Gun Debate (Lukie wants the kingest of nats to chime in)

[flomo]

I'm viewing it more along the lines of, wondering why guns go up in value when cars don't go up in value. The instance you use a car it depreciates some massive %, whereas the instant you use a gun, it doesn't.

I suppose in this case, its due to the high quality maintenance.

cars suck

[Penneywize]

Yeahh, so inb4 everyone calls me overly sheltered or 'omg you must be blind' etc etc, but in 27 years living in this country, I've never seen a firearm in the hands of someone who shouldn't have one. I've never heard a pistol go off any of the countless times I've walked the streets of my city in the wee hours of the morning, even in the shadier parts of town. I've never had a gun pulled on me, or heard of this happening to anyone I know. I don't even hear of drive-bys or excessive gang violence or even shootings of any kind with any sort of regularity. And I live in a city of 3.5 million.

Some dude in the other thread wrote about having a 'daily carry'. This sickens me. I wouldn't want to live anywhere where I was required to carry a weapon for my own safety. I think this to be the height of insanity.

Tell me that the novelty of being able to collect firearms and go to the firing range a few times a year is worth the inevitable cost to society that comes with the legalization of carrying concealed weapons. I suppose the type of society I've outlined above just ain't worth this supposed 'freedom' you'd be giving up, huh.

And before anyone calls me a pacifist, I should probably point out that in my teenage years, I spent a great deal of time honing my skills as part of the shooting team in my army cadet unit. I even earned the first-class shot distinction. Generally we used old Lee Enfield rifles, which were heavy as shit esp. considering they were pretty oversized in the hands of a 14-year-old. These last saw service in WW2. I'd probably really be able to fuck shit up with a more modern weapon.

[wufwugy]

Tell me that the novelty of being able to collect firearms and go to the firing range a few times a year is worth the inevitable cost to society that comes with the legalization of carrying concealed weapons. I suppose the type of society I've outlined above just ain't worth this supposed 'freedom' you'd be giving up, huh.

It's a popular false dichotomy. Things like firearm ownership and conceal carry are not a problem. The problems are the legality of unqualified and undocumented sale, purchase, and possession of firearms

The gun debate is never about the real issue.

[DropTheBanana]

I don't carry to be flashy or try to flex my nuts like I'm Dirty Harry. I'd carry something bigger than a .25 if I wanted to do that. In fact, most people I interact with during the course of a day have no idea I'm carrying. I keep them on a need to know basis.

I never owned or realistically considered buying a gun until I was robbed at gunpoint in my own house. I obv hope the day never comes where I have to point one at a human, but I wouldn't hesitate if my family, household, or my person are ever threatened in that manner again.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me since I figure debating things like gun issues is like fighting a brick wall (for either side you're debating) and I don't think people who are against it are pussies or any less of a person in my eyes, just someone with a different opinion and view.

All my guns are bought from dealers and all are registered with the Sheriff's Dept. I will agree that private sales of guns is pretty ridiculous and slack. I haven't looked at the statistics but I'll go out on a limb and say that a huge chunk of guns used for criminal activities are bought through a private seller. That's where the biggest issue is imo.

[boost]

I don't carry to be flashy or try to flex my nuts like I'm Dirty Harry. I'd carry something bigger than a .25 if I wanted to do that. In fact, most people I interact with during the course of a day have no idea I'm carrying. I keep them on a need to know basis.

I never owned or realistically considered buying a gun until I was robbed at gunpoint in my own house. I obv hope the day never comes where I have to point one at a human, but I wouldn't hesitate if my family, household, or my person are ever threatened in that manner again.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me since I figure debating things like gun issues is like fighting a brick wall (for either side you're debating) and I don't think people who are against it are pussies or any less of a person in my eyes, just someone with a different opinion and view.

All my guns are bought from dealers and all are registered with the Sheriff's Dept. I will agree that private sales of guns is pretty ridiculous and slack. I haven't looked at the statistics but I'll go out on a limb and say that a huge chunk of guns used for criminal activities are bought through a private seller. That's where the biggest issue is imo.

What I always worry about with the home defense line of thinking is that someone will end up dead. And that someone could just as likely be you if both parties are armed. It seems if you get robbed at gun point the assailant is typically not looking to shoot you, just to scare you into handing your shit over. But if you are armed it escalates the situation. Also it creates the scenario where the intruder successfully gains entry and catches you trying to get to the gun. If you did not have the gun, you would just be passive and all you lose is a bit of ego and some material goods. But I know that if I had a gun and was in that situation, someone is getting fucking shot... I'm not gonna tell the guy to "FREEZE!", I'm fucking shooting him. And I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that

p.s. For home defense I'd want a larger caliber.. hell for a ccw I'd want a large caliber. If I get into a situation where I feel the use of a gun is warranted, I do not want the other guy to be hurt, I want him dead.

[DropTheBanana]

p.s. For home defense I'd want a larger caliber.. hell for a ccw I'd want a large caliber. If I get into a situation where I feel the use of a gun is warranted, I do not want the other guy to be hurt, I want him dead.

I can shoot the .25 with ~1-2" spread at 25 yds and the .357 is roughly triple the spread size for me. That's in optimal conditions.

Like I said, I really hope it never comes down to it, but if need be I'd take accuracy over the ability to put a carrot sized hole in someone.

Bigger guns are fun to shoot, but hell even a .22 will more than likely stop someone from pursuing their original intentions.

[Penneywize]

It's a popular false dichotomy. Things like firearm ownership and conceal carry are not a problem. The problems are the legality of unqualified and undocumented sale, purchase, and possession of firearms

The gun debate is never about the real issue.

Uh ok there wuf. I guess there's no correlation between lax gun ownership + concealed weapon laws and firearm-related murder rates.

I really have no idea what you're getting at, to be honest. Are you trying to say that if there weren't "unqualified and undocumented sale, purchase, and possession of firearms" that your country's murder rates would be on par with other 1st world nations? Seeing as how every other country has this problem as well, I don't see the logic in what you're saying. The one thing that separates the united states from other countries in this regard (ignoring cultural aspects, etc) is legislation on concealed weapons and ownership.

DTB - I have to admit, I may be whistling a different tune if I'd been robbed at gunpoint in my own home. I really don't know how I'd react to something like that.

'rilla - I hate the fucking 'its because of our history' argument. I know we've all seen bowling for columbine, and I personally think Michael Moore is a tard, but it's fairly obvious that this whole concept doesn't make a great deal of sense. Germany has a far bloodier history than the US, yet still no ridiculous amts of firearms or firearm-related deaths. Canada fought in 1812, WWI, WWII, korea etc etc. and our rates are only a fraction of what yours are.

[a500lbgorilla]

'rilla - I hate the fucking 'its because of our history' argument. I know we've all seen bowling for columbine, and I personally think Michael Moore is a tard, but it's fairly obvious that this whole concept doesn't make a great deal of sense. Germany has a far bloodier history than the US, yet still no ridiculous amts of firearms or firearm-related deaths. Canada fought in 1812, WWI, WWII, korea etc etc. and our rates are only a fraction of what yours are.

I didn't say it was because of Canadian history or German history, I said it was because of American history. You can not like it as much as you want, but that doesn't sway how things are.

[wufwugy]

I really have no idea what you're getting at, to be honest. Are you trying to say that if there weren't "unqualified and undocumented sale, purchase, and possession of firearms" that your country's murder rates would be on par with other 1st world nations? Seeing as how every other country has this problem as well, I don't see the logic in what you're saying. The one thing that separates the united states from other countries in this regard (ignoring cultural aspects, etc) is legislation on concealed weapons and ownership.

Other first world nations don't have nearly the problem of undocumented sale of large caliber firearms as US. Criminals don't have much along the way of concealed weapons permits. Criminals and the gangs get most of their firepower from legal yet undocumented distribution that other countries don't have and from normally honest retail sources that think the government has tied up their Republican Congressperson and is trying to smash their door down going under the table