FTR Forums have become an embarassment

[lambchopdc]

Well after reading the "Does Xianti hate IRC post" and seeing that IRC has been disowned, I think its time for a response.

Point #1 - The majority of the people complaining about IRC are never in IRC. Ultimate George I have never seen you in IRC and yet I have seen a few posts from you about it plus one thanking Xianti for disowning it.

Point #2 - You don't have to read every friggin community post. If the reasoning behind your hatred of an IRC channel is that you have to read little bickerings in the community, SKIP THE DAMN POST. Just don't friggin read it, its not that hard.

Point #3 - The reason there are problems is IRC is that the good players abandoned it. In the last couple weeks, players like myself and Doggz have actually been making an effort to clean things up. I started an #ftr-pokeronly channel for those who didn't want to deal with the random BS getting discussed. We've also started kick/banning people for inappropriate comments, etc. We're doing this while 4-6 tabling, thats more effort that i've seen from anyone else who's been sitting here bitching about it.

Point #4 - The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information. Typically one person responds with a cookie-cutter reply and 10 post-whores type something like "i agree with so-and-so." We need places like IRC and Vent to actually discuss poker theory, analyze hands, analyze situations etc. From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.

Point #5 - Before you delete this post and ban me, think about what I'm actually saying. I swear if this post gets insta-deleted and I get insta-banned than I have successfully proved my point that you all are little babies that can't handle real criticism and are too lazy to actually fix a problem with a good thing, you simply delete it and hope it goes away.

I leave it to you, either respond with an intelligent argument and prove to me that IQ exists on this forum. Or delete this and ban me and prove to me that you all are the little whining babies I think you are.

[journey075]

agreed.

[midas06]

me also. re-own IRC

[ProZachNation]

4thed

[a500lbgorilla]

Are these replies meant to be ironic?

-'rilla

EDIT - For the sake of keeping my FTR account, I'm not talking about IRC.

[DoGGz]

POTY

[midas06]

Edited because me and lamb are tight.

Edit2: and dwarfman too

[gabe]

point 1
wrong. we all hung out in IRC when it was cool. you don't see us there anymore hardly because we don't like what it became.

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

point 3
ok

point 4
are you kidding?

point 5
who is this directed at?

[sandstorm]

Just get rid of the personal stuff (he banned me, he called me that) and we will be just fine with the way it was. The forum is good for long analyzing things, and IRC is.. well.. a chatroom. I personally feel much more like a part of the community by visiting IRC, and I have made some friends there.

I don't see why this has become so huge all of a sudden? Just get rid of the (few) whining, personal threads.

Just my $0.01. Ban me if you must.

EDIT: I wasn't around when it was "cool", I might add. But I have been a regular in a lot of IRC channels and this one is clearly the best yet. Maybe I just happen to like "what it has become".

[gabe]

i just thought of something! apply #2 to yourself!

"You don't have to read every friggin _______ post. If the reasoning behind your hatred of an _____ is that you have to read little bickerings in the community, SKIP THE DAMN POST. Just don't friggin read it, its not that hard. "
just insert whatever

[lambchopdc]

point 1
wrong. we all hung out in IRC when it was cool. you don't see us there anymore hardly because we don't like what it became.

It became that way because noone took the time nor energy to fix it. Everyone just bailed.

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

point 4
are you kidding?

No. I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.

point 5
who is this directed at?

Anyone with the power to delete this.

[boost]

what the hell is the big problem? You guys like chilling in irc, no ones asking you to cease and desist using the name. Xianti just doesnt want to have anything to do with it.

And Lamb, I think its cool that you are trying to turn shit around, but if the only people oped are constantly quading or 8 tabling or whatever, then how good of a job do you think youre doing?

No ones telling you to no longer log into the channel, so I dont get what the big fuss is about. The irc channel is not bringing xianti or the other owners any referalls, this site is, and when this site turns into an irc bitching fest, then people dont come here. Then they stop seeing referalls. So if he feels IRC is nothing but trouble, who are you to go and call him a baby? Think about what youre saying man.

[gabe]

No. I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.

lets say i had a basketball team, and we were good. then my 5 great players left. then theres you telling me that my team isn't good and you can find a certain 5 people that agree with you. and the worst part of this is that the rest of the team is sitting around like "yea, well talk shit about is, we dont care. if they want to leave, we are still going to try to win some games."

[lambchopdc]

what the hell is the big problem? You guys like chilling in irc, no ones asking you to cease and desist using the name. Xianti just doesnt want to have anything to do with it.

And Lamb, I think its cool that you are trying to turn shit around, but if the only people oped are constantly quading or 8 tabling or whatever, then how good of a job do you think youre doing?

No ones telling you to no longer log into the channel, so I dont get what the big fuss is about. The irc channel is not bringing xianti or the other owners any referalls, this site is, and when this site turns into an irc bitching fest, then people dont come here. Then they stop seeing referalls. So if he feels IRC is nothing but trouble, who are you to go and call him a baby? Think about what youre saying man.

Last i checked the community forum didn't make him referrals either. My point is that IRC has helped people make money, and u won't convince me otherwise cuz it did for me. Taking away IRC from FTR is removing what could be a valuable resource. But apparantly helping people isn't what matters, its all about referrals.

[sandstorm]

what the hell is the big problem?

This has become a big us-against-them thing. Not good.

[boost]

and theres a difference between posting pictures of your girl, who has decent implants and a cute face for everyone to enjoy. Versus blatantly hating on someones girlfreind in a public forums, that is just wrong. Lamb, you seem to be pulling everyones cards today how about I pull yours? how about I get a copy of that picture of your girlfreind that someone has and post that. Then we can have everyone critique her. (sorry sarah just proving a point) Then youll see how it feels.

no hard feelings man.. just proving a point, that post was out of line.

[DoGGz]

No. I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.

lets say i had a basketball team, and we were good. then my 5 great players left. then theres you telling me that my team isn't good and you can find a certain 5 people that agree with you. and the worst part of this is that the rest of the team is sitting around like "yea, well talk shit about is, we dont care. if they want to leave, we are still going to try to win some games."

and then the coach comes in and says he will have nothing to do with the remaining players who are here trying to salvage the team.

[Fleece]

could somone explain to me when what and why irc become "broken" i dont understand wat your all going on about

[gabe]

wait what?

who's the coach supposed to be?

[lambchopdc]

No. I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.

lets say i had a basketball team, and we were good. then my 5 great players left. then theres you telling me that my team isn't good and you can find a certain 5 people that agree with you. and the worst part of this is that the rest of the team is sitting around like "yea, well talk shit about is, we dont care. if they want to leave, we are still going to try to win some games."

Ok so if the team (the forums) is still as good. Where are all the new high rollers? Where's the huge profits? Where is the new michael1123 or new ilikeaces86 on the forums? Please point me to them, please. I'm not against the forums, all i'm saying is that something is obviously missing. Cuz i see people who have been playing $10 + $20 SNGs for a year. The team is <.500. Playoffs aren't looking good.

[boost]

and no, dont quote me then shove those words in xiantis mouth. Im not speaking for him Im just pointing out something that seems like it should be obvious. These guys have done a lot for us, and they arent being greedy about anything, so dont even fucking go there. Cuz once again you are getting out of line.

[ProZachNation]

Using Gabes qoute the team(IRC) had a lot of its good players leave and we are trying to get by then the coach(X man) comes in and is like you guys suck seeya.

[DoGGz]

[DoGGz]

No. I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.

lets say i had a basketball team, and we were good. then my 5 great players left. then theres you telling me that my team isn't good and you can find a certain 5 people that agree with you. and the worst part of this is that the rest of the team is sitting around like "yea, well talk shit about is, we dont care. if they want to leave, we are still going to try to win some games."

Ok so if the team (the forums) is still as good. Where are all the new high rollers? Where's the huge profits? Where is the new michael1123 or new ilikeaces86 on the forums? Please point me to them, please.

I'm right here. Hi

[lambchopdc]

and theres a difference between posting pictures of your girl, who has decent implants and a cute face for everyone to enjoy. Versus blatantly hating on someones girlfreind in a public forums, that is just wrong. Lamb, you seem to be pulling everyones cards today how about I pull yours? how about I get a copy of that picture of your girlfreind that someone has and post that. Then we can have everyone critique her. (sorry sarah just proving a point) Then youll see how it feels.

no hard feelings man.. just proving a point, that post was out of line.

If I posted a pic of her on the forums simply so everyone could stare at her and u wanted to critique it, i couldn't say a damn thing. But i didn't.

[Alibi]

If you don't think that the forums are helping you become a better player, then don't stick around. I know they have helped many other people, though. Why don't you read the MTT Winner's Circle and see how many new people said "I have only been lurking but this site has helped me tons, here is my first win!"

[gabe]

i didnt say our team was awesome. i just dont care what the players who left the team think.

[gabe]

If you don't think that the forums are helping you become a better player, then don't stick around. I know they have helped many other people, though. Why don't you read the MTT Winner's Circle and see how many new people said "I have only been lurking but this site has helped me tons, here is my first win!"

BINGO BANGO BONGO

if you think you have outgrown the boards then thats one thing, but hating just pisses people off


and this double post concludes my participation in this thread

[DoGGz]

i didnt say our team was awesome. i just dont care what the players who left the team think.

Clearly you do, or you wouldn't be posting in this thread. Good day sir!

[boost]

and theres a difference between posting pictures of your girl, who has decent implants and a cute face for everyone to enjoy. Versus blatantly hating on someones girlfreind in a public forums, that is just wrong. Lamb, you seem to be pulling everyones cards today how about I pull yours? how about I get a copy of that picture of your girlfreind that someone has and post that. Then we can have everyone critique her. (sorry sarah just proving a point) Then youll see how it feels.

no hard feelings man.. just proving a point, that post was out of line.

If I posted a pic of her on the forums simply so everyone could stare at her and u wanted to critique it, i couldn't say a damn thing. But i didn't.

well maybe he didnt think it all the way throuhg, but have some fukcing respect, jesus. I wish you would sya some shit like that about my girl to me in person, Id break your fucking face. Its one thing if its a 'yo momma' joke thats completely a general joke. But you guys where just saying bogus shit, that shit aint funny.

[lambchopdc]

If you don't think that the forums are helping you become a better player, then don't stick around. I know they have helped many other people, though. Why don't you read the MTT Winner's Circle and see how many new people said "I have only been lurking but this site has helped me tons, here is my first win!"

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked. My point is that IRC is an outlet where many players can get help that continues their poker career if run properly. The whole point is that disowning IRC is a mistake because there are many people that have gained from using it. And just because of a few whining posts in the community, that resource does not need to be taken away.

[DoGGz]

can we stay on topic? ty

[midas06]

If you don't think that the forums are helping you become a better player, then don't stick around. I know they have helped many other people, though. Why don't you read the MTT Winner's Circle and see how many new people said "I have only been lurking but this site has helped me tons, here is my first win!"

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked. My point is that IRC is an outlet where many players can get help that continues their poker career if run properly. The whole point is that disowning IRC is a mistake because there are many people that have gained from using it. And just because of a few whining posts in the community, that resource does not need to be taken away.

This I think is the main point in this thread. Yes IRC has become a gay jokes and bad beats haven rather than a pure poker channel. However, this can be remedied, and made into something good again.

However, rather than attempting to fix the problem, FTR is ignoring it, and ditching it.

[Alibi]

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked.

Well, since YOU still sucked after your first MTT, then everybody must have.

In addition, you may not think it that big of a deal to win an MTT but it definitely is to people who haven't taken any down yet.

Think of the newer guys.

[lambchopdc]

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked.

Well, since YOU still sucked after your first MTT, then everybody must have.

In addition, you may not think it that big of a deal to win an MTT but it definitely is to people who haven't taken any down yet.

Think of the newer guys.

You so completely missed my point.

"In addition, you may not think it that big of a deal to win an MTT but it definitely is to people who haven't taken any down yet." - When did i say this?

[boost]

I dont so much disagree with the idea of not abondoning IRC, however is the way you guys are presenting hte arguement. Its like radicals taking over a school and holding little kids and teachers as hostages. They demand the release of their friends from jail or whatever, yet .. what did they really hope to achieve? Its a horribly inneffective way to go about things, and thats what you guys are doing.

[EricE]

Lambchopdc
I really don’t see what the point of this thread is other than to stir up trouble. The people that like the IRC channel will continue to go there and it will continue to be a help to YOUR game. You come here claiming that it is to the detriment of the forums to disown it (IRC) yet you yourself claim to not use the forums anymore…hence you can’t really claim concern for the forums. So what is your purpose here? Altruism? Naw, its just to stir up stuff.

[Alibi]

"In addition, you may not think it that big of a deal to win an MTT but it definitely is to people who haven't taken any down yet." - When did i say this?

You implied it when you said

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked.

[lambchopdc]

Lambchopdc
I really don’t see what the point of this thread is other than to stir up trouble. The people that like the IRC channel will continue to go there and it will continue to be a help to YOUR game. You come here claiming that it is to the detriment of the forums to disown it (IRC) yet you yourself claim to not use the forums anymore…hence you can’t really claim concern for the forums. So what is your purpose here? Altruism? Naw, its just to stir up stuff.

I'm not trying to start up trouble. The only thing i'm trying to stir is change. I still do use the forums but I find I get better input about the posts from IRC or vent than I do from soley forum users. My purpose is that FTR as a whole (Forums, IRC, Vent) is what made me a good player. And taking away part of that trio is taking away what I believe is a great part of this site. If i wanted to stir up trouble my post would have said "you all are assholes. discuss."

[lambchopdc]

"In addition, you may not think it that big of a deal to win an MTT but it definitely is to people who haven't taken any down yet." - When did i say this?

You implied it when you said

1st wins aren't that hard. When I won my first MTT, i still sucked.

Please don't read deeper into my comments than what I say. Thats half the problem here.

[Xianti]

lambchop, you're not getting banned for what you're saying in this thread. I've ALWAYS welcomed constructive criticism.

No one is shutting down the FTR IRC channels. You can continue to do what you do and invite other people to join you or whatever. We just won't advertise it here as an "official" chatroom.

I simply feel that it is unmanageable. I did not select the current Ops like I select the forum Moderators. I don't even know who made those decisions. Somewhere along the line, a lot of people were put in place with no real management skills, guidelines or policies. Some feel that IRC should be completely freeform, with little-to-no rules. Others feel it should be ruled with an iron fist. So who is right?

Part of our inability to manage it and prevent the flame wars and all the drama we've seen in the last few months is because none of us Admins have the desire or time to sit in the IRC channel and keep abreast of all that is going on there. I personally don't think it's a manageable format.

If we keep it as an "official" chatroom, issues and conflicts that occur there will naturally flow into our forums. If we separate ourselves from it, we can rightfully prevent those same issues from being posted about here in our forums.

As for you saying "if you don't like the thread, just ignore it," that goes against everything the Admins and FTR stand for. We are not like those other troll forums. We will not tolerate anyone flaming another member. The friendly atmosphere that we try to maintain here is sacred and I will NOT let anyone spoil that.

[boost]

couldnt help myself....

[DoGGz]

couldnt help myself....

red x is hott

[journey075]

However, rather than attempting to fix the problem, FTR is ignoring it, and ditching it.

its HARDLY beyond repair. hell i like irc more than i like the forums.

and gabe, i always thought you were one of the best mtt players here. i dont think you need to pick one side (forum v irc) here. i always liked when you came into chat. come back .

[lambchopdc]

lambchop, you're not getting banned for what you're saying in this thread. I've ALWAYS welcomed constructive criticism.

No one is shutting down the FTR IRC channels. You can continue to do what you do and invite other people to join you or whatever. We just won't advertise it here as an "official" chatroom.

I simply feel that it is unmanageable. I did not select the current Ops like I select the forum Moderators. I don't even know who made those decisions. Somewhere along the line, a lot of people were put in place with no real management skills, guidelines or policies. Some feel that IRC should be completely freeform, with little-to-no rules. Others feel it should be ruled with an iron fist. So who is right?

Part of our inability to manage it and prevent the flame wars and all the drama we've seen in the last few months is because none of us Admins have the desire or time to sit in the IRC channel and keep abreast of all that is going on there. I personally don't think it's a manageable format.

If we keep it as an "official" chatroom, issues and conflicts that occur there will naturally flow into our forums. If we separate ourselves from it, we can rightfully prevent those same issues from being posted about here in our forums.

As for you saying "if you don't like the thread, just ignore it," that goes against everything the Admins and FTR stand for. We are not like those other troll forums. We will not tolerate anyone flaming another member. The friendly atmosphere that we try to maintain here is sacred and I will NOT let anyone spoil that.

I fully agree with the IRC flame threads here. That I get. All i'm saying is that had I never found the thread leading me to IRC, I would have made 10k less than I've made right now. I think a link leading to the IRC channel saying that is there for discussion outside the forums is fine. Just state that the IRC chat is "user-owned" and does reflect the mods, admins of this forum, etc. Banning the IRC related posts just the way you are now if perfectly appropriate. I just think that the opportunity for users to discover IRC should be available to them.

[ttanaka]

Well, from my standpoint, we (the admins) never moderated IRC, never really got involved with IRC, we didn't set it up, we don't own it or disown it, we really have nothing to do with it, it just got filled with people that came from FTR, so we linked to it. That was basically the extent of our involvement - a link. Xianti did try to organize mod's or procedures to help a lending hand, but I don't think that went anywhere. The one thing we did see was all the drama and bitching bleed over from IRC into our forums. I still hope the IRC survives and helps people.

Anyway, back to lambchop's post - jeez, I don't hate IRC, I just don't like any bad blood spewing in the forums regardless of where it came from. You're right, I don't have to read them or whatever, but it's not that, we want a friendly community for everyone here... and for the new people discovering us every day. You know, advice, goodwill, fun and laughs type of thing. That's what has attracted a lot of people, and kept people coming back.

I think it's great that you and Doggz and others are working to clean up IRC.

With regards to IQ in the forums? I think there is, that's my opinion, I think the forums have helped a lot of people. We hear about it. But, it's not for everyone.

Dude, we're not going to delete your post and ban you - where'd that come from?

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

I don't know anything about what Tim was doing in IRC. All I know is that thread about his girlfriend seemed way out of line. I mean if someone has issue with someone else, well that happens, but it doesn't need to publicly be displayed in our forums - again, it's about the environment we are trying to maintain here at FTR - it's not about not liking IRC.

I don't know if I came off as a "whiny baby" or not, hopefully not cuz that would suck.

[Muxy]

The thing i don’t get is where you have a premier online poker league that doesn’t have a learderboard. But we have the most Christmas"y" poker forum. Let's see where our priorities are...

[lambchopdc]

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

don't know anything about what Tim was doing in IRC.

Tim wasn't in IRC. If you notice, the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that Hot Thread" was a parody of Tim's own "The Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." Apparantly some people didn't get that and took it way out of hand. My reference in this post was to point out to Gabe that there are plenty of "stupid and unnecessary" posts in the Community. But only those that people don't agree with get the backlash.

BTW, you're not being whiny, I appreciate the responses.

[boost]

EVERYONE CLICK!

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24687

[ttanaka]

LOL - nh sir.

I don't know if I came off as a "whiny baby" or not, hopefully not cuz that would suck.

That reminds me,



Sorry Tyson, just couldn't resist. :P

---

As for IRC, I just feel it is just one big melodrama spewing in the FTR Community. For the love of God, someone make a solution and save Xianti (and others) a headache.

[Xianti]

The thing i don’t get is where you have a premier online poker league that doesn’t have a learderboard.

Sorry about that, Muxy. We got a late start on re-coding the Leaderboard for PokerStars this season. That's entirely my fault. Again, I apologize.

Since Season III started, I've been working with LeFou to get it set up for PokerStars. Actually, he's doing all the coding. Kudos to LeFou. We hope to get it up and running by this weekend.

But we have the most Christmas"y" poker forum. Let's see where our priorities are...

I'm a skilled designer. Not a skilled programmer. And I did it during some downtime at work as I was trying out some new effects in an animation program that I use for the day job. Isn't it pretty?

[ttanaka]

he he he - I'm funny looking. PWND by Dwarfy. Well played Sir.

[boost]

xianti, youre a skilled designer? didnt you design the original site? heh sorry... I just remember laughing at that. Someone linked to one of those "timemachine googles" or whatever where it shwos the page a couple years ago. But yah those animations are hot

[Xianti]

xianti... didnt you design the original site?

ohgodno!

I only designed this version of the logo for Tyson. He was the original site designer. (Did you see the original logo?)

Now, THAT version of FTR really was an embarrassment.


:biggrin:

[TylerK]

point 1
wrong. we all hung out in IRC when it was cool. you don't see us there anymore hardly because we don't like what it became.

/signed

[a500lbgorilla]

LOOK AT WHAT IRC HAS DONE!

-'rilla

[Xianti]

Trik / lambchop flame war has been split and locked.

[UG]

point 1
wrong. we all hung out in IRC when it was cool. you don't see us there anymore hardly because we don't like what it became.

I can't say it any better than that Gabe just did.


Look, I don't want to start a flame war here. The reason I have so much to say about the IRC, even though I don't even go there anymore, is simply because I care about FTR. This place is GREAT. It has allowed a lot of people to make a LOT of money (including me). I want it to stay that way.

Back in the day the IRC was great too. It was a wonderful place to hang out, talk about poker, shoot the breeze with fellow FTR'ers, etc. I learned a lot in there in my early days. Then things changed. It got stupid. There was bickering, flame wars, lots of kick/banning going on. Even when those things weren't happening, there wasn't anything else GOOD going on that helped my game in any way, shape, or form. So I left. I left to get away from it all.

I left to get away, yet I still have to read new threads, almost daily, about how "this and that is happening in the IRC and I am not happy about it." I was sick of IRC, so I left. Now I'm sick about reading the ongoing dramas of IRC *here*, and I let everyone know that.

Back to my original point. I care about FTR. This place can be (and is) a great asset to everyone here. Slowly but surely I'm starting to see a trend, though, where some of the annoying things that were happening in IRC are starting to occur here. I don't want that to happen. I want FTR to remain a great place for people to come and learn about the game. I don't want somebody to show up on their first day and see a post like this, think that this place is stupid, and then they never get hooked on the game (or hooked on making money).

Do you see my point?

EDIT: While writing this the thread was locked. Hopefully this will be the last time I ever have to discuss this topic.

I only designed this version of the logo for Tyson. He was the original site designer. (Did you see the original logo?)

FlapTornRover.Cam!

[Xianti]

EDIT: While writing this the thread was locked.

Not locked. I locked the flaming tangent that I split from this thread.

[Trikflow77]

ok flaming aside...my take on the whole post

Point #1 - The majority of the people complaining about IRC are never in IRC. Ultimate George I have never seen you in IRC and yet I have seen a few posts from you about it plus one thanking Xianti for disowning it.

Like i have said before, the few times i have stopped by IRC, it was a bunch of people complaining about badbeats/cold cards.....or just insulting each other....there was no real content.

Point #2 - You don't have to read every friggin community post. If the reasoning behind your hatred of an IRC channel is that you have to read little bickerings in the community, SKIP THE DAMN POST. Just don't friggin read it, its not that hard.

Most people that dont like IRC dont like it for the reasons i stated above, but i agree, this is not a reason to hate IRC.

Point #3 - The reason there are problems is IRC is that the good players abandoned it. In the last couple weeks, players like myself and Doggz have actually been making an effort to clean things up. I started an #ftr-pokeronly channel for those who didn't want to deal with the random BS getting discussed. We've also started kick/banning people for inappropriate comments, etc. We're doing this while 4-6 tabling, thats more effort that i've seen from anyone else who's been sitting here bitching about it.

Why do you think the good players left? And honestly, i cant play 4-6-8-10 tables and talk effectively on IRC anyway.

Point #4 - The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information. Typically one person responds with a cookie-cutter reply and 10 post-whores type something like "i agree with so-and-so." We need places like IRC and Vent to actually discuss poker theory, analyze hands, analyze situations etc. From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.

I partially agree....there is a lot to sift through to get to some decent content, but it is like that with any poker forum. Out of all the sub forums, the sng forum is the most like what you are saying. They are so much more robotic, and i am to the point now that any % points in ROI are going to come from reads. If you notice on 2+2 the sng forum is more a group of friends....lots of off topic posts and the like. Its because there is really only so much content, the good players are already at about the highest level they can achieve, the content only helps newer players. But with limit/no limit ring and mtts...there is many more situations that can be dicussed. So i do not agree in in other areas of poker. It wasnt IRC that made you a winning player.....it was the player in IRC that you were talking to, you could do the same thing in a forum.

Point #5 - Before you delete this post and ban me, think about what I'm actually saying. I swear if this post gets insta-deleted and I get insta-banned than I have successfully proved my point that you all are little babies that can't handle real criticism and are too lazy to actually fix a problem with a good thing, you simply delete it and hope it goes away.

MEH....bringing all this up is fine, but until all the immmature kids sit in IRC and slap people with trouts and complain about bad beats, i doubt any decent player is going to hang around very long.

[Xianti]

ROFLCOPTER!
LOLLERCAUST!

[Demiparadigm]

The truth is, I think the biggest problem with IRC has always been the ops.
People being kicked as a joke... People being banned for personal issues.
Practically every bitchy IRC post up until this week was centered around Dwarfman. This week's bitching is about different ops. (DoGGz and 'rilla)
We have never had a "BoostNSlide called me a fag on IRC" post. It is always about the ops.
I am on IRC almost every day. I am not usually on during peak hours, because yes, people act like idiots.
IRC is still a cool place to hang out after midnight though, with DoGGz and ake and midas. We even talk about poker.
In fact, I have never seen a poker question not answered on #flopturnriver. Even while all the idiots are arguing. someone will give you a polite, honest answer.

Try that on the big IRC poker channels on efnet. #2p2 and #poker
FTR IRC is a close, active community and the best poker related IRC chat available.
If we could get some ops who don't act like 15 year olds (Sorry Dwarfy) and misuse their power, then IRC would be a great place.
First and foremost IRC is a chat room, where people go to talk with others with similar interests. Keeping the discussion on track is great, but when ops take their little personal vendettas and turn them into people being banned, we have stupid problems flowing over into the forum.

I had a great conversation before work today with edudlive and LesWorm about bonuses available and what to consider while bonus hunting.
I have never had a great conversation on one of the other channels.

I am completely against removing FTR's support of the IRC channel. It is an amazing tool and can offer a lot to a new player who has questions. So sometimes someone calls ake gay or tells a bad beat. There is still a great medium for content available.

I hate the silly arguments spilling over to the forums as much as everyone else, but removing support of a great tool is not the best way to correct the problem. In fact, I think simply telling people to quit posting their stupid arguments on the forum and locking the threads should do the trick.

Finally, all of you who say how great IRC "was" fine. I have only been going to IRC since June and I don't spend much time there. Maybe it was the amazing mecca of Poker chat. It hasn't changed much since June, with the exception that a lot of the immaturity mysteriously dissapears while Dwarfman is gone (whether this is coincidental or not).
The point is, leaving because it is going down hill is not the best way to deal with the problem, even if it may be the easiest.
You don't abandon a ship because of a leak. you pump out the water and repair the hole.
Perhaps those of you who know what IRC "should be" are the ones best fit to save it. Perhaps if you would start some poker discussion, ask some poker questions, and politely tell people what is unnacceptable in our room, we could get our ship sailing back toward mecca.

[Muxy]

{Locked - Muxy , check out my E-Penis Now}

[a500lbgorilla]

{Unlocked}

I decide what lives and what dies in this forum, Muxy!

-'rilla

[Fleece]

The truth is, I think the biggest problem with IRC has always been the ops.
People being kicked as a joke... People being banned for personal issues.
Practically every bitchy IRC post up until this week was centered around Dwarfman. This week's bitching is about different ops. (DoGGz and 'rilla)
We have never had a "BoostNSlide called me a fag on IRC" post. It is always about the ops.
I am on IRC almost every day. I am not usually on during peak hours, because yes, people act like idiots.
IRC is still a cool place to hang out after midnight though, with DoGGz and ake and midas. We even talk about poker.
In fact, I have never seen a poker question not answered on #flopturnriver. Even while all the idiots are arguing. someone will give you a polite, honest answer.

Try that on the big IRC poker channels on efnet. #2p2 and #poker
FTR IRC is a close, active community and the best poker related IRC chat available.
If we could get some ops who don't act like 15 year olds (Sorry Dwarfy) and misuse their power, then IRC would be a great place.
First and foremost IRC is a chat room, where people go to talk with others with similar interests. Keeping the discussion on track is great, but when ops take their little personal vendettas and turn them into people being banned, we have stupid problems flowing over into the forum.

I had a great conversation before work today with edudlive and LesWorm about bonuses available and what to consider while bonus hunting.
I have never had a great conversation on one of the other channels.

I am completely against removing FTR's support of the IRC channel. It is an amazing tool and can offer a lot to a new player who has questions. So sometimes someone calls ake gay or tells a bad beat. There is still a great medium for content available.

I hate the silly arguments spilling over to the forums as much as everyone else, but removing support of a great tool is not the best way to correct the problem. In fact, I think simply telling people to quit posting their stupid arguments on the forum and locking the threads should do the trick.

Finally, all of you who say how great IRC "was" fine. I have only been going to IRC since June and I don't spend much time there. Maybe it was the amazing mecca of Poker chat. It hasn't changed much since June, with the exception that a lot of the immaturity mysteriously dissapears while Dwarfman is gone (whether this is coincidental or not).
The point is, leaving because it is going down hill is not the best way to deal with the problem, even if it may be the easiest.
You don't abandon a ship because of a leak. you pump out the water and repair the hole.
Perhaps those of you who know what IRC "should be" are the ones best fit to save it. Perhaps if you would start some poker discussion, ask some poker questions, and politely tell people what is unnacceptable in our room, we could get our ship sailing back toward mecca.

doggz, ake, midas..... what about Fleece i gave u advice when ur wallet got stolen for nothing!! thanks alot

jk other then not mentioning me demi is spot on

[midas06]

Nice post demi

[Xianti]

Thank you, Demi.

Gives me something to think about.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Point #4 - The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information. Typically one person responds with a cookie-cutter reply and 10 post-whores type something like "i agree with so-and-so." We need places like IRC and Vent to actually discuss poker theory, analyze hands, analyze situations etc. From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.

Point #5 - Before you delete this post and ban me, think about what I'm actually saying. I swear if this post gets insta-deleted and I get insta-banned than I have successfully proved my point that you all are little babies that can't handle real criticism and are too lazy to actually fix a problem with a good thing, you simply delete it and hope it goes away.

I leave it to you, either respond with an intelligent argument and prove to me that IQ exists on this forum. Or delete this and ban me and prove to me that you all are the little whining babies I think you are.

"A hand history without any cards"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...715&highlight=

"Raising limpers preflop"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...697&highlight=

"made flush on turn..ai?"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...693&highlight=

"best way to play middle pairs in a low level nl game?"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...589&highlight=

"Axs late position to a raise and lots of callers? 5NL"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...589&highlight=

"Hand vs Ultimate George"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...554&highlight=

"Changing your style to fit the table"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...554&highlight=

"Bottom two, what to do (That rhymes)"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...647&highlight=

"Weak bet on flop?"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...517&highlight=

"Big draw against 3 agressors"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...487&highlight=

"Your line; do you ever fold here"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...515&highlight=




All of these posts have responses within the last 24 hours. What forums are you reading?

Ahh.. this might be the reason. The most recent posts by lambchopdc:


"FTR Forums have become an embarassment"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...692&highlight=

"{Stupid Flaming}"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...701&highlight=

"Winner's Circle"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...804&highlight=

"FTR Gaunlet III: LEAGUE REGISTRATION"

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...258&highlight=



In all fairness to lambchop, I didn't read any of the above threads, I just copied the links. If someone tells me that lampchop's contributions to them were deeply insightful and filled with groundbreaking new poker theory, then I'll take their word for it. Somehow I doubt it though.

The only thing I find embarrasing about the forums is the continual threads where the author does nothing but bitch and moan. There is some validity to your rant, but how about something a little more constructive? It's hard to take you seriously when you post about how embarrassing the forums are you proceed to call people lazy, whining babies with no IQ. Instead how about you make some concrete suggestions on how this bunch ignorant toddlers should proceed on our path to poker nirvana.

I agree with you that one of the best thing for a poker player trying to improve their game to do is surround themselves with winning players. I know it's easy to hang around people like soupie, golfer, micheal1123, etc, start making some money, and then look at everyone else and say "Hey...what are the rest of you doing? You should be just like us and not only will you be better poker players, you'll be a better person... blah blah blah."

The thing is not everyone wants to be soupie. Not everyone everyone wants to be ilikeaces. People play poker for different reason. With a community as large and diverse as FTR there is going to be a wide spectrum of reasons. Some people want to make $100K+ a year. Some people want to plug a few leaks so they can do better in their weekly home game. Some people play for a living or to supplement their income. Others play mainly as recreation. To dismiss the people that are struggling or to try and hold them to the same standards as you might DigitalDoc isn't fair.

My point is that you have to respect the different motivations of people. I hated IRC because I wanted everyone in IRC to behave the way I wanted them to. I wanted people to stop swearing, telling gay jokes and discuss more poker theory. Well not everyone goes into IRC to discuss poker theory. Many people go in there simply to hang out. If they feel like bullshiting with their friends then they do it. What is wrong with that? Instead of trying to fight it I accept it now. If I feel like telling jokes with some friends then I'll go into IRC for awhile. If I want to be more serious then I don't. I know that if I want to hear more serious discussions there are other places and I seek them out. I suggest others do the same.

I don't blame FTR at all for disassociating themself with IRC. The decision makes sense for where they are trying to go (I assume anyways) and the image they want to portray. When Kobe Bryant was involved with his rape allegations, what did many of his sponsors do? They left him. It was a business decision that they didn't want to be associated with him. IRC is still there and no one is saying you can't use it. FTR is just saying that they don't want to be involved with it anymore.

There are many resources beyond the forums... Beyond IRC... Beyond Ventrillo... If you are motivated enough to seek them out you can find them. Not every single resource is going to be exactly what you may want. Instead of bitching about it either find somewhere else or find a way to make constructive changes.

[Pingviini]

Here is my €0.02.

I used to hang out on IRC for quite a while before it turner a nightmare in my eyes. All these guys just bitching about cold cards and bad beats and stuff, lately I have only stopped there a couple of times and found it a place where I dont want to be. I used to have a great time talking about poker and teasing scgolfer for being old and dman for being a kid those were the days. My suggestion is that Xman, or people currently on IRC choose 3-5 ops and they will together set the guidelines for proper behaviour on IRC, what to ban/kick people for etc.

As for poker content here.. We have our fair share of good good tournament players who still contribute to the forums and a couple of pretty good ring players who definitely should contribute more of their knowledgement to the forums, nevertheless I have learned so much about poker here. It is true that we have many "post whores" who really dont contribute anything to the forums. I feel that some guidelines ought to be discussed more, but not defined, to get more value from our posters. It is good that we have posters like Fnord, Rondavu, Gabe and VQC who at least try to keep some sort of quality on here. Still at one point the forums will not improve you as much as they used to because after you reach certain point as a poker player some things (at least in ring play) become too hard to explain in the forums. The best asset we have is the people and I have found myself trying to develop as a poker player with the people here sharing thoughts, hand histories, talking about the game and watching each other play. Sometimes in the forums, sometimes in Vent/Skype or messengers.

It is a shame that we have recently had so many personal issues amoungst our members but I still like this place and the people in general. I feel good that demi and lamb have at least try to clean up the air with their recent posts because having some kind of a debate about problem issues is better than not having discussion at all. I thank you for that even though occasionally it seems like you two are the whiny babies here no offence.

Pingviini

[lambchopdc]

Danuts, before you ever ever ever post "facts" about me...try checking them first. When you click my "most recent posts." It sorts them by the last "post" in every topic, not the last time I POSTED in them. If you are going to be a sarcastic dick, please check your info so u don't post lies please.

[Fleece]

ok enough of the posting that irc is nothing but bad beats and whining. im in there alot and i havent seen a bad beat rant for a while. please stop posting bullshit thankyou

[iwa]

Lambchop, you will never convice these people of the truth. Just move on and let everyone encapsulate themselves with the forums without any other means of learning. IRC and Ventrilo offer such a greater opportunity because they are real time. Lambchop is merly trying to keep these outlets open so other can benefit from them like he has.