FTP just went down... Hard.

[aka_red]

Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence | eGaming Review

...awkward

[lolzzz_321]

All games stopped

[eugmac]

My FTP client can't connect to the server. I'm in Germany.

[lolzzz_321]

Ya, they're completely down.

[rong]

Oh bugger!

[Shotglass]

Wonder if Howard's ready to comment yet:

Howard Lederer Sighting In Las Vegas QuadJacks Poker News | Quadjacks | Poker Radio | Poker Videos

[bikes]

Breaking news: Alderney suspends Full Tilt's{spam link}operating licence | eGaming Review

FYP

sucks for everyone =(

[celtic123]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...hl=en_US&pli=1

[oskar]

This is so fucking terrible for what is left of online poker.

[rpm]

makes me sick

[andy-akb]

wheeeeeeeeee. was getting used to the positive news that was coming out and then wake up this morning to play and see that. wp alderney, wp.

my optimistic side hopes that FT will move their servers under the jurisdiction of kahnawake and continue operating while still seeking out an investor. maybe alderney's actions were right from the regulatory point of view, but it fucks the players over hard because that makes it even less likely somebody will invest in the company. the majority of people that are playing at FT dont know about all the stuff that is going on, and while it is dishonest, the longer the general public is able to stay ignorant and keep playing, the better it is for FT and for the players.

i strongly believe that as long as the site is able to operate smoothly, we will get our money back because they will generate money and are likely to find an investor. in order for this not to be a huge blow to their business, they need to get their servers back up asap and likely place a limit on withdrawals so there isnt an even larger run on the bank.

[BennyLaRue]

wheeeeeeeeee. was getting used to the positive news that was coming out and then wake up this morning to play and see that. wp alderney, wp.

my optimistic side hopes that FT will move their servers under the jurisdiction of kahnawake and continue operating while still seeking out an investor. maybe alderney's actions were right from the regulatory point of view, but it fucks the players over hard because that makes it even less likely somebody will invest in the company. the majority of people that are playing at FT dont know about all the stuff that is going on, and while it is dishonest, the longer the general public is able to stay ignorant and keep playing, the better it is for FT and for the players.

i strongly believe that as long as the site is able to operate smoothly, we will get our money back because they will generate money and are likely to find an investor. in order for this not to be a huge blow to their business, they need to get their servers back up asap and likely place a limit on withdrawals so there isnt an even larger run on the bank.

CLIFFS: You want the company to be able to continue to fuck over ignorant people on the small chance they'll use the ignorant ppl's money to pay you back.

[andy-akb]

CLIFFS: You want the company to be able to continue to fuck over ignorant people on the small chance they'll use the ignorant ppl's money to pay you back.

no. i think people are panicking like crazy, and obv it is understandable why, but everybody cashing out immediately does nothing to actually help them cashout. FT is run horribly, we all know that now and if we had known that before then I am sure that less people would be playing there; however, that wasnt the case and we didnt realize this until it was too late.

right now FT is short on cash and cannot immediately pay back Int'l or US players in a timely fashion [I have a cashout that has been pending for 3 weeks, others have cashouts pending for longer], but i strongly believe that they are in fact trying to find investors so that they are able to make things as right as they can. if everybody cashouts out and stops playing there two things will happen, 1. they arent actually going to get that cashout because they arent clearing in reasonable timeframes, and 2. the larger the debt and the lower the player base the less likely they are to find an investor willing to take over the debts

this isnt trying to fuck anybody over in the least, and people need to realize that a run on the bank doesnt help anybody BECAUSE THEY CANT PAY US RIGHT NOW. yea it sucks, if they were processing the next X transactions only and i wished people didnt know about it so I could get a spot in the queue then i would be taking advantage of those people, but if they simply arent processing transactions right now, then i am not taking advantage of anybody and by saying people should continue to play there it is helping everybody get paid back, regardless of the amount of information those individual players have.

simply put, nobody is going to get their money quickly, so it isnt an option of quitting and getting your money or continuing to play and not get it. the options are quit and maybe get your money in >1 month and decrease the sites' revenues making it less likely they can actually pay, or play during that time to help generate revenue for the site so more people can get paid

[Shotglass]

no. i think people are panicking like crazy, and obv it is understandable why, but everybody cashing out immediately does nothing to actually help them cashout.

According to the commission's statement, FTP cannot:

•  Register new customers;
   Accept deposits from existing customers;
   Allow existing customers to withdraw funds that are held in their accounts; and
   Permit customers to participate in any form of poker game play or gambling transaction.

so there's no rush of people trying to cash out right now :P

Here's a link to the press release:http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...n%20290611.pdf

[BennyLaRue]

right now FT is short on cash and cannot immediately pay back Int'l or US players in a timely fashion [I have a cashout that has been pending for 3 weeks, others have cashouts pending for longer], but i strongly believe that they are in fact trying to find investors so that they are able to make things as right as they can.

I guess this is where we differ. I've never understood why people feel it's a realistic scenario that an investor will swoop in and contribute funds to pay debts that were effectively borrowed in order to burn. What would this individual be buying? Certainly not a brand; it was seriously tarnished even before this. Not a player pool...a not-insignificant percentage of FTP players are just interested in getting their cash and moving it somewhere else or getting out of poker altogether until rosier times. There are no other assets to speak of.

[boost]

I guess this is where we differ. I've never understood why people feel it's a realistic scenario that an investor will swoop in and contribute funds to pay debts that were effectively borrowed in order to burn. What would this individual be buying? Certainly not a brand; it was seriously tarnished even before this. Not a player pool...a not-insignificant percentage of FTP players are just interested in getting their cash and moving it somewhere else or getting out of poker altogether until rosier times. There are no other assets to speak of.

The software, the Rush Poker patent.

[andy-akb]

I guess this is where we differ. I've never understood why people feel it's a realistic scenario that an investor will swoop in and contribute funds to pay debts that were effectively borrowed in order to burn. What would this individual be buying? Certainly not a brand; it was seriously tarnished even before this. Not a player pool...a not-insignificant percentage of FTP players are just interested in getting their cash and moving it somewhere else or getting out of poker altogether until rosier times. There are no other assets to speak of.

The software, the Rush Poker patent.

Yea, a lot of the regs want to cash out, but they cant. I guarantee that if an investor came in and allowed things to go back to normal [i.e. fast cashouts] and provided new management, then more people would stick around. Further, even if all regs leave, that will still leave a huge player base and the games will be incredibly soft. At that point, if regs feel like their money is safe, which it likely would be under new management and with a significant investment, then many would return to play this super fishy player pool. Even after all this stuff has gone down, FT was still almost 3x larger than party poker. To say that they dont have a player base to invest in is foolish. They have a huge player pool even if thousands of regs leave, and that is worth a lot of money under the right management and as Boost said, they have valuable patents that are also worth money to other site operators.

There are definitely investors out there that will buy the company, they just need the right terms and FT has been unwilling to accept those terms, but this very well could be what was needed to get them to accept a new majority stakeholder in the company.

[Nekrogovner]

I guess this is where we differ. I've never understood why people feel it's a realistic scenario that an investor will swoop in and contribute funds to pay debts that were effectively borrowed in order to burn. What would this individual be buying? Certainly not a brand; it was seriously tarnished even before this. Not a player pool...a not-insignificant percentage of FTP players are just interested in getting their cash and moving it somewhere else or getting out of poker altogether until rosier times. There are no other assets to speak of.

Even after the black friday, how much do you assume that FTP earned each day on rake? Based on player pool of 80k players during peak 8 hours, I would assume that at least 1M$ of rake is generated each day. Or that seems too bold of an assumption?

I'm not a businessman but seems like a good idea to invest into something like that.

[Fnord]

I guess this is where we differ. I've never understood why people feel it's a realistic scenario that an investor will swoop in and contribute funds to pay debts that were effectively borrowed in order to burn. What would this individual be buying? Certainly not a brand; it was seriously tarnished even before this. Not a player pool...a not-insignificant percentage of FTP players are just interested in getting their cash and moving it somewhere else or getting out of poker altogether until rosier times. There are no other assets to speak of.

Brand still has value to the fish (the people who really matter.) That's still got to be worth a few million. You could bring in someone to clean up the credibility problem (like Lee Jones.)

I would estimate the cost of getting a poker platform up from scratch hiring in Silicon Valley to be under 10 million, maybe even under 5 million. The hardest part by far is the payment platform and security end of it, even with the full cooperation of US banks.

[Shotglass]

^^With FTP's current license in Alderney in suspension do you really think that ANY other jurisdiction will even consider granting FTP even a temporary licence until after the decisions in Alderney have been finalized? If so, then I'd like some of what you're smoking..

My biggest concern currently (aside from getting player's funds returned ldfo) is 'how will this affect support for HR2366?'

[Keith]

http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...n%20290611.pdf

no play deposits/withdrawals until hearing scheduleed for late july

[andy-akb]

^^With FTP's current license in Alderney in suspension do you really think that ANY other jurisdiction will even consider granting FTP even a temporary licence until after the decisions in Alderney have been finalized? If so, then I'd like some of what you're smoking..

My biggest concern currently (aside from getting player's funds returned ldfo) is 'how will this affect support for HR2366?'

Lol, yes. Do you know how sketchy many of these island tax havens are? UB/Absolute havent lost their licenses for all the shit they pulled and are definitely in a worse financial position than FT currently is in. So yea, I am sure that there are some "regulatory" bodies out there that dont act with as high standards as others. If there arent, FT could send some cash to help create one. They may not be able to pay out all players, but they arent broke.

[Shotglass]

While that ^^ may be true, the point that i was trying to make is that Alderney is considered one of the weakest licensing organizations in the UK. If they found enough to suspend FTP's license then I doubt that any of the stronger licensing organizations will consider them for a while.

[Keith]

kahnawake poker rooms aren't allowed to advertise in the uk, so guess they are considered weaker regulaters .

[Micro2Macro]

not like this is really any surprise

[lolzzz_321]

not like this is really any surprise

I thought it was surprising one of these gaming commissions actually had the power to shut an online poker room down.

[Micro2Macro]

I thought it was surprising one of these gaming commissions actually had the power to shut an online poker room down.

well I mean, between stars and tilt I think ftp was clearly doomed and was only a matter of time for something like this to come up

[Nekrogovner]

funny how ftp website says its down for maintenance. Jokerstars here i comez.

[pocketfours]

Withdrew my BR from FTP after BF as fast as I could. Managed to withdraw everything in a few weeks. With $0 in my account, I converted some FTPs and ironman medals to $50 cash game tickets and ran my roll up to $2.4k. Made a withdrawal request to neteller for the full amount (still pending). Account was at $0 again. Converted more FTPs to cash game tickets and ran my roll up to $2.1k (still on my account).

Was fun but probably all for nothing, sigh.

[BankItDrew]

PokerStars license reaffirmed by Isle of Man Gaming Commission - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum

[kiwiMark]

You gotta BELIEVE.

[donkbee]

not like this is really any surprise

I feel kind of shocked that it finally happened, but I agree that it was inevitable. I am honestly surprised that so many people continued to play there even when they knew they weren't paying back Americans. And then people STILL played after Ivey sued his own site. Whatever the case, I hope that Americans and everyone else can still get their money back eventually.

[Warpe]

Full Tilt’s Alderney Gambling Licenses Suspended Due To “Several Issues” - Nathan Vardi - The Jungle - Forbes

[boost]

Benny, how much do you know about software development and the costs associated with it?

I'm not saying that its a snap easy investment... obv it's not. But I think the issue that is keeping an investment from happening is that Bitar, Lederer, etc, are being unreasonable in the terms they expect an investor to agree to. I think with the right terms the value is obviously there.

If I never see my br again, it's not the end of the world to me.. I'll keep on keepin on and shit will be fine for me. So I don't think I'm being overly optimistic because of that bias. But to be clear, I don't think it's anywhere near a lock that a deal will be made.. I just think there's a greater than insignificant chance that there will be a buyout that results in payouts.

[BennyLaRue]

Benny, how much do you know about software development and the costs associated with it?.

More than I know about how much FTP owes players in total so the math would be incomplete anyway. The point was simply that the software isn't a unique asset so no reason it should be worth more than the cost of development.

I'm not saying that its a snap easy investment... obv it's not. But I think the issue that is keeping an investment from happening is that Bitar, Lederer, etc, are being unreasonable in the terms they expect an investor to agree to. I think with the right terms the value is obviously there.

Oh, I agree with that. I just think that Bitar et al fleeing with whatever they made since BF is more likely than those right (read: cheap) terms being accepted. They can't do both.

To sum up, I'm just saying that it's probably healthier to count the money as lost and on the slim chance you get it, freeroll hookers and fine chocolates, than to place significant hopes on a Hero investor.

[Alexos]

Investing in FTP and keep playing on FTP are two different things. I'd be way more likely to invest in FTP at buy the company at a sick price on a gambool, than to keep playing and possibly only getting a fraction of my dollars earned. So ofc it's likely someone will step in and buy it at a discount, but that doesn't mean I should keep playing there and expect to get just a fraction of my earnings. It's just not worth it imo, and it means putting a lot of faith into head management of FTP which are clearly crooks. To keep on playing on FTP just to make it look like an attractive investment for anyone willing to save it is a bit naive imo.

[andy-akb]

To keep on playing on FTP just to make it look like an attractive investment for anyone willing to save it is a bit naive imo.

Meh, I mean I dont disagree and think I am being overly optimistic, but at the same time, if you cannot cashout and really cant play at other sites [certain draw games, rush poker, superturbos, etc], i dont see what other options you have


Also, Full Tilt Looks to the KGC | Subject: Poker

[Alexos]

Meh, I mean I dont disagree and think I am being overly optimistic, but at the same time, if you cannot cashout and really cant play at other sites [certain draw games, rush poker, superturbos, etc], i dont see what other options you have


Also, Full Tilt Looks to the KGC | Subject: Poker

yea i know you had a pretty good reason to keep playing on there

but say they got their license back tmr, i still believe your time is better spent doing something else. it's still poker and there's a bunch of other sites

[EasyPoker]

FTP, I already warned 2plus2 - Page 3 - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

[Alexos]

obv depends on the conditions, raise capital is pretty vague

[BennyLaRue]

obv depends on the conditions, raise capital is pretty vague

QuadJacks said in early May $200M for half the company. No idea if true, of course.

[BooG690]

QuadJacks said in early May $200M for half the company. No idea if true, of course.

That number plummeted quite quickly.

I still bet Cereus pays out before FTP. Takers?

[wufwugy]

That number plummeted quite quickly.

I still bet Cereus pays out before FTP. Takers?

Cereus is never paying out. Never. They lost like 97% of their business, they're in debt several times over, and nobody will buy them out. I'd be lucky to get my money off there within twenty years. The DoJ are the biggest thieves the world ever knew

FTP might pay. If they reopen and lose half of their post-BF business, they're still in a much better position than Cereus ever was

[BennyLaRue]

That number plummeted quite quickly.

I still bet Cereus pays out before FTP. Takers?

It seems pretty unlikely that Cereus can pay their portion of the $3B fine the DOJ is seeking, even if it's settled down to a smaller number. I doubt we'll ever see them, or that money, again.

[Alexos]

and no deal yet doesn't mean there isn't interest in it

[Alexos]

buying out distressed companies is a very interesting topic actually, and i'm sure none of us even come close to understand the factors involved.

someone like Taipan who deals with private equity might have some experience with that, maybe..

[Micro2Macro]

i doubt anyone spending their time in ftr commune has sufficient knowledge on mergers and aquariums

[Nekrogovner]

I suppose we should start ratholing poker sites: buy chips, grind, withdraw at end of the session. Rinse and repeat.

[BooG690]

News: Full Tilt Update: Considering Kahnawake & Statement Released

[celtic123]

Strange how rush poker still advertizez here.

[kiwiMark]

as someone pointed out somewhere else, tracerouteing to Full Tilt Poker - Learn from the Pros takes you past mohaw.ca addresses, so I'd say they're more than considering being licensed by kahnaspellingnightmanrewake and it's underway.

[Shotglass]

as someone pointed out somewhere else, tracerouteing to Full Tilt Poker - Learn from the Pros takes you past mohaw.ca addresses, so I'd say they're more than considering being licensed by kahnaspellingnightmanrewake and it's underway.

The problem is that either last year or in 2009 the KGC signed an agreement with AGCC to honor each other's rulings. If FTP gets a license from the KGC then is that license, or any of the other KGC licenses, really worth anything since they don't recognize their previous agreements?

Edit: The actual agreement (memorandum of understanding) was reached in 2010 and the details are not public. Here's a link about FTP's move on pokerfuse:
Full Tilt Poker's Site Moved to Kahnawake Mohawk Territory | Pokerfuse Online Poker News

[BankItDrew]

You're right. I did a second google search and it turns out that my initial research was false. Although, wtf is with POTRIPPER still running UB?

[BooG690]

KGC Statement about FTP | Subject: Poker

[oskar]

On a slight upside, lot of skins have upped their rakeback. Everyone's battling for FT's ex-playerpool.

[Stacks]

Full Tilt Poker, online: European investors to buy online poker firm Full Tilt Poker - latimes.com

[aka_red]

that's good news.

[boost]

weeeeeeeeee looks like we may have just hit runner runner perfect.

[BooG690]

Two Plus Two Poker Forums - View Single Post - New player in town

This Deu3es guy is making this whole thing fun to watch. Omnomnom popcorn.

[BooG690]

Class action suit against FTP: Scribd

2+2 link: **New Lawsuit**Steve Segal, Nick Hammer , Robin Hougdahl and Todd Terry v. Full Tilt Poker - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

[bikes]

pretty sick that they are rico'ing it, inb4 team full tilt flees the country

[BooG690]

I wonder if I can Cereusly do this? Think of the threads I can start!

[boost]

Yes, "a poker platform" can be whipped together... but a quality one? I mean, PokerStars is probably the second best software, and it is lightyears behind FTP.

Anyways, FTP's French license was just revoked... Any good news seems to be paired with equally bad or worse news..

[Fnord]

Yes, "a poker platform" can be whipped together... but a quality one? I mean, PokerStars is probably the second best software, and it is lightyears behind FTP.

It's not that hard. The hardest part would be finding the talent to pull it off and managing to not make a bunch of bad hires in the process.

[BooG690]

Well, here's some good news then. An update if you will:

http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...2020110703.pdf

[Roid_Rage]

I just wanna play poker again

[a500lbgorilla]

I just wanna play poker again

k, I'll deal.

Dealt to Roid_Rage [Ad, Ac]

Dealt to a500lbgorilla [-, -]

Action's on you.

[BooG690]

FTP Insider: Q&A thread - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum

[rong]

I think Roid's gonna lose.

[Roid_Rage]

All in ofc

[a500lbgorilla]

Snapfold. obv kings are no good here.

[Roid_Rage]

Sigh was expecting some sort of punchline.

[a500lbgorilla]

I expected you to open fold and re-deal just to one up me.

[BooG690]

Failed jokes containment thread?

[a500lbgorilla]

One thread could never contain your momma.

Get it? cuz your moms a failed joke?