The Flavour of the Time

[a500lbgorilla]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

Saw this on 2+2 this morning and left it to load on my comp. My roommate said he watched it and was blown away. I'm just about done with it and I love it.

It's a documentary called Zeitgeist dealing with Christianity, 911 and the Federal Reserve. It's the first conspiracy theory documentary that gave me a rush.

[XTR1000]

wow. that RFID shit is scary

[givememyleg]

well i've hated every conspiracy theory video i've ever seen but i'll give this a watch sometime later i guess... time to go hustle at the pool hall

[IowaSkinsFan]

Isn't this really really long?

[BankItDrew]

I'm an atheist. This video gave me a hard-on, just like spoons old avatar.

Thanks for posting this.

[sauce123]

I'm an atheist. This video gave me a hard-on, just like spoons old avatar.

Thanks for posting this.

given i havent watched the video and dont know what its about, this is one of the most intriguing and hilarious posts i have ever seen

[will641]

I'm an atheist. This video gave me a hard-on, just like spoons old avatar.

Thanks for posting this.

given i havent watched the video and dont know what its about, this is one of the most intriguing and hilarious posts i have ever seen

its about how christianity controls society, that 9/11 was a demolition, and how the Fed controls our money and its going to lead to one world government or some shit like that. the reviewer isnt great, but its better than watching the whole thing only to find out its the exact same shit, just a different title.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06...reviews-z.html

[jyms]

Great find Rilla. I knew most of this shit anyway but not in the details provided. Seeing it all in one fell swoop is great. There is no way to convince the close minded though, they see this as the propaganda and not proof.

[bigred]

Don't post this or they'll get you too!!!!

Has anyone seen that Anon hacker group war declaration on the scientologists?

[givememyleg]

Great find Rilla. I knew most of this shit anyway but not in the details provided. Seeing it all in one fell swoop is great. There is no way to convince the close minded though, they see this as the propaganda and not proof.

meh, anything can be seen as real with some spooky music, a captivating voice over and some scary images/video. there's so many conspiracy theory's thought up and everyone that i've seen so far is just ridiculous. and no i didn't watch this yet.

[Deanglow]

If you think 9/11 was a conspiracy, you are a fucking moron and I hope you never have kids.

[bigred]

If you think 9/11 was a conspiracy, you are a fucking moron and I hope you never have kids.

Good argument, owns any other evidence.

[will641]

If you think 9/11 was a conspiracy, you are a fucking moron and I hope you never have kids.

Good argument, owns any other evidence.

its not worth arguing with people over. its like arguing with a bible thumper that god didnt create the earth. waste of time. conspiracy theorists blatantly lie to their audience, make misleading claims, and never tell both sides accurately.

[Warpe]

Isn't this really really wrong?

fyp

[Ash256]

Of course it's all leading to globalisation and all that NWO shit.

But honestly, what can anyone do about it? Nothing.

A few stoned middle class college kids making illuminati conspiracy videos on their macs (whilst daddy's probably at a Freemasons meeting) won't change anything.

[Deanglow]

Great find Rilla. I knew most of this shit anyway but not in the details provided. Seeing it all in one fell swoop is great. There is no way to convince the close minded though, they see this as the propaganda and not proof.

No offense, but this is really awful.

[XTR1000]

If you think 9/11 was a conspiracy, you are a fucking moron and I hope you never have kids.

this sounds so weird to non-US ears

[will641]

here's what i think. i think that anybody who is believes this stuff is anti-bush (very anti-bush) and anti-republican and will believe any piece of garbage that is thrown their way that says the government controls everything and the government is evil. and before anyone jumps to any conclusions, i am not a bush lover. to reference south park, both elections were between a douche and a turd sandwich, and the turd sandwich won both.

[jyms]

lol

[givememyleg]

Nice rebuttal!

[jyms]

there is nothing to say. I will never convince someone otherwise. But speaking form a non US perspective, there is a lot of wool and a lot of eyes.

[givememyleg]

damn canadians.....

[will641]

there is nothing to say. I will never convince someone otherwise. But speaking form a non US perspective, there is a lot of wool and a lot of eyes.

yes you are correct. you will never convince me that 9/11's mastermind was the U.S. government w/o evidence. thats the key word here, evidence. i guess the fact that jihadists take great pride in it is irrelevant, not to mention the tons of (lets use this key word here) evidence that says otherwise?

while were at it, why dont we just ignore the fact that credible engineers will tell you this is crap? and while im fairly sure you won't read this because you aren't interested in what i have to say, or so it would seem, i am going to post a link to a very good popular mechanics article that debunks 9/11 myths for those of you who arent sure or want to learn more.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...w/1227842.html

[jyms]

wow. Will? watch the movie. Or watch loose change. Stop believing what people tell you, make up your own mind. The same people telling you these things have already strted sneaking things into the homleand security act to wipe out your freedoms, or do you forget UIEGA

[jyms]

And Who's evidence do you want to believe? I guess it comes down to trust. You trust the government.

[Bmxicle]

I gave up when they started playing a george carlin tape. That's not to detract from carlin, but am i supposed to take this seriously when they are using a comedian to prove their point?

[bode]

...Stop believing what people tell you, make up your own mind.

seriously? Hes quoting a reputable publication filled with professional licensed engineers and your touting some conspiracy theory video. Put down the blue kool aid jyms.

[jyms]

wow, bode.

[bode]

i guess i should have said that i was only talking about the 9/11 shit. I thought it would be obv. with the article that he posted from pop mechanics.

[will641]

And Who's evidence do you want to believe? I guess it comes down to trust. You trust the government.

thank you for proving my previous point. this comes down to the fact that you dont like how the u.s. government is run, which is fine, you are entitled to that. but last i checked, i wasn't citing donald rumsfeld's analysis. and trust has nothing to do with it. the fact of the matter is any 9/11 conspiracy can be debunked by science, or by various other facts such as the terrorists taking credit for it.

[sauce123]

ive gotta watch this now lol, im like a us citizen who doesnt rly trust the govt i cant wait to make an inflammatory post!

[sauce123]

also dont miss the pun its very subtle

[Jack Sawyer]

If you think 9/11 was a conspiracy, you are a fucking moron and I hope you never have kids.

this sounds so weird to non-US ears

QFT

[will641]

and btw, as far as the 9/11 videos goes...seen one seen 'em all. massimo was convinced that it was a conspiracy too because of this video he watched. a friend and i looked up their claims, and found most if not all to be bogus. now he is been deprogrammed not to mention the fact that they are constantly cutting in and out of interviews to manipulate what they say. and it seemed very plausible (although its difficult to prove this) that they used footage from the first WTC attacks in the early '90's, which was in fact an attempted demolition, and failed.

[sauce123]

i mean, given the literally thousands of mainstream media outlets pushing one story, I would say this is highly unlikely to be correct, specially without doing a TON of research to even find if any of their evidence is correct. that being said parts of it r very interesting and original. note: have not finished yet.

[Jack Sawyer]

The 911 shit just doesn't add up.

But nobody will ever change headstrong people's minds about it.
Whatever evidence brought up, there is always counterevidence or, my favourite, "LIES!" .
Its just an exercise in futility. Wasted cycles.


Just believe whatever you want.

[vqc]

the funniest thing is when people watch this video and the first thing they say is "omg dont believe the propaganda of the gov't and news outlets, Zeitgeist is the truth".
Honestly, everyone likes new toys and exciting things, but to jump on the Zetigeist band wagon after watching the video is just as closed minding.

How is it possible that you can in one fell swoop reject all the information from one group, and then accept all the information from another group, without doing any research on the subject yourself? It just doesn't make any sense.

[vqc]

I'm an atheist. This video gave me a hard-on, just like spoons old avatar.

Thanks for posting this.

given i havent watched the video and dont know what its about, this is one of the most intriguing and hilarious posts i have ever seen

its about how christianity controls society, that 9/11 was a demolition, and how the Fed controls our money and its going to lead to one world government or some shit like that. the reviewer isnt great, but its better than watching the whole thing only to find out its the exact same shit, just a different title.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06...reviews-z.html

I read the review and then looked at the sources.

Even ethically challenged lawyers have better citations than that random collection of webpages and books. Its like the authors shotgunned a bunch of books in your face and said "haha, good luck verifying everything that we said."

To be fair, I really enjoy conspiracy theory movies. I love watching the moon landing ones. Its just that if I'm going to be a skeptic, I've gotta be skeptical about everything.

BTW, the Earth is flat and theres a whole web forum dedicated to it.

[sinky]

BTW, the Earth is flat and theres a whole web forum dedicated to it.

and online poker is rigged !!!!!!

[Jack Sawyer]

LOL, some dude on digg decidedly ambivalent statements

I see no attempt in this movie to apply real reasoning and logic. It is as bad at reason as the nazi propaganda alluded to in the movie.

A classic case of what you can do if you mix facts with a large amount of conjecture and paranoia and lead the viewer the "connect the dots". The originator of this movie is guilty of the same crime as he accuses the powerful in his movie of - leading the dumb "viewer" to make links that cannot be proven but are suggested by giving them a whole pile of "dots" to follow.

There are many things in this movie that may be true. Others that i agree with, but the connections made are iffy and too loose to base any "revolution" upon.

But what are you saying??? How else should the connections have been made???

[Numbr2intheWorld]

and btw, as far as the 9/11 videos goes...seen one seen 'em all. massimo was convinced that it was a conspiracy too because of this video he watched. a friend and i looked up their claims, and found most if not all to be bogus. now he is been deprogrammed not to mention the fact that they are constantly cutting in and out of interviews to manipulate what they say. and it seemed very plausible (although its difficult to prove this) that they used footage from the first WTC attacks in the early '90's, which was in fact an attempted demolition, and failed.

Yeah, i can confirm this. I watched a more underground 9/11 video called "911 mysteries" ( i think). I watched it with my friend who is into conspiracy theories and i was 100% convinced the 9/11 was a government conspiracy, and all the building that fell that day were done by a controlled demolition.

Will was constantly nagging me about this, i was in denial. Finally he and one of my other friends watched the video together, and then they paused it at parts that were shady and showed me tons of information to debunk what the video said. It was obvious that the video clearly lies in some parts.

[XTR1000]

The whole 9/11 discission is a question of faith and not of evidence nowadays. Just as the govt would be able to hold evidence back and misinform the public, any conspirancy theory can be puzzled together and sold to the skeptical viewer.


I don´t jump into the 9/11 debate, b/c it´s not possible to convince someone who is believing in his point of view. I do accept, that there´s a chance 9/11 attacks weren´t planned by arabian terrorists, I do accept as well that the official statements could be the truth; I´m not informed enough to decide which theory has the greater likelihood.

What really makes me sick is how every govt in the western world used the terorism discussion to cut down civil rights and limit our personal freedom. When I want to travel to the US they want my fingerprints, Iris scan, acces to my phone bills and what not. Even our govt passes new laws, threatening out dataprotection, trying to create the "glass citizen", storing tons of data, allowing online searching and cutting down banking confidentially. The public should be more aware that our privacy is in danger.

[jyms]

BTW, This movie did not convince me. I have had my beliefs since probably a month after it happened. I also think the conspiracy minded are working too hard to prove their point. But, there are way too many holes, to believe that it has gone down exactly as presented. I guess you need to find where you think the line is drawn.

[vqc]

I guess you need to find where you think the line is drawn.

Ya, that seems to be the hardest part about everything.

[Jack Sawyer]

Zeitgeist The Movie, Remastered/Final Version released February 2008

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...83847743189197


Zeitgeist: Addendum (part 2 if you may) released October 2008

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912

[a500lbgorilla]

maybe I'll give this another watch. I wish I posted my thoughts about it the first time I saw it so I could see how they've changed.

[Galapogos]

I watched the one about the federal reserve/economy and found it really interesting. I need to get around to watching the others.

[jyms]

Thanks Jack, Addendum was really good. A little over the top at times with the corny production but the message was clear.

[Ash256]

It's very good that people are opening up a bit & that a rennaisance of sorts is occuring, but:-

a) A fair amount of that stuff is horseshit & misquoted
b) ANYTHING that tries that hard to play to the strongest human emotions is obviously trying to make up for something.


Having said that, the ideas in addendum are good, pity the sources are either non-existent or generally shit

[a500lbgorilla]

I don't like his opening premise: institutions shape us. We shape institutions. It's not a chicken and the egg, we came first. Do the ants make the colony or does the colony make the ants?

[BankItDrew]

I like this stuff but hate Alex Jones.

[jyms]

Why not ask the people that created UIEGA

[a500lbgorilla]

Addendum was excellent. Especially the clean energy section. I love docus that leave me in a sense of shellshock from everything I just took in.

[2_Thumbs_Up]

Nice thread. I never thought I'd see a truther discussion on FTR. I haven't seen the second Zeitgeist yet, got to do that later. I find these videos increadibly interesting even though I don't believe most of it. Another good one is:

America: Freedom to Fascism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

[Renton]

I watched zeitgeist back when it came out, and just watched addendum yesterday.

I think theres a ton of truth to what they say. However, the creators of these films are obviously not even first year college intellect. In the first one (until i think it was eventually fixed in an update), there were a lot of grammatical and pronunciation fuckups, like pronouncing colonel CUH LOWN AL. So when you see shit like that it puts of stigma on everything and makes it much less credible.

As for the 9/11 conspiracy shit, its pretty obvious to me that it was a conspiracy on some level.

It definitely wasn't a controlled demolition, and it almost definitely wasn't directly perpetrated by the government or by the "corporatocracy," but I believe that it was most likely "let happen," just like the Lusitania was provoked/allowed to be destroyed in WW1 and just like Pearl Harbor was provoked/allowed to be surprise attacked in WWII.

[Renton]

Oh yeah and Kennedy was a roflconspiracy for sure. The evidence is overwhelming that it was. And as such this is proof that no matter how obvious it ever is that we're being fucked with, nothing will ever get done about it.

[Renton]

I gave up when they started playing a george carlin tape. That's not to detract from carlin, but am i supposed to take this seriously when they are using a comedian to prove their point?

a) Using levity to make something boring more interesting is an acceptable form of filmmaking.

b) Passing off George Carlin as just a comedian is just wrong. This guy was easily one of the most important people of the last century, probably THE only counter-culture figure to achieve mainstream fame.

[a500lbgorilla]

I rented War, Inc yesterday and found a very amusing parallel to this docu today. Very curious but you might find it a very amusing movie if you liked the Addendum docu.

[bode]

wow. Will? watch the movie. Or watch loose change. Stop believing what people tell you, make up your own mind. The same people telling you these things have already strted sneaking things into the homleand security act to wipe out your freedoms, or do you forget UIEGA

this is still one of the funniest thing i've read since joining FTR 2.5 years ago.

[Galapogos]

Ha! You're right, that [i]is[/b] funny.

[flomo]

who cares who did it.

lets just go bomb the shit out of more crappy countries

GO USA!

i say we pull out of iraq, just so we can bomb them from the air

[Jack Sawyer]

i say we pull out of iraq, just so we can bomb them from the air

LOL

[Galapogos]

Ha! You're right, that [i]is[/b] funny.

n00b

[Renton]

i say we pull out of iraq, just so we can bomb them from the air

LOL

yeah we should pull out of iraq and then shoot a few ropes all over her face

[wufwugy]

i have done no research on 9/11 so i wont comment on it

but i will say that the only 'conspiracy theory' i like is the one Eisenhower warned us about while he was in office, the military-industrial complex. a great documentary on it is Why We Fight by Robert Greenwald

[a500lbgorilla]

I'll say this. Addendum had an impact on me.

[UG]

I'll say this. Addendum had an impact on me.

I finally got around to watching this video and I feel the same way.

Wow.

[flomo]

i say we pull out of iraq, just so we can bomb them from the air

LOL

yeah we should pull out of iraq and then shoot a few ropes all over her face

A+

9/11 conspiracy is like the online poker conspiracy

[a500lbgorilla]

you can basically ignore the 9/11 conspiracy stuff imo. The real good stuff is in Addendum.

[Thunder]

wow. Will? watch the movie. Or watch loose change.

I watched Loose Change and found it startling but when I went to research further I discovererd that even 9/11 conspiracy nuts disown and belittle this documentary and its makers.

Its just that if I'm going to be a skeptic, I've gotta be skeptical about everything.

The most sensible - and healthy - stance to take IMO. Paranormal investigators have to be cynical in order to give them the best chance of discovering true paranormal activity.

And this leads me on to what I was going to say originally - there is obviously some middle ground that is the optimum point to be at. We all know our governments are shady and aren't whiter than white. We accept that though movies aren't real, the topics & concepts many films touch on are. Yet we lack the killer proof of something nasty, like 9/11, moon landings, brainwashing the world, the royal family are lizards from another planet etc. So rather than firmly believe one side over the other - which is retarded and drone like - be wary of both. Be cynical. Don't be too trusting. Of either.

[a500lbgorilla]

I find it funny that people want the moon landings to be fake. The most extraordinary thing humans have accomplished and our world is still so screwy that members of our ranks think it may not have happened. Crazy mixed-up world, imo

[Thunder]

As for what can we do to prevent a NWO - everything we can. Just sitting back and accepting it has already led to stripped civil liberties - the more sinister elements of which we have been warned about for decades (Orwell) and centuries (Shakespeare). I guess human nature ensures that greed & power will continually challenge equality and needs to be put back in its place each time. Unfortunately, they jump on emotional instances (like 9/11) to inveigle and gain controls easier than they otherwise could.

The French may wind everybody up by striking over the smallest thing but at least they don't let themselves get walked over. Unlike the UK where we moan about things but don't take a stance. Just look at the London congestion charge. The Italians brought theirs crashing to the ground as no one paid. With us though, we do pay up. And now one is planned for Manchester. Then other cities. And then it will spread to towns and villages and before you know it the whole country is engulfed.

Same goes for civil liberties. Too many films, books, voices have warned of the creeping take over and the weak arguments to justify it. 60 years ago Orwell was warning of the "if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear" mindset. The same one used by the SS on its own people. The same one being used now for approval of DNA samples of everyone, CCTV on every street (which will them spread to every home). Just one step at a time and with the idiocy of sheep population backing each one, before you know it, welcome to totalitarianism.

Even worse than allowing us to be rolled over, that attitude of "if you aren't guilty you have nothing to fear... leads to people turning on people. Just like under the Nazi regime, children turning in their parents, and ratting on others just because they don't like the look of them.

You have nothing to fear unless you're guilty. Okay. But God help you if someone thinks you are. And it's not just fancy fuction or Nazi-ism. It's always been happening: Afghanistan, Iraq, Zimbabwe, Rwanda. Even in the bible!

[Thunder]

I find it funny that people want the moon landings to be fake.

I saw a few documentaries about the landings being fake and I believed them. Then I saw a documentary where a NASA scientist was confronted with such evidence and he debunked them with science fact (apparently). So for the most part, he gave equally credible reasons against fakery as did the conspiracists. However, it was noticeable that he didn't answer 2 claims.

One was how a chest mounted camera could take face level shots of other astronauts and also frame the picture perfectly without any form of viewfinder. The second was the series of photographs that showed the cameras cross hairs behind objects in the frame. With all the other claims he took great pride in offering detailed explanations but here he just said "some people just like to not believe" and simply avoided answering.

Other claims not debunked:
How certain objects are perfectly lighted, even in isolation and that even though the photos were numbered, some shots were non sequential. Eg: Aldrin on the moon was shot 3 but Aldrin climbing out of the Eagle was shot 8.

So I am in the middle of the whole moon landing debacle until I get sound explanations/evidence for all the claims. NASA missed a big chance IMO by ducking those questions.

[a500lbgorilla]

You waste a lot of time as an aerospace engineering major going over these missions.

And they did a really cool docu about the whole thing.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/nasa/nasa.html