym and be awesome at getting them to cut processed foods and easily-processed carbs and so forth), so it's not essential to proving that it's a bad idea to replace that fist-sized piece of red meat (that you're eating with two chicken breasts) with a serving of black beans.

Anyway, I do realize that the point is essential to dissoluting the exact wording I used in my first post (that it can cause a hike in LDL and heart health risks), but we're still not much getting to the point of if legumes and fruit and whole grains are unilaterally bad.

[jyms]

I never said they were bad. I eat them. I also eat chocolate covered almonds and Birthday cake. I already said that there is a far cry from how I would have someone eat the first two weeks they are trying to lose weight and get healthy and how they should find a maintenance diet for homeostasis. My first goal is to not have someone try to do things in moderation because if people of the world could moderate there wouldn't be obesity, alcoholics, problem gamblers and drug addicts. My goal is to get people to learn to live without these so called "I can't live without" carbs. They need to learn how to get food without a drive through, and they need to start eating vegetables and lose the sweet tooth. they need to stop snacking on shit in a box and calling it meal #4 and they need to stop being hungry. They need to learn how to eat protein, all the time

[jyms]

As an example, Pascal wants to lose weight and we told him what to eat, no bread, no pasta, no rice and on the first day after that post he ate a fucking bagel. People can't figure out how to eat right, and need to learn how to eat without those foods before adding those foods.

[surviva316]

Okay then.

[Pascal]

As an example, Pascal wants to lose weight and we told him what to eat, no bread, no pasta, no rice and on the first day after that post he ate a fucking bagel. People can't figure out how to eat right, and need to learn how to eat without those foods before adding those foods.

Learning though! Not gonna be perfect from the first day when I have no real idea what I'm doing.

[Galapogos]

As an example, Pascal wants to lose weight and we told him what to eat, no bread, no pasta, no rice and on the first day after that post he ate a fucking bagel.

Haha! I missed this sequence of events but that's hilarious.

[bikes]

fuck you jyms. bagels are delicious. i eat carbs for breakfast lunch and dinner and still rock a flat stomach and the 143lbs.

[bigred]

I'm a fan of Paleo but not so much broscience (thanks for the term, Renton). Far too much emphasis on PRRROOOOOTEEEEINN and nowhere near the amount of emphasis on vegetables.

Surviva, my argument against grains is that they're not nutritionally dense. There seems to be two camps in paleo. One states that humans weren't meant to eat gluten and that it has a negative impact on the system. This assertion is typically backed up with allegorical evidence such as "cavemen were healthy", or "look at the inuit and their high fat diet...no heart attacks!". I'm not super convinced. The other camp says that you want to be eating the most nutritionally dense foods possible (meat, vegetables, nuts, etc) to have the highest amount of energy, keep your immune and bodily systems functioning properly to fight off disease, and in proper servings to keep calorie count low to avoid weight gain. The problem with high carb/gluten/corn starch based diets is that its a whole lot of filler calories with very little nutrition. Thus, you're feeding your complex system shitty fuel. It won't function well. It won't be able to fight disease, cancer, etc.

[jyms]

Eating 1gm per pound of body weight is not bro science.

Eating 6 meals a day to stoke the metabolism, eating breakfast to kick start the metabolism, eat a low fat/moderate carb diet to lose weight, don't eat after 7 pm or you'll get fat, do slow cardio to burn fat and preserve muscle, workout one muscle group a day for best results, these are broscience.

[surviva316]

Silence, you fool! You'll scare Negraneau away with your manliness!

[JL]

Eating 1gm per pound of body weight is not bro science.

Eating 6 meals a day to stoke the metabolism, eating breakfast to kick start the metabolism, eat a low fat/moderate carb diet to lose weight, don't eat after 7 pm or you'll get fat, do slow cardio to burn fat and preserve muscle, workout one muscle group a day for best results, these are broscience.

That's basically everything I learned from people at the gym when I first started working out 10 years ago.

[jyms]

Learning though! Not gonna be perfect from the first day when I have no real idea what I'm doing.

I know, it's just an example. There is a story about a pretty popular strength and conditioning coach that took on trying to get an actor to lose 50 lbs in 6 months for a role. The second week in the coach couldn't understand why his client wasn't losing weight and was planning on going over his diet again after only talking once about what to eat. On his way home he actually was walking along a strip mall to a supplement store and seen his client eating in a fish and chip restaurant. Turns out telling someone to eat fish and potatoes was misconstrued. He was eating fish and chips.

[jyms]

That's basically everything I learned from people at the gym when I first started working out 10 years ago.

Yep, and it's all wrong hence the BROscience

[jyms]

fuck you jyms. bagels are delicious. i eat carbs for breakfast lunch and dinner and still rock a flat stomach and the 143lbs.

Now show me a 6pack or a 16 inch calf and bicep and we will talk. Gain 10 lbs of lean mass and then tell me about your flat stomach

[Pascal]

[jyms]

[Pascal]

Two last noob questions before bed. First, nights out; alcohol in general is a bad idea I'm guessing? If I do want to drink (parties, Christmas, etc) better to avoid beer and stick to spirits? Second, cheese - best avoided entirely?

[kiwiMark]

are there suggestions for when I would want to rock a plant based meal rather than an any-time meal, out of curiosity?

[kiwiMark]

The reason rice/pasta/potato/bread would take up half of one of those plates for my "any-time meals" is maybe largely out of habit but also out of financial reasons. I guess eating healthy is expensive.

[TeUnit]

make sure you are properly hydrated

gl,

t

[jyms]

pick you cheats. If you do everything right for 3 meals a day or more for 6 days a week that's 18-20 meals right, enjoy what you enjoy and get back to it the next day. Nothing is rigid. as for drinking here is a good post.

The truth about alcohol, fat loss and muscle growth | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

if you want a bit of cheese have some. protein and fat is not a bad combination when avoiding starches. Just watch the total calorie intake if having too much. This rule applies for things like avacado, nuts and seeds as well. Good foods with lots of upside but watch the amounts.

lasty, plan small cheats once a week. No successful nutritional strategy will have you eating the same 24/7 without reward. There are both physiological and psychological reasons to plan controlled cheats

[jyms]

are there suggestions for when I would want to rock a plant based meal rather than an any-time meal, out of curiosity?

Ya, when your stupid enough to believe in a vegan or vegetarian based diet. And since it was mentioned in the AMA, The "forks over knives documentary" was based on the much aligned china study that is pretty much been outright proven as Vegan propaganda.

[kiwiMark]

Okay cool, the girlfriend's vegetarian (not for nutritious reasons) so I end up eating vegetarian reasonably often, is why I ask. I guess I don't get why "vegetarian source" is listed on the picture if I can't use the Anytime meal as a vegetarian option. Or is the idea that I could sometimes eat meat protein and sometimes veg protein but if I'm going to exclusively eat veg protein, the other things on the plant plate (let's say supposedly) compensate for other stuff that you'd get from meat?

[kiwiMark]

also thanks for always so willingly sharing your expertise on this sort of stuff on the forum when these threads pop up!

[jyms]

veggy meals need to be balanced to get proper protein bioavailability (usable protien) the plant based option is there to show how to do it as healthy as possible. many vegetarians think cheese pizza and pasta with tomato sauce is a good vegetarian meal and blame genetics or something else on weight gain and health issues

[kiwiMark]

but we make the pizza dough with half wholegrain flour!

[surviva316]

Or is the idea that I could sometimes eat meat protein and sometimes veg protein but if I'm going to exclusively eat veg protein, the other things on the plant plate (let's say supposedly) compensate for other stuff that you'd get from meat?

If you look at the nutrition facts on a box of pasta, you'll probably be surpsised by how much protein it has. The problem is that there are several different kinds of amino acids, and the proteins we get from grains are largely wasted because they're incomplete.

It's my understanding that proteins of things like soy, beans and nuts are complementary to these amino combinations, so that it is beneficial to have grains along with them. I don't know if mixing and matching aminos like this compares to getting more natural animal proteins, and I don't know if 25g grain protein + 25g legume protein = 50g of all necessary aminos or anything like that, but I think that's what the chart is referring to.

[jyms]

What Are Good Sources of Protein? - Protein Quality | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
Explains a lot

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...55272958,d.b2I

changed to google search link see if that helps

[wufwugy]

vaillancourt link is 403

[vegasjj]

I admit - I did not read all the wonderful posts in this thread - that is because I have just recently found the perfect exercise regime fir for the Holidays.
And decided to share it with you all.


Edit:
I am really sorry that this post caused "issues" (see subsequent posts) did not mean to derail this thread nor did I mean to belittle it's content. Simply meant to add a smile to it. I apologize to anyone that misread my intention. (except jyms as I do not believe, even if this was offensive, it deserved such a harsh response). And I really HONESTLY forgot I posted it already in the forum, just popped back in my head when I came across this thread.

[jyms]

Vegasjj, I deleted your Facebook crap because it's crap and provides nothing to this thread. Besides you already posted the exact same stupid pic in the lols thread thereby already bringing down one of the best threads on FTR, don't start crapping all over this one. And we all read all the threads, so don't post the same thing twice, not even if it's funny, and that wasn't

[Renton]

You smarty-art niggas need to chill, this guy just needs to put less food into his face.

[Galapogos]

Vegasjj, I deleted your Facebook crap because it's crap and provides nothing to this thread. Besides you already posted the exact same stupid pic in the lols thread thereby already bringing down one of the best threads on FTR, don't start crapping all over this one. And we all read all the threads, so don't post the same thing twice, not even if it's funny, and that wasn't

Not fair, you've posted a rant like this in every forum.

[vegasjj]

Not fair, you've posted a rant like this in every forum.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your post.

I have sent a pm - in response - which I believe is far more appropriate.

Your comment certainly is restoring my belief that a forum is a place for all - who want to belong to a community, support each other have some fun and it is not a place to scold and antagonize with no cause.

THANK YOU!

[a500lbgorilla]

Just do something. And don't hurt yourself.

[Poopadoop]

Ya, not sure you need to go on some hard-core diet plan. Just eat a variety of fresh food, everything in moderation and not too much of it, and get off your ass and exercise a few times a week.

Also, a variety in the diet is important for all kinds of long-term and other health reasons. E.g., carbs get a bad name, and things like sugar and other refined carbs are worth avoiding, but diets low in complex carbs can produce mood changes, making people tired, angry, etc. (maybe that explains why jyms has so many little tantrums lol).

[jyms]

Anyone with a comment about just do moderation, eat more carbs and be healthy or just do cardio to lose fat must post a pic of themselves with their shirt off holding up a sign with the date 12/12/12. Don't sit behind your monitor with your 12" biceps, kyphosis and pale white skin and tell people how to lose weight and look good. Show me how you look and we will talk.

This is my facebook cover photo, I posted pics of my 70 lb weight loss in 7 months at age 47, anyone else want to step up with pics to show their advice works?