The Greatest Riddle You'll Ever Find

[a500lbgorilla]

As you walk down a path, you approach three living statues - Truth, Falsehood, and Randomness, in no discernible order. The statue Falsehood always speaks falsely, Truth always speaks truly, and Randomness answers randomly to the best definition of the term. This means Randomness switches between speaking truly and falsely quite chaotically.

How could you determine which living statue is Truth, which is Falsehood, and which is Randomness on three questions, each directed at only one living statue at a time? You may ask one specific living statue more than one question which means you could ask no questions of another living statue.

Also, the living statues understand English but reply in an alien language of either Uu or Ww and you don't initially know which means yes and which means no.

Alternatively, if you can't do it in three questions, how many questions does it take you?

If you've heard of this riddle before, you're honor bound to say spoilers before you give the answer.

[philly and the phanatics]

i could figure it out without the language wrinkle

[supa]

The answer is 288.

[a500lbgorilla]

i could figure it out without the language wrinkle

So then how do you do it in 3 questions and how many more questions does it take you to figure out their language?

[boost]

so their answers are binary only?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with starting with one statue and asking it "is this the statue of [insert randomness/falsehood/truth here], recording the answer, then moving to the next statue and asking the same question.

But this is as far as I have gotten... Asking if the statue you are pointing to is truth, randomness, or falsehood could be important...

edit:

Ask all three questions of statue 1. "are you the liar?" "is he the liar[pointing to statue 2]" "is he the liar[pointing to statue 3]".

if 1 is the liar his answers will be "Ww, Uu, Uu" or "Uu, Ww, Ww."

if 1 is the honest one, his answers will be "Ww, Ww, Uu" or "Uu, Uu, Ww."

if 1 is random... well.. this is where I get lost...

[philly and the phanatics]

should probably put spoilers here cause im pretty sure im right on most of that part still don't know about the language part


in 3 questions you ask A- does B tell the truth more than C....

if he says yes, then you know C cannot be the random one...if A is truth, then that would mean B is random and C is false...if A is false then B is the random and C is the trurth...and if A is random then neither of the others are random lol.

conversely, if he says no then B cannot be the random one.

for your second question you ask the statue that you know is NOT random the same question. For the sake of this example lets say that C is not the random one (of course if the answer to the first question was no then you just switch C and B for the rest of this example)...so if you ask him if A tells the truth more than B, if he says Yes then (c=truth...a=random b=false) (c= false....a= random b= truth)... thus B cannot be random.

and if the answer is no then A cannot be random.....so now you have figured out who the random one is. Between the other 2 you just ask a question that you already know the answer to in order to find out who is lying...like who is the president of america or a simple math problem.

still no clue on the language thing though

[boost]

wait wait wait, how do we know B or C is not random based on the answer given by A, which we do not know is random, honest, or the liar?

edit: oooh I see..

[kiwiMark]

this is sposed to be the hardest riddle evar or some shit right? I remember sitting down with it for a while and not getting anywhere

[philly and the phanatics]

look at the following scenario=
we ask A whether or not B tells the truth more than C and the answer comes back "yes"

A could be truth, in which case he would be telling us that B is random and C is falsehood

A could be falsehood, in which case B is random and C is truth (because he would be lying to us by saying yes that B tells more truth than C)

and if A is random...well neither of the other 2 are random


in all 3 situations C is not random.

If A says No to the question instead of yes, then B becomes the one we know is not random.

[Penneywize]

[celtic123]

Is the girl in the black hat married ?

[a500lbgorilla]

ITT we discover that the FTR commune posses 2 sets of balls.

It doesn't matter that you can find the answer, it does matter that you're willing to try.

To those few actually working to solve this beast of a problem: you'd be well advised to employ "and" "or" and "if and only if" in your question statements.

[Penneywize]

Sorry rilla, I suppose I possess no balls; I looked up the solution after thinking about it for a few minutes. I probably would have needed to consult a logician to get this one solved tbh.

[a500lbgorilla]

Sorry rilla, I suppose I possess no balls; I looked up the solution after thinking about it for a few minutes. I probably would have needed to consult a logician to get this one solved tbh.

SPOILER



Don't read



I hate to ruin it but this is a problem way outside of my abilities but I still enjoyed the journey to getting no where near the answer.

And everyone seems to go about it differently.

As I see it, it's no where near about getting it right, but it is about going as deep as you can before giving up. If you see the problem and google for the answer, that's not cool. If you run headlong into solving it, that's deeply cool. That's my judgement.

There are answers though, I've read about people getting it in 2 questions.

[boost]

wait, I don't understand how you can use "or" if we are only getting binary answers...

[a500lbgorilla]

wait, I don't understand how you can use "or" if we are only getting binary answers...

Spoiler

Reading this one is not as lame as reading the other

Cryptic answers: Then don't use "or".

I may have tossed that in to hide the better clues. Still, If and only if and And are powerful tools for solving some of this problem

[boost]

shit, sorry, I referenced your spoiler without spoiler warnings

[boost]

does asking the same question to all three count as one question or three? Pretty sure it counts as three, but I figure I may as well ask so I know I'm not making things harder than they need to be.

[a500lbgorilla]

does asking the same question to all three count as one question or three? Pretty sure it counts as three, but I figure I may as well ask so I know I'm not making things harder than they need to be.

It's 3. This is all why I added the personal addition that if you go beyond 3 questions, how many more does it take you?

[OngBonga]

SPOILER just in case bits are right.


I've been going over 2 hours, and this is the best I've got...



Ask the first one what the square root of a pickled onion is. If you get an answer, you're talking to random.

Now ask the 2nd if 1st is truth. Then ask 2nd if he's truth. If you get the same answer, you're now talking to false, and he just said yes yes. If you got different answers, you're now talking to truth, and he answered no/yes.

Assuming you got no answer from your first question, you know you're talking to truth or false. Ask him if one of the other two is random. Truth will say yes, false will say no. Now ask him if he's truth. Truth will say yes, false will say yes too. So, if you got the same answer for both the questions, you found truth, and you know which one yes is. If you got different answers, then you found false, and he said no/yes.



I've had enough, I'm reading the spolier.

[OngBonga]

So no-one's posted a correct answer yet? Bastards.

[a500lbgorilla]

I've been going over 2 hours, and this is the best I've got...



Ask the first one what the square root of a pickled onion is. If you get an answer, you're talking to random.

Now ask the 2nd if 1st is truth. Then ask 2nd if he's truth. If you get the same answer, you're now talking to false, and he just said yes yes. If you got different answers, you're now talking to truth, and he answered no/yes.

Assuming you got no answer from your first question, you know you're talking to truth or false. Ask him if one of the other two is random. Truth will say yes, false will say no. Now ask him if he's truth. Truth will say yes, false will say yes too. So, if you got the same answer for both the questions, you found truth, and you know which one yes is. If you got different answers, then you found false, and he said no/yes.



I've had enough, I'm reading the spolier.

But Randomness is essentially .5 Truth and .5 Falsehood. So He'll give an answer that you should consider .5 each of them before he gives it. You can't ask a question of Randomness that neither of the other two statues could answer and get an answer.

[OngBonga]

You can't ask a question of Randomness that neither of the other two statues could answer and get an answer.

Yeah I know, it's a cop out. I think I'm like 3/4 of the way to an answer, but I can't figure out how to isolate the random guy on question one.

[supa]

Ok, so the key is to narrow down which one is the random and then figuring out which is truth and which is falsehood is easy. I tried for a while but then I got drunk so fuck it. Here's tom with the weather.

[OngBonga]

spoiler

I think I've got it.

First of all, ask the 1st guy this...

If I were to ask "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

If he says Uu, then 1st is either random being random, truth telling us 2nd is random, or false telling us 2nd isn't random (which of course means he is random). Thus, 3rd isn't random.

If he says Ww, then 1st is either random being random, truth telling us 2nd isn't random, or false telling us it is. Thus, 2nd isn't random.

So, after one question, we know one that isn't random. We ask him if he's truth. He will say yes. Ask him if he's random. If he's false, he will say yes. If he's truth, he will say no.

We now have all the info we need.

Jesus that hurt my head.

[supa]

wat

[supa]

How do you make invisible print?

[rong]

Ong, if you got that without cheating at all that's pretty impressive.

[OngBonga]

Ong, if you got that without cheating at all that's pretty impressive.

I didn't cheat, I just thought about it for a long time! I will confess that I showed this to my housemates, and so for half an hour or so there were three brains working at it. They get bored quicker than I do though, and they just confused me more than help!
Seriously, over 4 hours in total before I got there. The difficult part is asking a question which leaves us knowing which one isn't random. If we can do this in one question, the rest is simple. I wanted to give up and look at the answer after I posted my first reply, but no-one posted an answer so I just moved on to poker and continued to think about it between hands.

[BennyLaRue]

Problem Solved: You shouldn't feel compelled to build a house just because some trees are there. By that same token, I'd just keep walking down the path.

Living statues are creepy, imo.

[OngBonga]

I don't think I have solved it. I have a logic fail.

Let's assume after the first question we get "Uu".

We know 3rd isn't random. So we ask him if he's truth. He'll say yes. We now know what yes means. We ask if he's random. If he says yes, we know he's false, if he says no, we know he's truth. We have determined what yes and no mean, we know who 3rd is, but we don't know who 1st and 2nd are, and we've run out of questions. I need one more question. Since I know the identity of 3rd, I can ask him if 1st is random, and with his answer I now have all the info I need.

I think the first question is correct, and then we probably have to ask a similar question to the one we know isn't random.

[philly and the phanatics]

how do you know which one isn't random though...whether they answer ww or uu its going to change which one isnt random but we do not know which unless we know which is yes and which is no

[boost]

So, this is giving me a brain cramp..

If it is possible for us to ask 1 a question about 2 that determines 3 is not random, wouldn't it also be possible to ask 2 the same question about 3 to determine 1 is not random, and 3 the same question about 1 to determine 2 is not random? Yet we know one of them is random, so it seems that there is a flaw in such a question. Essentially by asking it of one statue about another particular statue you are picking which is not random... but by using this method, you could use up all three of your questions and come to the conclusion that none of them are random...

[OngBonga]

@ philly

The first question... If I were to ask "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

The answer we get, Uu or Ww, tells us which one out of 2nd and 3rd isn't random. That is all it tells us.

If 1st is truth, and random is indeed 2nd, then truth would answer "yes" if Uu means yes, and "no" if Uu means no. Either way, his answer is Uu if random is 2nd, and Ww if is random is 3rd.

If 1st is false, and random is 2nd, then false would answer the question "yes" if Uu means yes, and "no" if Uu means no. Either way, his answer is also Uu if random is 2nd, and Ww if random is 3rd.

If random is 1st, then he's not 2nd or 3rd, regardless of the answer he gives us.

So, if we get Uu, then we know 3rd cannot be random (because truth said 2nd is random, or false said 2nd isn't random, or random is 1st),
and if we get Ww, we know 2nd can't be random (because truth said 2nd isn't random, or false said 2nd is, or random is 1st).
We then talk to him.

I'll devote more time to this later this evening if no-one has cracked it. I'm really not far away, but every time I think about it my head starts to melt.

[boost]

if we can determine who is not random with our first question, lets say we find that C is not random, then we can ask C "is A truth?" then ask C "is B truth?" His answer will either be "Ww, Ww" or "Ww, Uu" or "Uu, Ww" or "Uu, Uu." When it is either "Ww, Ww" or "Uu, Uu", he is the truth. Also we have determined, depending on which he uses, the translation of "No." Now we can solve it with the language barrier with just four questions by simply asking C, "is A (or B, doesn't matter) random (or the liar, doesn't matter.) But if C answers "Ww, Uu" or "Uu, Ww" we know he is the liar and we are still in the dark with the language, so we have to ask him "is A (or B, doesn't matter) the liar?" He will always answer in the affirmative, which breaks down the language barrier... then we have to ask one more question.

Still not sure we have a question that can determine that one of them in particular is not random, and it takes me 4 or 5 questions still...

[OngBonga]

Yeah I can do it in four questions, can't do it in three yet.

I'm happy we can know either 2nd or 3rd isn't random after 1 question, but we now have two questions to ask the one we know isn't random to determine both identities and language.

If we ask the same question to all three, I guess we'll find random, and nothing else.

[boost]

@ philly

The first question... If I were to ask "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

The answer we get, Uu or Ww, tells us which one out of 2nd and 3rd isn't random. That is all it tells us.

If 1st is truth, and random is indeed 2nd, then truth would answer "yes" if Uu means yes, and "no" if Uu means no. Either way, his answer is Uu if random is 2nd, and Ww if is random is 3rd.

If 1st is false, and random is 2nd, then false would answer the question "yes" if Uu means yes, and "no" if Uu means no. Either way, his answer is also Uu if random is 2nd, and Ww if random is 3rd.

If random is 1st, then he's not 2nd or 3rd, regardless of the answer he gives us.

So, if we get Uu, then we know 3rd cannot be random (because truth said 2nd is random, or false said 2nd isn't random, or random is 1st),
and if we get Ww, we know 2nd can't be random (because truth said 2nd isn't random, or false said 2nd is, or random is 1st).
We then talk to him.

I'll devote more time to this later this evening if no-one has cracked it. I'm really not far away, but every time I think about it my head starts to melt.

I still can't see how you are determining that C (can we please use alphabetical representations of the statues? We are numbering the questions, so numerical representations of the statues makes things harder to follow than they should be) cannot be random.

If A says "Ww" he could be:

-random himself
-the liar saying "yes, B is random (read, B is not random, meaning C is random)"
-the liar saying "no, B is not random (read, B is random)"
-truth saying, "yes, B is random"
-truth saying, "no, B is not random (meaning C is random)"

If A says "Uu" he could himself be random,

-random himself
-the liar saying "yes, B is random (read, B is not random, meaning C is random)"
-the liar saying "no, B is not random (read, B is random)"
-truth saying, "yes, B is random"
-truth saying, "no, B is not random (meaning C is random)"

[boost]

Yeah I can do it in four questions, can't do it in three yet.

I'm happy we can know either 2nd or 3rd isn't random after 1 question, but we now have two questions to ask the one we know isn't random to determine both identities and language.

If we ask the same question to all three, I guess we'll find random, and nothing else.

No, we won't find anything, there is a flaw in your logic, if we use your method of evaluating the answer to your question, and ask it of all three, we determine that no one is random.

[OngBonga]

I think you're missing the point of the question.

Question A (giggles)... If I were to ask "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

If we're speaking to random, then 2nd and 3rd are both not random. That's the easy bit.

Now onto truth, where it's still fairly simple...

If we're speaking to truth...
If 2nd is random, and Uu is yes, then truth answers the question Uu. (yes, he would indeed say yes)
If 2nd is random, and Uu is no, then truth answers the question Uu. (no, I would not say no)
If 3rd is random, and Uu is yes, then truth answers the question Ww. (no, I would not say yes)
If 3rd is random, and Uu is no, then truth answers the question Ww. (yes, I would indeed say no)

Now the bit where my head melts...

If we're talking to false...
If 2nd is random, and Uu is yes, false would answer the question Uu. (yes, I would answer yes)
If 2nd is random, and Uu is no, false would answer the question Uu. (no, I would not answer no)
If 3rd is random, and Uu is yes, false would answer the question Ww. (no, I would not answer yes)
If 3rd is random, and Uu is no, false would answer the question Ww. (yes, I would answer no)

So, if 2nd is random, both truth and false would answer the question Uu, and if 3rd is random, both truth and false would answer the question Ww.

Of course, since 1st can be random himself, we haven't found random, we've just eliminated one of 2nd or 3rd.

I'm gonna stop trying to explain this first question, because I'm pretty sure it's logically solid, and it's distracting me from finding the next question.

[boost]

Come on man, we are all trying to figure this out, there's no reason to be a dick and make this harder than it has to be. Statue A, B, and C and question 1, 2, and 3 make the most sense and I believe it has been the trend. I mean, if you're gonna troll, then w/e.. trolls gonna troll I guess...

Also, I now see the point of your question, this is pretty sick, mad props, etc. Also despite you insistence on using numerical labelings, I do appreciate you breaking it down into bullet points instead of one big paragraph... much easier to follow the flow.

[OngBonga]

Man, if you're having trouble with letters vs numbers, then perhaps logic puzzles are not for you. I'm not being a dick or a troll, I'm being selfish. I've been working on this on and off for nearly a day, and my mind is now trained on 1st, 2nd and 3rd for the statues. You can take some of the blame for that, your first post in this thread refers to them by numbers, you helped get me along that way of thinking. I really don't think it matters. I'm having no trouble reading other people's posts. It's a non-issue.

I'm nearly there. I know how to figure out who's who, I just need to figure out the language.

[boost]

Man, if you're having trouble with letters vs numbers, then perhaps logic puzzles are not for you. I'm not being a dick or a troll, I'm being selfish.

Perhaps they aren't for you...

I've been working on this on and off for nearly a day, and my mind is now trained on 1st, 2nd and 3rd for the statues. You can take some of the blame for that, your first post in this thread refers to them by numbers, you helped get me along that way of thinking. I really don't think it matters. I'm having no trouble reading other people's posts. It's a non-issue.

I'm nearly there. I know how to figure out who's who, I just need to figure out the language.

Fair enough. I didn't realize I started the number trend, so I'll stop being a nit about the labeling.

[OngBonga]

Not wasting another night on this. I can't figure the language thing out.

I got this so far...

Q1... To 1st statue...
If I were to ask you "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

See above posts for explanation how this determines which of either 2nd or 3rd is not random.

Q2... To one we know isn't random...
If I were to ask you "Are you truth", would you say Uu?

Very briefly, if the answer is Uu, we're talking to truth. If the answer is Ww, we're talking to false. The logic works the same as the first question.

Q3... To same statue as 2nd question (who we now know is truth or false, depending on his last answer)...
If I were to ask you "Is 1st random", would you say Uu?

If truth said Uu, then 1st is random.
If truth said Ww, then 1st is false.

If false said Uu, then 1st is random.
If false said Ww, then 1st is truth.

That's their roles determined, but I'm lost with the language.

Again, I can nail it with one more question, but the info I'm after might already be hidden in this sticky pile of molten logic.

[boost]

Can we not figure out the language from the info gathered in your three questions? I'm feeling lazy now as I just cooked dinner and cleaned up, but I think we can?

[TLR]

I have not read thru the answers/guesses, so sorry if this has been asked before

Rilla - I assume the only answer is yes/no in alien tongue, what is the answer of the truth or false statue to a question they do not the answer for
For example if I ask the truth (or false) statue the following question: What will Random status answer me if I ask him if 2+2=4 ? what will be the truth/false answer ?

[celtic123]

What will Random status answer me if I ask him if 2+2=4 ? what will be the truth/false answer ?

Random will answer sometimes Ww , other times Uu. chaotically random.
Truth will nod , false will shake head (if only)

I think the question is something like .

Point at statue 1.

"statue number 1 , If I asked statues 2 and 3 am I pointing at you will they both answer Ww ?"

This puts statue truth in a pickle. Then my brain fuzzes over.

Edit : im assuming they know each others identities.

[kevster]

Hard to believe that people have not heard this or the classic 'heaven and hell' riddle before.

[OngBonga]

Can we not figure out the language from the info gathered in your three questions? I'm feeling lazy now as I just cooked dinner and cleaned up, but I think we can?

I think we can, but it hurts my head every time I sit down with a ciggie and try to figure it out.

[TLR]

I think we can, but it hurts my head every time I sit down with a ciggie and try to figure it out.

I assume so, based on number of answers, I think the trick is to ask the questions in such a way that you know what answers to expect, for example if you ask true guy you get Y,Y,N, and if ask false guy you get Y,N,Y, so you know that whatever answer you got twice is yes

[OngBonga]

Why hasn't anyone figured this out for me yet?

[philly and the phanatics]

i can only assume its the same reason we are not playing a game of WW yet =(

[a500lbgorilla]

I'll post the answer if you guys want it but the sense that someone can get there based on what's in this thread already is palpable.

There are 3 different sorts of answers I've heard about and this thread has hit on two of them.

One is very similar to how OB et al have been tackling it.

And another is down the path TLR and celtic were taking. i.e. you ask a statue a question which could have an answer of Uu, Ww, or his head explodes.

[OngBonga]

I'll have one more go at working out the language after my session. I'm sure the info is there, I just can't see the woods for the trees.

[BennyLaRue]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. No one said anything about heads exploding. Now I'm interested.

[OngBonga]

I'm starting to think I have a question wrong. Problem I have is if we get the answers...

Uu Uu Uu

then we could have a yes yes yes or a no no no, there is no contradiction in either that I can see.

I'm giving up, I'm happy for 'rilla to post an answer.

[Jack Sawyer]

7 Questions at most: you should Ask two of the three statues the same question at least twice, and for security 3 times. And then the final clincher question.

I guess you can do it in 5 if Random really switches between True/False every other chance it gets, but if Random has a streak you're fucked. The problem of Random is as follows: the chance random gives the same answer 3 times, therefore masquerading as eithet truth or falsehood is 1/8; small enough to take a chance (get it?) with it.

Ask the left most statue a question whose answer you know. Is 2+2 4?
Answer Uu/Ww
Ask the statue again: Is 2+2 4?
Answer UU/Ww. If the answer is twice the same, it's either a lie or the truth. It could be random 1 in 4 times though, which is why we could go for the insurance of asking it a third time.
Is 2+2 4?
Answer Uu/Ww. If it is the same, then we can safely assume it's either the truth or a lie. If the answers the first statue gives vary at any point, then you know that it is the Random statue, and now you have to ask the other statues to determine if Ww/Uu is truth or false.
On to the next statue. Is 2+2 4?
Answer Uu/Ww.
And again. Is 2+2 4?
Answer Uu/Ww.

This statue has to have at least one answer different from the previous statue. If all it's answers are different from the previous statue, then by POE you know which one is random. If at least one is different with others the same, then you know this is the random statue. Whichever it chooses, you should be now be easily able to determine what is "True" and What is "False". Next, you ask The third one is determined by process of elimination.

The 7th (or 5th, if you're a maverick and you fuck safety up its ass) is: Are you speaking the truth?
Answer Uu/Ww.

Again, by POE we can then determine which is which. By now you should already know which is the truth answer and which is the false answer. You should have been able to discern the Random statue as well. The answer of this final question is checkmate.
I assume that the statue can understand english and understan elemental math as well.

[celtic123]

Assume Truth, Falsehood, and Randomness statues standing left to right.

point at the first statue (L.H.S.) and ask "If I asked the middle statue , 'am I pointing a you' , how would he answer ? ( i put you in bold to make it clearer)

Truth would say "No" (WW or Uu)

point at the first statue and say "If I asked the right statue , 'am I pointing a you' , how would he answer ?

Truth would not be able to answer , so we now know the RHS statue is random.

The same Question works is Truth and false were switched.

Edit ; (about 5 times i think)

now randomize the statues

Random , truth , false

1) point at the first statue (L.H.S.) and say "If I asked the middle statue , 'am I pointing a you' , how would he answer ?

2)point at the first statue and say "If I asked the right statue , 'am I pointing a you' , how would he answer ?

he could answer confidently both times.

So random is easy to find.

Now im going to spend time thinking about truth / false.

[celtic123]

You may ask one specific living statue more than one question which means you could ask no questions of another living statue.

.

Im not sure if my answer breaks this rule , but here goes...

Working left to right: false , random ,truth

1) point blatantly at the first one and ask him "If I ask the middle one , 'am I pointing at him, how would he answer ?"

false couldn't answer this , so we know that middle is random in one question.

2) point blatantly at the first one and ask him "is 2+2=4 "?

he answers No (Ww)

3) point blatantly at the first one and ask him "Does Ww mean yes ?"

he would now switch his answer to Yes "Uu" cos he is a born liar

So in the order
left to right: false , random ,truth .

I can get it in 3

Through years of alcohol abuse my brain has gone fuzzy. Ill try another permutation soon
-------------------------------------------------

left to right: random ,truth ,false

1) point blatantly at the first one and ask him "If I ask the middle one , 'am I pointing at him, how would he answer ?"
2) point blatantly at the first one and ask him "If I ask the RHS one , 'am I pointing at him, how would he answer ?"

If he answers both times , that makes him random.

3) point blatantly at the middle one and ask him "is 2+2=4 "?

he answers Yes (Ww)

4) point blatantly at the middle one and ask him "Does Ww mean yes ?"

he would NOT switch his answer .

So left to right: random ,truth ,false

I can get it in 4

I think this thread now needs locking , bring on the green boxes.

[OngBonga]

7 questions? I have it in four (roles and language), and I'm totally disregarding anything random says to me. There is a one in three chance I spoke to him first, but his answer is irrelevant. Once I've spoken to 1st, I'm moving on to someone I know isn't random. Two more questions, and I know who's who. For the fourth question, I simply ask either truth or false "Are you truth?" and he will answer "Yes". I can't do this in three, but I certainly don't need 7 questions.

[celtic123]

7 questions? I have it in four (roles and language), and I'm totally disregarding anything random says to me. There is a one in three chance I spoke to him first, but his answer is irrelevant. Once I've spoken to 1st, I'm moving on to someone I know isn't random. Two more questions, and I know who's who. For the fourth question, I simply ask either truth or false "Are you truth?" and he will answer "Yes". I can't do this in three, but I certainly don't need 7 questions.

Ive done it in 4. And I can do it in 3 if I fluke it.

[rong]

Ong, just incorporate the final question into one or more of the others

[OngBonga]

Dan I have tried, relentlessly, but I think it's beyond my logical ability to be honest.

Assume we speak to random first (though we obv don't know it at the time)...

If I were to ask you "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

His answer is meaningless. Let's say for argument's sake he says Uu. We know 3rd can't be random.

We move onto 3rd, and ask him...

If I were to ask you "Are you truth", would you say Uu?

Let's assume he says Uu. Hooray! We found truth.

So, finally...

If I were to ask you "Is 1st random", would you say Uu?

Again, he says Uu. 1st is random, 2nd is therefore false.

But the language... random's answers means nothing. Truth either said yes/yes or no/no, and unfortunately for me, as far as I can see, both yes/yes and no/no make logical sense, and lead us to the same solution regarding their roles.

Probably if we hit false or truth first, then we should be able to use his answer, I haven't looked into that deep enough, but I don't want to only be able to solve it if we don't speak to random first, I need a solution that accepts we can speak to random first.

Like I say, I'm probably missing the woods for the trees. I'm too busy today to spend any real time on this. If 'rilla hasn't posted an answer by midnight (UK) then I'll put another hour in, see if I can rephrase one of the questions to get a complete solution.

[celtic123]

Dan I have tried, relentlessly, but I think it's beyond my logical ability to be honest.

Assume we speak to random first (though we obv don't know it at the time)...

If I were to ask you "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

His answer is meaningless. Let's say for argument's sake he says Uu. We know 3rd can't be random.

We move onto 3rd, and ask him...

If I were to ask you "Are you truth", would you say Uu?

Let's assume he says Uu. Hooray! We found truth.

So, finally...

If I were to ask you "Is 1st random", would you say Uu?

Again, he says Uu. 1st is random, 2nd is therefore false.

But the language... random's answers means nothing. Truth either said yes/yes or no/no, and unfortunately for me, as far as I can see, both yes/yes and no/no make logical sense, and lead us to the same solution regarding their roles.

Probably if we hit false or truth first, then we should be able to use his answer, I haven't looked into that deep enough, but I don't want to only be able to solve it if we don't speak to random first, I need a solution that accepts we can speak to random first.

Like I say, I'm probably missing the woods for the trees. I'm too busy today to spend any real time on this. If 'rilla hasn't posted an answer by midnight (UK) then I'll put another hour in, see if I can rephrase one of the questions to get a complete solution.

Here are the 6 cominations of statues

a) TFR- b) TRF- c) FTR- d) FRT- e) RFT- f) RTF

Lets forget about the language barrier or now, its not important

this set of questions gives us solution.

Q1) point at the first one and ask him "If I ask the middle one , 'am I pointing at him, how would he answer ?"

here are the combination answers (!! means the statue cannot answer, and not answering blows randoms cover)

a) No b) !! c) No d) !! e) Yes/no f) Yes/no

b & d's answers identify the middle staute as being random. So the next question is

Q2) point at the first one and ask him "is 2+2=4 "?

In b) the answer wud be yes,
In d) the answer wud No

Q3) point at the first one and ask him "Does Ww mean yes ?"

in combination b) (TRF)- when the statue says "Yes" for the second time, This solves the language problem and all 3 identities.


the same logic applies to all combos ( give or take a question)

[boost]

Why are you putting "blatantly" in bold? This is really annoying me for some reason.

[celtic123]

Why are you putting "blatantly" in bold? This is really annoying me for some reason.

I did it once, then copied and pasted. Fixed.

[boost]

I did it once, then copied and pasted. Fixed.

[Ragnar4]

The most important part of the problem: To me anyway, is using the statues to identify to you, which answer is yes, and which answer is no.

IE: Approach statue 2 Would Statue 1 tell me it was raining outside right now, (when it's not) and would he use vv if it meant yes.. The wording of the question has to be just right... because you'll be able to devine the answer based on a yes, a no, or an "unable to answer" sort of response. The wording still eludes me.

[philly and the phanatics]

yea but you dont know if they are lying or not, so if they are the lying one yes could be no or w/e =(((((

[a500lbgorilla]

Dan I have tried, relentlessly, but I think it's beyond my logical ability to be honest.

Assume we speak to random first (though we obv don't know it at the time)...

If I were to ask you "Is 2nd random", would you say Uu?

His answer is meaningless. Let's say for argument's sake he says Uu. We know 3rd can't be random.

We move onto 3rd, and ask him...

If I were to ask you "Are you truth", would you say Uu?

Let's assume he says Uu. Hooray! We found truth.

So, finally...

If I were to ask you "Is 1st random", would you say Uu?

Again, he says Uu. 1st is random, 2nd is therefore false.

But the language... random's answers means nothing. Truth either said yes/yes or no/no, and unfortunately for me, as far as I can see, both yes/yes and no/no make logical sense, and lead us to the same solution regarding their roles.

Probably if we hit false or truth first, then we should be able to use his answer, I haven't looked into that deep enough, but I don't want to only be able to solve it if we don't speak to random first, I need a solution that accepts we can speak to random first.

Like I say, I'm probably missing the woods for the trees. I'm too busy today to spend any real time on this. If 'rilla hasn't posted an answer by midnight (UK) then I'll put another hour in, see if I can rephrase one of the questions to get a complete solution.

This is the answer. The true meaning of 'Uu' and 'Ww' are immaterial to the problem since it only asks you to identify the statues.

I didn't realize it last time I was in this thread, I just recognized your questions were so similar to the solution and you said you were having troubles, I didn't actually stop to check that your troubles didn't actually exist. I thought, "that just looks so much like the solution..."

There is the exploding head solution which is discussed in this link in the Appendix A, and defensed in the body of the paper (with some other gobbledygook).

In Defense of the Two Question Solution to the Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever (Brian Rabern) - Academia.edu

The problem's true name is "The Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever," but I changed some details so it wouldn't be too easy to google around for an answer like I did.

[OngBonga]

YEAH!!!!! My time wasn't wasted! I guess now I know why I couldn't figure out their language in the three questions. Good riddle indeed.