Fitness Question

[bigred]

Vegasjj, I deleted your Facebook crap because it's crap and provides nothing to this thread. Besides you already posted the exact same stupid pic in the lols thread thereby already bringing down one of the best threads on FTR, don't start crapping all over this one. And we all read all the threads, so don't post the same thing twice, not even if it's funny, and that wasn't

I thought it was pretty funny. Don't see the need for deleting the post when there's this awesome in-brain moderating feature called "ignore."

[jyms]

Fine, I''ve put it back. I did my best to stop another "crazzvette" series of events.

[Pascal]

One time be a real girllllll

Eaten no starch today, eggs for breakfast, some soup for a snack (had chorizo in it so like 15g of protein according to can and low in fat, hope that was OK) and then steak, vegetables and beansprouts for lunch.

Got chicken for dinner, what's good with chicken?

[eberetta1]

I used to do a lot of sports but got really unfit/unhealthy over last couple of years. Last week or two I've been getting back into jogging but the bottom of legs (I guess my calves) get really painful after 20-25 minutes.

Diet Mountain Dew. Besides being a great appetite suppressant for me is also a great pain reliever. I grab 1000mg of Ibuprofen or Acetominophen and take a good size swig of the Dew.

Now your question on painful calves...
Listen to the body. You said you have gotten unhealthy over several years. Now in two weeks you are trying to make your body do this exercise for 20-25 minutes. Alot of unhealthy people could not be up to that level this soon. You can injure yourself pushing too hard and not listening to the body. The pain you feel is the start of ruptured vessels and internal bleeding starting to occur. Too much and you have a full blown injury and can set your exercising back several months, if you even return to it.

I had this same problem doing jumping jacks, terrible pain in the legs. After reducing the stupid amount of time that I spent doing jumping jacks, within three weeks, I was able to not have severe pain in my lower legs. I thought I had lost my ability to ever do a jumping jack, but it can return by giving it time.

If I were you I would drop it down to 10-15 or 15-20 minutes for two weeks. Your body is wanting to cooperate, it just needs time to deal with this new lifestyle as you have not placed this new demand on it in several years. Sorta like when you first wake up in the morning, and you need a few moments before being back at full speed. Allow your body the time to become capable of doing what you demand of it.
I have seen guys with beer bellies bigger than basketballs running over a dozen laps on the track, but the individuals built up to this tolerance level over several months time. In our younger days, we did not have the beer bellies to contend with as our running partner.
Running on grass instead of concrete or asphalt can help. Some runners run on their toes, I would not do this if I was you , more a flat footed style.
Even Zola Budd, an Olympian, did not wear shoes in her race. So we could realistically learn to run with no shoes if you listened to your body. The following article talks about how the foot strikes the ground which might be an interesting read to you.
The truth about barefoot running: It's complicated | Lower Extremity Review Magazine

Congratulations on getting steered back to a healthier lifestyle. Be careful, as I exercised more, I got hungrier. So, a healthy diet is the second side of this two headed coin.

I am not a health professional, never claim to be. I figured I could give you my opinion as you threw out the question. What works for some does not work for everyone.

[jyms]

Do some people actually read threads or just post an answer to OP and move on?

One time be a real girllllll

Eaten no starch today, eggs for breakfast, some soup for a snack (had chorizo in it so like 15g of protein according to can and low in fat, hope that was OK) and then steak, vegetables and beansprouts for lunch.

Got chicken for dinner, what's good with chicken?

Grilled Asparagus, Mashed cauliflower with greek yogurt,garlic and shallots, Romaine lettuce salad with cherry tomatoes, mushrooms, crumbled blue cheese topped with greek yogurt and hot sauce, Shiitake mushrooms grilled upside down with garlic and onion powder, sliced tomato, thin slice of old cheddar or Havarti and jalapeno (or olives if you don't like spicy)

[Poopadoop]

Well I've never been 70 lbs overweight so losing 70 lbs of fat is going to be a hard accomplishment to match. I really think it's admirable that you lost all that weight, though probably not as admirable as never letting yourself become a fatass in the first place.

And maybe it's the lighting in those pictures, but I wouldn't exactly categorize your skin tone as 'glowing with good health'. It's above average in the central pic where I assume you've been working out, but you do look a bit pale to me in those other ones. If nothing else, I'm pretty sure my cardio program and balanced diet has me beating you on that criteria. But I am a few years younger so maybe that's not a fair comparison.

I think in the balance if you are just trying to get healthy and lose some weight you can certainly accomplish as much with cardio and a moderate balanced diet with as you can with an Atkin's style diet and pumping iron, and certainly with less risk of having some kind of dietary deficiency. Of course, lifting weights is beneficial too and there's nothing wrong with doing both.

[jyms]

Well after training people for the last 2 years I certainly have learned not to judge why or how people get to be fat asses in the first place. But I digress. You are actually judging lighting and skin tone from a Blackberry phone image taken in a locker room or bathroom?

[Poopadoop]

I'm glad to hear that you're so tolerant of fatties because i was under the impression you were more of the Marine seargant type of trainer based on how you talk to people here.

And yeah like i said, it may just be the lighting and you may very well have great skin tone. Still I'm guessing mine looks better.

[eberetta1]

Grilled Asparagus, Mashed cauliflower with greek yogurt,garlic and shallots, Romaine lettuce salad with cherry tomatoes, mushrooms, crumbled blue cheese topped with greek yogurt and hot sauce, Shiitake mushrooms grilled upside down with garlic and onion powder, sliced tomato, thin slice of old cheddar or Havarti and jalapeno (or olives if you don't like spicy)

I think your paragraph above works alot better for people than a no rice, no bread, no potatoes, basically no food allowed paragraph does. People need a llist of can do's of what is available, and preferably foods that can be consumed in unlimited quantities. I can understand where a teacher that you are have to remind folks some of the foods they are eating are now no-nos.

[wufwugy]

Jyms, IIRC about seven years ago Lyle claimed a good rule of thumb is 15x body weight in calories for maintenance, 20x for gaining, and 10x for losing. I'm not sure if I remember it correctly since it's been so long, and it all depends on other factors like activity, age, etc, but as a rule of thumb it works. Thoughts?

I got back up to 240 from 205 six months ago and I've discovered that I need to take things slowly in order to lose weight consistently. I'd probably be at 10% body fat at 185-190, so that's the goal, but my strategy at this juncture is to just keep daily calories below 10x body weight. So since I'm 235 atm, that would be <2350 daily. My guess is this will work, partly because I put back on the 35 pounds by consuming >4000 cals daily

[wufwugy]

BTW thanks for the Brad Pilon blog link. I've gone over his stuff for about an hour and found several pieces of information I've googled several times in the past yet haven't had success finding (namely the relationship between body fat and testosterone). I like the way he theorizes and some of the topics he covers

[jyms]

Pilon is awesome, so is Berkhan who I linked about alcohol. Both are IF guys and as far away from Broscience as you will find in the iron realm. Lyle has a few good books for dieting and weight loss for people training, including athletes. UD 2.0 is deep and complicated with a CKD style diet, and Flexible dieting is probably the best "moderation" diet book. PSMF is insane and works like a motherfucker but you will beat your children and kill the family pet on it, but you will also lose 20+lbs of pure fat in a month if you have enough to lose.


edit: also double check the lyle facts, was it body weight or LBM x10? I am on my phone so can't check now.

[wufwugy]

I couldn't find it again because it was so long ago (it was probably lost in the purge he did like 5 years ago anyways), but I'm pretty sure it's total mass not just lbm. It wouldn't make much sense to be just lbm since bmr depends on weight

[jyms]

Ya it does, but people with larger BF (30%) can actually lose weight with the same Kcals as people that weigh far less (12%) if they have the same LBM with little fear of significant metabolism drops. I think he was doing some experimenting with Obese subjects having them wear weighted vests and as they lose BF they replaced it on the weighted vest to see if the actual body weight effected the metabolism or the effort of carrying the extra weight 24/7. Never heard any results either. It would also maybe help maintain LBM that invariably drops on obese individuals losing significant weight

[JKDS]

Dear Jyms: I started lifting about a year ago, and am 5'5 and age 24. My chest and legs have gotten significantly stronger, but my arms and back are lagging behind in comparison. For instance, my bench improved from just the bar, to a 45 on each side...but curls an increase of about 5lbs :/

Nutrition is probably not the issue, since i had gains in some areas (although my nutrition does suck).

Is this likely just an issue with under or over training? Is overtraining even a thing?

Typical Back/Bicep day looks like: Lawnmowers, pull downs, pull ups, dead lift, various rows using a machine....then hammers, ezbar curls, standing dumbell curls, and reverse preacher curls.

Triceps on chest day are like: standing extensions, close grip bench press, push downs with rope/bar, skull crushers

Usually all for 3-4 sets at 6-10 reps depending on weight.

How i lift more with arms/back?

[jyms]

Mind muscle link. Without seeing form and how you are doing things it's tough. How many days a week are you lifting? What are your goals? Is it to look bigger, get stronger? or overall fitness? Your set/rep ranges are very non specific (generic). Without knowing everything I can tell you that you are doing too many exercises, not enough of the key (compound) exercises, depending on goals your rest periods could be wrong and fuck bro, where is the legs?? I tell everyone this, want to get bigger? Get under the bar. I see you do deadlifts, good start.

Lastly, there is a firm belief amongst the non Bro-community that there is no such thing as over training, just under recovery. It's an excuse most people use to back off or take it easy. As to nutrition, there are things that might need to be adjusted Pre/post workout depending on goals

[wufwugy]

Dear Jyms: I started lifting about a year ago, and am 5'5 and age 24. My chest and legs have gotten significantly stronger, but my arms and back are lagging behind in comparison. For instance, my bench improved from just the bar, to a 45 on each side...but curls an increase of about 5lbs :/

Nutrition is probably not the issue, since i had gains in some areas (although my nutrition does suck).

Is this likely just an issue with under or over training? Is overtraining even a thing?

Typical Back/Bicep day looks like: Lawnmowers, pull downs, pull ups, dead lift, various rows using a machine....then hammers, ezbar curls, standing dumbell curls, and reverse preacher curls.

Triceps on chest day are like: standing extensions, close grip bench press, push downs with rope/bar, skull crushers

Usually all for 3-4 sets at 6-10 reps depending on weight.

How i lift more with arms/back?

According to what you've said, your problem doesn't involve upper body "pushing" exercises but upper body "pulling" ones. This is because if your bench is improving then your triceps are too, which make up most of your arms. However, if your back and biceps are lagging, it isn't an arm issue but a "pulling" issue. This is common because people inadvertently hit more volume with the bench press than with any upper body pulling exercise. This has to do with things like on the bench you have to push through the hardest part of the lift (about half way up) while in pulling exercises like rows the hardest part of the lift is the top and most reps end right there for people

I've had similar issues in the past. I suggest moving the upper body pulling exercises to the forefront of your regimen (like instead of doing bench first rows next, do rows first bench next), making sure to not do any cheating in the reps (cheating is super easy to do for these), and making sure the time under tension is equal or higher than with bench exercises. I would do the latter mainly by adding isometrics of 1-3 seconds at the very top of each rep; this is the main thing that boosted my lag in lat and biceps

Also, if you can, do some oly lifts like the snatch. Those force your upper back to power through, and the greatest backs you'll ever see are on oly lifters

Personally I do not like curls because they're too much of a deltoid isometric and are a great (shitty) way to get rotator cuff injuries. But they can be worked fine if you like going low on weights and doing like hammer curls or something (stuff I never did). I'm unconvinced that non-compound movements are needed though. I built my biceps more from chin ups than from curls and my triceps more from normal bench press than skull crushers or close grip bench

[JKDS]

Mind muscle link. Without seeing form and how you are doing things it's tough. How many days a week are you lifting? What are your goals? Is it to look bigger, get stronger? or overall fitness? Your set/rep ranges are very non specific (generic). Without knowing everything I can tell you that you are doing too many exercises, not enough of the key (compound) exercises, depending on goals your rest periods could be wrong and fuck bro, where is the legs?? I tell everyone this, want to get bigger? Get under the bar. I see you do deadlifts, good start.

Lastly, there is a firm belief amongst the non Bro-community that there is no such thing as over training, just under recovery. It's an excuse most people use to back off or take it easy. As to nutrition, there are things that might need to be adjusted Pre/post workout depending on goals

I go about 3-4 days/week. Sorry, shouldnt have omitted the other exercises. Anyway, legs include: squats, press, and lunges, chest includes: bench, decline bench, flys, barbell press...and i do that immediately before triceps. Core stuff happens too, but thats usually whenever i find time.

Main goal is to get smaller and stronger i guess. Rest periods between sets is varied like 1-2min, less when i do more reps, more when i do less. Typical week is like Day1: Chest/Tri, Day 3: Back/Bi, Day5: Legs, Day 6or 7 Core then repeat.

But...possible reasons you said could be: Form, rest periods, and include more compound exercises yeah?

According to what you've said, your problem doesn't involve upper body "pushing" exercises but upper body "pulling" ones. This is because if your bench is improving then your triceps are too, which make up most of your arms. However, if your back and biceps are lagging, it isn't an arm issue but a "pulling" issue. This is common because people inadvertently hit more volume with the bench press than with any upper body pulling exercise. This has to do with things like on the bench you have to push through the hardest part of the lift (about half way up) while in pulling exercises like rows the hardest part of the lift is the top and most reps end right there for people

hrmmm i might not be finishing the rep...that makes sense

I've had similar issues in the past. I suggest moving the upper body pulling exercises to the forefront of your regimen (like instead of doing bench first rows next, do rows first bench next), making sure to not do any cheating in the reps (cheating is super easy to do for these), and making sure the time under tension is equal or higher than with bench exercises. I would do the latter mainly by adding isometrics of 1-3 seconds at the very top of each rep; this is the main thing that boosted my lag in lat and biceps

Also, if you can, do some oly lifts like the snatch. Those force your upper back to power through, and the greatest backs you'll ever see are on oly lifters

Personally I do not like curls because they're too much of a deltoid isometric and are a great (shitty) way to get rotator cuff injuries. But they can be worked fine if you like going low on weights and doing like hammer curls or something (stuff I never did). I'm unconvinced that non-compound movements are needed though. I built my biceps more from chin ups than from curls and my triceps more from normal bench press than skull crushers or close grip bench

Hrm...maybe ill give that a shot. I switched to including a exercising that included tris and bis just because i wasnt seeing gains without it...but maybe i was just impatient. Certainly not seeing much with it though.

[JKDS]

Ill clarify more.

Old workout was like Chest day, Back day, Leg day, Core day, using 4 exercises or so each, with 3-4 sets each, of about 8 reps. They all included compound exercises. But i wasnt seeing much improvement in terms of strength from my back, biceps, or triceps...so i started adding more exercises thinking that i just wasnt working them hard enough, like adding curls and extensions and such.

Is that the wrong way to approach it?

[Renton]

Arms and upper back advance very slowly compared to lower back and hips/legs. You said you went from 45/135 bench press for 10 reps, that sounds like solid results. Be thankful you weren't wracked with shoulder injuries along the way.

[wufwugy]

I go about 3-4 days/week. Sorry, shouldnt have omitted the other exercises. Anyway, legs include: squats, press, and lunges, chest includes: bench, decline bench, flys, barbell press...and i do that immediately before triceps. Core stuff happens too, but thats usually whenever i find time.

Main goal is to get smaller and stronger i guess. Rest periods between sets is varied like 1-2min, less when i do more reps, more when i do less. Typical week is like Day1: Chest/Tri, Day 3: Back/Bi, Day5: Legs, Day 6or 7 Core then repeat.

You could do something like two back/bi days and switch the chest/tri day to tri/chest. There are a bunch of different schemes you can do too

But...possible reasons you said could be: Form, rest periods, and include more compound exercises yeah?

When skimping and cheating is possible, we all do it without even realizing it

hrmmm i might not be finishing the rep...that makes sense

Yeah my biggest improvement came when I started using isometrics at the hardest part of the lift

Hrm...maybe ill give that a shot. I switched to including a exercising that included tris and bis just because i wasnt seeing gains without it...but maybe i was just impatient. Certainly not seeing much with it though.

Arms kinda always lag, especially if you're naturally small. Compounds hit them just as much as anything else, and they keep you from looking silly (big arms on a small back looks dumb). There is even reason to believe that compounds hit the smaller muscles more by way of forcing bigger intensity on them due to being the "weakest link" in the compound movement


Anyways do snatches and chinups with full range and isometrics at the top and you'll find you've never done anything that helps your back and arms as much

[jyms]

If your trying to gets stronger and not working towards hypertrophy (muscle building) then you need to work on several things. Heavy weight is not the be all end all of strength. You need to work on explosive power, With bench and tris you can explode the bar off the chest and develop strength quite naturally because of the nature of the lifts. Same with squats, slow negatives and explosive lifts make you get stronger faster. But with back we never explode. We use english with our bodies. We use our hips, we stop the bar short because we have too much weight and can't retract the scapula so it becomes an arm movement and the biceps won't grow as fast or get strong enough for big lifts. Do low reps. no more than 8, usually 5 or 6. Good form, 2 mins rest min.

Look up scapular retraction, Learn to feel the movement in the back. Start working from multiple angles and grips. Above the head, below the head, narrow grip, wide grip, pronated, supinated. The back needs angles, the chest needs weight. Fuck triceps and biceps, do some narrow grip presses (chest) and some barbell curls (back) at the end and go get a post workout drink.,

[Lukie]

Jyms, IIRC about seven years ago Lyle claimed a good rule of thumb is 15x body weight in calories for maintenance, 20x for gaining, and 10x for losing. I'm not sure if I remember it correctly since it's been so long, and it all depends on other factors like activity, age, etc, but as a rule of thumb it works. Thoughts?

I got back up to 240 from 205 six months ago and I've discovered that I need to take things slowly in order to lose weight consistently. I'd probably be at 10% body fat at 185-190, so that's the goal, but my strategy at this juncture is to just keep daily calories below 10x body weight. So since I'm 235 atm, that would be <2350 daily. My guess is this will work, partly because I put back on the 35 pounds by consuming >4000 cals daily

I'm sure he has recommendations on his site (maybe in one of his 30 part articles) but the 10-20 range seems a little extreme. Try something like 11-12 kcal/lb bodyweight for fat loss, 14-15 for maintenance, 16+ for gaining, then adjust accordingly. So someone with a slow metabolism for a bodyweight who is also inactive might have to go below 10, but I probably wouldn't start there.

As a matter of personal preference I don't even count calories to begin with. 1, it's time consuming and 2, estimates of caloric expenditure are just that.. estimates, and it's unrealistic to count calories exactly anyway, unless you never eat out or at family/friends' houses and you are absolutely meticulous about everything. I have done that before and it's not fun, and most people are unable or unwilling to do it.

I think it's better to have a certain baseline of eating and adjust from there. Maybe you eat veggies and eggs cooked in fat with maybe some ham or meat or whatever and a piece of fruit for breakfast. A big salad with meat and cheese for lunch and steak or fish with veggies for dinner with exceptions being made, sometimes you get a dessert or some drinks or a burger and fries, that sort of thing. Then adjust accordingly. For example if I want to gain weight, it's easy enough to add some more carbs to meals, eat more calorically dense foods like nuts or fattier cuts of meat on average. On the other hand, if I want to lose weight, I can trim off some of the extra fat/carbs without radically changing my diet.

[Lukie]

Another thing that is probably underappreciated is just listening to your body. Hunger can get thrown out of whack with modern food choices, but if you base your diet largely around meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruit, nuts, dairy, etc. then hunger actually becomes a useful cue.

That's probably another reason why, IMO, it's better to tell people what TO eat as opposed to telling them what not to eat. Telling someone not to eat cereal and doughnuts doesn't really help if they eat toast and juice instead. I'm definitely not as anti-carb as some but for the majority of the fat, sedentary population, people eat way too many processed carbs. Tell them to eat an omelette with eggs and veggies and a glass of milk, and if they are still hungry, eat what they want..... most people will be satisfied and won't normally eat the junk.

[wufwugy]

Man just talking about lifting makes me nostalgic. I quit several years ago due to so many pains I could barely even walk, but the best I ever felt was also when I was doing body weight power snatches and being accused of juicing by acquaintances.

[JKDS]

Be thankful you weren't wracked with shoulder injuries along the way.

I had 1 that lasted for about a month and a half due to losing control of the bar. That was...fun.

Anyway Thanks Jyms et all! That was pretty helpful!

[Lukie]

Man just talking about lifting makes me nostalgic. I quit several years ago due to so many pains I could barely even walk, but the best I ever felt was also when I was doing body weight power snatches and being accused of juicing by acquaintances.

what's your plan now?

[wufwugy]

what's your plan now?

I've tried everything under the sun to get my pains to go away so I can lift again except for one thing, and that is reverting back to being really lean and flexible like when I didn't eat much and was big into yoga. So I guess I have to do that.

But simply "working out" again will not cut it. I've done that like fifty times and each time my pains come back. It is likely that the reason I was able to weight train in the first place was that I was coming off of a long period of fasting and yoga where I was super flexible, super skinny, and had no pains whatsoever. Then over time it became natural to gain fat while gaining muscle and neglect all the stretching and that brought a whole host of pains with it.

[bigred]

So my fiance finally convinced me to go to a Pilates class with her. I've been saying no to her forever because I figured it was a girly glass I didn't want to be seen in. I finally caved and went. Hooooooooooollllyy shit. That class sucks. That class sucks a bag of dicks. I've never been so miserable in my life. There are muscles that hurt that I didn't know exist until tonight. Shows how pathetic my core really is.

[BennyLaRue]

Diet Mountain Dew

great pain reliever

1000mg of Ibuprofen

internal bleeding

I thought I had lost my ability to ever do a jumping jack

I am not a health professional

Just amazing.

[surviva316]

Just amazing.

I did not read much of that post. I greatly appreciate the cliffs.

[BennyLaRue]

I did not read much of that post. I greatly appreciate the cliffs.

Go back. It's fascinating. There's a subtlety to it that I'm sure I didn't capture.

[Lukie]

I've tried everything under the sun to get my pains to go away so I can lift again except for one thing, and that is reverting back to being really lean and flexible like when I didn't eat much and was big into yoga. So I guess I have to do that.

there's nothing wrong with that at all. find something you enjoy doing and that doesn't cause pain. maybe that's getting lean and taking yoga and playing softball or something similar. health and fitness doesn't revolve around heavy barbell training, despite what many people read on startingstrength or t-nation. now i happen to like heavy weight training, but it's important that people find things that they enjoy and if something causes crippling pain, obviously there is no way you can enjoy it.

But simply "working out" again will not cut it. I've done that like fifty times and each time my pains come back. It is likely that the reason I was able to weight train in the first place was that I was coming off of a long period of fasting and yoga where I was super flexible, super skinny, and had no pains whatsoever. Then over time it became natural to gain fat while gaining muscle and neglect all the stretching and that brought a whole host of pains with it.

[Lukie]

So my fiance finally convinced me to go to a Pilates class with her. I've been saying no to her forever because I figured it was a girly glass I didn't want to be seen in. I finally caved and went. Hooooooooooollllyy shit. That class sucks. That class sucks a bag of dicks. I've never been so miserable in my life. There are muscles that hurt that I didn't know exist until tonight. Shows how pathetic my core really is.

reminds me of a few years ago when this girl convinced me to go to a cardio kickboxing class, after my heavy leg workout. 2 minutes into warmup jumping jacks i felt like i was going to die.

edit: slight exaggeration of course...... but only slight

[NightGizmo]

I've tried everything under the sun to get my pains to go away so I can lift again except for one thing, and that is reverting back to being really lean and flexible like when I didn't eat much and was big into yoga. So I guess I have to do that.

Have you tried martial arts? It emphasizes flexibility along with explosive strength. I took kung fu for about a year (lifted weights during the same period, back when I had more free time) and the classes usually managed to wear me out and leave me with sore muscles I didn't even know existed -- even after months of being in the class.

Side story -- the first time I took the class, I was pretty winded after the warm-up (it was a good warm-up routine). Another student asked me how I was doing, and confided that the first time he took the class, after the warm-up he puked!

[wufwugy]

there's nothing wrong with that at all. find something you enjoy doing and that doesn't cause pain. maybe that's getting lean and taking yoga and playing softball or something similar. health and fitness doesn't revolve around heavy barbell training, despite what many people read on startingstrength or t-nation. now i happen to like heavy weight training, but it's important that people find things that they enjoy and if something causes crippling pain, obviously there is no way you can enjoy it.

To be clear, I'm not saying I enjoy the yoga stuff, just that it appears the reason so many of my pains have been caused from lifting is that I stopped doing the yoga stuff when I first started lifting. When it comes to greatness in exercise as well as physique changes, weight training is kinda unmatched. When I was regularly squatting 350, I felt like I owned everything.

[jyms]

Ya wuff, yoga and weights together and maybe working on range of motion over total weight for a while might help. Try to keep flexibility

[surviva316]

Go back. It's fascinating. There's a subtlety to it that I'm sure I didn't capture.

Okay, I've read the whole post, and I think that "two headed coin" should be added to the cliffs.

[eberetta1]

Do some people actually read threads or just post an answer to OP and move on?

I thought I would answer the persons introductory question since today was the first day I saw this thread and a question was asked. That is how some threads get started. I cannot help you saw this thread before me. I can stay out of this thread if OP does not need or want my input.

Grilled Asparagus, Mashed cauliflower with greek yogurt,garlic and shallots, Romaine lettuce salad with cherry tomatoes, mushrooms, crumbled blue cheese topped with greek yogurt and hot sauce, Shiitake mushrooms grilled upside down with garlic and onion powder, sliced tomato, thin slice of old cheddar or Havarti and jalapeno (or olives if you don't like spicy)

Now before I answer the ??? what goes good with chicken, I thought I'd mention to OP, are you aware some people out there say anytime you cook any food past a certain amount of degrees, you are destroying it's nutritional value. I believe it is smarter to eat a piece of cooked healthy food than to eat an unhealthy uncooked food. So, basically, I am saying, yes I have microwaved a piece of chicken in a pinch instead of grabbing a bag of potato chips and chowing it down for my lunch. Here is an article mentioning how heat can make our food less nutritious...

Does Cooking Food Destroy Nutrients?

Also, as a side note, epidemics happen. With the ingestion of infected animals, an epidemic can more easily be spread. I am a fanatic of chicken my favorite meat, hmm, Church's, Popeye's, KFC. There is seldom a Thanksgiving that I do not have the carcass of a turkey sitting in front of me. If an epidemic happens in the future, it can be spread quickly from our diet of eating birds. What I'd like to say is be careful of the reliance on bird as a way of taking in fuel.

Bird Flu Epidemic Killing Baby Seals - Business Insider

Phew, I'm tired, trudge on. What do I eat with chicken? I eat a slice or two of bread. A packet or spoonful of mayonaisse. I have found that a few slices of apples taste good. A baked potato, mashed, skin on and sprinkle with pepper. I'll eat brown rice. I'll eat green beans or whole kernel corn(not kettle corn). There I have my meat, fruit, and a veggie. I meet so many people who say omg, apples have sugar in them, oh, potatoes have starch. You know what, you get your metabolism at a healthy rate exercising regularly and all these foods burn off just like they did when you ate them as a child. Were you overweight as a child?
--
If the food comes in its own packaging, it is healthier for you. It is the stuff we add to our foods that can make it sinful. A potato is 70 calories. A person is going to tell me they got fat from eating a potato. A person can have 10 potatoes in a day and that equals 700 calories. Would you want to eat 10 potatoes in a day? Now they cannot sit there and add 5 spoons of butter, 5 spoons of sour cream, bacon, bacon bits, seasoned croutons, cheddar cheese, blue cheese, sprinkle cheese, sliced cheese, and parmesan cheese to each potato and say I am eating a healthy lunch. I said a baked potato, skin on with some pepper sprinked on top. The skin is what has the most nutrients. Corn or green beans, good. I call my corn on top of the potatoes Santa Fe style.
---
Aww, Diet Mountain Dew. Almost forgot. I must remember to have some Diet Dew or drink water with my healthy meal, so I don't choke on my chicken. When it comes to my chicken, I am a thigh guy. You can have your legs. You can have your breasts. Say what you will, I will stick with thighs as my favorite piece of chicken.

[surviva316]

This time around, my favorite part was when potato chips were raw.

[NightGizmo]

This time around, my favorite part was when potato chips were raw.

Even better was when we somehow went from "What should I eat with chicken?" to "Cooking destroys food (but I eat it anyway)" and then finally to "Here's a link about how bird flu is killing seals." Flawless transition!

I must remember to have some Diet Dew or drink water with my healthy meal

One of these don't belong! Seriously, do you work for PepsiCo?

[eberetta1]

Okay, Gizmo, I will not use my favorite drink, I'll use liquid in its place, but only you know what I mean when I use the word liquid. I have never worked for Pepsico, and am surprised that you knew who makes my favorite liquid. Is it because you work for Pepsico or a competitor. I digress.

There is a battle going on with drinking liquids during meals. Especially when it comes to our health. One can make us feel fuller sooner.

1. One train of thought is eat, drink liquid, eat, drink liquid.
2. The other being leave the drink there until you are totally finished with
your meal, then consume your drink.

An article if you are interested...

Should I drink water before, during or after eating? - Physical Fitness Beta - Stack Exchange

If you are trying to be fuller sooner and fighting obesity, the correct answer can be a matter of life and death.

Standing or sitting while eating or drinking liquid can have an effect on feeling fuller sooner, also.

[BennyLaRue]

What's your take on soup, then?

[Pascal]

My meals today:

2 eggs for breakfast
Steak, grilled mushrooms, onions, some coleslaw and olives for lunch
Grilled chicken skewers with peppers and a side salad for dinner
Blueberries for after gym snack

Did some weights and cardio in the gym, felt good but sore now.

Bit fed up of drinking just water and no soda - is milk OK? Fat free best?

[Hawk]

My meals today:

2 eggs for breakfast
Steak, grilled mushrooms, onions, some coleslaw and olives for lunch
Grilled chicken skewers with peppers and a side salad for dinner
Blueberries for after gym snack

Replace all of that with Diet Mt Dew and you'll be set!

[JKDS]

[a500lbgorilla]

Just amazing.

Hahaha, I want to hang the reduced version on my wall.

[Lukie]

chicken.....

1. roast a whole chicken in a roasting pan

2. eat a lot of chicken. i like serving it with white wine, a salad, and perhaps another side

3. peel off meat from left over chicken and put in the fridge. there might be a lot. this is good.

4. save the carcass/extra bones and skin, and cooking juices. easy to make stock from this.

5. for next couple days, throw leftover meat into scrambled eggs, stir-fries, salads, and soups (very easy to make soup from stock). or use as the main ingredient in another meal.


voila... tasty, easy, cheap, and time-efficient when you consider how many meals you can make and/or enhance.

[jyms]

My meals today:

2 eggs for breakfast
Steak, grilled mushrooms, onions, some coleslaw and olives for lunch
Grilled chicken skewers with peppers and a side salad for dinner
Blueberries for after gym snack

Did some weights and cardio in the gym, felt good but sore now.

Bit fed up of drinking just water and no soda - is milk OK? Fat free best?

That's awesome, just keep switching the proteins, beef, pork, chicken. And keep switching up the veggies and salads and you'll be set. Let's see how you feel after two weeks.

Also, if your missing soda, try drinking club soda, 0 kcals. Squeeze 1/4 lemon or lime into a huge glass and you will get the bubbles with a really healthy dose of Vit C and citrus.

[eberetta1]

JKDS, the video, great.

I was at a cabin for a week, and a friend of mine thought he'd have some fun at my expense and hide a bottle of my... liquid. He was laughing his arse off. I was ready to walk 11 miles to the Y store. But first, I went in the steam room pretending I needed to brush my teeth and took some swigs from my backup. Everyone who loves their liquid has a back up. Got about 3 little ones I barely knew yelling at their uncle for hiding my liquid, and 5 adults started in on him. I sat down, and stood up and paced all over the place.I told the kids, I can't see without my liquid, and would bang into chairs or tables acting as if I were blind. Oh, I had a fun time with that one. Everyone apologized for my friends behavior. Everyone was handing me my favorite liquid the rest of that trip. They mentioned we never knew you were that addicted to liquid.

I, of course have to get even with the prankster. I proceeded to tell his newbie would be moose hunting companion that moose lose up to four quarts of blood a day from mosquito bites, how much blood is in a human. His friend hates mosquitoes. And you think you are not going to get bit by mosquitoes on your moose hunting trip? His eyes got bigger. My friend, the one who pulled his liquid hiding stunt on me, said, hey, quit your lying. It has taken me three months to get him to agree to go moose hunting. I said, yea and you never told him what he is getting himself into...

[kiwiMark]

That's awesome, just keep switching the proteins, beef, pork, chicken. And keep switching up the veggies and salads and you'll be set. Let's see how you feel after two weeks.

Also, if your missing soda, try drinking club soda, 0 kcals. Squeeze 1/4 lemon or lime into a huge glass and you will get the bubbles with a really healthy dose of Vit C and citrus.

What's your thoughts on juice (say store-bought but not-from-concentrate)? Obviously not in the place of water but in the place of post-workout fruit snack or whenever else small amounts of fruit are acceptable that I missed.

[jyms]

What would be the purpose of the juice? Then we could decide on whether it was the best choice. Simple answer, juice is just pop without bubbles. Post workout it would only be used to replenish glycogen. Which in it self is ok, but there are better choices.

[kiwiMark]

Just since he mentioned the water only thing is wearing on him more than the food, wondered if rocking some juice or a smoothie every now and then instead of fruit might help

[kiwiMark]

Oh this is kind of weird and might only be me, but it might be worth grabbing a sipper bottle if you don't have one (I'm rocking a hot pink Highland Spring one myself which set me back like 30p or something).
For some reason I hardly ever think to - or enjoy - drinking water if it's from a glass, but if I have a sipper bottle full of water around me throughout the day then I drink enough, perversely kind of enjoy the water, and since my thirst is quenched the thought of fizz or whatever other flavoured drinks you're used to doesn't really pop up.

Has to be a sipper bottle though, screwtops don't cut it. Not sure if it's too much effort to unscrew the cap versus just lifting and drinking, reminds me in some subconscious way of sports activities, or I just have a freudian obsession with nipples.

[Pascal]

Haha was thinking earlier that it's so weird it tastes better out of a sipper bottle, got one with me now. Had chicken, lettuce, olives, coleslaw, asparagus and butternut squash in a salad for lunch/hungover recovery, playing poker today so gonna cheat on no carbs today and have beef noodles for dinner from local Chinese place

[jyms]

Poliquin Blog - Tip 497: Warm-Up Tips To Get Stronger & Faster: Don’t Waste Time Stretching

[Pascal]

Only had one meal yesterday - salmon, salad, coleslaw, beansprouts and tomatoes. Spent some time in the gym doing sprint intervals on the bike & rowing machine and some upper body stuff. Stretched after a short warm up jog and muscles feel much better today than after any other session.

[Lukie]

What would be the purpose of the juice? Then we could decide on whether it was the best choice. Simple answer, juice is just pop without bubbles. Post workout it would only be used to replenish glycogen. Which in it self is ok, but there are better choices.

Juice is more like fruit without the fiber/bulk/skin. I'm talking about good juice anyway, not sugar water with 10% added juice or whatever. But even if juice might not fit into a particular person's macronutrient profile, you can't say that 100% natural orange juice is the same thing as sugar syrup + carbonated water.

[Pascal]

So, used the magic machine at the gym today to find out what I'm made of.

Height: 6' 2.4"
Weight: 14st 5lb (91.5kg)
Body fat %: 14.8%
Body fat mass: 13.5kg

Which makes my lean weight 78kg so I want to be eating like at least 78g of protein a day?

Not sure what to eat for dinner but I liked the sound of mashed cauliflower so leaning towards pork with leeks and that.

Thanks for the help so far by the way guys!

[wufwugy]

15% bf is lean as shit for somebody who thinks they're overweight

[jyms]

And would require more than just some exercise and eating healthy to make any significant changes

Your 6'2" and weight 201 and think you should lose weight?? I'm 6'3" and weight 235 and feel like I should lose 20lbs at the most

[wufwugy]

He could probably lose a few points of bf by doing regular cardio with addition of HIIT or regular resistance training

[kiwiMark]

Maybe the machine just isn't so magical?

I'm guessing jyms has a lot more muscle weight than pascal etc.

[Pascal]

I guess the weight is just in bad places then. I'd like to tone up, get fitter (run further) and get stronger. Is eating plenty of protein + good diet + weights + cardio going to do that?

I'm happy with not losing weight and just toning up. Also, I mentioned my weight and my height on the first page (Thanks for the advice. I'm slightly overweight (~210 pounds I guess, 6'2" or so)), must have lost a little since I last weighed myself a few months ago.

Basically, I have a beer belly and it pisses me off and needs to go asap. Please help me do this, apart from standing too close to a swinging blade

[wufwugy]

I guess the weight is just in bad places then. I'd like to tone up, get fitter (run further) and get stronger. Is eating plenty of protein + good diet + weights + cardio going to do that?

Yes. As long as it's consistent and hard work is involved

[JKDS]

Post a picture!

[jyms]

Post a picture!

Perve

[wufwugy]

If you're a true 15%, you'd probably prefer to gain muscle than lose fat. People tend to not consider others starting to look fat until around 18%, and 12% is generally quite lean. 10% territory is like 16 yr old lean

[Lukie]

Post a picture!

kind of necessary, actually

Having a beer belly strongly suggests that a male is well above 15% bodyfat.

[Pascal]

Haha now I get the feeling I'll post a picture and you guys will be like wtf there's no beer belly there. I was thin as hell until a couple of years ago so anything else feels weird.

The machine could definitely be wrong, idk. I found a random chart that says for a medium frame I should be 164-178 pounds, which would put my lean mass at 74kg to 80.7kg. Being at the bottom of that would mean I'm an extra 4kg over, putting my body fat at 23% not 15%.

Here's an (awful) picture:

Spoiler: Show

[BennyLaRue]

Hard to tell with one pic but isn't some of that posture? You look like your hips are rolled forward, which causes you to stick out your butt and conversely, your gut.

[Pascal]

Haha yeah that may overemphasise it a bit but still, I'm way "fatter" in my stomach than I was a couple of years ago and I'd like to lose it/tone it or whatever terminology is

Also, it's fucking hard to take a picture of yourself like that in the mirror. How do girls on Facebook make it look so easy?

[Lukie]

Bodyfat distribution varies but at 15% bodyfat, as a male, you can expect to minimal visceral fat (i.e. have a flat stomach) with at least some abdominal definition. Visual estimates are always tough but even moreso due to pic quality, but I'd say you are closer to 25% than 15%.

I have never heard of a 'magic machine' before. Through what method does it measure bodyfat?

[jyms]

No chance at 15%. I've seen guys with slight definition of abs at 15%. Without knowing your hydration level there is no way to know your BF% accurately without calipers. See if anyone in your area does better body fat tests if your worried about a number. Bodpod or calipers will do a better job. The bio-electric scales aren't very good, particularly the hand held units.

[Pascal]

Thanks guys. So I'm cool to follow your advice for weight loss rather than having to worry about something else?

The machine was the same height as me, had to hold on to two handles.

Jyms - I'm not worried about a number too much, just thought it might be something you guys would find useful.

Ended up grating the cauliflower tonight and frying it with eggs and pork cos I don't have any utensils to make mash with. Really tasty and had a side salad, olives and coleslaw to go with it again.

Tomorrow is salmon salad for lunch and then something with chicken for dinner, not sure yet.